10369 réponses à ce sujet

[DreGregoire]

LOL. You all make the templars sound like a bunch of pansies. LMAO. "Oh, I have to stop here it's safer, than an inn." "Oh it's raining let's go somewhere dry." LOL. Sorry but it just struck me funny. I don't mean any offense you have come up with good possible assumptions. I just can't help picturing a bunch of complaining templars now. LOL

[Glorfindel709]

No, but getting caught out in the rain in wet muddy ground makes travelling difficult. Not to mention possible rusting of their armor.

Oh and of course, the prevalence of sickness without a cure for the common cold

[DreGregoire]

DreGregoire wrote...

LOL. You all make the templars sound like a bunch of pansies. LMAO. "Oh, I have to stop here it's safer, than an inn." "Oh it's raining let's go somewhere dry." LOL. Sorry but it just struck me funny. I don't mean any offense you have come up with good possible assumptions. I just can't help picturing a bunch of complaining templars now. LOL

Templar one: It looks like rain.
Templar Two: We should stop somewhere.
Templar Three: We can't take an apostate to an inn.
Templar One: I hate when my armor gets rusty.
Templar Three: Hey how about Vigil's keep. I hear it's up and running again.
Templar Two: I bet they have some supplies so we can stock up on... what is it that we need?
Anders: It's raining, look lightening!

There is a mad rush for Vigil's keep with a laughing Anders ushered along with.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 04 mars 2011 - 12:43 .

[LupusYondergirl]

I highly doubt Templars who specialize in hunting down escaped mages and apostates would want to give Anders to a group that would free him from Circle and Chantry control. Especially not Templars who abused him on the way there. (he tells you how they kicked him to wake him and implied there was more). Although someone in the know might realize it's a pretty crap job, to the average person they're heroes and warriors of legend. In the mage origin Greagoir calls it a reward, after all. That would likely be the prevailing opinion.

[DreGregoire]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

I highly doubt Templars who specialize in hunting down escaped mages and apostates would want to give Anders to a group that would free him from Circle and Chantry control. Especially not Templars who abused him on the way there. (he tells you how they kicked him to wake him and implied there was more). Although someone in the know might realize it's a pretty crap job, to the average person they're heroes and warriors of legend. In the mage origin Greagoir calls it a reward, after all. That would likely be the prevailing opinion.

I sometimes wonder about the severity of that templar's anger and find myself wondering if her anger wasn't furthered by something more than Anders himself. Not knowing what makes her tick I can only make assumptions. Is it just because Anders wants to find and destroy his chain? If that were the case why the elaborate set up? Why go to all the trouble to trap one mage? The whole thing seems odd. So what I believe is there may have been some orders that came down in regards to Anders that inflamed the templar greatly and what you mentioned about joining the grey wardens being a reward only served to make my assumptions stronger.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 04 mars 2011 - 12:56 .

[LupusYondergirl]

I think you're mixing the templars in Awakening up. Ser Rylock was the one who set the trap and wanted him hanged. She had nothing to do with the templars who brought him in- she was traveling in the King's entourage and arrived long after they and all the darkspawn were dead. The templars who abused him on the road are already dead by the time you even meet Anders, you can see their bodies lying on the floor around him. Why would they "reward" someone with the Grey Wardens while also waking them with a boot to the head? The Circle in general doesn't seem exactly fond of the idea of mages outside the tower, anyways. They didn't even want them to leave temporarily for the war- much less forever as a Grey Warden.

Her assumption that he killed them, well, makes perfect sense. He has not a scratch on him and a handful of seasoned warriors end up dead? And I think he probably did, to be honest, or at the very least stood by and let them die.
That's why she wanted him dead- she thought he killed three templars (or four, I'd have to go back and check how many). And really, from her perspective that makes complete sense. They set a trap, going through all that trouble for one mage, because he was believed to be a multiple murderer.

He also never says he was captured in Amaranthine. He says a few things that would imply otherwise, actually. His response to the city was one of someone who hadn't been there before, or not in some time, and he is pretty clear that the templars and him had been traveling for multiple days. He says he was supposed to meet Namaya there, but for all we know they were in Denerim or Highever or something when they made that plan, and she went on ahead while he got captured. He never says that they were in Amaranthine together, just that they arranged to meet up there. (actually, to think of it, Denerim makes sense. That's where the phylacteries WERE stored, and the most logical route from there to the Circle would be the Pilgrim's Path to the North Road, which passes straight by Vigil's Keep).

