10369 réponses à ce sujet

[Raonar]

On that note, Shale, in Origins, also mentions that Wilhelm had magic to keep himself concealed when going down in the Deep Roads, so I'm guessing Invisibility exists.

[Corker]

ZerbanDaGreat1 wrote...

Well *bleep*. I don't know how I'd get that done, (Broken Circle's already done) and leaving Oghren out would break the Aesop I'm going for. 

Maybe the ability uses a different mechanism than 'connected via Fade,' then.  It seems to require continued close physical proximity, which doesn't scream "Fade" to me, anyhow.  The whole thing has echoes of blood magic, to me - not the thing itself, but that idea where with Blood Control, you have two bodies operating under one will.  In Blood Control, it's an oppressive imposition of will; this sounds more cooperative - two minds which are of one purpose, drawing on the combined strength of two bodies.

I would approach it from that angle - something about how, after he's spent enough time with people, Ventus will actually find his body mimicking their biorhythms, heartbeat and breathing in particular.  That's the point at which the bond is strong enough to use.  At a guess, I see on the horizon a climactic battle scene in which the entire party fights as one?  It just takes time for him to bring them all into synch with each other, at which point he can amp them all simultaneous *and* possibly serve as some sort of command and control, "I'll form THE HEAD" centering thing that helps them all coordinate.  (Ignore me if you have something else in mind...)

If you've already said it's via the Fade, that could maybe just be Ventus's best idea for what's going on so far, and he'll realize that's probably wrong when he bonds to Oghren.

Modifié par Corker, 10 mai 2011 - 12:50 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

@Raonar: Ooh, you're right. Invisibility or camouflage or something that made monsters not notice him, at least. It's late or I would try to find the exact dialogue...

Also, the Mad Hermit in the Brecillian Forest was using some sort of illusion/invisibility magic when he first 'appeared', but I think Morrigan labelled him as dangerously powerful (or something).

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 10 mai 2011 - 12:54 .

[Merilsell]

*snort*

I'm amused.

It is a year and a half since I started this FF of mine and now I finally got my first negative review (negative as in YOU SUCK LOLOLOLOL) Anonymous of course. I even got accused of my character being a Mary Sue (sticking to the classic insults, I figure).

Oh I feel so honored. Lol.

Here the full *very helpful* feedback for your amusement. It is too good not to share it.

Wow, Lenya is such a Mary Sue. Everything seems to revolve around her and no matter how much of a **** she is people still love her. To be completely frank, this is awful. I'd rather read "Of ****sons & Nobles" or "Elysium" but I tried to read your fic from beginning to end to try something else. I really tried but no matter how many times I read it, it still is lousy. Sometimes when you write you just need to use the Mary Sue litmus test first, which obviously plenty of writers don't. Wasted potential.

Excuse me I'm going to cry in my pillow now how awful I am.

[Creature 1]

Have you annoyed RCDAnon/ElysiumFic lately? 

[Merilsell]

Err...no. I had a nice brief chat with her months ago but that's it. Also sorry but reading her posts and FF she is more ...elaborate and nice than....THAT.

I just love when someone is writing such BS that he/she doesn't have at least the balls to leave the destructive horsecrap SIGNED. So I can respond accordantly- maybe just with a "You know what? STFU and come back when you have something useful to add"...but I at least had the possibility then. Ugh.

[Maria13]

Pay them no heed Meril...

As for Elysium her stuff rocks. I would be proud to be in the same league as her.

[Merilsell]

Naah, I won't...much. Probably going to laugh over it with my beta, because it is fun that way. Maybe answer a few snarky snark lines in my review section but that's it.

However with that MS- accusation my life on FF.net is now complete...a writer can't go without at least one of these anon reviews there, after all.

*is amused*

[Raonar]

Did you guys and ladies even see just how completely bonkers the use of the term Mary Sue even is nowadays? People have been abusing those two words so much that they've started to use them as synonyms for any character they happen to dislike... so yeah, there's that.

My story is actually, besides a means to enjoy myself and cultivate my meager writing skills, a means of conducting a social psychology experiment. After almost a year, I discovered this:

Any character who happens to be both morally upright and successful is a Mary Sue, because there is no WAY a character can be believable/relatable unless they have enough issues that, by today's laws, they would be either institutionalized or thrown in prison.

So yeah, people seem to be forgetting that heroes of epic fantasies are supposed to be figures we can look up to, not pity.

[inquartata02]

Merilsell: I'm still giggling at the idea that Lenya is a Mary Sue. And not everyone loves her. And... wow, obviously the reviewer didn't read it until the end (well, I mean, where the story currently is), because Lenya changes (character growth? Why, yes).

