53 réponses à ce sujet

[Majpain007]

BigKahuna25 wrote...

he didnt even do a very good job fixing the hole... it looks like it got blasted AFTER he used the armor to fix it.

Edit: granted the  fact that there was anything at all left after atmospheric reentry is miraculous.

lol thats basically what happened.

I think that happened on Eden Prime where he got the armor.

Modifié par Majpain007, 06 février 2010 - 11:23 .

[Pathogen69]

Majpain007 wrote...

BigKahuna25 wrote...

he didnt even do a very good job fixing the hole... it looks like it got blasted AFTER he used the armor to fix it.

Edit: granted the  fact that there was anything at all left after atmospheric reentry is miraculous.

lol thats basically what happened.

I think that happened on Eden Prime where he got the armor.

he got shot on eden prime when he started following in shepards foot steps.  he says he found the armor at the normandy crash site.

[V4nBl00d]

maibe it's because of what legion said in the ME2 enemies trailer: 'geth do not experience fear, but we know how to generate fear' or something like that. Wearing part of the armor of the galaxy's most dangerous badass is probably not the worst way to do that...

[Kikaimegami]

Simple.. he admires Shepard, but has no idea how to articulate it.

[Garuda One]

gethsemani87 wrote...

Perhaps I am reading too much into it, but I am getting some Battlestar Galactica vibes here. Legion is obviously a geth and as such consider itself a part of a great unity. However, it can be noted that Legion builds up consensus (notably during the loyalty mission) on matters. Had the Geth simply been machines, as Legion himself tries to imply, they would have all agreed on one course of action.

The fact that Legion has been on its' own and has been experiencing things that millions of other geths haven't probably means that the entity (all thousand Geth AIs that compose Legion) is slowly developing a perception of the universe that differs from the rest of the Geth. The whole deal with the heretics also add some credability to the idea that the Geth are slowly developing identities. Legions decision to wear a piece of Shepards armor can probably be seen as an act of self-identification. In its search for Shepard, Legion has come to identify with the mission and perhaps even the values which the Geth are looking for in Shepard.

This

[MaddestHatter]

I also think that the dialogue "fixing a hole" means that he were trying to fix his loss of sheppard. And i agree with gethsemani87. The Geth are developing some kind of individual sense, but the interesting part in that is, that they are all connected like the borg in star trek.

In some way i believe that geth are really troubled, and their democratic system (building consesus) seems to fail somehow. In the loyalty mission of legion, the geth allready decided to rewrite the heretics (by 2 or 3 voices over the others) but legion still wanted that sheppard will make the decision.

i hope they make a good story out of it in me3, i would love to know more about geth and especially the legion unit and it's thoughts.

Modifié par MaddestHatter, 24 juin 2010 - 04:23 .

[Rip504]

Legion is not an individual, It is made up of over a 1,000 programs in a single platform. Why is this so difficult to understand ?

[thepiebaker]

Rip504 wrote...

Legion is not an individual, It is made up of over a 1,000 programs in a single platform. Why is this so difficult to understand ?

and exactly have many programs are running in our brains... we have one for our indivisual thoughts, many more depending on how many thoughts we have. a handful that sort, gather, and store our memories. a program for each muscle movement. registering what our senses are picking up. communication. and more...

we are computers ourselves, just organic.

your aurgument is invalid

[awpdevil]

To the OP, if you want to explore all his dialogue while still being able to save the crew, just save some side quests for after you go to the last mission, then once it is done, talk to him, then just do a side quest, go back to him, rinse repeat until he is out of things to say. If I remember correctly, save like 5 or 6 missions just to be safe.

Modifié par awpdevil, 24 juin 2010 - 05:57 .

[didymos1120]

For Legion, you only need to do two assignments to get to the end of his tree, if you talk to him in between.

[didymos1120]

thepiebaker wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Legion is not an individual, It is made up of over a 1,000 programs in a single platform. Why is this so difficult to understand ?

and exactly have many programs are running in our brains... we have one for our indivisual thoughts, many more depending on how many thoughts we have. a handful that sort, gather, and store our memories. a program for each muscle movement. registering what our senses are picking up. communication. and more...

we are computers ourselves, just organic.

your aurgument is invalid

You need to listen closer to what Legion says:  those 1000+ programs are all little, complete personalities themselves, roughly equivalent to a really, really good VI.  They form voting blocks and debate each other, hop into mobile platforms, hop back into servers, form and dissolve new little associations constantly, and they continually share memories and even single thoughts .  Now, if that's the sort of thing happening in your head, something ain't right.  The simple fact is,  they don't work the way organic minds do, period.  Both ME games, and Legion, tell you this many, many times. 

