10369 réponses à ce sujet

[hoorayforicecream]

I ask, because I'm still relatively new to the writing thing, but definitely not in putting my work in public or crafting an experience for others. I've dealt with reviewers of my work (both professional and colloquial), and I was just wondering what the general attitude of more accepted fan fiction writers is. I used the term "accomplished" because that's the term mousestalker used.

My main thing is that when I write, I'm interested in crafting an experience that I am conveying to the reader, and I tend to try to keep my readers in mind when doing it. This means that I often have to go back to rework scenes I think (or am told by prereaders) aren't working. I don't  write only for myself - if I did, I wouldn't post my work at all. I feel like the act of putting my work in public means that I am putting something out for others to consume, and I want to make it the best possible experience for them.

I find myself often feeling like I need more editorial process, for things like believability, scene construction, pacing, clarity and flow. In writing, I have the unique task of doing what the reader is doing in reverse. I have a scene in my head that I put on the page. The reader has to take what is on the page, and recreate the scene in their heads. I want the scene they see to match what I see, and in doing that I feel like I need to get as much feedback as I can via editorial process. If it isn't adequate or if they have questions or are confused, I feel like I have failed in the experience crafting, and have to go back and rework it until it flows.

Am I alone in this feeling?

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 19 juillet 2011 - 07:02 .

[Sialater]

I don't hand off to the Betas till the scene works as I want it to. I don't write for others, I write for myself, because I want to get to the end of the story. If others happen to enjoy it, that's wonderful, but ultimately, if it doesn't pass my own muster or at least hit my high bar of "good enough, I'm tired of looking at it," then it goes nowhere.

[Addai]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I ask, because I'm still relatively new to the writing thing, but definitely not in putting my work in public or crafting an experience for others. I've dealt with reviewers of my work (both professional and colloquial), and I was just wondering what the general attitude of more accepted fan fiction writers is. I used the term "accomplished" because that's the term mousestalker used.

My main thing is that when I write, I'm interested in crafting an experience that I am conveying to the reader, and I tend to try to keep my readers in mind when doing it. This means that I often have to go back to rework scenes I think (or am told by prereaders) aren't working. I don't  write only for myself - if I did, I wouldn't post my work at all. I feel like the act of putting my work in public means that I am putting something out for others to consume, and I want to make it the best possible experience for them.

I think the problem is that different people have different criteria.  I've come across little gems that are lightly reviewed and therefore maybe only lightly read, so is that writer not accomplished?  I wouldn't say so.

Why I say you can only write for yourself... Well, I'm not doing this for money and I don't have an editor or publisher telling me what to write.  So it has to be a story I like.  And if you try to predict what other people are going to like, I think that will drive you crazy.  I have no clue what is going to be received well and what falls flat.   Obviously, I'm very happy when things I like resonate with other people.  If I'd never gotten any feedback, I doubt I'd have continued writing DA fanfiction. 

I want the scene they see to match what I see, and in doing that I feel like I need to get as much feedback as I can via editorial process. If it isn't adequate or if they have questions or are confused, I feel like I have failed in the experience crafting, and have to go back and rework it until it flows.

Am I alone in this feeling?

My beta reader is invaluable, no doubt about that.  Having a patient eye and ear between you and the reading public is a good thing all around.

[Sialater]

Good Betas are worth their weight in internet cookies.

[Merilsell]

Sialater wrote...

I don't hand off to the Betas till the scene works as I want it to. I don't write for others, I write for myself, because I want to get to the end of the story. If others happen to enjoy it, that's wonderful, but ultimately, if it doesn't pass my own muster or at least hit my high bar of "good enough, I'm tired of looking at it," then it goes nowhere.

So. Much. This.

Couldn't have said it better. Seriously.

Well, then again it also helps big times that I have a great beta I can really rely on, mope/ramble about stuff and bounce ideas off. It makes writing so much easier, when you know there is someone call you out on things not fitting (if there are some) and save you from the embarrassment later. *huggles inqua/Mack*

[Corker]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

My main thing is that when I write, I'm interested in crafting an experience that I am conveying to the reader, and I tend to try to keep my readers in mind when doing it. This means that I often have to go back to rework scenes I think (or am told by prereaders) aren't working. I don't  write only for myself - if I did, I wouldn't post my work at all. I feel like the act of putting my work in public means that I am putting something out for others to consume, and I want to make it the best possible experience for them.

Makes sense to me, in my fanfic-as-performance paradigm. 

