82 réponses à ce sujet

[BenEar]

Do you not feel that the combat is more alive in this game? I rather enjoy the combat change.

[NightAntilli]

Bioware shouldn't.. The RPG elements are fine in this game actually, they just kept the amount of items low.. Let me explain..

First of all, 3 people walking around with 150 items doesn't make sense. So, no thanks to the old system. The whole incendiary ammo add-ons were a nice idea, but they shouldn't have implemented so many levels of the same thing. Making it a skill was a good idea.

2nd, If they had 10 different armor types with all different abilities, and each of them able to customize, no one would be complaining. The basis of what they changed is fine, they just need to increase the amount a little.

3rd, same goes for weapons themselves. They could either put more weapons in, or allow add-ons for weapons, or allow tweaks for weapons. Scanning weapons is fine.

4th, as for class builds, the classes are more customizable than most people think. You get to choose an additional weapon, and an additional skill. You can never max out all the skills, and depending on which new weapon you choose, your character will play differently..

I really don't see what the problem is.

[michal9o90]

You don't see, and this is your point, my point go another way.



For me go around with 150 items have sense, because i can do good builds for all situations in each moment.



2nd, Like i said now ME II is totaly shooter, skills which have me or my squad is just verry funny.



Why Bioware just don't delete all skills, i don't need them to win, In ME 1 i use verry much skills, now in ME 2 only i need warp to kill all.

[DarthReavus]

I think the point is that carrying around 150 items doesn't make realistic sense. Do you have any backpacks? No. Do you have lots of pockets? No. Do you have anywhere to realistically stash god knows how many guns, suits of armour and various other toys on your person? No.



It may make sense from the perspective of being able to alter your weapons and armour at less than a moments notice so you can counter any threat, but from a realism perspective it makes no sense at all.

[michal9o90]

yeah man, BUT BUT BUT, i can again say this, this isn't only shooter and no one never said this game must be realistic game.



This game is fusion rpg and shooter, RPG RPG RPG, i repeat RPG, so for me this game particularly ME II, don't have any of rpg elements.

[DarthReavus]

Then you are blind, ignorant or a combination of the two. For the record it also goes beyond the suspension of disbelief on the old school shooters that you can carry around 10 weapons that pull from somewhere never visible on the character model, when it was available.



I much prefer the modern trend in realism in games that have a real-world setting. I love RPGs and I enjoy shooters so for me Mass Effect 1 and 2 are brilliant games. I played Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn and Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal and loved all three of them. I also played both of the KotOR games and loved them, funnily enough KotOR 1 more than KotOR 2 and BioWare only made KotOR 1. I also love DA:O.



I often however, find that my suspension of disbelief is severely taxed in most games when I can carry around hundreds of items when the character(s) don't actually have the means to carry it all around. I like that you have to kit out your team at the start of the mission, it means you actually have to think about all the variables and probabilities of enemies right at the start and plan accordingly, rather than chopping and changing every five seconds. The fact that in most RPGs you can chop and change every five seconds is actually a weakness to me. It's a crutch, a get-out-of-trouble-free card.



And since when does loot and massive inventory capacity and instant access to it equal an RPG? To me an RPG is playing a character and making choices that have consequences and ramifications, it's not about loot and inventory.

[michal9o90]

Thx for call me ignorant, verry thank you, i don't call you idiot, because you like what you want.



I said i understand your point, and i can say mass effect 2 is better but not for me, i like another things then you, all of people have another preferences.



PS: I don't like Baldur but i love kotor

[DarthReavus]

I apologise for the insulting tone I took at the start of my last post, it was uncalled for. I've just gotten sick and tired of seeing post after post after post saying "this is not an RPG it has no loot or inventory." Loot and massively long lists of inventory you cannot realistically carry doesn't make an RPG and I get sick of seeing posts where people seem to be insinuating that those two things are the only things that make an RPG an RPG.

[michal9o90]

hehe ok i agree with you in 100% those two things aren't the only things that make rpg an rpg xD

I apologise if i was to much stubborn, because you have right, ME II is really more realistic compared to real life, and this is big "+" for ME II but I just don't like new system because for me is to much realistic, i want more skills, i want skills which will even more stronger, shepard is a hero and i want see him how he just crash enemy by one shot, he improve his skills, and i want in ME III fight with big enemy, and will see how much they scared shepard, because he will be to much powerfull for opponent, for this i love rpg.

