10369 réponses à ce sujet

[jackkel dragon]

I can't write a decent review to save my life. I'll mention what I liked and anything that seems off (usually setting slip-ups), but otherwise it's not that useful to the writer. And my review replies are so convoluted that I usually end up either rambling or deleting it all and just saying "thanks."

[Maria13]

Nadia73 wrote...

jackkel dragon wrote...

I can't write a decent review to save my life. I'll mention what I liked and anything that seems off (usually setting slip-ups), but otherwise it's not that useful to the writer.

no way!!  reviews are great to receive! it's like having your own cheerleading section to get you to update more often!  :lol:

getting reviews means people like the same things you do and offers perhaps even a chance at making an internet friend- what's not useful about that?

Seconded. Writing can be a very lonely pursuit. Reviews keep me going...

[KSuri]

Reviews are hard to write. I've been better about leaving them recently tho. Sometimes I'm hesitant to leave a review if I've got something negative to say. I suck at tact and I don't want to deflate anyone's spirit. I try to leave a balanced review in these instances. What I liked, found interesting, was impressed by as well as what I didn't care for and why.

I can see someone mentioning things about characters and why they seem out of character or different. I think for some it's a deal breaker, for others it might just be them mentioning it because it's out of character in that story.

I will admit that, if I've taken the time to write a long review, it's nice to hear back from the author.

[inquartata02]

KSuri wrote...
I can see someone mentioning things about characters and why they seem out of character or different. I think for some it's a deal breaker, for others it might just be them mentioning it because it's out of character in that story.

The bolded part. Consistent characterization in a story is also something folks expect, I think. And while each story tends to have their own "spin" so to speak on the canon characters, there still needs to be some core of that character that remains "them," if that makes sense. And if a canon character is doing some changing/growing, then there has to be plot/characterization that's consistent, believable, and works to make the story and change in character work.

[Mahkara]

Nadia73 wrote...

Also, if people are reviewing and stating they 'thought so and so was cold' or 'this character is out of alignment' or whatever... then why are they reading it? that's what I don't get. you can't read someone else's story and tell them what YOU think it should be- it's THEIR story and they're going to write it as they please. I ignore these people that demand things of you and your own creation. Don't like it, don't read it

I'm going to be frank.  I could say negative things about everything I read.  Everything. This means not just your stories, but most of my stories (esp. the old ones.  I'll admit that I don't catch everything on the more recent ones and should probably go back and revise), some of my favorite stories, and great classics by awesome authors.  Stories are not perfect. Ever.  It's the nature of writing.  There are going to be problems with any story. If I was only going to read perfect stuff, I'd have a reading list that was composed of nothing.

If the problems are small, as a reader you can say, "hey, I caught this little problem..." and hope the author fixes it and makes it even better.  Or you can figure, "Why bother?" and do nothing. I'd far, far prefer that reviewers do the first for me as, TBH, I want to be a better writer and write better stories, and if readers think that the story is *awesome* but just have one little quibble, I'd rather know about it and try to fix it than be like, "huh, why is no one reading my story any more...?"  (Or even just keep making the same mistake again and again.)

Also, I *deliberately* write characters who are not all hearts, flowers, and sunshine.  They're not all supposed to be sympathetic (or at least 100% sympathetic to all people at all times.)  I personally think that the mark of a strong character is that some people are going to love them, some are going to hate them.  I find it *awesome* when half my reviewers think one thing, the other half something else.  It means I'm doing a good job as a writer.   Plus, some characters are cold. Think of Loghain, Sten, Nathaniel, or Anora.  If any of these three is written as warm and cuddly, they're OOC.  The question is whether they're *too* cold, or just cold enough.  Or if their iceiness comes across as realistic and sympathetic, or obnoxious and over the top.

The challenge of writing is that you have this idea in your head, and you need to express it. But you rarely express it quite the way you want to. The advantage of readers who will actually let you know what they think is that you can figure out when you're expressing what you want, or totally failing.   I like to know when I'm failing, and would never say, "don't like, don't read". Unless, of course, it was an issue where like, for instance, the person loathed the entire premise of the story, all the characters, etc.  *shrugs*  But that's rarely the case (otherwise, why waste time reviewing?). Generally it's a case of readers who are kind enough to take their own time to share "hey, this isn't quite working for me for these reasons..."  Which is incredibly helpful to know.

