14 réponses à ce sujet

[Rubbish Hero]

Do you think it would be a better game?

[Pfor]

If Bioshock was primarily designed with a PC non-mainstream mentality it would have sold dick and nobody would care about it.

[Rubbish Hero]

While System Shock 2 didn't sell well, Stalker sold 2 million copies.
Still, that doesn't actually answer the question.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 07 février 2010 - 12:32 .

[Pfor]

Your question is too broad to actually be answered. What do you mean by a non-mainstream mentality? Would you rather they made Bioshock as a 4X game? An adventure game? What makes STALKER a better game than Bioshock? What makes it less mainstream? Because I'm scanning over the reviews right now and Bioshock has a far higher average score.

[aauxraydar]

Wait, how can it be politically correct and non mainstream at the same time?

[Rubbish Hero]

Pfor wrote...Your question is too broad to actually be answered. What do you mean by a non-mainstream mentality?.

A game design that anyone can pick up and play with little to no learning curve, challange, visual aids e.t.c...

Pfor wrote...
Would you rather they made Bioshock as a 4X game? An adventure game?.

?

Pfor wrote...
What makes STALKER a better game than Bioshock? .

The thread is a qeastion not an answer.
If you are asking for my own personal opinion, Sure I think it is better, as is System Shock 2.
Barring the art direction and narrative,I found  Bioshock to be a big turd.

Pfor wrote...
Because I'm scanning over the reviews right now and Bioshock has a far higher average score.

That makes it better, right?

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 09 février 2010 - 08:42 .

[Valente11]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Do you think it would be a better game?

no. What is better is subjective, and someone somewhere(like me) will hate it for going PC. PC games can be great, but the days when there were great PC exclusives are all but gone. The market is pretty small, a lot of people can't afford to buy decent gaming PC's. Or they can afford it but they won't buy it, you can thanks Macs for that.

[Pfor]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Pfor wrote...Your question is too broad to actually be answered. What do you mean by a non-mainstream mentality?.

A game design that anyone can pick up and play with little to no learning curve, challange, visual aids e.t.c...

So a NON-MAINSTREAM game is a game anyone can pick up and play? I think I've lost you somewhere along the way. 

Pfor wrote...
Would you rather they made Bioshock as a 4X game? An adventure game?.

?

Both non-mainstream gaming genres. But I guess I shouldn't expect you to know that.

Pfor wrote...
What makes STALKER a better game than Bioshock? .

The thread is a qeastion not an answer.
If you are asking for my own personal opinion, Sure I think it is better, as is System Shock 2.
Barring the art direction and narrative,I found  Bioshock to be a big turd.

Let me put this as politely as I can - your question is dumb. I can't convey how dumb I think it is in non-banworthy language. First up, your 'thread is a question not an answer' comment makes no sense. You act as if your opinion is the plinth on which all opinions should lie. The entire premise of your question, of the topic, is your opinion that Bioshock isn't a good game. 

Pfor wrote...
Because I'm scanning over the reviews right now and Bioshock has a far higher average score.

That makes it better, right?

To most people, yeah. I couldn't care less about what you think but face the facts - more people enjoy Bioshock more than STALKER and more people know Bioshock better than they know System Shock 2. 

[Rubbish Hero]

[quote]Pfor wrote...I think I've lost you somewhere along the way[/quote]

It would appear so, obviously misread.

[quote]Pfor wrote...
but face the facts - more people enjoy Bioshock more than STALKER
[/quote]

From looking at some citations S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Shadow of Chernobyl sold around 2 million units.
Bioshock sold around 3 million units while Stalker: Clear Sky and Stalker Call of Pripyat have no solid sales data and neither does Bioshock 2 as well as no data on the amount of piracy which is quite prominant in certain parts of  Europe.

These facts seem rather hazy.


[quote]Pfor wrote...
Let me put this as politely as I can
[/quote]

You must be an inherently rude and condescending person if this as polite as you can be.

[quote]Pfor wrote...
 The entire premise of your question, of the topic, is your opinion that Bioshock isn't a good game. [/quote]

The thread question reads as follows "Do you think it would be a better game?".
"Better" doesn't mean by default a game isn't "good",  neither does it imply that my own personal opinion, which you asked for seperately, applies to everyone elses opinion.

[quote]Pfor wrote...
You act as if your opinion is the plinth on which all opinions should lie
[/quote]

[quote]Rubbish Hero  wrote...
If you are asking for my own personal opinion, Sure I think it is better, as is System Shock 2.
Barring the art direction and narrative,I found  Bioshock to be a big turd"[/quote]

Compared the attitude being shown at the moment,  this is humility.


