115 réponses à ce sujet

[OspreyDawn]

So, like many, I have finished Mass Effect 2 and have given myself time to mull over my experience. What was awesome. What wasn't. Then I remembered how well BioWare listened to the community and feedback in terms of the best/worst parts of Mass Effect 1 and how they applied that feedback to Mass Effect 2.

That's when I thought, why not make a thread that keeps it all in one place? A thread where everyone can sound off about what they enjoyed and what they didn't like in one spot for BioWare to see. A thread where I can voice my opinion, and you can yours.

Now, I haven't been to this forum much, so I don't know what current trends are, but I thought this would be a good idea to have a civil and constructive discussion about where we want to go with the third installment.

I'll get the ball rolling.

What I liked about Mass Effect 2 and how it could be better:

• The choices that you made in Mass Effect 2 were as diverse as they come not just in Paragon/Renegade actions but in how you could interact with other characters. Having choices that not only progressed the plot, but progressed relationships as well, made the whole experience that much more immersive. You were the one calling the shots, you were the one flirting with a squad-mate and what not, not some scripted avatar. By doing this you became attached to who you liked to be around and distanced yourself from those who you didn’t. You feel loss for when they die too. That's what Mass Effect 2 did so well, it made you feel, emotionally, which in turn sucked you in and made messages, characters and events more powerful. Keep it up BioWare.

• The side missions are fantastic in that they each have their own unique story to tell that can sometime end up where you never expected. A solid improvement over the cookie-cutter levels and designs from the first. But to improve upon this, I thought the approach and discovery of side missions were not as well done as the first Mass Effect. Instead of scanning for anomalies, what about distress calls you could come across, missions that come out of the blue while on of the main missions. Also, whenever I came across the news reports I noticed they weren't added to my journal. Why not? Apart from that, the diversity in the missions and the level of interest they brought with them was enough to motivate me go out and find them, but there could have been more incentive.

• The cast of characters and their diverse opinions, traits and stories made getting to know them interesting, impulsive and rewarding. You care about them, every backstory has an event of which strengthens the bond between you and the characters, even the conversations you have with them and the responses they return help as well. Listening in on what your crew has to say about current events and getting to know everyone made it real tragedy towards the end of the game (you'd know what I'm talking about if you finished the game, I'm not spoiling anything). I found myself looking for my squad-mates on the Normandy without really noticing, caus I wanted to hang out with them, get to know them; me, not some avatar! All I'd ask for in the future would be some more plot defining decisions so that the ending (or the journey towards) can really diverge in some surprising ways and ultimately be different than other options/routes.

• Voice acting, animations and art design were all superb, story was interesting and better than most out there, but the important thing was it had purpose and gave you motivation and drive. For it wasn’t the story that made me feel though, it was the characters and that’s what made the story good. I doubt this will change too much in the next iteration as it's only gotten better over the last two games.

• The action, while not perfect, flowed really well. Especially when you got into the motion of things, it just worked and fitted together. It's just whenever the cover system got the better of me a few times, which was especially frustrating in dire situations, it killed the flow a bit but is wasn't too hard to get back to it. But it would be nice if the cover mechanic flowed really nicely like Gears of War’s does. I know, we don't want to dumb the game down, but still, the action in Mass Effect 2 is still not the best part relative to other titles out there that thrive on it, not to say it's not deep either though. If the cover let you move from chest high wall to pillar to vaulting in a fluid motion (ie. look to a piece of cover, if the outline glows orange (or whatever color it could be), when you direct the movement joystick in it's direction and press the cover button you'd stick to it, or shimmy to another one etc.), mixed with a few more varying situations and wallah, Gears of War can suck it. Oh, and while I'm at it, where the hell were grenades?

What I didn't like about Mass Effect 2 and/or how it could be better:

• Scanning. How tedious a task can you get? And it’s compulsory if you want to upgrade your things enough. What a contradiction, it tests your patience and rewards you for it on a small scale. It needs to be changed before Mass Effect 3. Keep the basic principle in that you have to find resources somehow (and I like the fact they gave you a purpose for looking for resources in Mass Effect 2 unlike the first) but make the experience fun, make it a mini-game, make it addictive, anything, I want to find these resources but in a way that's convenient and rewarding in how fun it is as well not just in what I get for doing it.