Really, we're talking about a group that ran a teenage boy through and left him for dead. Who would kill the families of blood mages... not just the mages, but their non-mage relatives. It doesn't take much to make them want to kill mages... I think believing he had a hand in the deaths of those templars is more than enough. And the setup is a good way to catch the Wardens, or at least Anders, doing something illegal (breaking into Chantry property), so it isn't as explicit a defiance of the king/queen.

[DreGregoire]

Actually I am not mixing the templars up. My point was that she may have heard that the other templars, that were with Anders, may have had different orders, and that there is no way for us to know what their orders were because they are deceased and for that matter so are the wardens that were at the keep.

So I was just saying that if she heard there was a possibility of Anders being allowed to join the wardens that could have fueled her rage even more.

My response about Amaranthine was to another poster saying that's where they came from and I had said it didn't make sense that they would stop at Vigil's keep if they had just left Amaranthine.

Edit: I also didn't take Anders statement literally about being kicked in the head every morning, but I could have just perceived it differently:)

Modifié par DreGregoire, 04 mars 2011 - 02:19 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Did everyone really have such a hard time with Loghain? I play on Hard or Normal, I creamed loghain in 10 seconds with my Arcane Warrior and then decided t olet Alistair do it. Reloaded back to the beginning of the Landsmeet, won it, selected Alistair as my champion, and two minutes later we had the cutscene...

Normal mode. I only had a hard time with Alistair (S&S, Templar, those skills maxed, and poison on his swords because to hell with 'honour' in game mechanics...). The fight went forever.

My 2Her had better luck, especially if her War Cry knocked Loghain off his feet before he could get his off.

My rogue could kill him in under 10 seconds.

Raonar wrote...

I didn;t have any issues really. if you have a S&S warrior with vanguard active, you avoid his war cries and that's that. Or a rogue with dual-weapon/deathroot extract. Or if you MUST be honorable, duelist spec+a lot of impairment skills.

Vanguard? Am I missing a skill? :/ Can't see it...

[Glorfindel709]

Vanguard isnt a skill in Dragon Age Origins...

[DreGregoire]

I really need to focus on writing; I've been at this Awakenings/Anders intro for about three or more hours and haven't gotten very far. Of course I keep replaying the first and second cutscene with him to get in the 'mood' I keep telling myself, but I know I'm really doing it because it amuses me. LOL.

[Mahkara]

LupusYondergirl wrote...

Her assumption that he killed them, well, makes perfect sense. He has not a scratch on him and a handful of seasoned warriors end up dead? And I think he probably did, to be honest, or at the very least stood by and let them die.

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree. It's highly probable that Anders didn't kill the templars...but he sure didn't try to save them, either. And it's entirely possible that he did kill them (or summoned the abominations that killed them, either intentionally or in some sort of panic...after all, his room is the only one with abominations).

Anders really, really, really hates templars, which he makes clear any time you talk to him. Does this extend to where he'd kill them?  Maybe.  Maybe not.  It's very unclear as to what happened in that room. All we get is,"I didn't kill them, but I'm not sad that they're dead."  If I was a templar (esp. a vindictive one), I'd probably be after him, too, considering the evidence, and the general hatred of the Chantry towards apostates.

[Raonar]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Vanguard isnt a skill in Dragon Age Origins...

Umm... I thought Vanguard was that Shield mode? Ah wait, I meant Shield Wall LOL.

[Face of Evil]

DreGregoire wrote...

So I'm working on my hero of Ferelden story and am in awakenings playing the game as I write (that's my prefered method), and I was just thinking about the implications of the templars stopping at Vigil's keep--on their way to the tower-- and it suddenly came to me that maybe they stopped there for more than just a rest, perhaps they had thought to have Anders join the wardens.

I think they stopped there rather than some roadside inn because Vigil's Keep has prison cells, thick stone walls and a garrison.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

@Raonar: Ahhh. Well, yeah, Shield Wall won't let Alistair fall over, but it won't make him kill Loghain any quicker either I think it even reduces damage dealt while active. I guess in my game, Loghain simply hit harder than Alistair...

[ZerbanDaGreat1]

I have a few magic, mage and Fade-related questions.

1) How long would it take for someone to learn to control their magic? I know most mages grow up in the Tower, but is there a way to learn quicker?
2) If a mage goes to the Fade whenever they dream, does that mean a demon could come along and kill/possess them any time they sleep? Further, might there be circumstances where they would daydream/have microsleeps where they seem to slip into the Fade during the day?
3) Do all demons really look and sound the same?
4) Is it specifically stated that mages are physically incapable of shaping the Fade? I think I read it in the codex, but that's been stated to be subjective.
5) Given relative power ranges, how much stronger mentally/physically would a desire demon be than a human?
6) Ven's unique power is the ability to channel another person'd power and, in doing so, make it stronger. Is there anything that would contradict this?
7) Wynne says an abomination that is 'cured' is forever changed. Any speculation as to what that entails?
8) Say somebody has their mind trapped in the Fade like Arl Eamon. Would something as powerful as the Sacred Ashes be the only way to save them, or might it be possible another way?

