10369 réponses à ce sujet

[Glorfindel709]

You know what I never understood? The Warden is right near the Border of Orlais when he goes to Orzammar. Why not send one of of his companions into Orlais with a message to the Grey Wardens in the nearest Orlesian city like Jader, to inform the Wardens what they were doing and to seek help/knowledge.

I mean really, you have an international assassin, a bard, and a mage who can turn herself into different animals. Surely between the three of them they could figure out some way to deliver a message to Jader and try to get some sort of help.

[errant_knight]

Alistair believes that Loghain's forces will stop the Orlesian wardens at the border. We're meant to believe that it's possible that he can do so, or just accept that, I think. If there are limited passes leading into the country, he probably could.

As for which companions would stay. I'd say that Leliana and Wynne would (Leliana out of duty to the Maker's vision for her as she sees it and Wynne just out of duty)--and probably Oghren (just because he wouldn't be interested in traipsing to Orlais.) Sten and Zevran would go with the Warden--Shale probably would, too. Morrigan is more interested in a male warden being in proximity to the archdemon than anything else--so she'd stay.

My take would be that Alistair saves Eamon and Eamon's plan is the same--for Alistair to take the throne, so Alistair would have to bootstrap himself into believing he'd do it, or be convinced by the companions.

I don't tend to play the warden as being more heroic than the companions (although much more confident), preferring to believe that the companions have the capacity to reach the same conclusions by themselves or in concert, so my take might be different on that than other people's. If the warden is written as singular and absolutely necessary for the plot to progress properly, then Alistair would probably be really feeling out of his depth.

Modifié par errant_knight, 22 mars 2011 - 05:39 .

[Glorfindel709]

Honestly, I just find it hard to believe that the Wardens havent been entering Ferelden through the Deep Roads to get to Orzammar for years.... If Loghain is stopping them at the border, they'd just need to go under :-p

Also, the Frostbacks are a huge border, I sincerely doubt that it would be too difficult for someone like, say Zevran or Morrigan to sneak to Jader and deliver a message while the Warden and the rest go into the Deep Roads to try and find Branka to solve the sovereignty issue. Assuming that a relatively short trip like Bartrands took weeks in DA2, I can only imagine just how long the Warden and Co were trapising towards Ortan Thaig and then the Dead Trenches and then the Anvil of the Void beyond Bownammar.

They emerge from the Deep, exhausted, bloodied, injured, and hardened by the horrors and trials they experienced... only to find Riordan or another Warden there to offer them advice/encouragement/aid etc
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And goddammit, someone got the notion of a version of "Rocky Road to Dublin" changed to "Rocky Road to Denerim" and I've been sitting here singing how it would go.

Grr

Modifié par Glorfindel709, 22 mars 2011 - 05:54 .

[errant_knight]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Honestly, I just find it hard to believe that the Wardens havent been entering Ferelden through the Deep Roads to get to Orzammar for years.... If Loghain is stopping them at the border, they'd just need to go under :-p

Also, the Frostbacks are a huge border, I sincerely doubt that it would be too difficult for someone like, say Zevran or Morrigan to sneak to Jader and deliver a message while the Warden and the rest go into the Deep Roads to try and find Branka to solve the sovereignty issue. Assuming that a relatively short trip like Bartrands took weeks in DA2, I can only imagine just how long the Warden and Co were trapising towards Ortan Thaig and then the Dead Trenches and then the Anvil of the Void beyond Bownammar.

They emerge from the Deep, exhausted, bloodied, injured, and hardened by the horrors and trials they experienced... only to find Riordan or another Warden there to offer them advice/encouragement/aid etc
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And goddammit, someone got the notion of a version of "Rocky Road to Dublin" changed to "Rocky Road to Denerim" and I've been sitting here singing how it would go.

Grr

Well, they wanted us to solve the blight problem, not go to Orlais for help then bring them back to Ferelden, complerely skipping the DR issue. I like your description of their trip, though. Methinks you should write something like that. Maybe a story about a trip past Bownammar for some reason?

[DreGregoire]

Here's my take.

Alistair refuses to leave Ferelden and he seems satisfied to allow the new recruit to lead without interfering, unless that warden does something he strongly disagrees with. Ever threaten the chantry mother in Lothering? Alistair puts a stop to it with a threat against the warden when the mother asks if the warden would do violence upon her. "I will not allow that to happen."

The wardens and Orlesians were turned away at the border of Ferelden and what ever was said to them created serious problems. I believe more than one warden made it through into Ferelden but Loghain had them hunted as traitors and well killed all except one.