• The lack of RPG elements in relation to the first Mass Effect irked me a bit too. This time around it felt more like an action adventure game more than an RPG, with the direction of dialogue being the only exception. I want to get XP for killing someone as a reward, I want to loot their corpses and be surprised by what I find due to the number of weapons, armors, upgrades etc that I find. I want to suit up my comrades too. Why do I have so little to consider when it comes to leveling up my character? If anything, this would be the change I'd want to see most in Mass Effect 3. Sure, the menus in Mass Effect 1 weren't the best but did the concept have to be dropped completely for the sake of simplicity? I don't think so, there's always another way as my paragon Shepherd likes to point out (I have an idea for a mock up menu, I'll consider putting it up if the thread does well, explaining through words is a pain).

• Loading screens. Another annoyance. Sure they fixed the elevator problem, but I was one of the ones who loved the elevators (to an extent). While I can understand where people are coming from in relation to the elevators in Mass Effect 1 (ie. there were loads of them, they were annoying if you had to backtrack etc.), I though the premise was genius and I was happy people had thought of the idea. But what made elevators for me so great was the fact that they kept you in the game world, they never took you out like loading screens do. The loading screens are merely reminders that we're playing a game, not in the galaxy of Mass Effect, and that can kill the mood. If elevators were to be added to Mass Effect, I would like to see them revamped. Why not merge the premise of a loading screen with an elevator to make it less boring and more productive. Things like having a progression bar represented by the levels you are going through, a screen to look at that can give you hints, team mates in the background chatting who you can talk to also. And why stop there? Shouldn't the whole experience like Mass Effect be integrated? For example, if I wanted to go to my main menu, could the camera zoom in to my Shepherd's hand as he pulled out his Omni-Tool to reveal a displayed menu? Vice versa with PDAs and the like. What about going down in the shuttle? It could be like the suggestion I made before with the elevator, except a progress report on-screen somewhere displaying the flight path of the shuttle. I don't have to be taken out of the galaxy of Mass Effect and I don't want to, just think of how immersive Dead Space was with it's entire menus being projected from Isaac's suit in-game, that's the kind of immersion I'm talking about and want to see in Mass Effect 3.

New things I'd like to see implemented in Mass Effect 3:

• I'd also like to see bigger hubs in Mass Effect 3, the equivalent of 5 presidiums. Like having each major planet/station like Illium or Omega to be as big and diverse as the presidium in terms of different areas of the place and size. It would make the galaxy look as big as it should do and exploration more eye-opening. Big vistas and views on display like Illium’s on each would help also get that feeling of a huge, bustling galaxy filled with life.

• Why is every alien race so... human? Could it hurt to have a little diversity in the way aliens look and act? Like the Elcor and Hanar? Where were they in all of Mass Effect 2? Their prominence in the galaxy wasn't felt anywhere but a few references. And I know humans are supposed to be the most diverse out of the species and we’re supposed to be able to relate to these aliens in some way but why is it so hard to come across a Salarian that looks distinctively different from another one?

• And finally, the lack of vehicular combat. No I didn't think the Mako was fantastic either, but there was no reason to drop it completely from the game anyway. It added that extra bit of diversity to the combat and while it was hard to master, you were good when you did. More varying ways to establish the combat would be fantastic, gunships were introduced, why can't there be sequences where we can use them too? Just look to Halo when you want fantastic controls for vehicles on a console, we stand on the shoulders of giants and it only makes everything better for it.

• Now, I'm gonna get shunned for this, weird looks, apathy and out-cry, but it can be done well and can add extra to longevity. Co-op in Mass Effect could be fantastic. Pinnacle station for Mass Effect 1 was a realization that simulated wave defense of enemies with your comrades would be fun as hell (if the gameplay would let it). It's fun in Left 4 Dead, it's fun in Gears of War and it's undoubtedly fun as hell in Halo 3: ODST and with the rise in frantic action in Mass Effect 2, if perfected in 3, it could be fun as hell as well. As to how the fiction about why there are so many other people called Shepherd running around in the same galaxy could be fixed, I have no idea. They could be just unnamed soldiers in relation to your character in terms of the fiction, everyone’s looking for some Creds at some arena (the same fiction could also adhere to competitive multiplayer as well), but other than that, if co-op were included in Mass Effect 3, I'd be one happy camper. But not just co-op, but a whole online presence as well, the Cerberus Network is just the tip of the ice-burg of what can be done.

So, while I've blurted out quite a bit about what I enjoyed and would like to see done in Mass Effect 3, I'd like to hear what you have to say too and I'm sure someone at BioWare would too.

What’s great about Mass Effect 2 (and indeed the first) is how awesome they are to experience, but how many things that can be fixed as well, leading to next iteration with excitement to see how BioWare can improve an already fantastic formula.