[Inquisitor Recon]

Legion is a creepy robot stalker. Simple as that.

I don't believe he ever explained where he found that piece of armor exactly, but it is creepy enough not knowing.

Legion is around only because he does that amusing head flap thing and for potential use as a lamp.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 24 juin 2010 - 08:16 .

[NephilimNexus]

Legion is a Geth Infiltrator... he's obviously building himself a disguise. 

[Stinkface27]

I think it's kind of a silly/fun thing, but that it can be taken to mean that the geth are truly evolving.

[Chuvvy]

WarmachineX0 wrote...

Or (The real one)
Geth are starting to individualize, and he's come to admire Shepard.

This.

[didymos1120]

ReconTeam wrote...

Legion is a creepy robot stalker. Simple as that.

Umm, that was his job: immediately after whole Citadel debacle, the True Geth wanted to talk with this Shepard person.  Showing up at, say, Earth en masse probably wouldn't go over too well, and if they just called and said "Meet us at the second moon of Trafalmadore, Tuesday, 3 PM UTC. It's not a trap. Srsly." or whatever, I don't think anyone would be convinced. So, they constructed a special platform that could talk coherently one-on-one, and sent it out into organic space.  Far cheaper if the organics just blew it to hell and much less likely to start a war.  Legion tried to track Shep down (i.e. do its job) and finally gave up at the crash site, then went on to a secondary objective: try to find out how to read Reaper data storage devices. 

I don't believe he ever explained where he found that piece of armor exactly, but it is creepy enough not knowing.

That's because it was obvious: he found it at the crash site of the Normandy SR-1.  Kinda like how you find your own helmet there.  What he didn't explain was why he used that instead of some random chunk of hull or crate.  But it's implied that it's simple admiration and that Legion just doesn't know how to articulate that or isn't even able to consciously "grok" the concept. In real life, it was added on a whim and never meant to be used in the final game, but everybody really liked it.

Modifié par didymos1120, 24 juin 2010 - 09:42 .

[Aryck the One]

I believe that Legion admires Shepard as a hero, for his defeat of Sovereign, a being that had claimed to be the pinnacle of evolution and existance. The armor fragment is there as a sign of respect for Shepard, whom he believed dead at the time.



It seems Legion is more capable of emotion than Miranda gives him credit... Perhaps the Geth programs in his mind have begun to develop individualality and emotion as a result of being isolated within a single platform. Life finds a way, it seems...

[vehzeel]

The N7 plate can mean a lot of things. For example, it can express the collective identity of the 1138 geth in Legion, it can mean the Legion collective admires Shepard and it can simply be a suitable piece to repair the hull. But bear in mind that Legion says that they examine what makes biologicals tick. In this case they might wish to understand humans and/or Shepard. Using the N7 plate is an excellent way to pique Shepard's interest instead of blasting the Legion platform into smithereens. The geth probably know by now they aren't very well liked, and their mere appearance makes biologicals try to fight them (why they don't mimic other races is anyone's guess). Now, Legion has access to biological society in a way no other platform has had since before the Morning War.

[EricHVela]

Save some of your non-essential and non-loyal missions for AFTER the suicide mission. Then as you complete them later, you can continue more of Legion's conversations.

[Rip504]

thepiebaker wrote...

Rip504 wrote...

Legion is not an individual, It is made up of over a 1,000 programs in a single platform. Why is this so difficult to understand ?

and exactly have many programs are running in our brains... we have one for our indivisual thoughts, many more depending on how many thoughts we have. a handful that sort, gather, and store our memories. a program for each muscle movement. registering what our senses are picking up. communication. and more...

we are computers ourselves, just organic.

your aurgument is invalid

So answer me this. When the platform Legion returns to the Veil and uploads its thousand programs into one of their hubs. Then these thousand programs spread out to other platforms, and new programs dl into "Legion" is it the same individual you met in ME2. Or is the platform(you call Legion) a new individual ? Because I can not upload my mind/brain and trade it with yours.No I am not a platform,but an individual who's mind/brain can not be replaced with anothers.

I was under the impresion that each Geth program is individual from the other. They are pretty much useless alone,but together (as in team) they work to better make choices etc. I understand they share memories and history together,but so do humans. 10 humans working together in a single base,is still 10 humans,just as Legion is a thousand Geth programs working together in a single platform.