As other folks have pointed out, you can't totally control the audience, but oh, any bard will tell you, you can exert a lot of control.  You'll always have some folks who aren't listening or who heard something wrong and are now hopelessly confused. You'll have some whose tastes are just different, who just aren't interested in the crafted experience you're offering. 

But the fandom seems big enough that it's likely you'll find *some* appreciative audience, whatever you're interested in focusing on.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Welcome to the party! 

Sushifer wrote...

[...]

They're reaching such a critical mass that I just know I'm going to end up fitting them all into a coherent story pretty soon, and it's probably going to be a playthrough fic of some kind. But I keep putting it off until I can think of some new twists or sub-plots to clothe the basic bones of the canon game plot. I don't want to just rehash the same old events everyone's familiar with. I might be writing for myself, but I want to at least try and make it interesting for other people to read! Then again, another part of me is insisting that I just try to start writing the pesky thing and trust my brain to spawn some nice threads as I go along, as plunging straight in generally generates more ideas for me than sitting down, specifically trying to plan. What works best for you guys?

I am a really lazy planner. For long fics, I'm like, "Here is my major plot! I wannt start here, and I wanna end there." Then I write the part in between to connect the two dots. Sometimes I have a vague idea about how I want to resolve subplots that crop up, but most of the time I seriously feel like I'm making it up as I go along and hoping like hell the pieces end up fitting ('trusting my brain', as you put it ).

I tried planning a long fic once, but ended up going way off the beaten track before coming back on course near the "I wanna end there" bit.

I think planning just feels too much like *work* for me. I want to write the story itself!

[Lakhi]

I started with an idea, plot points between and an ending. All that's left for me is to fill in the blanks . that's how my story started at least >>

[Corker]

Sushifer wrote...

[...]

They're reaching such a critical mass that I just know I'm going to end up fitting them all into a coherent story pretty soon, and it's probably going to be a playthrough fic of some kind. But I keep putting it off until I can think of some new twists or sub-plots to clothe the basic bones of the canon game plot. I don't want to just rehash the same old events everyone's familiar with. I might be writing for myself, but I want to at least try and make it interesting for other people to read!

FWIW, I don't mind the same plot again, as long as the Warden is sufficiently different.  Personally, for me that means a different 'voice.'  I really enjoyed "Dead Duster Walking," even though it was mostly a straight-up Blight story with an original prologue, because Missa Brosca had a unique voice.  (Also, the world-building for the casteless in Orzammar was terrific.)

Then again, another part of me is insisting that I just try to start writing the pesky thing and trust my brain to spawn some nice threads as I go along, as plunging straight in generally generates more ideas for me than sitting down, specifically trying to plan. What works best for you guys?

I have four things I consider "long" (20-30K, which is not long at all compared to some of the stuff here).  Two are Blight tales; one was a playthrough memoir, so I'd just play some game and then write my reactions.  No outline needed, although knowing the story structure let me set up some foreshadowing.  The other was an alternate universe, just showing selected scenes from the original re-cast.  The planning there was more trying to find the most interesting scenes to port over and figure out who would be playing which roles. 

The DA2 AU barely follows the game plot at all, and I'm afraid it may have gotten a bit flailing-around.  What feedback I got indicated that it passed muster with the readers, but there were times when I was really banging my head trying to shepherd that thing to where it was supposed to go, per the writing prompt.  I sort of wished I'd done a better job outlining, but it worked out in the end.

The adventure serial had a loose outline (They go to Orlais. They meet the Wardens.  They go to the Grand Cathedral...)  and that worked fine, until and outline for the final few chapters got scrapped at the last minute.  The result was a climax that needed some serious revision, and an ending that I beat on with sticks for two weeks and I'm still not entirely pleased with.  "And then the story stopped.  The end."

So for the sequel, I spent the better part of a week outlining, trying to imagine the scenes unfolding.  I spent extra time on the climax (instead of just "dragon fight goes here!") and the ending.  It ran five pages of notes by the time I was done.

Will it work?  I dunno, I'm just one chapter in.  But I'm looking forward to giving it a try.

Edit: deleted bits of SoLD's post I quoted by accident. >.<

Modifié par Corker, 20 juillet 2011 - 06:02 .

[Bekkael]

Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't necessarily do a detailed outline. If I have a general story idea, I just try to jot it down and let the muses meander as they choose.

My biggest challenge is staying focused on just one story, and not allowing myself to get fragmented and pulled six different directions. It's why I tend to stick with one-shots more than long fics. I really admire writers that can write long, cohesive stories. I wish I had that type of focus.

