10369 réponses à ce sujet

[Merilsell]

Corker wrote...
I figure I'm pretty articulate.  If my story wasn't clear, and an OOC explanation on top of that *still* doesn't satisfy you, nothing I can say is going to do any good and we're just going to yell at each other.  I got two small kids and a full time job with a commute in DC traffic; I don't need any more stress, thanks.  You can yell in this room all by yourself, I'll be elsewhere.

WORD. (Except for the kids, they are *just* at work and the DC-traffic)

I found Leliana fairly hard to write and literally had to research her character to find what motivates her. Others than that...hmm Sten's voice a bit. Or better say his body language/expression, sometimes. Surprisingly I had no probs with writing Wynne as expected before. Then again, I haven't written from her PoV yet. Oh teh horrorz.

Fave to write is obviously Team Snark (Alistair, Zevran, Shale and Morrigan) ...because I love how they take over my brain with their banter and comments without even trying. Morrigan bickering with Alistair is always a joy to write. Or Shale's cynical view on the world. Or her bird hate. Or Zevran and Alistair talking. The possiblity for GLORIOUS is endless with these four chars. Really.

[erynnar]

Merilsell wrote...

Corker wrote...
I figure I'm pretty articulate.  If my story wasn't clear, and an OOC explanation on top of that *still* doesn't satisfy you, nothing I can say is going to do any good and we're just going to yell at each other.  I got two small kids and a full time job with a commute in DC traffic; I don't need any more stress, thanks.  You can yell in this room all by yourself, I'll be elsewhere.

WORD. (Except for the kids, they are *just* at work and the DC-traffic)

I found Leliana fairly hard to write and literally had to research her character to find what motivates her. Others than that...hmm Sten's voice a bit. Or better say his body language/expression, sometimes. Surprisingly I had no probs with writing Wynne as expected before. Then again, I haven't written from her PoV yet. Oh teh horrorz.

Fave to write is obviously Team Snark (Alistair, Zevran, Shale and Morrigan) ...because I love how they take over my brain with their banter and comments without even trying. Morrigan bickering with Alistair is always a joy to write. Or Shale's cynical view on the world. Or her bird hate. Or Zevran and Alistair talking. The possiblity for GLORIOUS is endless with these four chars. Really.

Oh I love writing Morri and Ali banter. I can't wait until I get to the scene where he teases about her nose looking like Flemeth's and she turns into a giant spider and pummels him to the ground.

[Corker]

Thought about it some more and wanted to add...

...that was for, as mousestalker specified, criticism I find to be mean-spirited or wrong. I try to divide concrit/advice into categories:

1. Things I already know are a problem/advice I agree with
2. Advice that would be hard to follow (but is correct)
3. Advice that would be bad to follow (it's just wrong)
4. Trolls

I'm willing and eager to engage in discussion on the first kind. You want to tell me how to write Ariane better? I'm all ears! Suggestions welcome!

The second kind, I am always working to drop my defenses. It's easy to try and brush off #2 as #3, especially if it's delivered with all the tact and grace of a bull elephant seal on the beach. But that's where the real growth opportunities are.

The third kind, smile and ignore, possibly with a polite and noncommittal reply. ("That's interesting, I'll have to think about it.") I *may* be tempted to try to explain. ("Well, the battle isn't supposed to be realistic. This is sort of a homage to the pulp adventure novels, so it's more Indiana Jones than Saving Private Ryan.")

The fourth kind, just plain ignore per my first post. For my purposes, trolls tear down without helping to build up ("You suck") or, even if their advice is good, it's delivered in a way that triggers a fight response in me. I may, much later, try and *take* the advice, but my personal goal is to *not* engage in back-and-forth.

[erynnar]

Corker wrote...

Thought about it some more and wanted to add...

...that was for, as mousestalker specified, criticism I find to be mean-spirited or wrong. I try to divide concrit/advice into categories:

1. Things I already know are a problem/advice I agree with
2. Advice that would be hard to follow (but is correct)
3. Advice that would be bad to follow (it's just wrong)
4. Trolls

I'm willing and eager to engage in discussion on the first kind. You want to tell me how to write Ariane better? I'm all ears! Suggestions welcome!