[Corker]

1) How long would it take for someone to learn to control their magic? I know most mages grow up in the Tower, but is there a way to learn quicker?

What degree of control?  I want to liken it to learning an instrument - you can probably play "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" flawlessly pretty quickly, but Chopin is going to take a while.

Or, discover an ancient elven phylactry that infodumps everything you need to know...

2) If a mage goes to the Fade whenever they dream, does that mean a demon could come along and kill/possess them any time they sleep? Further, might there be circumstances where they would daydream/have microsleeps where they seem to slip into the Fade during the day?

My personal canon is that yes, sleeping puts mages at risk.  I think it's less risk than when they're doing magic - they probably look more like regular sleepers, and the demons are less likely to see them than when they're lit up with mana and lyrium.  But I also don't think mages would be helpless against the demons - seems like you just have to not get tricked into saying, "Sure, come inside, take a look around."

I don't think daydreams would qualify as Fade-dreams, and I don't know if a microsleep gives you enough time to start dreaming.  Naps, though? Sure.

3) Do all demons really look and sound the same?

I really doubt it.  Enchanter Wilhelm notes that he suspects the desire demon he summoned could appear other than female.  Mouse appears as a mouse and as a mage before he reveals his true shape.

4) Is it specifically stated that mages are physically incapable of shaping the Fade? I think I read it in the codex, but that's been stated to be subjective.

Codex entry - no, mortals cannot shape the Fade.  Given that mages have been trying since the Imperium, I'd say it's not subjective.  It might not be absolutely correct, either - maybe the right method or enabling technology hasn't been discovered yet. 

5) Given relative power ranges, how much stronger mentally/physically would a desire demon be than a human?

Totally dependent on how cinematic/epic your world is.  If it were me, I'd say that they're only as strong as their host, physically.  Mentally... I'd put their average at maybe humanity's first standard deviation from average?  With the caveat that this is sheer willpower; demons got nuttin' for imagination, apparently.

6) Ven's unique power is the ability to channel another person'd power and, in doing so, make it stronger. Is there anything that would contradict this?

Nothing that I know that contradicts it, but little that suggests it, either.

7) Wynne says an abomination that is 'cured' is forever changed. Any speculation as to what that entails?

Fade sensitivity, increased chance of future possession, crushing guilt over knowing what your possessed body did while you were out?

8) Say somebody has their mind trapped in the Fade like Arl Eamon. Would something as powerful as the Sacred Ashes be the only way to save them, or might it be possible another way?

The Warden frees the Companions who are trapped in the Fade without the Sacred Ashes.  One expects Niall would have been saved as well, if he hadn't been so far along in the draining process.

I think Eamon needed the Ashes to counteract the poison he was given, not the symptoms the poison caused.

[Raonar]

My guess was that Eamon had suffered brain damage so that's why he couldn't get back to his sense.

OR the poison was only meant to incapacitate him (Word of God seems to say so) and since it defies most magical healing, it took some really game-breaking magic (Andraste Ashes) to cure the guy.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

8) Or they just didn't know what the poison was, or didn't know what the antidote was, so went for a mythical cure-all. But yeah, the Ashes didn't bring Eamon out of being trapped in the Fade, confronting the demon did that. The Ashes just cured the poison. It is, however, nice to know that magic can't heal everything. Poison seems to be one of those things. In fact, a number of Tevinter magisters have fallen to assassination *specifically* by poison according to codices and certain item descriptions.

Note that in defeating Connor's demon, a mage (and only a mage) had to go into the Fade to confront it. This could be achieved via a blood magic ritual and someone else acting as the blood source to power the spell (in this case Isolde, who died as a result) OR lots and lots of lyrium.

[Glorfindel709]

1) How long would it take for someone to learn to control their magic? I know most mages grow up in the Tower, but is there a way to learn quicker?

I imagine quite a few years, the learning music is an excellent suggestion. For example, my Mahariel mage was captured by Templars and dragged to the tower at age 7, and isnt getting out of there until he's almost 27 (He'll be an "Enchanter" rank mage who helps teach Spirit and Primal magics (his specialities) and spent a few months in confinement with Anders after trying to escape.) He'll be sent to Ostagar as the Circles' closest thing to a "Battle Magi" because he is one of their best offensive casters and is proficient with weapons (Sword and Staff baby!!)

