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[Raonar]

Merilsell wrote...

So sand, Mexico, Italy during the Renaissance, it often rains and the air always has the scent of flowers. Thanks...it's enough to make a picture of it for me. Well the scene will be Zevran's fade dream ( I write a new one because I don't like the in-game one much), so there won't be many happy or flowery images anyway. I want it dark and despairing, it is about Rinna after all. *rubs the hands in glee*

What?...I like to torture characters...it's an author hobby of mine *whistles*

You probably never read what my DC went through . It was bad enough that his brain shut down altogether and he would have died if the demon had been defeated without someone coming to smack him out of it.

[ZerbanDaGreat1]

Hay guys, guess what? The next chapter of the fic is out, and it has Zevran going all Shadow of the Colossus on Flemeth's dragon form. I am all about the fanfic chop suey.

Modifié par ZerbanDaGreat1, 28 mai 2011 - 02:26 .

[Raonar]

More like going The Calling on Flemeth, since Duncan did something similar to a high dragon in the deeps, only he stabbed it in the head instead of ripping the wing off.

Modifié par Raonar, 29 mai 2011 - 07:59 .

[ZerbanDaGreat1]

But isn't that the finishing move from the game? Anyway, it's more like a successful version of Riordan's plan.

It also had a shout-out to Final Fantasy 12, an inexplicably underrated game in my opinion.

[Raonar]

Duncan didn't manage to kill it with that. He only damaged it enough to bring it down to the ground. Genevieve finished it off.

Modifié par Raonar, 29 mai 2011 - 10:08 .

[Merilsell]

Sigh...do you know that too? Chapters that don't want to be written?

I swear I have the next chapter after the actual one I'm writing on planned out to the tiniest detail...even the dialogue is crystal clear in my head.

Unfortunately it is the exact opposite for the actual one. I know what I want but NOT how to get there. Even the dialogue which is one of my strengths is completely eluding me. I simply find it hard to get into Leliana's head and to write from her POV beyond some funny, girlish lines. I know that she is more than just that. I'm working on her backstory atm to give her more development and I struggle to figure her out completely.

So here is what after replaying Leliana's song the impression I have about her: Do I see her right when I say that the vision of hers was just an excuse to leave the cloister? I mean she leaped at the chance to go with the GW in Lothering after all. After Marjolaine and what happened I feel she wants to make amend and do good and sees the traveling with the GW and their fight against the Blight as the biggest chance to do exactly that. Doing good to forget about her old life and find her own happiness on the way. But to me it rather seems as if she is running away from it...until the past comes and gets her. It is somehow glaring how often Marjolaine mentioning that they are the same. I see some similarities too here minus being a scheming bit*h, but I do think that she never can escape fully from what she was. She has too much fun with all the fighting, traveling etc to be a cloistered sister all her life.

Is there something I miss or do I understand her at least a bit? I know the last bit is open to interpretion, so I guess Lenya will have "hardened" Leliana in the end due to those reasons. You can also telling her that she has found peace in the Chantry...but honestly I can't imagine Lenya would do that. It would rather be: "Stop running away, suck it up princess and accept what you are!" (Yes, Lenya is such a sweetheart at times, lol)

Gawd, I want back into Lenya's head *pouts* It feels like home compared to this difficult bard. Lol. I have no problems to grasp the motives of the other characters, oddly enough.

[Raonar]

Merilsell wrote...

Sigh...do you know that too? Chapters that don't want to be written?

I swear I have the next chapter after the actual one I'm writing on planned out to the tiniest detail...even the dialogue is crystal clear in my head.

Unfortunately it is the exact opposite for the actual one. I know what I want but NOT how to get there. Even the dialogue which is one of my strengths is completely eluding me. I simply find it hard to get into Leliana's head and to write from her POV beyond some funny, girlish lines. I know that she is more than just that. I'm working on her backstory atm to give her more development and I struggle to figure her out completely.

So here is what after replaying Leliana's song the impression I have about her: Do I see her right when I say that the vision of hers was just an excuse to leave the cloister? I mean she leaped at the chance to go with the GW in Lothering after all. After Marjolaine and what happened I feel she wants to make amend and do good and sees the traveling with the GW and their fight against the Blight as the biggest chance to do exactly that. Doing good to forget about her old life and find her own happiness on the way. But to me it rather seems as if she is running away from it...until the past comes and gets her. It is somehow glaring how often Marjolaine mentioning that they are the same. I see some similarities too here minus being a scheming bit*h, but I do think that she never can escape fully from what she was. She has too much fun with all the fighting, traveling etc to be a cloistered sister all her life.

