10369 réponses à ce sujet

[Elysium-Fic]

nevermind

Modifié par Elysium-Fic, 01 mars 2011 - 11:16 .

[Mahkara]

Elysium-Fic wrote...

Mahkara wrote...
What annoys me is when the Warden does the ritual so that he/she won't die, but then treats other moral dilemmas in the game as this clear black/white, where the bad guys are wrong/the good guys are *right*.  (Unless, of course, the author makes it clear that said protagonist is meant to be a rather hypocritical character.)

Which is, once again, a quite childish way of looking at things.

What you call "hypocritical" I'd call "realistically flawed."

You're attempting to measure a complex emotional dilemma using a simplistic yardstick derived from pure meta-game logic.

The amusing thing here is that if this discussion were about, say, Loghain, you'd be the first one arguing in favor of the character's subjective, emotional reasoning. You'd be claiming the wrong-headed actions of the character which derived from that flawed reasoning only strengthen the characterization and make him complex.

But in the case of the Warden its suddenly inexcusably hypocritical?

I don't think I'm understanding your question.  Could you try rephrasing it?  Near as I can tell, you're telling me that a character who judges bad characters for doing bad things, but then does them himself/herself is not hypocritical, but is in fact, a deep and well developed character.  I could agree on the second point (provided that other facets of the character were well developed.), but I'm inclined to disagree on the first.

[Glorfindel709]

The OGB is hardly as big of a risk as sentient Darkspawn.


It's a human being with an Old God soul. Chantry dogma tells us that the Old Gods were all "evil". However, that essence of Old God will be in a human body with human emotions and limitations. It's all going to depend on how that child is raised. That's why my canon warden went into the Eluvian, because at least in this manner he's going to have a hand in raising his child (and if worse comes to worse, be in a position to take responsibility and care of it if it comes to that)

Darkspawn are called a Blight for a reason - they are a sickness, a cancer that infects the heart of Thedas and poisons all that they touch. They raid the surface for women who they violate in order to reproduce. The Architect plans on turning all of the world into Darkspawn/Human hybrids to get them to live in peace together initially, and then plans to free all of the Darkspawn from The Call. The Calling is what drives them underground, to dig and search with a single minded focus for that dragon waiting to be tainted. If you remove the Calling, they'll have reason to come to the surface where they will corrupt and twist all life. This is an undeniable certainty, one that cannot be disputed or disregarded in any way, shape, or form based on the Lore.

At the very least, the OGB has hope for redemption or possible good outcomes.

[DreGregoire]

I just read somewhere that there were two months between the archdemon defeat and the coronation. Has anybody else heard that? Makes my time line a bit borked in my Hero of Ferelden story but easily fixed I've gotta figure out all this time stuff or it'll drive me nuts. LOL. Anybody know what the gestation period of the dwarves is? LOL. Although I guess Oghren and Felsi may have had some fun... ahem.. back at Lake Calenhad. LOL So that could make things a little easier for the inconsistency in when Awakenings is suppose to take place. The frusterating thing is that I feel like I should wait to play the beginning of DA2 at least until Anders gets there and I know more about the intended time line. LOL. Wouldn't do to have Anders in two places at once hehe

[Prisoner24601]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

The OGB is hardly as big of a risk as sentient Darkspawn.

Hmmm...  the thing is that it's a totally unknown quantity.  It could be as big of a risk as sentient Darkspawn.  What we do know is that by chosing to do the ritual or convince another to do it, not only is the Warden turning something with the soul (and presumably power) of an old god over to a woman with seriously dubious intent.  Don't get me wrong, I love Morrigan and think she's facinating as hell, but this is the woman who is constantly geting annoyed whenever the Warden doesn't take power that's offered, no matter what the cost might be.

It could turn out okay or it could become a disaster of blight like proportions, which makes it a reckless or selfish or ignorant decision to make.  But that said, with good characterization and good writing, it can also be a deeply compelling and sympathetic struggle to watch a character have, because taking the deal, despite the huge risk (for various reasons) is a pretty human reaction.  Selfish, reckless and/or ignorant characters can be extremely interesting to read about and even easy to relate too after all.