[Mahkara]

KSuri wrote...

Reviews are hard to write. I've been better about leaving them recently tho. Sometimes I'm hesitant to leave a review if I've got something negative to say. I suck at tact and I don't want to deflate anyone's spirit. I try to leave a balanced review in these instances. What I liked, found interesting, was impressed by as well as what I didn't care for and why.

I can see someone mentioning things about characters and why they seem out of character or different. I think for some it's a deal breaker, for others it might just be them mentioning it because it's out of character in that story.

I will admit that, if I've taken the time to write a long review, it's nice to hear back from the author.

Reviews are very hard to write, especially ones that are thorough and insightful. It's hard to read a story and go "this is what I liked, this is what I hated".  And, yeah, I'll agree that if I go to that effort and write something really complex (and I'll admit that most of the time I just write, "I really liked X, great story!") and don't hear back (or just get a quick "thanks"), I'm unlikely to do it again unless I know the writer. *shrugs* 

Plus, some writers really do respond to concrit with "OMG, how *dare* you tell me that my story is not perfect?  dl; dr" followed by personal insults. It makes it really, really hard to offer concrit, so I rarely do it unless asked - I mean, it's not like I have to share my opinion.  It's really, really easier to not say anything.  Which I do find sad, as I personally like concrit (and honestly think that all authors would benefit from it).

I do agree with the differences between characters and characters in that story.  I beta for quite a few people who use the same characters but often very differently.  A lot of good editing is going with the author's ideas, but in trying to make them better. Which does mean accepting that their views differ...but also involves finding constructive ways to improve the story.

[KSuri]

Mahkara wrote...

Reviews are very hard to write, especially ones that are thorough and insightful. It's hard to read a story and go "this is what I liked, this is what I hated".  And, yeah, I'll agree that if I go to that effort and write something really complex (and I'll admit that most of the time I just write, "I really liked X, great story!") and don't hear back (or just get a quick "thanks"), I'm unlikely to do it again unless I know the writer. *shrugs* 

Plus, some writers really do respond to concrit with "OMG, how *dare* you tell me that my story is not perfect?  dl; dr" followed by personal insults. It makes it really, really hard to offer concrit, so I rarely do it unless asked - I mean, it's not like I have to share my opinion.  It's really, really easier to not say anything.  Which I do find sad, as I personally like concrit (and honestly think that all authors would benefit from it).

I do agree with the differences between characters and characters in that story.  I beta for quite a few people who use the same characters but often very differently.  A lot of good editing is going with the author's ideas, but in trying to make them better. Which does mean accepting that their views differ...but also involves finding constructive ways to improve the story.

I know when i'm reading a story I will generally go into it with an open mind. It's nice to see familiar characters acting in a familiar way but isn't always necessary. Many times I like to see an author's take on a familiar character and what they do with them. As long as that character is acting consistantly within that story I'm alllllll good. The only exceptions to this happen if we're talking about Sten. Sten as cute and cuddly just doesn't work for me and i'll steer clear of those.

I'm more interested in the story. Is the story good? Is it engaging? Am I intersted in where it's going?

Luckily, I haven't had anyone come back and bite my head off for leaving a less than favorable review...yet. Tho that might change in the near future.

[SheilaD67]

Nadia73 wrote...

my reviewers offer no questions, they simply wonder what is going to happen next and discuss fave parts of the chapter they review. I can't answer that as it would give the rest of the story away so all I can do is thank them. I have PMd with several of my reviewers but most just want to communicate with their reviews it seems.

Also, if people are reviewing and stating they 'thought so and so was cold' or 'this character is out of alignment' or whatever... then why are they reading it? that's what I don't get. you can't read someone else's story and tell them what YOU think it should be- it's THEIR story and they're going to write it as they please. I ignore these people that demand things of you and your own creation. Don't like it, don't read it

I've had reviewers that barely write a line, I've had reviewers that give me a thoughtful, concise review, pointing out what they liked and didn't like about the story.  Many of us PM back and forth, encouraging each other in our own writing, and help get through mental blocks.  Most of my regular reviewers are other authors that I have discussed story ideas and directions with, without giving away the plot.  It's helpful and gives a good sense of community.  I enjoy and value each and every review, although I prefer more than an 'I liked it' or 'I hated it' without any qualifier.

