793 réponses à ce sujet

[DesetFox1943]

Personally, I think Bioware wanted to avoid Fox news coming down on them again saying SEX BOX HURRR!!!

[SethSteiner]

Who cares for Fox? They have nearly no influence at all apart from giving youtube something to lough about.

[Yrkoon]

VanDraegon wrote...

Cant blame the Devs really, they are only human after all.

No, they're not. They're gods.  Gods who create  worlds and universes.    They're artists.      And what did they do?     Why, They  decided to  bow down and prostrate themselves before their lessers, that's what, compromising their own artistic visions  in order to appease society's lowest common denominator:  The morality police.

The fact that they're turning around now and DENYING this  truth, and  instead,  pretending that it was their artistic vision all along to make the sex scenes  tamer.... is nausiating me immensely.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 06 février 2010 - 05:31 .

[AntiChri5]

The problem is that Bioware wants to have their cake and eat it too. Nothing vaugely approaching nudity dring sex scenes but you can get your secretary to give you a private half naked dance.

[Bendok]

It's not really about the nude pixels... it's about giving in to the man, so to speak. I think most of us just wanted Bioware to flip the proverbial bird to Fox News, Jack Thompson and the like.



The scenes in ME1 showed that Bioware wasn't afraid to take the next step. It's hard to show nudity like that in a game and have it still be tasteful and not incite laughter when you first see it. ME1 succeeded but obviously someone at Bioware or EA thought differently. I really thought they were taking new steps for the medium, and no it's just because of nudity, it's about adding things to games that traditionally aren't there. Not only sex but meaningful relationships with virtual NPCs (which bioware still achieved) and other stuff that would rely on trusting the player to take it seriously.

[PSUHammer]

The absurdity of this whole "issue" is laughable. Who the f**k cares? It's artistic license. Don't play it if all you wanted was a pixelated side boob.



NERDS!

[Flash_in_the_flesh]

I'm shocked by the level of reading comprehension here. People did you even read OP? The way BW explain the lack of nudity in Mass Effect 2 deny their own words used to defend nudity in ME1. That's the point, not the lack of nudity.

Modifié par Flash_in_the_flesh, 06 février 2010 - 05:39 .

[Console Cowboy]

Hammer6767 wrote...

The absurdity of this whole "issue" is laughable. Who the f**k cares? It's artistic license. Don't play it if all you wanted was a pixelated side boob.

NERDS!

posting on a science fiction video game social forum invalidates the Nerd Card, bro.

Modifié par Console Cowboy, 06 février 2010 - 05:41 .

[Tleining]

@ Evil Johnny

What is bad is how they dealt with it. Again, read the OP, Aquilas point is quite clear.

They had the right to change it, of course, they made the game. But instead of calling us immature for expecting the same kind of intimacy in the Romance Scenes, they could simply have said, that they wanted to try it in another way, and that they felt, that it was the right thing to do.



They had every right to change it, but by changing it without giving a reason, they invited questions about censorship. And in reaction to it, they call Fans who expected them to stand by that previous statement immature.



One last thing, this is my personal opinion, so please don't try to convince me how wrong i am: I loved the romance in ME1, how we were building it up, and how it came to the night spend together. And the morning afterwards. There was a relationship, two people feeling something for each other.

In ME2 i missed that. It is not about nudity, it is about how they handled it. I succesfully completed the romance with Tali, Miranda and Jack. I didn't felt/see any intimacy. Miranda was a quick stripshow and a few kisses, Tali was one kiss - okay, it was sweet, her risking her health for Shep like that, but still. Jack is the one relationship were something like intimacy could actually be seen. How she had been hurt, alot, and now was willing to trust you like that. But that was it. No "After this is over, we have to talk about us".

As far as femsheps relationships go, i only watched them on youtube. But i couldn't see a lot of difference. Jacob the one-night-stand, Garrus preparing for a suicide mission (Garrus had reach, she had flexibility) again, and finally Thane, where a little intimacy could be seen.