And if you've read this far, I hope you comment in some way and add (concisely and eloquently of course) to what I've started.

Thanks,

Osprey Dawn

Modifié par OspreyDawn, 06 février 2010 - 09:11 .

[TuringPoint]

I want to add:



I want more well-developed outcomes to our decisions in Mass Effect 1, and Mass Effect 2. Even if this is just in the epilogue.



I want the choices we make to interact and intersect a little more. If we've made decisions that killed off colonies, like on Feros, there might be a minor or insignificant impact on colonization efforts. If we also suported Terra Firma, maybe Earth starts to confine itself a little more, and is more conservative about colonial development. That kind of thing, that's just an example. You only need a few choices to intersect to give the whole universe a lot more credibility, to give your choices more meaning.

[CRISIS1717]

There are some good points there but I'd see multiplayer co-op in Mass Effect as a total sell out of Biowares development standards and then dub them EAware.

[CYCLONE957]

Didn't like working with Cerberus in ME2. Miss being Alliance. In ME3 I want to be CAPTAIN Shepard. Alenko outranking me?! Wrong! I agree with RPG elements comment. I LOVE the fact it's a shooter RPG though, it doesn't get better than that. I actually liked that they took the Mako out- it took up too much game time. The shuttle was a definite improvement... Co-op would be cool, but then they'd have to make it a three disk game. hahaha. Probably cost more, but worth it. Also in ME3, need wrex and liara back... with garrus. Loved personalization of armor in ME2, awesome camo armor = cool cut scenes. Agree also with larger presidium/citadel idea. Felt clostrophobic in tiny citadel in ME2. Most of all, there needs to be fish in the presidium lakes!!! Why have lakes if you don't have fish? Krogan love sushi.

[Monstruo696]

No co-op.



The games are already unpolished as they are. I'd rather they spent time fixing animations than coding what will most likely be a buggy and laggy co-op system.



It won't work, period.

[CYCLONE957]

One more thing... I want my grenades back from ME1. No grenades equal less explosions. And we can't have that!

[Kronner]

And more dialogues with your crew. I think ME2 has way too many squadmates but only few dialogues with each. I'd prefer half the squadmates with twice as much of dialogues.

Modifié par Kronner, 06 février 2010 - 09:36 .

[BlueMongoose89]

I've welcomed almost every single change made since ME1. But one thing that leaves me utterly baffled is the stupidity of the AI, if anything it's gotten worse. What is the point of spending 75% of the game collecting the most elite team in the galaxy if any one of them is easily overtaken and raped by a lowly Husk. Soooo in ME3 if it's still going to claim to be a squad based tactical RPG, give us more squad orders then move there, attack that.

[Frotality]

agreed on all points, then majorly disagreed on co-op (you did expect it anyway)

and yes, the squad AI was terrible yet again, they went from never hitting anything to letting everything hit them (you know that stream of machine gun fire coming from the heavy mech garrus? think maybe you could wait it out behind cover...or you know, stand there and die, thats good to.)

also i would like to remind bioware that replacing our team YET AGAIN would be a very, very, very very.....VERY bad move. a game all about story cant be juggling 20+ main characters, we have too much as it is.

[Lucy Glitter]

Apart from the co-op I'd say wham bam, yes! I would also like to add in that femsheps shouldn't be overlooked armour and romance-wise!

[Terror_K]

Combine the best elements from both ME games and ME3 would be perfect. ME1 was a broken RPG, and ME2 was a fixed-but-shallow RPG. Give ME2 the depth that ME1 had with the style of ME2 and I think you'd have the right mix.

[dill14491]

I absolutly loved the game, took me 42 hours 2 finish. Just thought that the romance scene could have been better not just a 10 second kiss than black. Needs more itimacy and skin like ME 1 even though that was pretty lame but was better than ME 2.

[Homebound]

I want Bioware to REALLY take their time with Mass Effect 3. Dont stop working until its absolutely perfect. No loose ends, no lack-luster plot elements, no anti-climactic ME2 choice outcomes, and so forth. Put the spit-shine on that game til your mouths run dry.

Modifié par Just_mike, 06 février 2010 - 11:46 .

[severe31]

Monstruo696 wrote...

No co-op.

The games are already unpolished as they are. I'd rather they spent time fixing animations than coding what will most likely be a buggy and laggy co-op system.

It won't work, period.

I agree and disagree. I agree about puting the time in to polish, but I also think that DLC a year or so after release featuring coop, were everyone can bring there custom shepard with all there custom talents  together to fight waves of Geth Krogan, Mercs, and everyother goon in the game would make an amazing experience.  Or copp 4 players for a super insanty mission, the posiblities for tactical cordination or endless given everyone uniqe play style and class.

