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[Raonar]

Merilsell wrote...

Morwen Eledhwen wrote...
I can't seem to update more often than once every 3-4 weeks --how do you all do it? And Merilsell, your chapters are not short-- so I wonder if that has an effect on my stats. I do get some new readers each time, but I'm equally grateful for those who come back after such a long hiatus and continue to read the new chapters.

Actually I don't know, lol. I have a wonderful beta made of awesomesauce who is as crazy as me and really fast and throughout with her corrections *hugs Mackillian* ...so that helps to keep my weekly schedule. Then I also have (almost) always a chapter more written than of what is published. Buffer are awesome and keep me from doing a lot of OMGOMGOMG flailing when the end of the week is near and time to publish.

As for the chapter length, I have arranged myself with the fact that I can't pull out a chapter under 5000 words for the sake of my life. Ever. So accepting the fact makes it easier to not flail when I publish a typical 9k word chapter, lol. Wordy FF is wordy. But I don't think that I have more reader because of that...sure the weekly schedule helps to be more present but I would rather think that people are bewildered by the pure length of it. 280k words and still counting. Cough.

You think THAT's long? Should I mention that my own story is only half-done? At least this let me incorporate all the DA2 lore retcons in it, somehow.

BTW, your DA2 pet peeve was so hilarious to read. Just sigh indeed.

[Merilsell]

Hehe, it is. Considering that I originally started this FF as a drabble-series (I found lately the first drafts of it, was an amusing find, really) But I know that nothing beats your extensiveness, of course I mean 630k words ...wow. WOW. You are going to have the longest DA: FF on this site for sure. I don't know if I will regard the lore-retcon because mostly they don't make no sense at all. Especially not what concerns the Dalish...so yeah. To me DA2 doesn't offer much story-wise and I have no interest to fill the holes like I have done (and still do) it with my DA-FF.

Heh, thanks. I have written that snarky bit just in case, because my beta gets sh*tload of "Is Hawke in it" emails since she had started to incorporate *Merrill* and Sundermount in her story. And it gets annoying for her, so yeah pure self-defense here, lol.

[Raonar]

I wasn't trying to gloat or anything. . And, oddly enough, Hawke DOES appear in mine, a cameo of sorts (well, two of them, and only because the Wardens happened to be in ostagar/lothering at the time.

I was underwhelmed by DA2 as well, in all areas really, but I'll stop here since I'd take this thread off topic if I said more. Anyway, maybe I'll finally get started on that next chapter now. Shi_ will finally start hitting the vents in my little tale.

[KSuri]

How closely do you think different, I guess you'd call them, divisions of Wardens communicate with one another? Share intelligence and the like?? There has to be some kind of communications between the Wardens in other countries.

[DreGregoire]

KSuri wrote...

How closely do you think different, I guess you'd call them, divisions of Wardens communicate with one another? Share intelligence and the like?? There has to be some kind of communications between the Wardens in other countries.

That's one thing that was odd about DA:O there wasn't much mention of corespondences being passed around. In DA:O Warden letters are dispatched to Ferelden, Alistair mentions at the end of the game that he has received questions already from the Wardens. My guess would be that there is much of the old way of passing stuff from person to person who is headed the correct way. Merchant caravans were often used for that purpose. In DA2 there is some mention of Grey Warden Coorespondences, so...

I think there is much contact between the wardens in other countries probably more so than with the ones in Ferelden because they were exiled for so long from Ferelden. Passing knowledge may be a bit more difficult because of the variation of Wardens, but I bet the Warden compounds are full of useful knowledge. I wonder how much info is in Orzammar that wardens may have left behind.

I hope that my ramble helped

Modifié par DreGregoire, 08 mai 2011 - 11:42 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Carrier pigeons? Messenger hawks? Pointless Albatross? Send via fox?

Don't know, there is no mention of 'how' other than the occasional dead courier :/

[jackkel dragon]

I think Warden correspondance (spelling?) was halted by Loghain along with any non-Riordan Wardens during DAO, until the epilogue. Otherwise, I'll bet they use their own messengers/piggyback on caravans.

[Firky]

Hi, DA lore buffs. Help me out on demonic possession.

If you are possessed by a demon in the DA universe, it can alter your perception of your surroundings, right? So you might be looking at an enemy but be seeing a lover. It can trick you like that?

And, more importantly. If you are possessed by a demon, can it make you appear as something else to other people? So, you are a tall man with blonde hair, but people see you as a short, elven woman?