Maybe you can understand me if i say i love game like Devil May Cry 4, and love anime like dragonball.

In ME 1 i can feel like hero, in ME 2 i just feel like just only comandor shepard nothing more.

Modifié par michal9o90, 09 février 2010 - 02:17 .

[BenEar]

Did you hear about the expansion that probably would fix what you have a problem with? Go to G4tv.com, gametrailers.com, and ign.com they all have the same article that talks about some kind of huge thing they are going to add that invovles mass effect. Plus its to early to talk about inventory and lack of options when we just got a new heavy weapon and shotgun within two weeks of release; so I say again wait and see what they add. Like I'm not playing as much and I'm being patient for addons.

[Conway044]

I think adding some armor items for Shep's companions would be nice. With so many people it might slow the game down some though.



ME 2 > ME 1 In my book.

[Haventh]

 I can understand why you want certain things back from how they were in ME 1. At start i was somewhat annoyed by the many changes, but after playing a few hours i got used to it and i really came to love the changes. 

I think combat in ME 2 is just pure awesome, it is really fun, and more challenging than in ME 1 i think. I do see it as an rpg, but sometimes feels like a shooter in combat. Which i find pretty awesome. The new system doesn't really overshadow ME 2 as an rpg i think. Combat is combat,story is story. It's two different aspects of a game.

I really like the classes in ME 2 more than in ME 1, there are fewer choices, which makes choosing easier. For me this is a positive thing. I really don't mind many choices, i do love DA, and i have a long history as a NWN 1 and NWN 2 fan, but having few choices mean that you can just jump into the game without much planning before.

Also, i like the new abilities. In my first, and current playtrhough i'm playing a soldier, it's pretty awesome. Soldier is definatly MUCH better than it was in ME 1 much more fun.  

I don't find adept, or biotics useless. Even though i aint made a biotic char yet, my biotic companions really have no problem with beating the crap out of enemies with their powers. It really depends how you use them, i say you are using the biotic powers the wrong way. Also it is quite good to have so you can save thermal clips (though i don't find it much of a problem, with thermal clips)

Even if i do run out one my assault rifle for example, i still got my pistol, shotgun, sniper rifle and heavy weapon, also tech powers and biotics (squad mates + upgrade for main).

And the fact that you have to pick your shots, so you don't waste ammo is good i think. It requires that you do some thinking rather than firing constantly (except heat) like the way you did in ME 1.

I think ME 2 is a great improvement from ME 1. Honestly i didn't think it could be much better than ME 1, but i guess i was wrong. My greatest joy is the removal of the mako , and world exploring. That was really annoying part for me, i didn't really see a point with it , and thought it had no place in an rpg, and those thresher maws were pretty annoying.

Modifié par Haventh, 10 février 2010 - 01:57 .

[Cf UnrealKiller]

 Not one person has even commented on his terrible English? WTF is going on internet?

[FFLB]

Cf UnrealKiller wrote...

 Not one person has even commented on his terrible English? WTF is going on internet?

Probably because it is the internet, and I assume that most people realize that not everyone speaks English as their first language. Also, people who are sticklers for grammar do get annoying after a while. I wanted to use a different term involving grammar and a certain political group, but then I remembered that that word is censored. Just to make sure, let me check: grammar ****s. Yep, it's censored.

Modifié par FFLB, 10 février 2010 - 05:40 .

[Knightsire]

After finishing the game...my opinion is: ME 2 Combat > ME 1 Combat



However, I rarely play straight-up shooters more than once. I might take one more tour through ME 2 right before ME 3's release, but otherwise...I'm done. I just found that in ME 1 you had much more to do to build up your character and the OP is right...you felt more powerful by end game.



ME2 evolving more into a straight-up shooter must confine you to never acheiving this because then you wouldn't get those red veins showing up all the time while in combat that forces you to take cover. So I think Bioware had to abandon the RPG elements in ME 1 in order to accomplish what it did in ME 2. For this reason, I didn't really feel like the character you create really grows at all by end game and the levels don't really serve a purpose. Bioware could actually find another way to award skill points without having to retain a leveling system.