For me, my kids and real life put a crimp in my ability to write. When I'm feeling the most inspired is inevitably when I can't find the time I need to type. Plus, there's nothing that can fragment my thought processes quicker than a screaming toddler. *sigh*

We all have our challenges, of course.

[nicethugbert]

I took a stab at fan fiction once when this one NWN server when through a wipe and I lost my favorite character there. It sucked, my fan fiction eulogizing the character sucked too.  I'll never do that again.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 20 juillet 2011 - 05:58 .

[maxernst]

Lakhi wrote...

I started with an idea, plot points between and an ending. All that's left for me is to fill in the blanks . that's how my story started at least >>

I actually didn't figure out how Morrigan's daughter would end until I was halfway through.  I knew that the story was going to consist of Aedan recounting the blight story while trying to locate Morrigan, but I didn't know what would happen once he found her.  The first and third parts of the saga, I have a fairly clear outline of what the main action in each chapter is about, though.

[Sushifer]

It’s really interesting reading everyone’s thoughts on all this! Muddling through with a very scant outline seems to be the most frequent technique, huh?

Yup, I am a terribly lazy planner. I jot down any ideas as they occur but rarely produce detailed outlines. More and more I find myself meandering through stories with very little idea where I’m heading, and while the plot almost invariably comes together of its own accord sooner or later, it tends to produce some rather disjointed or bloated beginnings. Which is fine when I’ve no plans to share it with many people until I’ve had plenty of time to get to the end of the story, and go back to reshape it into something more satisfactory. But with my gestating fic I imagine I’ll be posting chapter by chapter, more or less as I finish each one, as most people do. And as you say, considering fanifc as performance, or writing fanfic keeping the readers in mind even if you’re primarily doing it for you own entertainment: well, I want to have a solid base and basic structure that I’m happy with before I let it out under public scrutiny. I don’t want to end up with a published first half that I can’t stand while I’m writing the second. Then again, using the base game plot would prevent things getting too directionless.

But why am I rambling. Jotting down a few basic plot points, leaving plenty of wriggle room is clearly the way to go

Corker wrote...

FWIW, I don't mind the same plot again, as long as the Warden is sufficiently different.  Personally, for me that means a different 'voice.'  I really enjoyed "Dead Duster Walking," even though it was mostly a straight-up Blight story with an original prologue, because Missa Brosca had a unique voice.  (Also, the world-building for the casteless in Orzammar
was terrific.)

That’s a really interesting (and quitereassuring) perspective. Definitely something I’ll try to do; I’ve been trying to shape my current warden (yup, that’s him in my icon), into something more, well, unique, or at least distinctive, in my little drabbles. Hopefully I’ve got a bit of a headstart there, as there don’t seem to be very many male Mahariels around. Even less than the female ones!

Bekkael wrote...

For me, my kids and real life put a crimp in my ability to write. When I'm feeling the most inspired is inevitably when I can't find the time I need to type. Plus, there's nothing that can fragment my thought processes quicker than a screaming toddler. *sigh

Amen to that. Inspiration is brilliant at finding the most inconvenient moments to strike, isn’t it? And then when you’ve plenty of free time, it’s nowhere to be found.

@nicethugbert  But you'll never get any better if you don’t work at it! Practice is the only way to improve in anything, after all

Newb question for those of you with beta readers: are they people you knew before, who you then approached about pre-reading? Or did you specifically advertise for betas, or a mix of both?

Modifié par Sushifer, 21 juillet 2011 - 07:15 .

[Sialater]

My Betas were fans of my work first. They PM'ed me and we started talking and when an opinion was needed, I'd run it by them, knowing I'd get an honest answer.

[Addai]

Sushifer wrote...
But why am I rambling. Jotting down a few basic plot points, leaving plenty of wriggle room is clearly the way to go

What works is whatever works for you.  I did my first story that way, and if I could go back, I'd have approached it in more organized fashion.  Writing an ongoing story, where you're publishing each chapter as you go and thus can't do major edits later, is very tricky.  I personally wouldn't do it again- too nerve wracking.    I do think it benefits from an organized process, but obviously YMMV.

Newb question for those of you with beta readers: are they people you knew before, who you then approached about pre-reading? Or did you specifically advertise for betas, or a mix of both?

I approached people I knew from BSN who were also fanfic writers.  Ffnet has a beta reader "matching" system, but I've not used it so can't comment.

[Sialater]

I need my head examined.

I'm actually considering a novelization of DA2 like I've done for ME2 with Loved. But this time, I'd be uniting The Rescue with DA2.