[quote]Valente11 wrote...
no. What is better is subjective[,/quote]

Of course it is, it's a discussion, tat.

[quote]Valente11 wrote... PC games can be great, but the days when there were great PC exclusives are all but gone..[/quote]

Exclusives have declined for certian genre's  but  that would also be subjective, there are still exclusives of games of certain genres e.g. RTS/MMO as well as lesser known, niche titles.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 10 février 2010 - 05:02 .

[aauxraydar]

Okay, I admit my joke wasn't that funny so more on topic. I think that Bioshock wasn't created with a console mentality but a shooter/action mainstream approach. I have never played SS2 but the gameplay I've seen made it seem like a much slower paced shooter then most fps. A counter strike player would probably be very bored of SS2 or Bioshock but share your feelings about consoles.

[jasonirma]

FWIW, obviously the OP was looking for a flame war to erupt (and it has) about consoles (i.e., "mainstream" per OP's question) vs. PC ("the elegant gamer"). I am definitely a PC gamer which has everything to do with the portability of my laptop and my inability to mentally map out console controllers in my mind (whereas I can keymap a keyboard with finesse). I don't personally feel PC >>> Console games just because of their controls. But PC games historically are like Mac vs. PC debate: PC's are cool, but nothing reaches the masses like a Mac. So, in fact, Mac is probably the superior platform (and yet it undersells because once you know how to tweak a PC, PC's are more fun for the "in depth" personality that wants to get under the hood and customize their own rig).



I, for one, don't feel that Bioshock was ever dumbed down for any audience. Bioshock was sublime, deep, shallow, artsy, and mainstream simultaneously. It was an amazing game on many levels that I appreciate more with each playthrough.



What I'm grappling with a bit, though, is how I feel about BS2. The plot is slow on the uptick thus far, and it definitely feels like a more "approachable" game for the masses as opposed to the bizarre and cryptic feel Bioshock 1 had.



I'll say this much, though, there are some amazingly subtle motifs in current releases such as BS2, ME2, and DA:O that show the unbelievably rich plotlines and messages game designers are using for those of us looking for intellectual gaming. Whether on console or PC, I'm happy to see the artform move forward as it's doing now.

[Borschtbeet]

PC gaming is dead. 99 percent of all PC games are console ports. PC gamers can whine and cry about how unfair it is all they want but it is their own damn fault for pirating everything.

[AshedMan]

You speak as if people don't pirate console games.

[Borschtbeet]

AshedMan wrote...

You speak as if people don't pirate console games.

They do, but the PC gaming market is smaller than consoles so pirating has a bigger impact on the PC gaming market.

It's not a coincidence that the industry is so console centric.  We're talking about a business here afterall.  PC gamers think they're a charity though and that they're all entitled to games.

Those thieving morons at piratebay even hold "pirate rights rallies" acting as if they're victims of evil corporate masters for demanding something so outrageous as people actually paying for their products.

[Rubbish Hero]

jasonirma wrote...

FWIW, obviously the OP was looking for a flame war to erupt (and it has) about consoles (i.e., "mainstream" per OP's question) vs. PC ("the elegant gamer").

It can't be that obvious if you are wrong. Do you believe that if this wasn't designed with a console mind it wouldn't be as streamlined? It's nothing to do with the gamer unless the game is designed for a certian age group/crowd, with multiplat games these days they are melding. Another game e.g. Operation Flashpoint 2 is very streamlined compared to the original, it doesn't even use mouselook in vehicles. The mouse and keyboard setup sitting at a desk is very different from sitting on a couch 5 feet away with a control pad.

Borschtbeet wrote...

PC gaming is dead. 99 percent of all PC games are console ports

http://adrianwerner..../games-of-2010/

Borschtbeet wrote...

 PC gamers think they're a charity though and that they're all entitled to games.

Borschtbeet wrote...
 PC gamers can whine and cry about how unfair it is all they want but it is their own damn fault for pirating everything.

Just because a certain sect feels that way doesn't mean we all are. Not all of the mentality you seem to believe we have and there are pc gamers that do purchase games. Theres also other factors like consoles being more powerful with less visual leap  than they were generations before, more mainstream Internet access, games like Halo that popularized first person shooters on consoles (sadly), higher production costs, HD gaming, integrated graphics cards, Microsoft blanking it out to get people on the xbox's. It's not as simple as "WE are all pirates who cry" and for certian genre's the pc is still dominant.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 11 février 2010 - 04:04 .