2) If a mage goes to the Fade whenever they dream, does that mean a demon could come along and kill/possess them any time they sleep? Further, might there be circumstances where they would daydream/have microsleeps where they seem to slip into the Fade during the day?

In my thoughts, whenever they sleep they enter the Fade (where according to the Spirit Valor they *do* have the ability to shape aspects of the Fade to their will) and can interact with spirits and demons. But they have to accept the Demons or be defeated by them, which can kind of make it hard for a nap to be restful. I don't think they go into the Fade while day-dreaming, as I believe in order to Fade dream they leave their body behind and their consciounseness is flung into the Fade

3) Do all demons really look and sound the same?
Absolutely not! We have prime examples from the Magi origin (Mouse, Sloth, etc) as all looking different from demons we see later on. I think it's mostly just a constraint of game parameters that makes them all look identical (though I'm sticking to the naked lady motif for the Desire Demons :innocent:)

4) Is it specifically stated that mages are physically incapable of shaping the Fade? I think I read it in the codex, but that's been stated to be subjective.

I know that they cannot bring things from the Fade int othe real world, but Valor makes it out like their will can create things in the Fade, though to a much smaller degree than any spirit or demon. He comments that it must be very boring to be a human without Magic.

5) Given relative power ranges, how much stronger mentally/physically would a desire demon be than a human?
I'd say it would all depend on their Host in the real world, and in the Fade it would depend on how much territory in the Fade that they hold. It's commented that SLoth is so powerful because he controls such a large section of the Fade and "rents" it out to Other Demons that in turn serve him.

6) Ven's unique power is the ability to channel another person'd power and, in doing so, make it stronger. Is there anything that would contradict this?

Nope, not in the Lore I've read

7) Wynne says an abomination that is 'cured' is forever changed. Any speculation as to what that entails?

Fade Sensitivity is a definite bet, based on the Connor epilogues. I also imagine that they'd have a lot of issues when it comes down to knowing that they lost control of themselves like that and the results in lead to, especially Connor. a 10 year old boy asks you to Kill him so the Demon cannot hurt anyone anymore. Deep stuff

8) Say somebody has their mind trapped in the Fade like Arl Eamon. Would something as powerful as the Sacred Ashes be the only way to save them, or might it be possible another way?

Nope, I think the Ashes was just the treatment of the poison, the Demon was holding his mind in a stasis in the Fade and once the demon was defeated I imagine he just was in a regular coma.

[Raonar]

1) How long would it take for someone to learn to control their magic? I know most mages grow up in the Tower, but is there a way to learn quicker?

Well, that depends. I think any one spell shouldnt take THAT long to cast. WHat I think mages have more trouble with is learning to prevent accidental magic (that's just my speculation though).

2) If a mage goes to the Fade whenever they dream, does that mean a demon could come along and kill/possess them any time they sleep? Further, might there be circumstances where they would daydream/have microsleeps where they seem to slip into the Fade during the day?

The game implies that mages are always in danger of posession, so yes, I assume a demon CAN try to take you over in your sleep. This is what happens to Connor, although true enough, he did something to tear the veil opne/lull that b1tch to his dreamyiness.

3) Do all demons really look and sound the same?

Already answered. No. Actually, I'm pretty sure they can appear however the sod they want

4) Is it specifically stated that mages are physically incapable of shaping the Fade? I think I read it in the codex, but that's been stated to be subjective.

As Glorf said, Valor made it sound like they actually CAN shape the fade (sort of). I skimmed on the edges of this in my own story (My Surana changes his robes into scarled/black badass ones and creates a cool staff, then later he makes a set of armor for the DN during the Lost in Dreams questline. Minor stuff I can handwave easily really, although, admittedly, the second one was AFTER Alim made a deal with a certain Spirit that ended with part of the latter being lodged in his body until the elf fulfills some as yet unspecified term of their contract).

5) Given relative power ranges, how much stronger mentally/physically would a desire demon be than a human?

Since will is pretty much all that matters in the fade, I would say it's more of how much emotion that it can manipulate you are filed with.

6) Ven's unique power is the ability to channel another person'd power and, in doing so, make it stronger. Is there anything that would contradict this?

Again, the will thing. Since there are spells that enhance attributes, I'm guessing there is some way you can justify Ven's willpower/badassery (or lack thereof) being skyrocketed for some reason or another.

7) Wynne says an abomination that is 'cured' is forever changed. Any speculation as to what that entails?