[Homebound]

dill14491 wrote...

I absolutly loved the game, took me 42 hours 2 finish. Just thought that the romance scene could have been better not just a 10 second kiss than black. Needs more itimacy and skin like ME 1 even though that was pretty lame but was better than ME 2.

I think the romance ending are good the way they are. If you think about it, what does the game REALLY gain by haveing 5-minute long sex cutscenes like the one with the consort?

Another cutscene we'll all end up skipping anyways.

[severe31]

Alot of things were greatly inproved in ME2 from the last, but there is still room for improvments. the following are my suggestions to improve the game.



Mele, I liked the way Unchareted 2 incoprated mele, I think ME3 would benefit from a similar seystem. With difrent animation for the difrent enemy types.



Cover, Cover to cover, Simalar to Gears of War 2 This is when you are glued to cover, using your directional you would get a button prompt for difrent derections to perform a quick dive or slide into another piece of cover. Having to get up and get back into cover becomes old.





Charcter during combat seem stiff. Comander shepard moves very stifly, weapon alway pointed foward, arms always up. They should make him more fluid if his arms arnt alwasy straight ahead . Army of Two the 40th day, Gears of War 2 and Ghost Recon are all examples of this.





Upgrades. I wish they were a lil stronger, and also I like the way the old game would let you manage them.





Weapons. More weapons, also sell the weapons in the shops



Armor. same as the weapons, alot more, and sell them in the shops.



Invetory. I loved the old inventory system. I understand the new one, and it is fun, but I liked all the micro managment. Maybe for the sequal the could find a happy meduim between the 2.



I love that going rengade affectas your aperance, they should keep that.



Bigger hubs I was expecting huge cities with shops everywere.



Those are my suigestions.

[dill14491]

Just_mike wrote...

dill14491 wrote...

I absolutly loved the game, took me 42 hours 2 finish. Just thought that the romance scene could have been better not just a 10 second kiss than black. Needs more itimacy and skin like ME 1 even though that was pretty lame but was better than ME 2.

I think the romance ending are good the way they are. If you think about it, what does the game REALLY gain by haveing 5-minute long sex cutscenes like the one with the consort?

Another cutscene we'll all end up skipping anyways.

Well I'm just saying like that they could've made it look better not an actual full on sex scene, somthing like the ME 1. Although I can understand with Tali how they didn't realy how what she looks like (I hopes shes beautiful just like her voice actor) to keep an excitment about it.

[OspreyDawn]

NewMessageN00b wrote...

Leave... the... game... alone...

Too much suggestions and hate threads are responsible for the seemingly unneded changes in ME2 already.

I wasn't trying to say the game sucked, it doesn't. And there's hate? Why the hell? It's easily one of the best examples of how immersive, powerful and fun a game can be but that doesn't mean there are no flaws present. There are some needed changes, but I can see and others can too, how Bioware can make Mass Effect 3 an overall fantastic experience through and through. That's what I made this thread for. I don't want hate, I want constructive, thought out feedback in a civil way. Sure it's the internet, I shouldn't really expect that but I'm interested in what others have to say just as much as I am willing to hear what people think of my ideas.

The first two Mass Effect games are terrific, maybe the third can be a amalgamation of their best parts.

[Hizoka003]

make it more like ME1... i don't want a shooter pretending to be an RPG i want an RPG

[OspreyDawn]

Hizoka003 wrote...

make it more like ME1... i don't want a shooter pretending to be an RPG i want an RPG

Why not have the best of both worlds? In my opinion, making the action (which in a way is a driving factor of progressing through the story) take the back seat would be a step backward. But yes, I think it's unanimously agreed upon that Mass Effect should get its RPG back.

[Hizoka003]

OspreyDawn wrote...

Hizoka003 wrote...

make it more like ME1... i don't want a shooter pretending to be an RPG i want an RPG

Why not have the best of both worlds? In my opinion, making the action (which in a way is a driving factor of progressing through the story) take the back seat would be a step backward. But yes, I think it's unanimously agreed upon that Mass Effect should get its RPG back.

thats what i mean... i like the action of 2 but the story of 1 was so far superior its not even close... also they over reacted with the adpet class changes.... it went from a very powerful(too powerful) class to a spambot... i mean there was great fun in tossing people around but with the way it is in ME2 by the time you toss someone they are dead... you just might as well use warp....


i loved my Adept of ME1 yes it was OP by the end of the game... but at the same time Adepts in ME2 are not really any differnt at the end of the game then they are at the start... you still just have warp to use... Shields and Barriers should not stop you from using power of any kind... i agree you should nt be able to toss a singularity in a room and dominate it... but at the same time you need to be able to put a charging krogan on his butt with throw even if hes got armor... it might not hurt him but hes sitting down

[MassEffect762]

Terror_K wrote...