I do disagree with your second paragraph:  If you're significantly changing a canon character's persona, but have not offered up a reason within the plot/storyline for that change, they will question it (Heck!  I've questioned it!).  However, if you've set up the story line in such a way that it's obvious why such and such is happening, or at the very least has the reader realizing that something is up, then I usually point that out to the reviewer, and they usually PM back with a 'oops!  Missed that part'.  It's when a reviewer tells me that the PC character is acting out of character that I have issue with - after all, how many of us have played through numerous times to get the different personality quarks and options so that there is no 'canon' PC character? 

But, I would never, ever, suggest to anyone that if they don't like it, don't read it.  I'd suggest that perhaps they open their minds a bit more to a differing perspective.  After all, that's how ideas grow, policies change, minds develope, etc.  It's then up to them whether to continue to read or not.

[SheilaD67]

jackkel dragon wrote...

I can't write a decent review to save my life. I'll mention what I liked and anything that seems off (usually setting slip-ups), but otherwise it's not that useful to the writer. And my review replies are so convoluted that I usually end up either rambling or deleting it all and just saying "thanks."

I admit it, reviews can be difficult.  Esp. if you want to be encouraging without the normal fluff 'I loved it!'.  But, I've found the best reviews are those that the reviewers really meant - even if they ramble a bit.  That means that the story has your thinking, and your mind is going in many different directions.  It really is encouraging.

I've been having a major mental block with all of my stories this week.  Maybe if I go back and re-read the reviews, it'll help me out some...

[mousestalker]

As far as reviews go, it's a pity FF.net doesn't have a rating system in place. I'd ratehr 1-5 stars like here, but even a thumbs up/thumbs down a la Youtube would be nice.

[Glorfindel709]

OT but/



Do any of you find yourself planning a story after the story you are currently *trying* to write? I dont even have the first chapter of my first story done yet, and I already have ideas for a "Warden traveling to run from his actions at the end of the Blight/(possibly hunt down Morrigan)/ a trip to Seheron, Antiva, Orlais, Tevinter etc etc before the Awakening events begin" story. >.< It's driving me mad!

[Sarah1281]

But I'll admit that (as a reviewer), I'm sort of disinclined to leave multiple long reviews for someone who don't respond or replys with a "thanks" as the long reviews take a *lot* of time to compose.

Me, too. Of course, I'm totally a hypocrite on that front because I rarely respond to reviews unless I get a question or a negative signed one. Reviews are really important to me so I really should but, well...I don't ever know what to say to them. 'Thanks for the review' seems too short and kind of pointless to send.



But then I get people leaving reviews commenting on how they think I'll never read their reviews. That they review anyway is great, though.

[Raonar]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

OT but/

Do any of you find yourself planning a story after the story you are currently *trying* to write? I dont even have the first chapter of my first story done yet, and I already have ideas for a "Warden traveling to run from his actions at the end of the Blight/(possibly hunt down Morrigan)/ a trip to Seheron, Antiva, Orlais, Tevinter etc etc before the Awakening events begin" story. >.< It's driving me mad!

I actually do have some idea about a sequel to the stoyr I'm writing right now:D Don't know if it will ever come to pass though

[Sarah1281]

But, I would never, ever, suggest to anyone that if they don't like it, don't read it.

I've only done this twice. The first time someone had chronically complained about all the decisions my protagonist made, the fact that she was naive in their eyes, never once said anything positive about the story...it went on and on. Eventually, it got to a point where I wondered why they were reading it since they hated it so much and felt the need to praise another story by telling that author how refreshing it was to read a more 'realistic' story after wanting to strangle my character. Since them reading was making both of us miserable, I suggested that they stop and they replied that they had already decided to do just that.

The second time was just yesterday where I got a review saying that the last two chapters seemed 'forced', tried to talk me into changing the story from a humor one into a tragedy (yes, I was aware that you could change genres but I don't like it when people try to tell me to write a completely different story then the one I want to), mentioned that they hadn't been able to read it without rolling their eyes, and said that they liked the last few lines but thought it might be because they were glad that it was over. Nothing constructive about that review either and since they clearly didn't even like the story, I suggested they think about whether they really wanted to follow a story they had to force themselves to read.