Any insight appreciated.

Hope all of the epic fanfics are still coming along well.

Modifié par Firky, 09 mai 2011 - 06:00 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

There have been cases of demons being able to alter the perceptions of those they have under their power (like the Desire Demon and the Templar in Broken Circle), but that was not strictly speaking possession--the demon and 'victim' are separate entities.

If someone is possessed the demon/spirit is physically within a person (eg. Justice), or has their spirit trapped in the Fade and is controlling them from there (eg. any abomination). While the demon is in control, perception manipulation is not needed. In the case of Connor (and a certain mage in DA2), the demon being in control resulted in the 'victim' suffering memory loss for the duration.

As for question #2, I don't recall any cases of a possessed person being able to look any different. As far as I remember, the demon was limited in appearance to the body it had possessed and its own. I don't see why a suitably powerful demon (like Desire or Pride) couldn't use its magic the same way as a free-roaming demon can (like the Desire + Templar case above), but it's anyone's guess how many people the demon could trick at once. Note that the demon would arguably be a great deal more powerful in the Fade.

Edit: I did a blog on demons and abominations after DA2 come out. Don't know if this is useful to you, but throwing it out there.

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 09 mai 2011 - 08:52 .

[ZerbanDaGreat1]

I go by the assumption that a demon can screw with their host's perception of reality - there's just never a situation where they need too. For example - Ventus gets auditory and visual hallucinations and does things in his sleep. Of course, later it can move him while he's awake due to the seal breaking down.

On the subject of demons, just how much power does a demon have in the Fade? We know they can shape it. They're also apparently stronger in the Fade. The most I've actually shown so far is the ability to Trash the Set on command.

It's just that there's a really major bit near the end that feels dangerously close to an Ass Pull unless I get clarification.

[Raonar]

I got the feeling that the Sloth demon in the circle tower, who pulls the warden and the others in a dream, is so powerful (has desire, hunger, rage demons etc under its command) because it got a massive powerup from the Warden and the others, elite life force and all that jazz.

As for what they can do, I'm guessing they are gods in their respective realms. What they CAN'T do is override the free will of mortal spirits. While they do control their bodies when abominations, the spirit is not, precisely, being controlled. They are chained and isolated, helpless (think Fiona in the Calling).

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I suspect the power of a demon in the Fade depends on the demon, but they have more power at their disposal in the Fade than in the mortal realm and unanchored (without a host--especially a mage host). The more mortal psyches the demon is feeding on, the more powerful it is in its realm (Sloth, Baroness' demon). And if the demon manages to snag a 'Dreamer' (DA2) apparently that's the ultimate prize.

"While they do control their bodies when abominations, the spirit is not, precisely, being controlled. They are chained and isolated, helpless (think Fiona in the Calling)." --> I agree.

[Firky]

Uh oh. You guys raise some good points.

OK. Well what about in the tower in DAO. Don't you meet a pride demon in a room with a guy who thinks she's, like, a wife? You can attack the demon or let them go off "happily" together, or something? How does that work? She's clearly influencing his perception, anyway.

(Good blog, SoL.) Wow, a dreamer. I want The Longest Journey/Dreamfall to be resolved.

[ZerbanDaGreat1]

So... am I right in recalling someone says that Fiona manages to beat a demon that's possessing her?

Also, Marethari says that 'cured' abominations are never the same. Any speculation as to what that means? I have an idea, based off extrapolation from Ander's condition, but it's not grounded in much. Ventus is also a special case even among abominations, which will be explored.

I also wonder. Non-dwarves are all connected to the Fade. They go there when they dream, and it's heavily implied that Templar abilities are basically non-mages harnessing their latent Fade connections in an anti-mage fashion. So... I wonder if people could be connected via the Fade.

Another side note; given the near-identical techniques, could a mage use templar abilities? (full of questions today, aren't I?)

[Corker]

DA2 dialogue, relevant to discussion but spoilery so I'll try to fade it out - highlight to read:

• Anders: It's not a good feeling you know.
• Merrill: What?
• Anders: Being an abomination. I just got a taste of your future.
• Merrill: I'm not that foolish. Our relationship is, um, strictly platonic.
• Anders: It's like you're trapped in your own body, seeing out your eyes, while someone else moves you like a puppet.
• Anders: And you're trying to scream, to move a single muscle, but there's no escape. Until you look down at the blood on your hands...
• Merrill: Stop it. You're scaring me.
• Anders: That's the point.