So before you misunderstand what I have said, I belive Geth to be self-aware Intelligent Individuals,whom travel in platforms. What if 100 programs left Legion to go work somewhere else? What if more then a hundred leave and are replaced with new prgrams? Kinda like saying If I take half of your brain and replace it with someones else's half, are you the same person?

[KarmaTheAlligator]

Rip504 wrote...

 If I take half of your brain and replace it with someones else's half, are you the same person?

Probably, just drooling a bit more.

[Auchtane]

Insert Random Tangent --> AWWWWWwwww I wike de widdle stalkerbot.



His hero worship is not as bad as Conrad Verners.



Conrad would wear Shepard's skin while Legion would just make bad fan art and mary sue fan fiction.



Wait. I think Legion is above that.

[Andrekky]

I know that this is a late response, but the varying opinions really made me want to put up my thoughts here and I didn't find an immediate better place to do it. It's also 3:42 in the morning, so please have patience if my wall of text makes little sense.



We need to establish a few basic things before I can continue.

The first is that geth can develop a conscious worship. The heretics worship the reapers, to be 'given the future' as Legion describes their motives. It's noticed in how Saren is described like a prophet-figure in his relation to the geth. He tells Shepard that the geth worship Sovereign, and that the reaper is even offended by this.

The second thing is that the geth can consider icons and symbolism important. The use of the altar on Feros confirms this. You can even see the geth kneeling in front of it. Worshipping an altar is an extreme use of icons.



The true geth declined Sovereign's offer to help him in order to pursue their own future, making themselves the enemies of the reapers, as Legion explains.

Shepard reasons the same way in Mass Effect 1. Saren makes it clear that by making itself useful, humanity could endure and be spared rather than end up as enemies of the reapers. Despite the appearent invincibility of the reapers, despite the odds, he chooses to fight rather than to put his race(and the galaxy) at the mercy of the reapers.

Technically speaking, Shepard recieves the same offer from Saren as the geth recieved from Sovereign. Continued existance, technology in return for obediance. Both declined. The difference is that Shepard took this a step further and destroyed Sovereign.


"You killed their god. Your code is superior."  Not only does this sentence prove that they hold Shepard in extremely high regard (expressed in geth words), it also marks Shepard as what we could call the 'slayer of an enemy deity'.

Legion acknowledges that 'The Old Machines' could give them the future, but that the geth have chosen to build their own future. This is a principle, not a mathematical calculation as you would expect from a machine.


My theory in short; The true geth community either have or are reaching a conclusion that Shepard is the icon for their principles of existance. They identify themselves with Shepard from the choices that he has made in regards to the reapers and aspire to be more like him since "his code is superior". That is the reason as to why they would iconify him and wear his armor. Wether this is consciously or not is impossible to say.
 
Why the geth would make use of altars/icons/symbols at all is a question that lies way further back in the game than the moment Legion decided to pick up a piece of N7 armor.


I want to quote Legion a final time. This is what Legion says when you speak to him after you destroy the Collector base;

"An interesting choice Shepard-Commander. Your species was offered everything the geth aspire to. True unity, understanding, transcendence. You rejected it. You even refused to use the Old Machines' gifts to achieve it on your species' own terms. You are more like us than we thought."


".. than we thought."

Modifié par Andrekky, 03 octobre 2010 - 10:47 .

[Die x Letzte]

just to expand on the theory of legion wanting to be like shepard if you look at legion while talking to him he copies shepard's movements...

[bloodmoon0011]

The Gay Warden wrote...

Are you guys stupid? He explains how he gets it. I'll elaborate...<br />
<br />
If you talk to Legion enough and do his Loyalty mission, you can ask him about the armor. He says he goes to the planet you crashed on and retreives it after his search for you. He didn't find you, but he found your supposedly fallen and damaged armor. That's all he says about it.

Please read more thoroughly before you go calling people stupid... >.>

The question's not *how* he got the armor, but *why* he used it to patch a hole that'd supposedly been there for over two years, since Legion's platform was damaged on Eden Prime. 

My theory is pretty much what the others have said thus far:  The Geth had begun to lean towards individualism at this point, even though they hadn't really noticed it.  When he said "no data available", it was because he hadn't thought about it, and since individualism is not a Geth thing, he hadn't thought to deem it an act of honoring Shepard, even though it's pretty obvious he did it because the Geth looked up to Shepard (I say "obvious" because all of Legion's actions and words and manner of speaking to him seemed to point to a certain level of admiration).

tl;dr?

Don't call people stupid while simultaneously being stupid.  It's depressing.