But all those relationships were basically one-night-stands. You had no problem breaking it off with one and going for the other. There was no depth/intimacy in those relationships.



And apparently i am immature for expecting something like that in a game from Bioware.

Well, i will stay immature. I hope that the romances in ME3 will be more like in ME1. Not the nudity. But the trust and intimacy shown by the characters.

[The Demonologist]

Yrkoon wrote...

VanDraegon wrote...

Cant blame the Devs really, they are only human after all.

No, they're not. They're gods.  Gods who create  worlds and universes.    They're artists.      And what did they do?     Why, They  decided to  bow down and prostrate themselves before their lessers, that's what, compromising their own artistic visions  in order to appease society's lowest common denominator:  The morality police.

The fact that they're turning around now and DENYING this  truth, and  instead,  pretending that it was their artistic vision all along to make the sex scenes  tamer.... is nausiating me immensely.

All that can really be said here is that one shouldn't speak for the Devs, as they aren't a Dev them self.

[Aquilas]

Once again I say, and for the last time in this thread--I am not whining about the lack of partial nudity or more explicit sex scenes in ME2, or DA:O. That is, that they're not there, and I want them there.



I'm commenting on Mr. Woo's (and other BioWare executives') assertion that these omissions, and those in DA:O, are due to purely artistic preferences and aesthetic choices. And on Mr. Woo's response to criticisim that the complainers are immature. He doesn't label all such complainers as immature, true, but the brush he uses paints a broad swath.



Please note that I acknowledge Mr. Woo's right to choose what content his games include. But BioWare already included--and defended--partial nudity in ME1, and now have omitted it in ME2. I'm not accusing Mr. Woo of self-censorship--I don't have to. It's clear he's already done it.



Marketability and profitability for game developers are in keen focus right now. Read some of the articles on EA's financial performance, in particular. So admit it, BioWare--commercial concerns were key factors in determining what sexual content was or wasn't included in ME2. You have to keep the doors open and the lights on, after all. Say so.

[Laterali]

Yrkoon wrote...

VanDraegon wrote...

Cant blame the Devs really, they are only human after all.

No, they're not. They're gods.  Gods who create  worlds and universes.    They're artists.      And what did they do?     Why, They  decided to  bow down and prostrate themselves before their lessers, that's what, compromising their own artistic visions  in order to appease society's lowest common denominator:  The morality police.

The fact that they're turning around now and DENYING this  truth, and  instead,  pretending that it was their artistic vision all along to make the sex scenes  tamer.... is nausiating me immensely.

Seriously? You're taking it that far? Your head must come off your shoulders and spin like a top when you come across an actual injustice if this is how you react to something like as insignificant as this.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Tleining wrote...

@ Evil Johnny
What is bad is how they dealt with it. Again, read the OP, Aquilas point is quite clear.
They had the right to change it, of course, they made the game. But instead of calling us immature for expecting the same kind of intimacy in the Romance Scenes, they could simply have said, that they wanted to try it in another way, and that they felt, that it was the right thing to do.

They had every right to change it, but by changing it without giving a reason, they invited questions about censorship. And in reaction to it, they call Fans who expected them to stand by that previous statement immature.

One last thing, this is my personal opinion, so please don't try to convince me how wrong i am: I loved the romance in ME1, how we were building it up, and how it came to the night spend together. And the morning afterwards. There was a relationship, two people feeling something for each other.
In ME2 i missed that. It is not about nudity, it is about how they handled it. I succesfully completed the romance with Tali, Miranda and Jack. I didn't felt/see any intimacy. Miranda was a quick stripshow and a few kisses, Tali was one kiss - okay, it was sweet, her risking her health for Shep like that, but still. Jack is the one relationship were something like intimacy could actually be seen. How she had been hurt, alot, and now was willing to trust you like that. But that was it. No "After this is over, we have to talk about us".
As far as femsheps relationships go, i only watched them on youtube. But i couldn't see a lot of difference. Jacob the one-night-stand, Garrus preparing for a suicide mission (Garrus had reach, she had flexibility) again, and finally Thane, where a little intimacy could be seen.