The inventory was overwhelming in ME 1, but ME 2 didn't actually streamline or improve upon it. They scrapped the original system and replaced it with the upgrades feature. This makes things simpler, but hardly deep. You can only upgrade weapons in a linear progression and so customization only happens when you choose one N7 armor piece upgrade over another or you choose to invest in one skill more deeply than others in your chosen class template.



To me, ME 1 was closer to the kind of gameplay in Fallout 3 for me.

ME 2 seemed closer to Bioshock though.



I enjoy both games for different reasons, but ME 2 definitely sacrificed more of its RPG elements to bring the shooter combat gameplay up to par with it's epic storyline. I can understand why the OP and many people who were looking for improvements to the original system were feeling disappointed with the direction to redevelop these gameplay features instead.

[Sereaph502]

ME2 is an improvement over ME1 in every way.



if Bioware takes how ME2 works and adds more story focus into ME3, it will be amazing. We don't need to cycle through a million weapons, armor, and upgrades all the time.

[Kajan451]

I want alot things changed back. Everything but combat. I want the old navigation interface.. heck i even want the Mako back. That scanning is just plain annoying.

And i want to get rid of Ammunition. I don't want to play scavenger running around the place looking for thermal clips. Even worse, because they seem to be uni size and i can't even decide to use those on my Heavy Pistol for my sniper. No i got to break cover to run around and search supid thermal clips or have to get closer and try to "snipe" with my Pistols.

I am so pissed about Ammo when i am playing Infiltrator.

But the combat overall and the squadcontrol is an improvement. But thats already where it ends with improvements. That stupid fuel system for your normandy? And having to fly the ship myself?

My Shepard stands infront of a Navigation map and plays picards. And i don't want to fly around. I want to tell joker: get us to Illium. And Joker says: Ayeaye sir und EDI calculates the course or whatever she does. I don't want to drag the damn normandy around.

And the scanning? Great you only got 30 or 60 (depends at which point you are) probes.. and then? You have to fly all the way back to buy new ones. Heck the money for fuel and probes doesn't even leave a dent in my wallet. So why even keep that stuff around? As time sink? So i won't notice that this game does basically only around 20 missions in total?

I mean you cut the Elevator Timesinks which actually added to the atmosphere with the news radio or your squadmates talking and implent fuel and probe timesinks forcing people to fly back to the mass relay system with the fuel station.

And about the armors? I loved the armors because i could give my squadmates different looks. (Yes, i actually at times decided not to give them some bright yellow or white and pink armor even if it would give them 20 or more points of protection.) And Tali had a real cool outfit in black and red. Now i can dress them in Cerberus colors? I have exactly one game where i am playing "Pro cerberus" in all the other games... Cerberus can kiss my hindpart. That said... i have to say.. i like the custom N7 Armor of ME2 more. I just wish it would be like that for all my squadmates. To have the option to tint their stuff myself.

On my all Paragon Playthrough i would have loved to even fly to some space station and spend some cash on having them putting a new color onto the normandy just to get rid of the Cerberus stuff.

And what i like the most about ME1 is... my Squadmates didn't just have 4 powers, but like 8 or so. I could really make them different each time. I didn't need 10 people of which i most likely will only use 4 or 5. I had 5 people and could skill them like 10.

I consider ME1 to be superior as game. In Story, in Charprogression and in atmosphere. ME2 is a nice way to carry over into ME3, but except for combat... its no where near ME1.

ME1 with ME2 combat... ohhh that would have been sweet.

[Gocad]

As much as I hate the cover system in ME2, I got to say that ME2 in general (not only combat, but also regarding set and character design) makes ME1 look real bad. Porting the ME1 content to the ME2 system would be really interesting though.

Crossreading most of the "complains/suggestions/demands" threads here makes me think that Bioware has failed to hit their target audience....I even get the impression that some failed to realize that ME2 isn't a dating sim with occasional combat.

Modifié par Gocad, 10 février 2010 - 12:15 .

[Haventh]

Kajan451: You don't run around looking for thermal clips. During missions you can find them on crates, sometimes on the ground after you have killed an enemy or just laying there. And it's kinda hard to miss, since they flash.