Is there something I miss or do I understand her at least a bit? I know the last bit is open to interpretion, so I guess Lenya will have "hardened" Leliana in the end due to those reasons. You can also telling her that she has found peace in the Chantry...but honestly I can't imagine Lenya would do that. It would rather be: "Stop running away, suck it up princess and accept what you are!" (Yes, Lenya is such a sweetheart at times, lol)

Gawd, I want back into Lenya's head *pouts* It feels like home compared to this difficult bard. Lol. I have no problems to grasp the motives of the other characters, oddly enough.

Hmm. The first thing you should realize about her vision is that she doesn't lie about it, at least the dream and how she interprets everything. I doubt she'd do so even after sleeping with a male warden. That said, there is also the matter of the rose she speaks of which, in a female warden playthrough that romances Alistair, is revealed to really be special, since it's the one he gives you as a gift (and ,thus, probably has some ever-frshness charm since it can be ages before he even gives it to the PC). So no, I don't think she's lying about the vision, especially with the rose which she sees as real life proof of its validity, or at least that she should do something.

Also, I don't think she's just running away when she embarks on the quest with the wardens. If she wanted to run away, she could have done it in a much less life threatening way. As for wanting to go back to her old life, "The Game" can't really be played against the darkspawn. I really do think she just wants to help and that the friction with the lay sisters and the brothers wouldn't have been enough to make her want to leave. Plus, she could have always just left for the Free Marches or something, like so many other people.

Also, if you refuse her help, she leaves the Cloister anyway, to help in some other fashion, so no, I don't think the Blight (ergo, the end of the world as we know it) is just an excuse for her.

The Leliana that wants to hunt people down and such only resurfaces if the Warden encourages it in her quest. Leliana really is shocked at finding out Marjolaine was after her all that time, which makes me think she really did want to leave that life behind for good or she would have kept some contacts or something.

If you want something besides girlish lines, check the wiki for her talks with Wynne, among other things.

EDIT:

You could also write something in regards to her stories and how Lenya or the others liked/loved/hated/thought they were stupid, plus her reaction to it and whether or not she began to think about things better (like how sadistic the gods of Alindra's tale are for dooming her to cry stars for almost-eternity instead of just making her and her soldier part of the same constellation or something).

Modifié par Raonar, 04 juin 2011 - 07:29 .

[Maria13]

I've come to the conclusion that Leliana in DA:O was an Orlesian/Chantry spy, sent to keep an eye on what was left of the Fereldan Grey Wardens... And assisting them in the good fight as far as was possible.

[Merilsell]

Yeah, thanks, Raonor. I have a specific scene for it in mind, however. An ambush of assassins on camp while the Warden's and co are away and in the Tower and all that jazz. Makes the revelation of her backstory to the others later on all the sweeter (read: more awkward), methinks.

I didn't mean that she wanted her old life back, it is far from it, actually. But it catches always up with her, reminding of what she was. Sure you can influence her in one or the other direction as Warden and while being a chantry sister surely was nice for its quiet life full of contemplation, I don't see Lenya telling her to go back to it. Doing good is what Lel wants, yes, but as the guardian in the gauntlet stated not entirely without personal gain.

"In Orlais you were *someone* In Lothering you feared you'd lose yourself become a drab sister and disappear. When the brothers and sisters critizied you for what you professed, you were hurt but you also reveled in it. It made you feel special and you enjoyed the attention, even if it was negative."

I find that quote most interesting, tbh, and I see her as a bit of a glory hunter, even if the word is a bit too harsh.

As for the rose, oh I know that, believe me. In my story Alistair had let Morrigan conserve the rose with magic to keep it fresh and he even had the rose talk with Leliana.

Alistair: A rose? In Lothering? Are you sure?
Leliana: Yes, why are you asking?
Alistair: Oh...no reason, really. Gotta go now and do...stuff. *flees*
Leliana: O__o

xD

[Corker]

If you talk to the bartender at Dane's Refuge in Lothering, he'll mention that Leliana would come in about once a week or so, order a glass of wine and drink it by herself, looking out the window.