[Raonar]

Only Riordan DOES say he was the only one sent to Ferelden...

[DreGregoire]

Raonar wrote...

Only Riordan DOES say he was the only one sent to Ferelden...

yep he does say that he was the only one of the 200 hundred that were turned away at the border to enter Ferelden secretly. However, personally I don't think that means more wouldn't have made the attempt if they had been so inclined.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 22 mars 2011 - 09:54 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Remember that the Grey Wardens didn't want to spark a war between Ferelden and Orlais, and Loghain marked the Grey as traitors after Ostagar. Considering their relatively few numbers and the fact the archdemon hadn't been sighted yet, I'd think they were perfectly willing to sit tight and conserve their energies. No use having half their numbers killed by Ferelden fools before Uthemiel turned up.

WoG said that had Duncan survived Ostagar, he would have abandoned Ferelden and joined the Orlesians to wait out the civil war. Ferelden would have burned.

[DreGregoire]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Remember that the Grey Wardens didn't want to spark a war between Ferelden and Orlais, and Loghain marked the Grey as traitors after Ostagar. Considering their relatively few numbers and the fact the archdemon hadn't been sighted yet, I'd think they were perfectly willing to sit tight and conserve their energies. No use having half their numbers killed by Ferelden fools before Uthemiel turned up.

WoG said that had Duncan survived Ostagar, he would have abandoned Ferelden and joined the Orlesians to wait out the civil war. Ferelden would have burned.

I can see Duncan doing that. I was surprised in Awakenings that the Hero was made the Warden-Commander, but I guess they figured politically it was the wardens best bet. I kind of feel put out as a Ferelden that the Wardens don't seem to think we are worth their time. I mean they just sit back and let (if you play it that way) a Grey Warden to sit on the throne and a grey warden to become an Arl, but they refuse to send a substantial amount of wardens to deal with the remaining darkspawn threat. Is this a punishment for turning away the wardens during the blight? I guess I can see the political side of the warden's reasoning, but I would at least expect them to send somebody to read the riot act to the two politically inclined wardens. Wow, that would make for some seriously intense conversations. If they received any correspondence from Riordan then they might make allowances for the fact that the new recruits didn't know the rules well enough to follow them, plus they were young, alone, and obviously crazy! LOL

[Maria13]

DreGregoire wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Remember that the Grey Wardens didn't want to spark a war between Ferelden and Orlais, and Loghain marked the Grey as traitors after Ostagar. Considering their relatively few numbers and the fact the archdemon hadn't been sighted yet, I'd think they were perfectly willing to sit tight and conserve their energies. No use having half their numbers killed by Ferelden fools before Uthemiel turned up.

WoG said that had Duncan survived Ostagar, he would have abandoned Ferelden and joined the Orlesians to wait out the civil war. Ferelden would have burned.

I can see Duncan doing that. I was surprised in Awakenings that the Hero was made the Warden-Commander, but I guess they figured politically it was the wardens best bet. I kind of feel put out as a Ferelden that the Wardens don't seem to think we are worth their time. I mean they just sit back and let (if you play it that way) a Grey Warden to sit on the throne and a grey warden to become an Arl, but they refuse to send a substantial amount of wardens to deal with the remaining darkspawn threat. Is this a punishment for turning away the wardens during the blight? I guess I can see the political side of the warden's reasoning, but I would at least expect them to send somebody to read the riot act to the two politically inclined wardens. Wow, that would make for some seriously intense conversations. If they received any correspondence from Riordan then they might make allowances for the fact that the new recruits didn't know the rules well enough to follow them, plus they were young, alone, and obviously crazy! LOL

But that may not be the worst of it... Supposing the GWs found out that Riordan died before Archie was taken down, how did both wardens survive?

[DreGregoire]

When I talked to Alistair after the archdemon defeat he asks what he should tell the wardens because they were already asking questions. He said he would just play stupid and that playing so was a talent he had. LOL

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I don't have to worry about that problem. Loghain sacrificed himself in my canon game, so both Wardens definitely didn't survive. XD

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 22 mars 2011 - 10:51 .

[DreGregoire]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I don't have to worry about that problem. Loghain sacrificed himself in my canon game, so both Wardens definitely didn't survive. XD

[Maria13]

DreGregoire wrote...

When I talked to Alistair after the archdemon defeat he asks what he should tell the wardens because they were already asking questions. He said he would just play stupid and that playing so was a talent he had. LOL

Yes this... I actually built a few chaps of my FF round this with Alistair and the warden attempting to bluff their way out...