With sloppy characterization and writing though it can become a problem in a story, at least to me.  When I see fics that don't deal with it, or insist that it was some sort of heroic action to take, or simply just gloss over it in favor of focusing on the romance between characters, I tend to tune out.  I mean really, even in the best circumsances, if you had Alistair do the ritual, I have a hard time believing that it's not going to totally mess him up in the long run knowing that there's this kid of his out there that he doesn't get the chance to raise.  And on the large scale, there's always the uncertainty that this decision could totally come back and threaten everything that the Warden just saved.

Modifié par Prisoner24601, 01 mars 2011 - 11:44 .

[Mahkara]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

The OGB is hardly as big of a risk as sentient Darkspawn.


It's a human being with an Old God soul. Chantry dogma tells us that the Old Gods were all "evil". However, that essence of Old God will be in a human body with human emotions and limitations. It's all going to depend on how that child is raised. That's why my canon warden went into the Eluvian, because at least in this manner he's going to have a hand in raising his child (and if worse comes to worse, be in a position to take responsibility and care of it if it comes to that)

Darkspawn are called a Blight for a reason - they are a sickness, a cancer that infects the heart of Thedas and poisons all that they touch. They raid the surface for women who they violate in order to reproduce. The Architect plans on turning all of the world into Darkspawn/Human hybrids to get them to live in peace together initially, and then plans to free all of the Darkspawn from The Call. The Calling is what drives them underground, to dig and search with a single minded focus for that dragon waiting to be tainted. If you remove the Calling, they'll have reason to come to the surface where they will corrupt and twist all life. This is an undeniable certainty, one that cannot be disputed or disregarded in any way, shape, or form based on the Lore.

At the very least, the OGB has hope for redemption or possible good outcomes.

I 100% agree that the OGB has the hope for redemption (and may even be a good thing!  I think I mentioned this above, but the thread is long so I won't quote...)  But it's very unclear from what we see/hear/are told whether the OGB is good, bad, neutral, etc.  Either way, I think it's fair to say that it's a *risk*.  Whether it's greater or worse than the risk posed by the Architect, the Anvil, or any of many other things that offer a very grey choice isn't entirely clear.

Either way, ignoring the risk so that you can live/Alistair can live/Alistair will continue to like you is pretty selfish (or naive).   As such, it's not a decision that your stereotypical "good" character would make.  Can you justify it? Sure. But you can justify virtually every decision you can make in the game in some way.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Yes, the OGB is a potential risk.

No, not every writer, reader, or Warden gives a damn.

[Glorfindel709]

In other news, I've named my currently being planned Spirit Healer/Maleficar(Blood Mage) Faustus.

Hehehe for literary nerds!

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 02 mars 2011 - 03:07 .

[Mahkara]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

In other news, I've named my currently being planned Spirit Healer/Maleficar(Blood Mage) Faustus.

Hehehe for literary nerds!

That's a pretty awesome name for a blood mage, I must say.  

[Raonar]

Unwarrnted change of subject.

You know, It's really frustrating when I stumble upon stories that miss the whole point of what being a Grey Warden implies. To clarify, the author thinks the best wardens are barely capable of beating one or four darkspawn on their own... whatever that means.

Coupled with portraying certain other, very old, characters as distinctly superior to a warden in his prime, who is a dwarf AND has the extra kick from Avernus's alcemical drink... I can't help but see the text screaming bias towards that particular character.

/end rant

Modifié par Raonar, 02 mars 2011 - 06:18 .

[Glorfindel709]

Ive gotta agree with you Raonar, I can't justify the logic in that particular chapter. Even if he was an extremely well trained man, Wardens are supposed to be warriors of legend of a reason. I personally know my Mahariel Mage is embracing the "kick ass and take names" approach *shrugs*

By the way, playing Witch Hunt gave me the Lore credentials to talk about Sword and Staff combat! There's a book in the library about it... Mahariel Mage finds it, brings it to the Weaposn Instructor from the Extra-curricular activities codex entry and asks to begin training it... gets to the point where the mage can't help him any longer and turns to the Templars (while also putting stage 3 of his escape plan into effect) for aid in exchange for his own help.

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 02 mars 2011 - 07:01 .

[Raonar]

I also don't understand why some people just comment on how unrealistic battles are. I mean, there is magic that can practically bring people back from the brink of death. Realism was battered and thrown out into the dumpster the moment the word 'magic' was said. So I didn't even bother with it that much. Instead, i tried to make sure the fight scenes I write are as awesome and epic as I can manage.

EDIT

Didn't remember about the sword/staff fighting, but it's cool you did. I integrated wand use in my story though.