Modifié par Corker, 09 mai 2011 - 06:02 .

[ZerbanDaGreat1]

I'm pretty sure Jowan says that an abomination depends on how it was created. Connor, and by extension Anders, keep their minds because the deal was willing. Uldred was most likely willing as well. The random guy in the tower that gets abomination'd was most definitely not a proper deal.

SPOILERS

Also, I think one dialog with Anders reveals that he and Justice merged, so there's no actual multiple personalities.

[Corker]

Re: Marethari, my personal read on that wasn't anything  mystical.  It's simply a huge mental violation, a deep and lasting trauma.  That's going to leave a mark.  How and what kind probably depends, just as people's responses to other traumas varies.

Re: Connections, how do you mean 'connected'?  There are several magics in canon that allow for some degree of connection in the Fade.  Dreamers can get into your head and put things in it.  So can blood mages (unless that's just the Chantry confusing blood mages who were somniari with powerful but regular blood mages).  Marethari's ritual sends four minds into a shared space in the Beyond (admittedly one created by a dreamer, so that might be a one-off); the Warden communes with Niall and then with her companions in Sloth's domain.

Two conscious mages, performing a ritual at the same time, might have a way to 'meet' in the Fade... but you want to be aware that the dreamers are supposed to be powerful and rare and scary, so anything that treads too closely to their abilities weakens that bit of lore.  I've read at least one fanfic that had a pair of lovers meeting in a dream, although the mage (IIRC) thought it was 'just a dream' for most of it, since of course it was totally impossible to find someone's dreamscape by intention.  As a single enchanted moment, it worked for me as a device.  If an author were to leverage it into long-distance dream-speaking on a regular basis, I wouldn't find it as charming.

Re: mage/templars, why on earth would you want Holy Smite when you can have Mana Clash?   Mana Drain, Dispel Magic and Mana Clash are already your near-equivalents to Righteous Strike, Cleansing Aura and Holy Smite.  I would think that magic resistance would be bad for a mage, though, so I would think that while the Spirit spells and the templar abilities have similar effects, they achieve them by different means, and that for a mage to pursue the templar path (if it were possible) would mean crippling their ability to do magic.  (But not negating it totally, so there's still a risk of possession.)

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Firky wrote...

OK. Well what about in the tower in DAO. Don't you meet a pride demon in a room with a guy who thinks she's, like, a wife? You can attack the demon or let them go off "happily" together, or something? How does that work? She's clearly influencing his perception, anyway.

You're thinking of the Desire Demon I mentioned That's the one that has the templar in the tower thinking he's married with kids, and they're at home having a lovely domestic evening (and if you try to attack, she makes him think you're a bandit invading their home).

In tend to think that templar is 'charmed' rather than possessed (like the Charm spell from Ultima!). Possession implies something is inside and in some degree of control (or at least heavy interference) over the victim, while being charmed, is, well...enthralled, bewitched, fooled into thinking the demon is a friend, but not *controlled*, per se. The charmed person's senses and perceptions are being tricked, but he is acting of his own accord.

That make sense?

(Good blog, SoL.) Wow, a dreamer. I want The Longest Journey/Dreamfall to be resolved.

I haven't played either! I heard good things about The Longest Journey though.

[ZerbanDaGreat1]

Aha. The case I have in mind would be a bit more serious than that. And angsty. Don't forget the delicious angst.

Ok, Ventus' claim to fame is essentially KOTOR 2 Force bonds. He's an extraordinarily crappy mage by himself. Any magic he can do alone needs the demon to give it a little juice. But by becoming close to the others in the party, he forms a bond with them across the Fade. You see, he acts like a conduit, or magic amplifier. If he casts a defensive spell, a party member can help him with it to boost the strength. If Wynne or Morrigan uses a spell, he can give them some of his energy to power it up. It also has other uses that are spoilers.