But all those relationships were basically one-night-stands. You had no problem breaking it off with one and going for the other. There was no depth/intimacy in those relationships.

And apparently i am immature for expecting something like that in a game from Bioware.
Well, i will stay immature. I hope that the romances in ME3 will be more like in ME1. Not the nudity. But the trust and intimacy shown by the characters.

Ok I respect your opinion but I have something to add. They probably called some people immature because they thought/think that they want to see ****** in a game. Second, I don't know if I'm alone in this, but while the romance subplots were entertaining, I found them rather hard to believe. I think it shows Bioware are way better in writing a good sci-fi plot than romances ones, because it pretty much always felt very awkward to me.

[gamay32]

Although a bit zealous and vociferous, the OP does make something of a point. Personally, I don't play the game for nudity, romance or companionship, and alien sex never really did it for me. Different strokes for different folks being what it is, I don't have a problem that some want the nudity and sex in games, as long as it is properly marked, which, being as this is labeled M for mature, would suggest that.



My whole beef with the romances in almost any game is that it boils down to, "'Sup!' Sup!' 'I really like you.' 'You do? I like you too!' 'I'm glad we talked about this finally.'" Then, later on, they have clumsy, unromantic and uninspired sex. They probably censor it because it would turn most of us off sex, actually. You can't date, argue, cuddle...in short, there really is no actual connection ever made, and it doesn't simulate anything but the basest of crude hook-ups, which, if that is what you are into, more power to you, but it isn't real. Honestly, it'd be better to just leave the romances out of the game and focus more on the gameplay and experience unless they are going to actually dedicate real resources to it.



With that said, I won't lie and say that I don't totally appreciate Ms. Lawson's esquisite design, particularly that awesome back porch she is sporting. Is it modeled after Andressa Soares? Looks like it, to me. The man/woman that arranged those pixels deserves an award for best ass in a video game, but that is just my opinion. And the seedy nightclub, Afterlife, is really brought to life with rather realistic exotic dancers, even if they are alien, although, after awhile, the strippers showing up in nearly every club you go to gets a bit old.



There is also the fact that Bioware did add everything up to the point of actual penetration and actual nipple/genital showing. So, for them to say that they made a "mature" choice to not include a more or better simulated love-making is a rather empty argument, but it is their game. If they want to lie to themselves over it, I don't really care. I appreciate the game for what it does have, and not what it doesn't. I find I am happier that way. :-)



Still....sex with tentacle heads? Really?? Would also be nice if there was a bit more variety in body-type among the humanoids. All the girls are 5'5"-ish, all the men are around 6'2"-ish, with the former never over 110lbs, and the latter all around 180lbs. Honestly, unless this is the pinnacle of Mass Effect technology. ;-)



Cheers!

[Yrkoon]

Laterali wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

VanDraegon wrote...

Cant blame the Devs really, they are only human after all.

No, they're not. They're gods.  Gods who create  worlds and universes.    They're artists.      And what did they do?     Why, They  decided to  bow down and prostrate themselves before their lessers, that's what, compromising their own artistic visions  in order to appease society's lowest common denominator:  The morality police.

The fact that they're turning around now and DENYING this  truth, and  instead,  pretending that it was their artistic vision all along to make the sex scenes  tamer.... is nausiating me immensely.

Seriously? You're taking it that far? Your head must come off your shoulders and spin like a top when you come across an actual injustice if this is how you react to something like as insignificant as this.

No, not really.  And you're stating an opinion as fact here.  Some of us have been buying and playing  Bioware games for over a decade.   Thus, these comments from Woo are hardly  insignificant.   IF he speaks for Bioware's Devs  (which is a big If btw..., last I checked he wasn't a dev, but rather, the QA director), then this is indeed a big deal, because  shows us the dishonest, and condescending  mindset of the company,  as well as the  Artistic  direction that the  Development team is moving towards.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 06 février 2010 - 06:16 .

[Drakron]

Eh, I love how the M rating works.

Lets see Mass Effect 2.