The second kind, I am always working to drop my defenses. It's easy to try and brush off #2 as #3, especially if it's delivered with all the tact and grace of a bull elephant seal on the beach. But that's where the real growth opportunities are.

The third kind, smile and ignore, possibly with a polite and noncommittal reply. ("That's interesting, I'll have to think about it.") I *may* be tempted to try to explain. ("Well, the battle isn't supposed to be realistic. This is sort of a homage to the pulp adventure novels, so it's more Indiana Jones than Saving Private Ryan.")

The fourth kind, just plain ignore per my first post. For my purposes, trolls tear down without helping to build up ("You suck") or, even if their advice is good, it's delivered in a way that triggers a fight response in me. I may, much later, try and *take* the advice, but my personal goal is to *not* engage in back-and-forth.

You are as beautiful as you are wise.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

mousestalker wrote...

This raises a meta issue that has been discussed before. How do you handle reviews that you perceive as unnecessarily harsh? Do you selectively reply to the bits that seem merited, do you fire back in anger, do you ignore, take out mafia contracts on the reviewers' dogs or what?

To date I haven't really seen anything terribly harsh. Nor do I want to. I'd probably ignore or say something blandly polite, but I don't know for sure.

I've never received any reviews I'd consider harsh...maybe I've been lucky. Any time someone's called me on something it hasn't been insulting so much as observational, and often some PMs with the reviewer helped me come away with a better idea of how to do things Next Time or how to fix a spot of lore conflict. People are allowed to say they don't understand or they disagree or think something could have been done better. Sometimes they're right, even if they're the lone voice in a sea of praise.

If I got a review that did its level best to rip my work apart (however politely) I'm sure I'd be quite upset for a while but I'd get over it. If there were questions I'd answer them, if I considered any of the criticisms valid I'd try to take them on board, but otherwise thank them and move on. I wouldn't fire back, repost it elsewhere for debate or send in the cavalry. Prefer to deal with stuff like that on my own. I'll bait trolls from time to time, but not interested in flame wars.

[Bekkael]

*peeks in*

Hello, lovely writers.   (waves at Erynnar!) I came to lurk and see what accomplished ff writers chat about.

I thought it would be rude to sit in the corner and lurk during the conversation without introducing myself first.

So, I'm Rebekah, (aka EmbersOfAmber), and I love all things Dragon Age, and adore reading fan fiction. I've dabbled in various fandoms over the years, but DA is my absolute favorite. (I like the LOTR fandom too, but there are too many canon police for my taste.) I'm 37, married w/ kids, and gaming, reading/writing keep me from going nucking futs.

Now that that's out of the way... *goes back to lurking*

Modifié par Bekkael, 18 juillet 2011 - 06:46 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Welcome!

[Corker]

Hiya!

Bekkael wrote...

 I came to lurk and see what accomplished ff writers chat about.

1. Complain that fanfic.net (FF) stats are down.

2. Discuss word counts

3. Announce when FF stats are back up.

4. Talk about reviews, how we love them but that's not why we write.

5. Complain that FF stats are down.

6. Complain about muses.

7. Debate the worth of smut or erotica in fanfiction.

8. Defend the hobby to outsiders and trolls.

9. Get feedback on whether or not having X do Y is in-character.

10. Get help with trivia about canon.

11. Complain that FF stats are down.

...did I miss any, y'all?  :innocent:

Edit: Of course, 12. Mary Sue and Sueism. 

Modifié par Corker, 18 juillet 2011 - 12:40 .

[mousestalker]

So, are the ff.net stats working?

:innocent:

[maxernst]

@Corker...great summary of 399 pages of posts!

[hoorayforicecream]

So... I'm not much of a writer (only one fanfiction story to my name), but I'm always curious about others' thought processes. So here are a bunch of questions.

What's an "accomplished" fanfiction writer?

Also, do most of you have an editorial process? How do you decide what works and what doesn't? Or do you bother?

Who do you write your stories for? Does this have an effect on what you write and/or how you write?