[ZerbanDaGreat1]

Corker wrote...

ZerbanDaGreat1 wrote...

Well *bleep*. I don't know how I'd get that done, (Broken Circle's already done) and leaving Oghren out would break the Aesop I'm going for. 

Maybe the ability uses a different mechanism than 'connected via Fade,' then.  It seems to require continued close physical proximity, which doesn't scream "Fade" to me, anyhow.  The whole thing has echoes of blood magic, to me - not the thing itself, but that idea where with Blood Control, you have two bodies operating under one will.  In Blood Control, it's an oppressive imposition of will; this sounds more cooperative - two minds which are of one purpose, drawing on the combined strength of two bodies.

I would approach it from that angle - something about how, after he's spent enough time with people, Ventus will actually find his body mimicking their biorhythms, heartbeat and breathing in particular.  That's the point at which the bond is strong enough to use.  At a guess, I see on the horizon a climactic battle scene in which the entire party fights as one?  It just takes time for him to bring them all into synch with each other, at which point he can amp them all simultaneous *and* possibly serve as some sort of command and control, "I'll form THE HEAD" centering thing that helps them all coordinate.  (Ignore me if you have something else in mind...)

If you've already said it's via the Fade, that could maybe just be Ventus's best idea for what's going on so far, and he'll realize that's probably wrong when he bonds to Oghren.

Oh. Well, it doesn't need physical contact. It's just that since Ven has no idea how it works, so he assumes that's the only way he can do it. Plus while it's only use so far is for power amping, it has more metaphysical uses later. The idea of it being a good form of blood magic is interesting, and I hay have to steal borrow it.

Or I guess it could partly be a placebo effect. That kind of thing is more accepted with mystical stuff because it really is all in your head. Ah well, still have time to work this out.

[Firky]

GSSAGE7 wrote...

Firky wrote...
Is there any other DA lore way to disguise someone?

Well in Stolen Throne, Wilhem checks Maric twice to see if he's really Maric. Since he's a circle mage, and likely wouldn't know about Shapeshifting, it's possible there are illusion-based ways to disguise someone.

Hmm. I have a copy of Stolen Throne which I can't get into - but I'll go scour it for info. Ta.

Also - on the term "Mary Sue," I just learned that term recently (when someone pointed out I'd written one about a certain Witcher. Ahem.) My understanding is that Mary Sue is based on the writer and that she falls in love with some hunk. (Well, that was how it was used in my case. Rightly so.)

Modifié par Firky, 11 mai 2011 - 02:27 .

[Corker]

Here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue

Covers the origin and evolution of the term. It's descriptive rather than prescriptive - describes how the term is generally used, rather than some idea of its "proper" use. So yes, a Sue can be a direct self-insert or a proxy or a character who seems so full of wish-fulfillment fantasies that it's jarring.

ETA: Also a nice article: http://www.merrycoz....ers/MARYSUE.HTM
Mary Sue has apparently been around since the mid-19th century!  (Yes, I know she's named for a character in a 1974 Star Trek fanfic... which I just read was supposed to be a satire, which I've never heard before!)

Modifié par Corker, 11 mai 2011 - 01:42 .

[ZerbanDaGreat1]

A Mary Sue is a lot more subjective than people would like to think. You know those litmus tests? Don't believe them. Getting a highs score should not make you think your character is bad. You know what makes a character not a Mary Sue? Context.

1) Any of those common Mary Sue traits? If you answer them 'yes BUT' then they probably don't apply.

2) It depends on the skill of the writer. Anything can seem trite and cliché if done wrong, whereas even 'mary sue' characters can be good if done right. So if a character has Mary Sue traits, work hard on those traits to make them fit.

[Creature 1]

Well, if you're answering, "Yes, but. . ." you could just be rationalizing.

It's very subjective. Some Mary Sues are a matter of taste. But there are some that aggravate practically everyone.

[thesnowtigress]

I'm lucky to even get one review per story. Except for my first one, which I think has 5, but the majority of them were concrit someone graciously did for me, and one of them I guess is sort of negative - they told me they couldn't get into my story. Which I guess was helpful. Sometimes I feel like going back and re-writing the whole first story. I was rusty when I wrote it; I'd only been writing history papers for the last couple of years. I wasn't seperating anything into chapters when I started it, so I don't like the first couple of chapters. Plus, I was writing at work, in between customers ha. I remember getting frustrated when I was on a roll and a customer would come in and take forever to leave the store. Hehe. The last time I wrote creatively before that was when I was 14 and I don't know why I ever stopped. I had gotten two short stories published... maybe 'cause my brother told me I only got published 'cause they needed to fill up the pages and ooh a 14 year old would be cool. Ha. I shouldn't have let him get to me. Anyway, now that I have lots of free time, fan fiction is a great way to practice writing, and to pass the time, though I find it harder now that winter is finally over (ooh no I just jinxed it, it's going to snow again, like when I threw my boots in the closet, haha) and the weather is nice.