Modifié par Raonar, 02 mars 2011 - 07:05 .

[Glorfindel709]

Not to mention, that we as the players are involved in some pretty epic battles. Like the center of Caridans Cross where there are a few dozen darkspawn in the area plus traps and ballistas. And look at the trailers, especially Urn of Sacred Ashes, where we see Wardens fighting dozens of the creatures, flipping and spinning and ravaging the darkspawn ranks.

Battles in *FANTASY* are meant to be epic, and I applaud your efforts. I'll probably be coming to you for help on that front, I'm not very good with action sequences

~~~~

I actually have some pretty cool in battle descriptions for it, mostly involving using the sword to parry and then bringing the staff up under the locked blades to deliver a crushing blast of magic.

Word of God (David Gaider) says that a mage can cast a lightning bolt and leave a gaping hole in the chest of a man wearing heavy chainmail armor. I'm taking full advantage of that.

Instead of Wand use I'm going Sword/Staff as mostly offensive and after an unfortunate incident where his staff is cleaved in two by an Alpha, switching to using the Rod of Fire *evil grin* Pocket Flamethrower, anyone?

[DreGregoire]

Is this FanFiction Sucks thread no longer about supporting, encouraging, and helping fellow fanfiction wrtiers? I just want to know because if things have changed I'll be doing my best to avoid it in the future.

[Glorfindel709]

nevermind

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 02 mars 2011 - 08:15 .

[Raonar]

Huh?

Ah, I think Dre is referring to the discussion on the past few pages when people got severely affected by the plague known as mass misunderstanding. fear not Dre, this thread is still about encouraging creativity

On that note, why does Aonghas suddenly wear his hair back?

[Glorfindel709]

Got into his eyes during a battle?

Also, I happen to think that my heroic "gazing off into the horizon" pose for Samuel Cousland, the Hero of Ferelden, is rather good. >.> <.<

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 02 mars 2011 - 08:07 .

[DreGregoire]

<--- this is Aonghas Cousland from Awakenings and he's being influenced by braid and pony tail wearing men. I don't want to mention any names or anything, you know to protect the identity of the not so innocent. LMAO. Aside from that I'm going to go with the excuse to not elaborate on it on the basis of not wanting to write spoilers to fanfiction here. LOL. I learned that from people in the thread. heh! One last thing though, Leliana maintained hair cutting in Origins. *looks around awakenings and can't find her anywhere.*

Modifié par DreGregoire, 02 mars 2011 - 08:24 .

[ZerbanDaGreat1]

Random question - just how powerful can a templar's magic resistance be? I know there's a protection against mind-altering spells, but what about direct-damage spells? I ask because in the latest chapter Alistair took a lightning bolt from Zathrian straight on the chest and barely flinched.

[Raonar]

Depends on what armor. templars don;t have magic resistance per se AFAIR), but their armors do. I think there's a commander armor that looks templar-ish that has an ever bigger resistance. All in all, I believe one can get really close to 100% with the correct gear, but it's expensive in the game.

And to Glorf: yes, he looks good. Feeling left out, are you? I'm surprised you haven't gone to bed yet )

[DreGregoire]

ZerbanDaGreat1 wrote...

Random question - just how powerful can a templar's magic resistance be? I know there's a protection against mind-altering spells, but what about direct-damage spells? I ask because in the latest chapter Alistair took a lightning bolt from Zathrian straight on the chest and barely flinched.

You know I'm totally in awe of the templar's abilities, I'll have to do some research to answer this question. brb. LOL

[ZerbanDaGreat1]

Oh. Uh, Alistair's still in his starting splintmail. Um... Alistair got super-resistance for a second because he was really pissed at Zathrian? *awkward shrug*

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

In terms of mechanics, templars get mental resistance, which protects against any spells that require a mental resistance check of course, but I can't see anything about simple spell resistance for the class.

HOWEVER, it might depend on what you had Alistair wearing. Templar armour, for instance, bestows a pretty juicy spell resistance.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

The alternative is that Zathrien's spellpower sucks.

[Glorfindel709]

Raonar wrote...

.

And to Glorf: yes, he looks good. Feeling left out, are you? I'm surprised you haven't gone to bed yet )

Yes Raonar, I yearn and pine for your attention. Woe is me.

And I would be asleep but arguing with girlfriend + new DA playthrough sabotaged my sleep efforts. It's 4am and ive got class in 3 hours