[mousestalker]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

So... I'm not much of a writer (only one fanfiction story to my name), but I'm always curious about others' thought processes. So here are a bunch of questions.

What's an "accomplished" fanfiction writer?

Also, do most of you have an editorial process? How do you decide what works and what doesn't? Or do you bother?

Who do you write your stories for? Does this have an effect on what you write and/or how you write?

The two ladies above my last post are both accomplished fanfic writers. :happy:

As for editorial process, I'm mostly a 'slop 'n go' kind of writer. So I edit some. I do continuously proofread and make spelling corrections even after I post. I write three types of fanfic: Cracky lulzy stuff where the only thing I worry too much about is if it has enough laffs. I also write short angsty pieces that no besides me likes. And lastly I write some conventional stuff. The last two I do try to see that everything is character appropriate and the canon is adhered to.

I write for me. I love getting glowing reviews, but in the end, I write because I must.

[Bekkael]

Corker wrote...

1. Complain that fanfic.net (FF) stats are down.

2. Discuss word counts

3. Announce when FF stats are back up.

4. Talk about reviews, how we love them but that's not why we write.

5. Complain that FF stats are down.

6. Complain about muses.

7. Debate the worth of smut or erotica in fanfiction.

8. Defend the hobby to outsiders and trolls.

9. Get feedback on whether or not having X do Y is in-character.

10. Get help with trivia about canon.

11. Complain that FF stats are down.

...did I miss any, y'all?  :innocent:

Edit: Of course, 12. Mary Sue and Sueism. 

If  #7 is found to be unworthy, I think I should just slink away now.  I don't write anything of substance, just silly romance and gratuitous smut...

The rest of the list sounds fascinating- especially the stats page! My favorite. <3

(Thanks for the welcome!)

[Lakhi]

Ah number 7, where would this all be without you. Granted I don't see myself writing it anytime soon, buuuuut yeah

[Corker]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
What's an "accomplished" fanfiction writer?

If I had to guess as the colloquial meaning, I'd say a fanfic writer who has name recognition and/or a large audience.  But that's very subjective, depending on how you define a community.

Personally, I'd say one who has achieved a goal they set for themselves. 

Also, do most of you have an editorial process? How do you decide what works and what doesn't? Or do you bother?

For most of what I write, which these days is porn, I'm generally editing as I go, at a sentence or paragraph level.  I feel a compulsion to update, move the product, now, now, now.  As a result, I've noticed some fairly forehead-slapping typos after posting.  On the other hand, I have a good ear - I'm a poet, musician, I learn languages easily and am a bit of a mimic.  My descriptive prose may be sparse to non-existent and my action sequences usually need work, but my talent is for in-character dialogue.  So I can kind of get away with it (I think).

For my longer, non-porn pieces, I do edit.  My first fanfic, which was supposed to be a personal momento that I got persuaded to post online, I read and reread and tweaked before releasing the thing in one fell swoop.  My adventure serial, I posted to my personal blog, let sit for a day or two, then returned to reread and revise.

My revisions are very macro - more of this, less of that, describe this more, take out that pointless dialogue.  I am not to the point of going line by line to make my prose the tightest, tautest it can be.  I'm again going mostly by ear, informed by genre fiction I have read.  If it sounds about right, it can fly.

Who do you write your stories for? Does this have an effect on what you write and/or how you write?

Oh, yes.  This has been my favorite part of the process.  I love seeing the many different ways I can sell out.  Well, as much as one can sell out when there's no actual money involved.

Writing fanfic is, to me, on the border between live performance and traditional authorship.  I am very much aware of my audience and very willing to pander to them, especially for the porn.  I may not share a kink, but I can read a few related stories, get an idea of what the payoff is/what the reader wants, and do more of the same.  I've written what I considered to be hopelessly cliched romance scenes, and then written more of them when commenters ate them up and demanded "MOAR." 

Edited to add: Although I don't write unless there's *some* hook for me.  In the case of the romance story, the prompt was for an alternate universe I was dying to write.  If the price was terribly OOC barbarian Alistair, then so be it!