I don't think anything is keeping her in Lothering except herself, and perhaps a dab of fear about Marjolaine. She hasn't taken orders, so she's free to go whenever she likes. With her bard skills, she'd be fine out on the roads.

Each of the LIs, I try to sum up what I think they're looking for in a word. IMO: Alistair wants to be wanted; Zevran wants to be valued; Leliana wants to connect, deeply. She thought Marjolaine was her soul mate. When that was revealed to be an enormous lie (or case of self-deception, which she appears to be *very* good at), she latched onto the Chantry/the Maker. She formed a personal connection to the divine much different from the canonical church teachings. Her romance dialogue also points at this desire to feel an eternal and enduring love.

She's a performer; she loves an audience, and she loves to control an audience. That's what performers try to do and it's generally harmless enough; as a bard, though, it becomes about outright manipulation for one's own ends. Hardening seems to revolve around this issue: how comfortable she is with manipulating others.

When I write hardened Leliana, I'm always conscious of whether or not she's 'performing' for whomever she's talking to in the scene. If she is, the internal dialogue will reflect how she's controlling her body language and tone, and how she's reading her target's. It's a constant Game she's playing, the moves expressed in the tilt of the head or the depth of a sigh. I have a bit of a hard time determining who she really is under there - but then, I'm not sure if she knows, either.

[Maria13]

Corker wrote...

If you talk to the bartender at Dane's Refuge in Lothering, he'll mention that Leliana would come in about once a week or so, order a glass of wine and drink it by herself, looking out the window.

Ha! So she was keeping her eyes open for stragglers from Ostagar, possibly even Grey Wardens...

[Raonar]

Maria13 wrote...

Corker wrote...

If you talk to the bartender at Dane's Refuge in Lothering, he'll mention that Leliana would come in about once a week or so, order a glass of wine and drink it by herself, looking out the window.

Ha! So she was keeping her eyes open for stragglers from Ostagar, possibly even Grey Wardens...

Only this means that Leliana had picked up this habit way before the darkspawn even showed up and people started to go to Ostagar, so this doesn't really work as an argument in favor of the idea she was a spy meant to keep an eye on the wardens.

[Maria13]

But we don't know when she started doing this.... Preparing for Ostagar would have taken a fair few months and she may have received her brief to keep her eyes and ears open when said preparations began, when Cailan was flirting with Celene.

[Raonar]

But then why stay in Lothering, in the Chantry, and do absolutely nothing but ramble about beliefs and the like? It's not like that small Village Chantry, or the Chantry in general, is a fount of political intrigue knowledge, Dragon Age 2 Seeker order aside.

Plus I'm guessing the Guardian would have said something if Leliana really was a spy all those years, instead of picking on her supposed liking for attention.

Speaking of which, I'm pretty sure someone who went through a certain sort of abuse at the hands of guards would want anything BUT attention for a while, hence her seclusion.

[Corker]

...I just saw it as her listening to the call of the journey, something to show that she wasn't 100% content as a Chantry sister.

If she thinks she can do adequate surveillance with one hour a week, she's doing a really bad job of being a spy!

[Raonar]

Plus that she never bothers changing her accent while she's speaking.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Found this today:



Thought I'd share.

[DreGregoire]

Here's my take on what I learned about Leliana playing Dragon Age.

Leliana wasn't a spy for anybody when we meet her and she never took any vows to become a true chantry sister (neat conversation with her about it in game:).) She was in hiding after the traumatizing events she had been through. Her world had been shaken to it's core, when she had her "Dream" she saw it as a chance to uplift herself; Then she becomes your companion. My guess is she used her chantry ties and her sacred ashes ties and her blight defeater ties and her talents to procure the position she has at the end of DA2

@shadow. That guy is insane and his statistics are suspect. But there is alot of smut on Fanfiction.net. LOL

Modifié par DreGregoire, 14 juin 2011 - 01:15 .

[Maria13]

IMHO, it can be written either way... She was converted during captivity and is exaggerating somewhat about her mystical calling, but not lying... She is a bard when all is said and done.

As a flimsy aside, the British Secret Service had a penchant for recruiting writers... Why? They were intelligent, malleable, naturally curious and foot loose...

Modifié par Maria13, 14 juin 2011 - 04:58 .