Do I really have time for this? I have a real life novel to revise. Someone talk me out of this.

[Bekkael]

Sushifer wrote...
Newb question for those of you with beta readers: are they people you knew before, who you then approached about pre-reading? Or did you specifically advertise for betas, or a mix of both?

I have no beta (it probably shows). Mainly because I edit the ever-loving mess out of everything I write, even right up until I post. I'm also terribly impatient and can't bear to  wait while someone else works on my scribbles. I do have a few friends I bounce ideas off of though, but I guess that isn't really the same thing... *shrug*

[erynnar]

Anyone else write to stay sane? I have a job that is...*sigh* full of suffering and sorrow. I write to keep from running off a cliff. But it also is the reason I get so drained. Too drained to write. Anyone else suffer from the same problem, or am I just spitting in the wind?

[Addai]

erynnar wrote...

Anyone else write to stay sane? I have a job that is...*sigh* full of suffering and sorrow. I write to keep from running off a cliff. But it also is the reason I get so drained. Too drained to write. Anyone else suffer from the same problem, or am I just spitting in the wind?

My job is pretty draining, especially since the recession hit.  I would say creative outlet in general is one of my pressure releases, since the job is one of those soul-deadening office type jobs.  But most weeknights I don't have the energy to write, and can't write at work either- even on downtime I just can't do it- so weekends for me or nothing.

Modifié par Addai67, 27 juillet 2011 - 03:52 .

[erynnar]

Addai67 wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Anyone else write to stay sane? I have a job that is...*sigh* full of suffering and sorrow. I write to keep from running off a cliff. But it also is the reason I get so drained. Too drained to write. Anyone else suffer from the same problem, or am I just spitting in the wind?

My job is pretty draining, especially since the recession hit.  I would say creative outlet in general is one of my pressure releases, since the job is one of those soul-deadening office type jobs.  But most weeknights I don't have the energy to write, and can't write at work either- even on downtime I just can't do it- so weekends for me or nothing.

You and I sound like we are in the same boat. I tend to write on the weekends too.

[Addai]

erynnar wrote...
You and I sound like we are in the same boat. I tend to write on the weekends too.

Yeah.    I do "mentally" write during the week, and if I get a good head start on the weekends I can do some editing and rewrite during the week.  But I need a block of time where I can sit down and get into the zone.

[Sialater]

erynnar wrote...

Anyone else write to stay sane? I have a job that is...*sigh* full of suffering and sorrow. I write to keep from running off a cliff. But it also is the reason I get so drained. Too drained to write. Anyone else suffer from the same problem, or am I just spitting in the wind?

I discovered long ago that writing was my anti-depressant of choice.  Completely irrespective of any outside influence (ie, boring job, crazy family), I write to keep my brain from turning on itself and killing me with self-flagellant thoughts of my own inadequacy.  When I don't write, I have a noticable personality shift into the melancholy zone to the point where my husband threatens to tie me to a chair so I'll spend time with my imaginary friends and stop moping and playing the martyr.  I'm more confident and out-going when I'm writing because I don't have time to dwell on how lame I am or how inconsequential I feel since the back of my mind is figuring out how my heroine is going to save the galaxy this time.

[Bekkael]

erynnar wrote...

Anyone else write to stay sane? I have a job that is...*sigh* full of suffering and sorrow. I write to keep from running off a cliff. But it also is the reason I get so drained. Too drained to write. Anyone else suffer from the same problem, or am I just spitting in the wind?

I absolutely write to stay sane. I don't work outside the home (but I often wish I did...grass is greener thing), but I still deal with lots of stress and pressure in my particular sphere.

I love to write, but yes, it's a creative endeavor where you pour pieces of yourself into your characters. If you are feeling raw or drained in spirit, trying to write just feels like an exercise in self-flagellation. The cure for insanity can be an exhausting pill to swallow...

[Corker]

I like to be doing *something.* For the better part of a decade, my leisure writing wasn't straight-up narrative fiction. I wrote fan material for an RPG; I ran online play-by-post games; I wrote medieval poetry; I did research projects on medieval stuff and wrote papers. I wrote up class notes and developed a couple RPG worlds. A lot of writing, a bit of storytelling, but not much in the way of stories. And I did more music. Occasionally, crafts.

This past year has been a year of fanfic stories, with the medieval and RPG stuff getting a bit of a short stick. I don't know how long the pendulum will stay here. I like to keep my brain busy, but it doesn't have to be with story writing.