It's not like I take any criticism at all as a sign that people should stop reading, just reviews that make it clear that the reviewer in question really hates what they're reading.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 18 février 2011 - 10:34 .

[Mahkara]

KSuri wrote...

Many times I like to see an author's take on a familiar character and what they do with them.

Luckily, I haven't had anyone come back and bite my head off for leaving a less than favorable review...yet. Tho that might change in the near future.

Yeah, I agree 100% with the first part. I love seeing how other people handle characters.  It's interesting.  As lot as it's not either character bashing or way OOC, I enjoy seeing characters a bit differently from how I write them.  TBH, even in my own stories, the characters aren't constant.  It just works better for one plot or another to have them different, so I tweak them.  Sometimes fairly substantially.

I've gotten some really nasty responses for concrit.  It does tend to make me very hesitant to leave it as it's time consuming, and having someone hurl personal insults at you for doing something like saying, "the first paragraph is a bit confusing as you change POV a lot..." makes me pretty disinclined to say much more.

[Mahkara]

Sarah1281 wrote...

But, I would never, ever, suggest to anyone that if they don't like it, don't read it.

I've only done this twice. The first time someone had chronically complained about all the decisions my protagonist made, the fact that she was naive in their eyes, never once said anything positive about the story...it went on and on. Eventually, it got to a point where I wondered why they were reading it since they hated it so much and felt the need to praise another story by telling that author how refreshing it was to read a more 'realistic' story after wanting to strangle my character. Since them reading was making both of us miserable, I suggested that they stop and they replied that they had already decided to do just that.

The second time was just yesterday where I got a review saying that the last two chapters seemed 'forced', tried to talk me into changing the story from a humor one into a tragedy (yes, I was aware that you could change genres but I don't like it when people try to tell me to write a completely different story then the one I want to), mentioned that they hadn't been able to read it without rolling their eyes, and said that they liked the last few lines but thought it might be because they were glad that it was over. Nothing constructive about that review either and since they clearing didn't even like the story, I suggested they think about whether they really wanted to follow a story they had to force themselves to read.

It's not like I take any criticism at all as a sign that people should stop reading, just reviews that make it clear that the reviewer in question really hates what they're reading.

Yeah, there are certain cases where I'm like "Why are you reading this if you hate it so much!"

But, so far, I've been lucky enough to avoid those.  I mostly just get people who are annoyed with a plot direction I took or whatever.  Which is fine, and generally they're pretty clear about why they feel the way they do, which makes the comments really interesting.  But, yeah, I really don't get people who go on and on complaining about how they hate the protragonist, hate the story, hate every last thing about it...that really is one of those times you have to wonder why they don't just stop reading and find something better suited to their tastes.

[Merilsell]

Mahkara wrote...

Also, I *deliberately* write characters who are not all hearts, flowers, and sunshine.  They're not all supposed to be sympathetic (or at least 100% sympathetic to all people at all times.)  I personally think that the mark of a strong character is that some people are going to love them, some are going to hate them.  I find it *awesome* when half my reviewers think one thing, the other half something else.  It means I'm doing a good job as a writer.   Plus, some characters are cold. Think of Loghain, Sten, Nathaniel, or Anora.  If any of these three is written as warm and cuddly, they're OOC.  The question is whether they're *too* cold, or just cold enough.  Or if their iceiness comes across as realistic and sympathetic, or obnoxious and over the top.

Same here.

I freely admit that my character Lenya is a bitter b*tchy brat in the beginning of my story and this is done deliberately by me. It makes it hard for some people to get into the story or feeling sympathetic for her, but hey life isn't flowers and rainbows and Lenya is no cuddly, smiling Dalish Warden who is saving kittens from trees. Not at all. She is however changing as the story progress in her own way, but for peeps reading my story it is rather to hate her or to like her quirks and sometimes very own behavior. Between love and hate there is not much possible for that character and well... I love that fact.

I couldn't imagine to write her in any other way to make her more appealling to the people hating her, which would mean to betray her character. And this is big one no- go for me as a writer.  I have a certain, very formed picture of my main character in my head and I'm not willing to change that for the few people that hate the way she is to make her more appealing to them. No. Just. No.