I was meaning more the 'lol try using that status spell on me now beeyotch' part of Templar-ism. Or more specifically, mental strength. The mental toughness would be rather useful for a mage, wouldn't it?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

@ZerbanDaGreat1: I agree with what Corker says re: Marethari and abominations. It sounds like mental anguish. The transformation itself is horrific, and depending on what the demon did through you it could be incredibly traumatic. Wynne says something about the subject as well in DA:O, that a cured abomination would be 'forever changed'. (Connor seems fine, but he was not a 'classic' abomination and doesn't seem to remember anything, so maybe he doesn't count? Or are possessions kidsafe?). There *may* be another element in that the victim's essense and the demon's are merged, and the tighter the merge the harder to untangle (you might have to tear, or cut, or rip, to get the two different spirits separated, and that would hurt IMO. Permanently scarred soul?).

re: The Anders/Merrill convo--ooh, forgot that one. So I guess they don't always black out? Maybe it depends on how tightly the demon is holding on. Or maybe it's just blasted inconsistent. >.<

@ZerbanDaGreat1: re willingness, I have to disagree that it's willingness that decides if a mage is a classic abomination or not. To me it seemed that plenty of mages were willing to strike deals with mages if it meant they would survive a fight (against Templars, for instance). I have my own theory in my blog, but it's just a theory.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

ZerbanDaGreat1 wrote...

Aha. The case I have in mind would be a bit more serious than that. And angsty. Don't forget the delicious angst.

Ok, Ventus' claim to fame is essentially KOTOR 2 Force bonds. He's an extraordinarily crappy mage by himself. Any magic he can do alone needs the demon to give it a little juice. But by becoming close to the others in the party, he forms a bond with them across the Fade. You see, he acts like a conduit, or magic amplifier. If he casts a defensive spell, a party member can help him with it to boost the strength. If Wynne or Morrigan uses a spell, he can give them some of his energy to power it up. It also has other uses that are spoilers.

I was meaning more the 'lol try using that status spell on me now beeyotch' part of Templar-ism. Or more specifically, mental strength. The mental toughness would be rather useful for a mage, wouldn't it?

Well...I don't know why you're worried about game mechanics just to access an ability I'm sure you can figure out other techniques for a mage to increase his mental resilience (personally I'm sure such techniques should EXIST, considering Fade nightmares and demons).

And if your mage is possessed, heck, between the abilities of Wynne's spirit and Justice, NFI what their limitations or capabilities are. Considering what happens in DA2, go nuts.

[Corker]

@SoLD, well, it's also Anders, whose situation is a bit unique. He seems to think it would apply to Merrill, though... I'd go out on a limb and say it depends on the demon? Connor appeared to be 'imprisoned' in the Fade, unable to see anything in the real world except when he was himself for brief moments. A different demon (a stronger one? How weak do you have to be that a barely-trained twelve-year old can fight you for control of his body?) might keep the host's consciousness "on board," especially if it's one of the demons that's so interested in how humans see the world. Since Justice isn't in the Fade, he can't possibly pull Anders's mind there, so Anders is stuck in his own head for the duration.

@ZerbaDaGreat1: Oh, is it increased mental resistance instead of magic resistance? I should have checked... I dunno, it would feel off to me without a really solid reason for it.

I don't know what a Force Bond is, so... this connecting ability is a special thing only Ventus can do? There is canon precedent for borrowing magical strength from others, but it's via the physical/blood magic path, not via the spirit/Fade path.

ETA: I take that back.  Mana and Life Drain both borrow strength from others.  It's not the same as the conduit thing you're describing, and it doesn't require a special bond in the Fade, but it's in the ballpark next door.

Since Ventus is apparently unique, I think you can say he forms bonds however he does it.  "Through the Fade" makes as much sense as anything else, although... is Ventus blocked from bonding with dwarves?

Modifié par Corker, 09 mai 2011 - 06:02 .

[Raonar]

About dwarves, I'll go out on a limb here and say they all have their own little piece of the fade somewhere inside their heads, only isolated. A permanent, self-affecting version of "It's like you brought a piece of the Fade back into this world" if you know what I mean.

EDIT

Could also explain why Varric is the only one who hears the idol at first in DA2, when finding the last piece left. It could also explain why dwarven spirits persist in this world (like in Bownammar, praying to the stone and attacking if you do the gangue Shade sub-quest). And then there's the four-face thing that spits dwarven warrior spirits out.

Modifié par Raonar, 09 mai 2011 - 02:34 .

[Corker]

I'm not sure the dwarven spirits are much different from the Gauntlet spirits, or the spirits at Soldier's Peak who re-enact the battles. Which is to say: not the actual souls or spirits of the dead (Avernus appears in the flashbacks and he aten't dead yet), but unembodied Fade spirits shaped by strong emotions that bled across the Veil. Shades or wraiths with pretty faces, essentially.

[DreGregoire]

Your spoilers are not hidden they are just in black making them more obvious. Maybe you could have made a link to it instead?

Modifié par DreGregoire, 09 mai 2011 - 04:59 .