What Wynne says is speculation in itself since she says that she knows of no cured abominations almost in the same sentence. I'm guessing it's an overall boost to badassery and maybe melancholy (what have I DONE/ALLOWED THAT THING TO MAKE ME DO!!!!)

8) Say somebody has their mind trapped in the Fade like Arl Eamon. Would something as powerful as the Sacred Ashes be the only way to save them, or might it be possible another way?[/quote]

Already answered. Eamon was comatose because of the poison.

Modifié par Raonar, 04 mars 2011 - 05:02 .

[ZerbanDaGreat1]

Whoah, sudden flood of answers!

1) Ven's problem isn't accidental magic. He's stated multiple times to be a pretty weak mage - the only times he casts offensive spells properly is when he draws on the demon's power. He did, however, managed to heal Morrigan after burning her accidentally. He also managed to bring Leliana back from the brink of death, though this took Morrigan's help and knocked him out for three days. (in-story healing magic doesn't as seem as easy/convenient as gameplay healing magic)

2) Getting possessed is obviously not a risk for Ven. Instead the demon uses his dreams to try and erode his will, appearing as people he knows or triggering nightmares. This leads to him having hallucinations during the day, like 'the demon's trying to stab me with a knife... but I'm holding the knife!'

3) Good. I didn't want Ven's demon to be a generic desire demon, especially since it's a corrupted spirit.

4) Ah. It wasn't really going to be anything serious. One time in the Fade Ven loses his sword, but tells himself it's just a dream and the sword is actually in his hand, then it appears.

5) During the final confrontation the demon and Ven are roughly matched in a fight, but for Ven to even get to that point takes a whole lot of encouragement. There's also the issue of a possessed person trying to kick out a demon themselves...

6) Ven's already formed some Social Links, so friendship is important . It's all to try and defy the Mary Sue convention by stressing that Ven needs other people to succeed, and he can't do everything on his own.

7) Well there'll be complications for Ven. Major, nightmare-inducing ones.

8) Curses, didn't think of that.

[DreGregoire]

I guess so! LOL. I saw your questions before going to sleep but was too tired to respond. Luckily everybody else saved me the energy by answering hehe.

Like others have said Will is what defines your success or lack of in fighting off possession, interestly enough the demon who has escaped at the tower is only controling the mind of the templar. Did anybody let them go free or did you destroy her? It also appears to be possible to create packs with fade beings. It's amazing to think of the different types of beings the fade must contain. We meet valor who finds it odd that only mages can bring things into being in the nonfade world, tricky mouse, sloth demon, fire demon guy, and a wealth of others later on. Then Wynne's life is saved by a spirit of the fade and they become connected, dependent on each other for survival. Then there are more types in awakenings. There also appears to be more spirits of the fade loose on the world than I originally thought. Weaknesses in the veil appear to be more prevalent than is safe. I believe the possibilites for the type of interactions with fade spirits to be endless, so creating your own wouldn't make it wrong so much as unique and potentially interesting.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 04 mars 2011 - 10:48 .

[Glorfindel709]

I know that I want to have some sort of Spirit connection for my Mahariel Mage. The Spirit of Endurance perhaps? (The title of the story is Suledin which is elven for Endure.. hehe)

I dunno yet, but I know that exploration of the Fade and the spirits in it is going to be a big part of the initial chapters of being in the Tower

[Raonar]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

I know that I want to have some sort of Spirit connection for my Mahariel Mage. The Spirit of Endurance perhaps? (The title of the story is Suledin which is elven for Endure.. hehe)

I dunno yet, but I know that exploration of the Fade and the spirits in it is going to be a big part of the initial chapters of being in the Tower

Not sure if endurance is an emotion though, or somethinng. I'm pretty sure their natures are more ambiguous/includsive. Like instead of Endurance, you could say Perseverance or Forebearance.

Also, from the whole Connor quest, you can ask the kid what the name of the demon is. He'll say she kept is a secret because names have power. So, basically, like how yevena was the name of that desire biatch from the raw fade in the Lost in Dreams quest, they all have names

[Glorfindel709]

Perseverance... that could work excellently.

But I wouldnt say that they're emotions, I'd say its a bit of a virtue or ideal more than anything else that defines the spirits of the Fade. Honor, Valor, Justice, Faith, etc etc
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Names having power and demons being unwilling to give their names is something extending back to biblical study and demonology. Knowing someones "True Name" gives you magical power over the person, specifically powers of control and dominance. If you know a demons name, you can banish them, command them, etc etc.

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 04 mars 2011 - 11:28 .