Anyway, I meant to ask, what is this Mary Sue litmus test? I feel like a lot of you have backgrounds in creative writing, and I only ever wrote academic papers, so I don't know all of these terms, like "purple" writing and Mary Sue.

[Corker]

There are several web pages out there that ask you questions about a character. You answer the questions, and the web page rates how strongly your character looks like a wish-fulfillment proxy (Mary Sue). Google "Mary Sue litmus test" and you'll get several different ones to try.

Sues often have many things in common (unusual physical appearance, persecution and/or abusive backstory, extraordinary talents, special bonds to animals, etc) and the web quizzes just count how many cliches the character shares.

[Merilsell]

The litmus test has been invented to test if your character qualifies as MS. To me it is utter BS for the reason that you can't categorize a character as MS due a list of trivial aspects of a character that can be easily made legitimate depending on the depth and work the author puts into it. (Okay if your Warden can turn into a flying unicorn and can shoot lightening out of her/his ass, you ought to rethink your characterization. Everything else and a believable character can be created/written easily with the use of the wonderful thing named Common sense. I don't need a test for that. Especially not one where Bono from U2 scored a whooping 72 and is hence the worlds biggest Mary Sue. Lol.)

It is good for a laugh, however. Just like that "review"  b*tching I have received. To which I have totally answered in my own review section now. Long live the snark hammer 

Modifié par Merilsell, 11 mai 2011 - 10:17 .

[inquartata02]

Purple writing? What?

(*also makes note to never, ever ****** off Merilsell. Like, ever.*)

[Corker]

I'm guessing "purple prose."

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Purple_prose

[Merilsell]

"A somnambular accommodation"

is my favorite. Although "a nectarian beverage" is interesting too. Seeing this description of purple prose and those examples awakes in me the need to shake the author by the shoulders and scream "SPILL IT OUT ALREADY!" Ugh.

(Aww, as you ever would. *hugs* You know I'm okay with negative critic if it is constructive. It helps me to get better after all. What I'm not okay with is unfounded, destructive b*tching just for the heck of it. Such behavior awakes my inner snarking monster, where I normally would shrug and walk away. I write this story because I love to do it, so I don't need someone waltzing over the things I like just because they get a lulz out of it. Okay eventually I'm the one lulzing now. To write this textwall of snark was truly invigorating, after all. Funny too. At least for me. Cough.)

[thesnowtigress]

Purple prose - "Purple prose is a term of literary criticism used to describe passages, or sometimes entire literary works, written in prose so over extravagant, ornate, or flowery as to break the flow and draw attention to itself. Purple prose is sensually evocative beyond the requirements of its context. It also refers to writing that employs certain rhetorical effects such as exaggerated sentiment or pathos in an attempt to manipulate a reader's response."

okay, that is something I don't really do. My descriptions are usually pretty weak, lol. But is it a good or bad thing to do? I guess it depends on the taste of the reader? I for one get annoyed when an author spends two pages describing a plate or something ridiculous like that.

I did a Mary Sue test, my character is apparently a Mary Sue, yet I barely checked anything off. Merilsell I totally agree with you about it being BS.

[Corker]

"Purple prose" is generally considered a bad thing. It's a technique that calls attention to itself, and in general, you don't want the casual reader to notice your technique. You want the reader to notice your story.

I've seen it used on purpose for comic effect - "Isabela's friend-fiction" and the like, or lampoons of genres where it's a problem. And sometimes very stylized or intense description flirts with being purple prose, sort of on the line where some folks will think it's powerful, and some will think it's ludicrously over the top.

And quantity counts. "Tawny hair flowing like silk in the warm evening breeze" could be okay if it's out with plainer prose in a paragraph. Then it's florid but not insanely so. If there are also sparkling amethyst eyes, rippling muscles coiling in the moonlight, and a love vaster than the sea and higher than the stars, all in the same paragraph, you probably want to tone it down.

[inquartata02]

If there are also sparkling amethyst eyes, rippling muscles coiling in the moonlight, and a love vaster than the sea and higher than the stars, all in the same paragraph,

...is it getting warm in here?

Kidding!

[jackkel dragon]

I will cry if anyone accuses me of purple prose. My prose is so sparse, even I don't know what's going on sometimes.

Now, as for me writing a Mary Sue... *looks at Sophia Hawke GIF* ...yeah.