And as i said in my earlier post. Shouldn't be a problem if you pick your shots, also infiltrator has tech powers. Later in the game you get more thermal clips, and make more use of the thermal clips (with upgrade).



I think it is rather good that the narrowed down the weapon and armor choices. Personally i found it rather annoying with all those things to chose from. I rather prefer the ME 2 armor and weapon system. And you can change the apperance of your armor in your cabin, i think it is rather neat. If people can't find an armor look they like with that, then i seriously think are too picky. Since you do got alot of choices with diff armor parts, coloring, marks and such.



Honestly, i didn't find the fuel thing to be any problem. I'm not really one to pick on things that doesn't matter.



I don't see a problem with the scanner either (it goes rather fast if you use it right,and i can give a reason why i think resources should stay, for upgrades. Really wouldn't be much fun if upgrades were handed to you, i think it is good you don't get things handed on a silver plate, things tend to get a bit boring then (atleast i think so)). Why would you even want to drive around in the mako in a boring world with just landscape? It is completely useless. I don't understand how people even think the mako system has a place in an rpg. Specially one like Mass Effect, Mass Effect isn't like those adventure games, it is about the story, not exploring uncessesary things.



But this is just personal opinions, and i do in fact have problems understanding somethings, however i do respect other peoples opinions.



On a side note. If Bioware changed the systems so much it is most likely that the majority didn't like the systems in ME 1, or they also might just be looking for a change.

[valttu]

In my opinion combat is more fun now. Faster and more intense. And it's also much more tactical, because you can order each of your squad mates individually, so you can position them smartly, and catch your enemies in crossfire. Also, by combining your squad's powers it's easy to take down your target's defenses, and then you can quickly snipe him down with a few fast headshots. It's more about tactics this time. And the A.I. has been improved, which is a really good thing. (although it's still far from perfect)

[NatPro38]

I've now played ME2 through twice and played at leats half the game with each class and i must say that it has become boring. 
There is no variation in armor even if you can change the color and there is a very limited number of weapons.
In Me1 I enjoyed being able to use a weapon without training in it, I liked how you could set up several weapons for different battles seperatly but for the same type i.e. assualt rifles. all of this was taken away and to me that has defeated the object of what the ME universe was about.
The mako provided hours of hill climbing fun aswell as some interesting glitches like getting one of the dragons teeth stuck in the front of it. (i'll post a picture when i can find it). A hover version just will not be the same. RIP M35.

TBH the old style of equiping and upgrading was better but a hybrid for DLC or ME3 would be the greatest thing they could do for it. 

[BenEar]

Cf UnrealKiller wrote...

 Not one person has even commented on his terrible English? WTF is going on internet?

If you read earlier in the post he talks about how he is just learning english dude.

[michal9o90]

NatPro38 wrote...

I've now played ME2 through twice and played at leats half the game with each class and i must say that it has become boring. 
There is no variation in armor even if you can change the color and there is a very limited number of weapons.
In Me1 I enjoyed being able to use a weapon without training in it, I liked how you could set up several weapons for different battles seperatly but for the same type i.e. assualt rifles. all of this was taken away and to me that has defeated the object of what the ME universe was about.
The mako provided hours of hill climbing fun aswell as some interesting glitches like getting one of the dragons teeth stuck in the front of it. (i'll post a picture when i can find it). A hover version just will not be the same. RIP M35.

TBH the old style of equiping and upgrading was better but a hybrid for DLC or ME3 would be the greatest thing they could do for it. 

Yeah i agree, ME 1 and ME 2 are verry diffrent games, and i like ME1 and ME2, but more prefer Me 1 xD, But if they hybrid system ME1 and ME2 i think this will be the best things, because Everyone will find something for himself.


PS: Yeah my english is bad i again really sorry i said this before, i just learn, so pls forgive me xD

[Kajan451]

Haventh wrote...

Kajan451: You don't run around looking for thermal clips. During missions you can find them on crates, sometimes on the ground after you have killed an enemy or just laying there. And it's kinda hard to miss, since they flash.

And you don't call that running around? Scanning the place for Thermalclips your enemy might droped?