[Merilsell]

Thanks for all the input. After three agonizing weeks of staring on my screen I have finally finish my chapter with her POV (and more) Wow, I feel as if reaching the top of a mountain now, or something. Now I'm writing Zevran, but it is only for a brief introspective, because I hadn't dealt much with his character so far. Time to change that, because he is actually so much fun to write, even when all broody and silent. He is a good observer of situations and moods, after all.

[Maria13]

I do like writing Zev...

[Merilsell]

Heh, I found out that I frikkin LOVE it. Much better than Leliana, really. Poor, poor Alistair, but Zevran mocking him is soooo much fun to write. Of course this wasn't planned, but it *is* Zevran, after all.

And just as talking over the weather, Zevran declared his interest for Lenya at the end, leaving Alistair stunted and raging behind.

Zevran: "BTW, your fellow Warden? Worth the tricky challenge. *turns and leaves, whistling*
Alistair: Ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff...........

xD

I do love me some evil Zev, really

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Yeah, but Alistair doesn't get Zev's implications half the time...unless he comes straight out and says it.

Alistair: "Worth the tricky challenge...? What challenge? Have you two taken up playing chess or something?"
Zev: *sigh* "She is like an Antivan puzzle box, one must learn to unlock?"
Alistair: "...so not chess?"
Zev: "...it is in fact chess, my friend, you caught me. I am at this moment determining how to manoeuvre around a knight to reach the fair queen."
Alistair: "Ohh, you gotta be careful of those knights. They're *sneaky*."
Zev: "Quite so. But not too bright, I think. Unable to act upon what's right in front of them, yes?"
Alistair: "...you're smirking at me again."
Zev: "I cannot imagine why, my friend."

[Raonar]

Hmm, i'm not sure even Alistair is THAT dense. While I don't consider him a genius or anything, I did get the feeling most of his manner was Obfuscating Stupidity.

Plus, I doubt someone who asks the Warden about licking lamposts in winter would fail to get Zervan's meaning in the snippet you put up, especially when he knows the Antivan is the libertine elf that he is.

[Merilsell]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Yeah, but Alistair doesn't get Zev's implications half the time...unless he comes straight out and says it.

Alistair: "Worth the tricky challenge...? What challenge? Have you two taken up playing chess or something?"
Zev: *sigh* "She is like an Antivan puzzle box, one must learn to unlock?"
Alistair: "...so not chess?"
Zev: "...it is in fact chess, my friend, you caught me. I am at this moment determining how to manoeuvre around a knight to reach the fair queen."
Alistair: "Ohh, you gotta be careful of those knights. They're *sneaky*."
Zev: "Quite so. But not too bright, I think. Unable to act upon what's right in front of them, yes?"
Alistair: "...you're smirking at me again."
Zev: "I cannot imagine why, my friend."

You are the master of the Zev, love it. <3

And Alistair did get the message after all. He is just too busy to keep these thoughts at bay where he is strangling the elf to answer, actually. Considering that Alistair will get the girl in the end, he is the last who will laugh. So I can let have Zevran a bit of fun too, no? It is way too delightful to let it out, especially Alistair panicking when Zev is hitting on him.

Like this:

[...]There had been a squall of overly dramatic words, but Alistair's brain stopped working after hearing one in particular. “H-handsome?” He wriggled in his place, his voice pitched unwanted to a hysterical shrill.

He was liking this less and less the minute.

“Why, yes.” Zevran blinked, all innocent. The smirk tugged in the corner of his mouth, however, gave easily away that he wasn't. Enjoying himself, more like. ”Rugged good looks, quick wit, manly shoulders. Has no one told you that before? What a waste.” The elf fell into his prior thoughtful pose, rubbing his chin with his fingers. “Getting you to hop boarders would be a quite delightful challenge, I imagine.”

“Hop. Boarders?” Now it was Alistair's turn to blink, even though for entirely different reasons. “Well, err.... I have never been outside of Ferelden, that is true.”

This was what the elf meant, right? He was confused, scared even.

“And so innocent, as well.” Zevran clasped his hands together in delight. “Ah, how tempting it would be to taint you...”

“I'm already tainted, thank y –“ Alistair stopped in mid-sentence, staring bewildered at the smiling man in front of him. “Wait, are you saying that you...that I...and...you...and...” He didn't came any further, for his brain failed momentarily to work.[...]

Modifié par Merilsell, 16 juin 2011 - 01:23 .