Now the adventure serials, those are because I want to write them.  If I wanted to maximize my page views and reviews, I'd do it differently - I wouldn't do a teen-rated novella with some minor DLC characters, a Mahariel Warden, and the only romance/UST a single abortive attempt at a kiss. 

It doesn't get many reviews in its home here on the CC thread, or on my poor neglected Dreamwidth account.  But I got enough positive remarks from folks on my flist to keep me encouraged.  And I'd be a bloody liar if I said I'd keep writing it if every single chapter sank into the ether without as much as a single "Like" on my flist.  It's communication, and if no one is listening, I'd go back to my Anglo-Saxon poetry and medieval translations - those, I'll perform someday, so I know they'll have an audience. 

Modifié par Corker, 19 juillet 2011 - 02:03 .

[maxernst]

mousestalker wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

So... I'm not much of a writer (only one fanfiction story to my name), but I'm always curious about others' thought processes. So here are a bunch of questions.

What's an "accomplished" fanfiction writer?

Also, do most of you have an editorial process? How do you decide what works and what doesn't? Or do you bother?

Who do you write your stories for? Does this have an effect on what you write and/or how you write?

The two ladies above my last post are both accomplished fanfic writers. :happy:

As for editorial process, I'm mostly a 'slop 'n go' kind of writer. So I edit some. I do continuously proofread and make spelling corrections even after I post. I write three types of fanfic: Cracky lulzy stuff where the only thing I worry too much about is if it has enough laffs. I also write short angsty pieces that no besides me likes. And lastly I write some conventional stuff. The last two I do try to see that everything is character appropriate and the canon is adhered to.

I write for me. I love getting glowing reviews, but in the end, I write because I must.

My basic approach is to write and then go to bed and edit it the next day before sending it out.  I still end up with mistakes... I would really like to go back and edit my posts but whenever I've tried to do it on fanfiction.net, I end up deleting the chapter and adding it again and I don't want to pester my subscribers with multiple notices about a chapter when I'm just correcting a spelling error or inserting a missing word.  So my fanfiction.net stories have errors that I know about and haven't corrected. 

I write my stories for my own amusement, but it's always nice to get positive feedback.  As far as what works and what doesn't, it's mostly just how it feels to me, although I was a worried how the ending to Morrigan's Daughter would be received and was gratified that the readers who commented on it believed it.  The only criticisms I've received have been very gentle and delivered amid praise, but I don't have many readers.  I doubt I qualify as "accomplished", though.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

maxernst wrote...
I would really like to go back and edit my posts but whenever I've tried to do it on fanfiction.net, I end up deleting the chapter and adding it again and I don't want to pester my subscribers with multiple notices about a chapter when I'm just correcting a spelling error or inserting a missing word.

Isn't there a 'replace chapter' option anymore? I use that all the time for brushing up small errors--often ones FF.Net introduced by uploading the chapter in the first place.

hoorayforicecream wrote...

What's an "accomplished" fanfiction writer?

** @ mousestalker. Thanks

@hoorayforicecream, I'd say an accomplished anything would be one who's been doing it for a while and deemed sufficiently skilled, or whose work is popular/memorable with its audience.

It's probably as subjective as what is considered to be a good fanfiction writer, or even a good fanfiction. The ability to write well and have an excellent technical grasp of language/grammar is not the same as the ability to spin a gripping tale.

Also, do most of you have an editorial process? How do you decide what works and what doesn't? Or do you bother?

For some fanfics past I've had a couple of beta readers, who were awesome. Currently I self edit, which basically comprises 'read, re-read, edit as required'. Inevitably, however, one or two errors still make it into the published chapter and I end up editing against afterwards. XD

How do I decide what works and what doesn't...if I'm really enjoying a section I'm writing and feel a little glow of writerly pride when I go back and read it, then hopefully it works for others. If I giggle at my own jokes, that tends to end up being good--for some reason my readers share my sense of humour. Or...Zevran's sense of humour, anyway

I don't know how much of my stuff doesn't work...if it doesn't satisfy me I do a rewrite, unless I've been stuck on it too long to delay further and settle with 'good enough' to keep the story moving. Those chapters aren't usually stellar, but they're not bad I guess.