Haventh wrote...
And as i said in my earlier post. Shouldn't be a problem if you pick your shots,

Did i say it was a problem? I said it annoys me to search for Thermal clips. And it does degrade the Fun i am having. The other character classes i played have been a lot more fun, because they weren't so dependant on these stupid thermal clips.

Haventh wrote...
also infiltrator has tech powers.

He got 1 offensive power all others have to be used with guns.

Haventh wrote...
Why would you even want to drive around in the mako in a boring world with just landscape?

Because its more fun as pulling a circle over a turning golfball.

[Knightsire]

Kajan451 wrote...

I want alot things changed back. Everything but combat. I want the old navigation interface.. heck i even want the Mako back. That scanning is just plain annoying.

Yes, scanning is a step back from the Mako excursions in my opinion as well.  There has got to be a timesink that doesn't suck as much as either of these...at the moment, I'm definitely preferring driving around than moving a cursor over a round globe.

And i want to get rid of Ammunition. I don't want to play scavenger running around the place looking for thermal clips. Even worse, because they seem to be uni size and i can't even decide to use those on my Heavy Pistol for my sniper. No i got to break cover to run around and search supid thermal clips or have to get closer and try to "snipe" with my Pistols.

I am so pissed about Ammo when i am playing Infiltrator.

I wonder if either thermal clips could be improved to hold more reserve ammo.  It could make scavenging less of a chore.  Especially, on harder difficulties.

But the combat overall and the squadcontrol is an improvement. But thats already where it ends with improvements. That stupid fuel system for your normandy? And having to fly the ship myself?

My Shepard stands infront of a Navigation map and plays picards. And i don't want to fly around. I want to tell joker: get us to Illium. And Joker says: Ayeaye sir und EDI calculates the course or whatever she does. I don't want to drag the damn normandy around.

I think they made fuel not so costly because the entire concept of limiting where you go based on how much resources you have is sort of counterintuitive to the idea that Bioware games supposedly encourage exploration.  I definitely don't see the payoff though.  I hope DLC will include more content because the N7 missions were much fewer altogether than the Mako mission in ME1.

And the scanning? Great you only got 30 or 60 (depends at which point you are) probes.. and then? You have to fly all the way back to buy new ones. Heck the money for fuel and probes doesn't even leave a dent in my wallet. So why even keep that stuff around? As time sink? So i won't notice that this game does basically only around 20 missions in total?

I mean you cut the Elevator Timesinks which actually added to the atmosphere with the news radio or your squadmates talking and implent fuel and probe timesinks forcing people to fly back to the mass relay system with the fuel station.

And the worst part is that scanning for resources isn't nearly as fun as traveling to planets in ME1 was...at least you got to fight Geth, Rachni, Mercs, etc.  I ended up with about 500-600k iridium, platinum, and palladium as well as over 100k element zero by end game.  I have no idea what to do with it.  This especially doesn't make sense when after saving very carefully my credits throughout the game only to find out I'm 100-200k short of enough money to purchase all the upgrades on the main hub planets.

And about the armors? I loved the armors because i could give my squadmates different looks. (Yes, i actually at times decided not to give them some bright yellow or white and pink armor even if it would give them 20 or more points of protection.) And Tali had a real cool outfit in black and red. Now i can dress them in Cerberus colors? I have exactly one game where i am playing "Pro cerberus" in all the other games... Cerberus can kiss my hindpart. That said... i have to say.. i like the custom N7 Armor of ME2 more. I just wish it would be like that for all my squadmates. To have the option to tint their stuff myself.

On my all Paragon Playthrough i would have loved to even fly to some space station and spend some cash on having them putting a new color onto the normandy just to get rid of the Cerberus stuff.

And what i like the most about ME1 is... my Squadmates didn't just have 4 powers, but like 8 or so. I could really make them different each time. I didn't need 10 people of which i most likely will only use 4 or 5. I had 5 people and could skill them like 10.

I consider ME1 to be superior as game. In Story, in Charprogression and in atmosphere. ME2 is a nice way to carry over into ME3, but except for combat... its no where near ME1.

ME1 with ME2 combat... ohhh that would have been sweet.

I agree with all your points here 100%.

Modifié par Knightsire, 11 février 2010 - 04:44 .