Combine the best elements from both ME games and ME3 would be perfect. ME1 was a broken RPG, and ME2 was a fixed-but-shallow RPG. Give ME2 the depth that ME1 had with the style of ME2 and I think you'd have the right mix.

I agree. It's amazing so many either find that hard to believe or don't care.

[Phel Shepard]

I loved this game, I love the universe it's in. There are some serious strengths I think they earned with simplifying certain things that needed it.



I don't have many complaints, mostly things that are already mentioned in other threads (like no crouching... eh what?) but there is something about the past story and characters I'd like to say, I posted this in another thread so I'm just going to copy-paste:

cyberwaste13 wrote...

5. Liara's cameo was BS... She didn't even act like she was happy to see me. Being that she was my LI in ME1, I found this particularly odd. The dialogue was painfully short, and lacked any meaningful options what so ever. "Hey, I'm going on a suicide mission." "Oh? Well, good luck with that. Could you hack some stuff for me? Kthxbye." I felt like the lack of info was only for the purpose of selling ME: Redemption. Bioware might as well have had Liara tell you to go buy the ME comic book if you wanted to know more.

Wow Bioware. All I have to say is, what were you thinking? Honestly? Why should I compare past MAIN characters to nothing more than a cameo? You guys seriously dropped the 'ball of potential' with the continuation of character development here.



For use of illustration, it's like you guys are in the finals before superbowl, overtime and the quarterback throws you the ball for a perfect touchdown and you fumble with 5 seconds on the clock. How did you seriously choose one of the worst possible conversation and plot devices for a returning love interest you could have? Liara could have been happy to see you, she could have been estatic you were alive, she should have dropped her job at the drop of a hat and joined your mission on a multi-billion dollar ship trusting you. Worried about her death? Don't make her a squadmate but have her do Prothean research on the Normandy and have her be on an important dig site while **** goes down or SOMETHING.



You dropped the ball so hardcore I am trying to form a good paragraph but just keep typing my thoughts as they come... because this was important to me. How could returning characters not have been? Ever heard of movie sequels? They didn't cast a new love potential for Anakin Skywalker in Episode 2. I mean, this is basic formula.



What do I get with Liara? Some kind of indifferent 5 minute conversation (if that) and a quip about me being with Cerberus. Excuse me? Did I miss something here? Ok bye Liara I only looked forward to seeing you the most in this entire freaking game. Guess I'll go hack into a computer for you hope you love me for it. Godamn you better make op for this in ME3 or you'll lose the superbowl to the fickle public who is a worthy enemy.



Biggest most incredible dissapointment was returning characters. For starters, they didn't need to put in a new cast if the first one worked well. Ax half of the new cast and continue development on the old ones like a true sequel. My favorite characters in ME2 were Garrus and Tali, and it's no secret to me why. We have history, we have a previous relationship. Of all my crew members I feel like I can trust them the most. Hell I was pissed they were not 'auto-loyal' to me. I mean did I not save the galaxy last game with them fighting by my side? How did Bioware miss the train of potentially awesome character plots in ME2... who do I blame for this? Honestly guys this is more than a rant it's the truth. I hope you see it for what it is.



P.S.



Word on the street is the Liara fiasco is some kind of ploy for your comic book? Sorry but I don't care what your comic book does, I care what my Shephard does.

[OspreyDawn]

I guess what most have to consider is that, creating a game like Mass Effect, with the scale and scope it withholds, is a huge undertaking for the developers and I respect Bioware for what they've accomplished with the first and second Mass Effect. Things are bound to be left out or not developed as much due to crushing time constraints. But with what Bioware has managed to pull off so far leads me to believe that all that needs to be done is some tweaking, and that's all I really see my suggestions as, the devil is in the detail and it's the small things that count.



I'd like to see more action, the variety in the types of enemies was good - could have a bit more - but the most glaring thing would be the variety in how the action is played, not just the variety in the types of missions which I thought was fantastic. Just thinking back now to the horde of original content that is in Mass Effect 2, just goes to show how many man hours went into this thing and how what's been done before can be utilized so that Mass Effect 3 can be focused on other things.