I suppose I'm like Corker and play it by ear. If it sounds good to me I'll use it, even if I didn't intend for the story to go in a particular direction.

Who do you write your stories for? Does this have an effect on what you write and/or how you write?

If it's a contest, prize or request I'm writing for a particular audience and want to cater to what I think they would like. This may involve me looking up subject matter I'm not familiar with to get a good result. Like...I wrote for DA Dwarf competition a while back. I'd never written anything dwarfy, hadn't done a full play of a dwarven Warden and didn't know half the origin-specific stuff that happens for them in in the game. I did a lot of youtube hunting and wiki searching to find my answers, since I didn't have the toolset at the time. I didn't win the competition, but I was really happy with the fic I produced anyway. I even seriously considered paIring the characters Brosca/Zev, Aeducan/Alistair, since two of the judges have their canon dwarf pairings that way. I thought it would be too 'fanservice' though, and my muse rebelled XD

Otherwise I write for myself primarily, and the fandom audience second. I love creative writing. I do it for my own entertainment, but if other people like it then that's awesome.

[DreGregoire]

What you only write for your fans second, Shadow? *sniffs in disgust*

LOL. Okay I admit I write for myself as well. It is nice when other people enjoy your writing. Essentially I write fanfiction to express the impact of the game on me and how in each game I played as a different person who viewed things differently. I always find it amazing that the specific events aside there is so much wiggle room with dragon age to allow our creativity to flow.

Modifié par DreGregoire, 19 juillet 2011 - 03:34 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

DreGregoire wrote...

What you only write for your fans second, Shadow? *sniffs in disgust*

It's a step above kittens, puppies and chocolate

Hmm...come to think of it maybe I should put chocolate second...fans who send me chocolate third, and fans who don't last.

[DreGregoire]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

DreGregoire wrote...

What you only write for your fans second, Shadow? *sniffs in disgust*

It's a step above kittens, puppies and chocolate

Hmm...come to think of it maybe I should put chocolate second...fans who send me chocolate third, and fans who don't last.

Chocolate always comes first! I don't share my chocolate though. I'm selfish that way. LOL

[Bekkael]

I think I might be feeling a bit of guilt. A fourteen year old just favorited most several of my raciest stories. Is it just the mom in me objecting? I understand curiosity and such, as I was an exceedingly curious teen myself, but I would feel so much better if people sixteen or older were my only readers.

What are the opinions of other M-rated fic writers? Do you feel responsible when kids read your clearly marked violent/sexual/adult content stories?

Honestly, I used to post my adult stories on AdultFF.net, until I realized there were more erotic tales on FFN. After that, I just put everything on FFN for the convienence of having it all in one place, and AFFN has a lousy site too.

Thoughts?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Bekkael wrote...

[...]

Thoughts?

TBH I don't even look at details like a reader's age. Presuming your reader isn't lying about it (I lie about my year of birth online since it's such a common 'Prove you are who you say you are!' question for banks etc--though granted I go older rather than younger ) I guess I'd feel a little perturbed, but not responsible. If they're determined enough they'll get their kicks somewhere.

I'd probably just report the user if I was worrying about the content of a fic being read by someone underage, because I'm mean like that what's the point of a rating system if the site doesn't enforce it's own rules?

(I'm surprised the site allows users who have stated their age as under 18 to access M+ content, actually. Not that it can't be circumvented, but still.)

[Sushifer]

Hullo, all!

Complete newb here, who always always always manages to be late to the party with games. I mean, I don't even own my own copy of ME2 yet, let alone DA2. I've been lurking around the boards for a short while and thought it was high time I emerged from my shadowy little nook and introduced myself to you lovely lot.

I've been writing for, ooh, around six years now, with no intention of stopping, ever. I've loved plenty of stories besides my own, but Dragon Age is the first that's inspired me to write fanfiction. I'd never even considered dabbling in fic beforehand, yet now I've got pages of DA related snippets and vignettes that seem to be growing faster than my own stuff. They breed when I'm not looking, I swear!