[KSuri]

I could see Duncan leaving Ferelden if he'd survived Ostegar. Especially if he didn't know that the Warden and Alistair were alive and had the treatise. I think he was banking on those to rally support. I could just as easily see a couple of fresh recruits with no political savvy having issues negotiating those waters.

For me I think any race/class other than human noble might just walk away from the whole Ferelden after running into road block after road block.

Redcliffe....demon invasion & sick Arl. I could see helping to deal with the undead, especially when you are hoping that a little ****** for tat will come out of it. But then you find out about Conner. Ok, it's hard to get your head around killing a kid, even one that is possessed so I could still see our intrepid Warden going to the Circle (again on good faith that this will put their cause in a favorable light with the Arl and the belief that they have to go there anyway) to help Conner out.

But then you run into the Circle problems. I would be inclined to believe that the Warden might be more aware of the destruction of magic than the powers of the Templars so would go the route of trying to save the mages. That would also feed into what the Warden is trying to gain by helping Conner. But I can just as easily see how someone not familiar with mages might think the Tower is lost and either leave or side with the Templars in thinking that some help is better than none.

It would be after this that I could see the Warden's patience starting to break down. They helped to save the village and the Arl's kid (one way or another) and yet Teagan refuses to step up and take the lead. Instead he wants to place all his cards into Isolde's crazy notion of the Urn. Considering her past actions I could see where the Warden might exchange some strong words with Teagan about just what the Warden risked and what they all risk if he doesn't get with the program. Having met with failure and understanding that time is of the essence I could see the Warden giving up on Redcliffe in the hopes that the other treatise will be more fruitful. (Alistair disapproves -75)

Now you've got the werewolf problem. But that isn't really the Warden's problem. There is where I could see the Warden leaving Zathrien's clan to deal with its issues alone. The Warden might hope to find another Dalish tribe on the way to Orzammar.

We all know what a vipers nest Orzammar is! Saving the Warden isn't a dwarf in this scenario that would be the straw that breaks the Warden.

Warden tells Alistair that they are leaving to Orlias. If Ferelden and the races within it are too stupid to help themselves than let them rot. Maybe if they can get to Orlias in time and gain the aid of the Wardens there they might help save the rest of Thedas.

Alistair, of course, doesn't agree. Big shouting match ensues...nasty words are exchanged along with a blow or two and that's it. Alistair stays in Ferelden with Lelianna (because of her vision and fear of going back to Orlias to face her past), Wynn (because she wouldn't walk away from what she sees as right), Morrigan (because she's a sneaky witch and can always turn into a bird and fly away). We'll pretend that Oghren doesn't come into play until later.

The Warden takes Sten (thinking this is the first sensible thing the Warden's done since they met) and Zevran (just because he's thrown his lot in with the Warden for better or for worse) and goes to Orlias. Evades patrols on the road and eventually gets to the Warden fortress in Orlias. Debriefs them on the situation ect, and finds that being a very junior member of the GW isn't all that it's cracked up to be. Commence crash courses in training and rules and history before the call comes to rally.

Let's just say (for story's sake) that Alistair got the aid of the dwarves and elves along with the mages. He could either have gone after the Urn or finally convinces Teagan that his brother was a lost cause. But let's say that the darkspawn were all over the place because it took longer for Alistair to accomplish alone what the Warden can in two years(?). It gets so bad that even Loghain can't deny that he's in trouble with the civil war that has been going on and the reduction of human forces available to fight. Loghain calls a Landsmeet, in which he even sends a notation that Alistair should attend having heard rumors that he's rallied an army to fight the Blight. Teagan doesn't press the matter of kingship and Alistair doesn't pursue it. Anora, Loghain, Teagan and Alistair meet privately where Alistair makes it clear that he is acting as a GW and that his primary concern is defeating the Archdemon. (Which is the only reason he's even willing to entertain the idea of working with Loghain.) Alistair might also let it slip that if anything happens to him Loghain loses the ability to use the army he's mustered because he's left orders that they should go to the Warden's in Orlias in that instance. (Alistair finally grows into hardened leadership.) Alistair also expands on the necessity of getting more Warden's into Ferelden and Loghain relents and has Anora send a missive asking for aid.

And that is when the Warden comes back to Ferelden. In charge of a contingent of men because they know the country and are more aware of the players in Ferelden than anyone else.

(sorry for the wall of text!)

[maxernst]

errant_knight wrote...