Rating: Mature
Content descriptors: Blood, Drug Reference, Sexual Content, Strong Language, Violence

We all know ESRB does not issue a rating based on playing the game, the developer sends a list of what is included in the game (yes, its a "honor" system .... we learned that when Bethsoft did not considered the corpses that littered the Oblivion Planes to be very offensive).

Now I am confused abiut the content descriptions since ... blood? WERE? you mean the stain on the Jack mission since that is about it.

Drug Reference? I supposed there are references to FANTASY DRUGS OF THE FUTURE! like Red Sand but really, what the heck?

Strong Language? oh yes, dropping F bombs is a sign of maturity as I anyone can tell with Teenagers. (granted, I know why its there but its just amusing equating what tends to be rather inmature with being mature content)

Violence ... ok, there are some beatings but heck I seen about the same in PG rated movies.

Sexual Content ... I supposed the IMPLIED sexual content since I seen none of it, unless those lame cutscenes that would are tame enough to not even warrent a PG rating are it.

Sorry there is nothing "M" in Mass Effect 2 ... ESRB sould issue a new rating of Teen as its pretty much what it is.

Modifié par Drakron, 06 février 2010 - 06:14 .

[Ariq007]

I sincerely doubt that Bioware engaged in 'self-censorship' simply to prevent some kind of controversy over the whole nudity/sexuality thing. It seems typical that whenever one of these types of 'scandals' take place, it ends up helping the game gain popularity rather than bringing it down, therefor I think it's just an artistic decision, plain and simple.



Also, after reading the article myself, I did not find Stanley Woo's arguments to be condescending or unfair.



It can be difficult to make a good love scene, whether it's for a video game or a Hollywood movie, and the one in Mass Effect was one of the best I've ever seen. On the other hand, the scenes in Dragon Age have room for improvement, I thought. But anyway, as for the whole nudity/no nudity thing, sometimes it works to include it, sometimes it doesn't. And often what you don't see explicitly is sexier than what you do see.

[Gorn Kregore]

rofl no nudity in the game im so sad!!!!! i wanted 2 ****** on my pixelated LI!!!!!!

[JensenBakura]

Aquilas wrote...

http://www.cinemable...Boob-22724.html
 
Mr. Woo, I don't like being treated as if I'm stupid.  Does BioWare have the right to choose not to include nudity or partial nudity in a game?  Of course it does.  But it shouldn’t lash out at fans who remark on an obvious inconsistency from ME1 to ME2.  I won’t take the bait in responding to insults regarding my maturity or lack thereof.  Because in my judgment, BioWare’s choice represents compromising its philosophy, perhaps even a core principle, BioWare defended in ME1.
 
Putting personal attacks on fan maturity aside, it is very reasonable to conclude BioWare chose not to include any partial nudity in ME2 because it’s reacting to criticism by the "morality police.”  Why would BioWare do that?  To increase its customer base, hence profitability.  For BioWare to claim such omissions are purely an artistic choice is disingenuous at best.
 
How can we conclude this?  Because BioWare included partial nudity in ME1—and affirmed its right to do so, vociferously and forcefully, when challenged by the "morality police.”  BioWare maintained it needed to be faithful in depicting adult, intimate relationships without being prurient, but honest.  People do get naked, or at least partially naked, to have sex.  During that time BioWare told Fox News--and other critics--that it was the critics who needed to be mature and adult about tasteful, intimate elements in ME1.  And now BioWare labels as immature fans who criticize BioWare's choice in ME2: a choice to omit content included in ME1.  Are some of these ME2 fan criticisms juvenile?  You betcha.  But many are thoughtful and mature.
 
Concomitantly, BioWare has claimed that omitting nudity or partial nudity in Dragon Age: Origins was an "aesthetic choice."  Seriously?  That "aesthetic" choice resulted in Morrigan showing less breast in love scenes than she did in her standard outfit.  So her lovemaking attire was more modest than her walking-around clothes—she had to dress up to have sex.  Aesthetic choice?  Please.
 