They're reaching such a critical mass that I just know I'm going to end up fitting them all into a coherent story pretty soon, and it's probably going to be a playthrough fic of some kind. But I keep putting it off until I can think of some new twists or sub-plots to clothe the basic bones of the canon game plot. I don't want to just rehash the same old events everyone's familiar with. I might be writing for myself, but I want to at least try and make it interesting for other people to read! Then again, another part of me is insisting that I just try to start writing the pesky thing and trust my brain to spawn some nice threads as I go along, as plunging straight in generally generates more ideas for me than sitting down, specifically trying to plan. What works best for you guys?

Anyway. Hope to see you all around the boards, hopefully with some fic of my own to share. Keep writing

Modifié par Sushifer, 19 juillet 2011 - 03:30 .

[Addai]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

So... I'm not much of a writer (only one fanfiction story to my name), but I'm always curious about others' thought processes. So here are a bunch of questions.

What's an "accomplished" fanfiction writer?

  No idea.  Do you have fun at it?  Are some people able to read it without cringing?  That would be my measurements.  I don't like to take the whole thing too seriously.

Also, do most of you have an editorial process? How do you decide what works and what doesn't? Or do you bother?

I definitely have an editorial process.  On my longer story, I have the entire story blocked out.  For each chapter, I spend about a week mentally blocking out the beats, so that when I write I basically know what's going to go down on the page.  I will often re-read portions and do small edits, and re-read the whole when it's done.  I don't like to waste my beta reader's time, so I don't send it to her until I'm pretty sure I've got the final version.  Depending on her feedback and how confident I am, I could spend another few days or week until I feel ready to publish.  Some of this is re-reading and some of it is just mentally running through the story to make sure everything fits and there's continuity, the pacing is right, etc.  I do another proofread before I publish.  Of course, I usually find those last errors just after it's gone up. 

How you decide what works- gut, basically.  I don't think it's possible to predict how something's going to be received.  You have to like it yourself and let the chips fall where they may.  For the canon characters, I just researched them and read everything the game writers wrote in their voice and about them, so that I can try to decide how they would react in the new situations I'm putting them in.  Dev posts describing the character's motivations are really golden.

Who do you write your stories for? Does this have an effect on what you write and/or how you write?

Myself mostly, but I admit I probably adapt little things to my known audience.  I assume I'm writing for DA players, so this means I try not just to re-write the game story.  If game events happen, it's usually off-page.  I hardly ever (won't say never) quote the game.

Modifié par Addai67, 19 juillet 2011 - 05:29 .

[Bekkael]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...
TBH I don't even look at details like a reader's age. Presuming your reader isn't lying about it (I lie about my year of birth online since it's such a common 'Prove you are who you say you are!' question for banks etc--though granted I go older rather than younger ) I guess I'd feel a little perturbed, but not responsible. If they're determined enough they'll get their kicks somewhere.

I'd probably just report the user if I was worrying about the content of a fic being read by someone underage, because I'm mean like that what's the point of a rating system if the site doesn't enforce it's own rules?

(I'm surprised the site allows users who have stated their age as under 18 to access M+ content, actually. Not that it can't be circumvented, but still.)

I'm nosy!  When someone favs me, I always click on their profile out of curiosity. I like checking other folks favs, as I've found some great stories that way. I'm assuming the age stated on the profile is accurate, based on the one review she left me.

There's probably tons of young girls reading naughty stories on ffn, so I really don't know why I started to care. I suppose it's because I really didn't have all that many "adult" stories until I began writing for the Kmeme over the past couple of months. Since then, I've added quite a few. Oh well.

I'm not the reporting type, so I think it's time for me to get over it!

(I find the whole rating thing innacurate and subjective. I've read some stories rated T, that should have been MA. I rate most of my stuff M, just to be on the safe side, and I also warn of M content in individual chapters, if warranted. I just hope FFN doesn't decide to do another giant purge and delete accounts like they did years ago. That would mean deleting at least half the content currently posted there!)