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Honestly, I just find it hard to believe that the Wardens havent been entering Ferelden through the Deep Roads to get to Orzammar for years.... If Loghain is stopping them at the border, they'd just need to go under :-p

Also, the Frostbacks are a huge border, I sincerely doubt that it would be too difficult for someone like, say Zevran or Morrigan to sneak to Jader and deliver a message while the Warden and the rest go into the Deep Roads to try and find Branka to solve the sovereignty issue. Assuming that a relatively short trip like Bartrands took weeks in DA2, I can only imagine just how long the Warden and Co were trapising towards Ortan Thaig and then the Dead Trenches and then the Anvil of the Void beyond Bownammar.

They emerge from the Deep, exhausted, bloodied, injured, and hardened by the horrors and trials they experienced... only to find Riordan or another Warden there to offer them advice/encouragement/aid etc
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And goddammit, someone got the notion of a version of "Rocky Road to Dublin" changed to "Rocky Road to Denerim" and I've been sitting here singing how it would go.

Grr

Well, they wanted us to solve the blight problem, not go to Orlais for help then bring them back to Ferelden, complerely skipping the DR issue. I like your description of their trip, though. Methinks you should write something like that. Maybe a story about a trip past Bownammar for some reason?

I would guess that closing the Frostback mountains to an army would be fairly easy, particularly the cavalry-heavy Orlesian army.  But I find it hard to believe that the Wardens couldn't enter Ferelden a few at a time, in disguise as merchants and traders or taking difficult high passes...although I getting lost could be a serious problem if you get away from the roads.  It's not as though all Orlesians are banned from the country, after all.  The problem for the PC might be persuading the Orlesian wardens that they can do enough to fight the Blight without the help of the four divisions of chevaliers that Loghain will definitely not allow in and who can't realistically sneak in.

[errant_knight]

@Ksuri--all that works for me except Alistair not necessarily going after the Urn and waking Eamon. I can't see him just leaving Eamon like that, both for personal and political reasons. He can get Teagan to lead the Redcliffe forces into battle, but Loghain is still a problem and Teagan doesn't have the same political clout as Eamon.

Modifié par errant_knight, 22 mars 2011 - 04:36 .

[Glorfindel709]

Most of the Wardens, from what we know of Lore, were content to let Ferelden burn. One was sent to see what was going on, but when they were turned away at the border and marked as traitors, and the events of Ostagar came to light, I sincerely doubt that the Wardens would want to waste their time fighting to get into the country and then have to fight the Blight after getting involved in the Civil War.

More likely, they'd allow sympathetic wardens like Riordan who called Ferelden their home to sneak back in to recon or try to do what they can while they garrison along the Border to deal with the Blight once Ferelden is in ruins and the Archdemon turns his armies outward.

[errant_knight]

Imagine if after leaving Ferelden, and leaving the remaining companions to do things by themselves, the warden returns months later with only Riordan! *much sarcasm from Alistair ensues--also yelling and the 'eyebrow of doom.'*

Modifié par errant_knight, 22 mars 2011 - 05:16 .

[maxernst]

Glorfindel709 wrote...

Most of the Wardens, from what we know of Lore, were content to let Ferelden burn.

In my next fanfic, this point will in fact be made by Alistair when the Wardens in Weisshaupt are critical of certain choices they made during the Blight.

[Maria13]

So what do I do, guys? I've just written a very short story about Alistair in DA2... Risk publishing it on the DA2 creations site as well as FF... It would be a K rating nothing risque or just publish the link?

[DreGregoire]

errant_knight wrote...

Imagine if after leaving Ferelden, and leaving the remaining companions to do things by themselves, the warden returns months later with only Riordan! *much sarcasm from Alistair ensues--also yelling and the 'eyebrow of doom.'*

Not the eyebrow! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

[DreGregoire]

Maria13 wrote...

So what do I do, guys? I've just written a very short story about Alistair in DA2... Risk publishing it on the DA2 creations site as well as FF... It would be a K rating nothing risque or just publish the link?

Supposed to only be links so maybe publish it in a blog with a link to the blog in the DA2 creation forum. I haven't even been on the DA2 creation section so I don't know what others are doing.

[Maria13]

Yeah, I'll do that 'cause FF is still down for new stories and the work around won't work for them...

[DreGregoire]

I just replayed the Riordan conversations today and what he said about the other wardens was they wouldn't risk losing their members in Ferelden as it fought over the throne instead of focusing on the darkspawn horde like they should be. They got turned away at the border anyways so there was no real way for them to help Ferelden. Not the warden recruits fault exactly but some other persons name that I will not mention hahaha!

Also the Wardens of Orlais knew it was a blight because they could hear the archdemon.