The rest however is negotiable. I love to hear from people if things have worked out in a chapter, how I have planned them, if I have tucked the right emotional strings with it etc.
...Or if not the reasons why it sucked, simply to make it better next time.

[DreGregoire]

Hmmm they wrote a song about a person like that right? LMAO

Or rather somebody wrote a song about a person like that, but I think they were talking about themselves *giggles*

Modifié par DreGregoire, 19 février 2011 - 12:21 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Mahkara wrote...

Also, I *deliberately* write characters who are not all hearts, flowers, and sunshine.  They're not all supposed to be sympathetic (or at least 100% sympathetic to all people at all times.)  I personally think that the mark of a strong character is that some people are going to love them, some are going to hate them.

While such characters are indeed fun to read about and write, and I appreciate the skill that goes into them, I'm certainly not going to block myself from writing characters who are generally 'nice' just because people might find them less interesting. If a story is full of characters a reader either has to love or hate, it'd feel as unnatural as a story where everyone is always sympathetic.

You get all sorts in life. So write all sorts.

[inquartata02]

 

Lenya is no cuddly, smiling Dalish Warden who is saving kittens from trees

She won't save kittens!?  

[DreGregoire]

inquartata02 wrote...

 

Lenya is no cuddly, smiling Dalish Warden who is saving kittens from trees

She won't save kittens!?  

Yeah, that makes me so sad to hear.

Edit: Of course the kitten's she's probably seen have a huge mother twice the size of an elf. hahah

Modifié par DreGregoire, 19 février 2011 - 02:13 .

[SheilaD67]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

OT but/

Do any of you find yourself planning a story after the story you are currently *trying* to write? I dont even have the first chapter of my first story done yet, and I already have ideas for a "Warden traveling to run from his actions at the end of the Blight/(possibly hunt down Morrigan)/ a trip to Seheron, Antiva, Orlais, Tevinter etc etc before the Awakening events begin" story. >.< It's driving me mad!

Phwt!  All the friggin' time!  How do you think I went from one story to 7 in a matter of six months?  I used to think that authors who had more than one story going were nuts.  Well, now I know they are! 

[SheilaD67]

Merilsell wrote...

Mahkara wrote...

Also, I *deliberately* write characters who are not all hearts, flowers, and sunshine.  They're not all supposed to be sympathetic (or at least 100% sympathetic to all people at all times.)  I personally think that the mark of a strong character is that some people are going to love them, some are going to hate them.  I find it *awesome* when half my reviewers think one thing, the other half something else.  It means I'm doing a good job as a writer.   Plus, some characters are cold. Think of Loghain, Sten, Nathaniel, or Anora.  If any of these three is written as warm and cuddly, they're OOC.  The question is whether they're *too* cold, or just cold enough.  Or if their iceiness comes across as realistic and sympathetic, or obnoxious and over the top.

Same here.

I freely admit that my character Lenya is a bitter b*tchy brat in the beginning of my story and this is done deliberately by me. It makes it hard for some people to get into the story or feeling sympathetic for her, but hey life isn't flowers and rainbows and Lenya is no cuddly, smiling Dalish Warden who is saving kittens from trees. Not at all. She is however changing as the story progress in her own way, but for peeps reading my story it is rather to hate her or to like her quirks and sometimes very own behavior. Between love and hate there is not much possible for that character and well... I love that fact.

I couldn't imagine to write her in any other way to make her more appealling to the people hating her, which would mean to betray her character. And this is big one no- go for me as a writer.  I have a certain, very formed picture of my main character in my head and I'm not willing to change that for the few people that hate the way she is to make her more appealing to them. No. Just. No.

The rest however is negotiable. I love to hear from people if things have worked out in a chapter, how I have planned them, if I have tucked the right emotional strings with it etc.
...Or if not the reasons why it sucked, simply to make it better next time.

I like your Lenya.  How she calls Alistair 'puppy' and really, really hates kittens!  She's evolving, which is what characters should do - just like in real life.  If they are the same from beginning to end, then that's a story that never went anywhere.

My characters always have their own personalities.  I just try and set them to 'paper' and come to life.  Whenever I try to 'mold' a character into a specific way it never works.  So, if people don't like how they're written, that's too bad for them, because I'm just writing them as they come, not really creating them in any manner.