Much has been written about changes to the combat and inventory gameplay elements in ME2 to make it more of a shooter, so I’m not going to address those here.  But I give BioWare credit for being more open—if more than a bit subtle, too—in admitting those changes were not only in response to fan suggestions but also to increase ME2’s marketability.  We know this because BioWare has said several times, in several interviews, it’s trying to broaden Mass Effect 2’s appeal, to attract a player who may not have considered it before.  That means marketability and profitability.  One writer in these forums has called ME2 “Gears of War with Interactive Dialogue.”  I think that’s an overstatement, but it captures many fans’ feelings.  I think BioWare has been more honest in discussing shooter changes than those involving intimate content.
 
I think ME2 is a worthy successor to ME1.  I enjoy the story, the character development, and yes, the combat system.  Unlike some writers, I think the story arc flows well from ME1 to ME2, and some plot developments pleasantly surprised me.

 What I don’t like is BioWare condescending to fans who raise legitimate concerns about changes in intimate content from ME1 to ME2—concerns based on obvious incongruities in BioWare’s own stated philosophy and goals in game development.  I’d have much more respect if BioWare just flatly stated it abandoned nudity or partial nudity in ME2 because it wanted to enhance ME2’s profitably: it wanted to meet standards and goals Bobby Kotick has stated plainly—and honestly—many times.  That would show respect for BioWare’s fans—not disdain.

I liked ME2's romance cutscenes better than ME1's and DA:O's.

I understand why some of the ladies feel cheated with Garrus, but I thought all the romance scenes were very well done.

I really hope ME3 follows the ME2 model.

As for Stanley Woo - I've never thought of him as much of a diplomat, but I just ignore his outbursts...he does have to deal with a lot of whining.

Modifié par JensenBakura, 06 février 2010 - 06:26 .

[thompsonaf]

Thread OP has so much NERD-RAGE his head might explode.

[MrBlazay]

I agree with the op.

[deadshame]

Is nudity really that important? I can't believe how many ****ing people are ****ing about it. Sure, the side boob in ME1 was pretty epic, but its not like ME2 is worse for not having it. The scenes in ME2 were each different and wonderfully done. I would take that over Liara's side boob any day...well some days.

[Yrkoon]

deadshame wrote...

Is nudity really that important? I can't believe how many ****ing people are ****ing about it.

And I can't believe how many people  think this thread is about nudity/lack of nudity in ME2.

There's only been, what, 8, 9 people in the last 2 pages  pointing out that the OP IS NOT ABOUT THAT- PLEASE READ IT.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 06 février 2010 - 06:40 .

[KBlaut]

Just wondered if Bioware really was in Canada because the way they view nudity sure doesn't accompany their location. Seems like people in NA are offended by nudity and think it corrupts or something while a European audience wouldn't bat an eye about it. It's a shame that Bioware continues to perpuate this idea that wanting to see nudity and sex in a media such as this is either offensive or unnecessary. If they put nudity in let's say SMG or something then yes, I could put up the argument then some have put into this thread. However, Mass Effect is a cinematic experience and it should not be taboo to put some form of softcore scene in there. Thankfully, there are developers with some sense like CD Projekt.



Finally, stop saying that because people like to see nudity they are "perverts", it's that attitude that keeps you in the stone age regarding sexuality while everyone else moves on.

[daoster]

Aquilas wrote...

Marketability and profitability for game developers are in keen focus right now. Read some of the articles on EA's financial performance, in particular. So admit it, BioWare--commercial concerns were key factors in determining what sexual content was or wasn't included in ME2. You have to keep the doors open and the lights on, after all. Say so.

Dante's Inferno, an EA game, has pulled some publicity stunts that practically invite controversy.  Their Super Bowl AD was to be too risque that CBS was deciding whether or not to cut it (if they haven't cut it already).  

I don't think either Bioware or EA are shying away from "sexual content" or the like because they're afraid it hurts their bottom line, because if that was true...a game like Dante's Inferno probably wouldn't exist.  

Modifié par daoster, 06 février 2010 - 06:48 .