793 réponses à ce sujet

[Vlainstrike]

Something that occurred to me - if we are to believe (as some in this thread have tried to infer) that remaining clothed during sex is an artistic choice rather than bowing to marketing & media pressures, what exactly is the message?

In other words, assuming that artistic decisions are meant to have some sort of impact on the audience, what meaningful revelation is the artist trying to convey about romantic sexual encounters by keeping the participants clothed?  Given that, for some odd reason, most people choose to have sex without clothing.

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 09 février 2010 - 01:43 .

[Palathas]

I thought the level of nudity, or lack there of, was fine. It wouldn't have made any impact on the story either way. Well not for me anyway.

Modifié par Palathas, 09 février 2010 - 02:07 .

[The Demonologist]

Seems to me like they moreso portrayed the foreplay leading up to the act, rather than the actual act.



Then there's things like designing a naked Garrus. That's its own set of troubles.



Contributing factors? Methinks so.

[Vlainstrike]

The Demonologist wrote...

Seems to me like they moreso portrayed the foreplay leading up to the act, rather than the actual act.

Then there's things like designing a naked Garrus. That's its own set of troubles.

Contributing factors? Methinks so.

Heh, well keep in mind that being nude doesn't automatically necessitate close up shots of alien genitalia.

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 09 février 2010 - 01:45 .

[The Demonologist]

It's not that. It's the unclothed Turian model that presents the challenge.

I imagine it being something akin to Volus without suits. We're not going to see it.

Modifié par The Demonologist, 09 février 2010 - 01:47 .

[Vlainstrike]

The Demonologist wrote...

It's not that. It's the unclothed Turian model that presents the challenge.

I imagine it being something akin to Volus without suits. We're not going to see it.

Now I'm curious.  That's an interesting perspective - so are you saying the creating the Turian model presents extra technical challenges or that turian physical structure is being maintained as something of a 'game secret' akin to 'what does tali really look like under that mask?'?

[Khavos]

Vlainstrike wrote...

Something that occurred to me - if we are to believe (as some in this thread have tried to infer) that remaining clothed during sex is an artistic choice rather than bowing to marketing & media pressures, what exactly is the message?

In other words, assuming that artistic decisions are meant to have some sort of impact on the audience, what meaningful revelation is the artist trying to convey about romantic sexual encounters by keeping the participants clothed?  Given that, for some odd reason, most people choose to have sex without clothing.

I haven't seen anyone try to infer that.  Matter of fact?  I said I thought Bioware made the change in how the "sex scenes" were portrayed based in large part on the vicious idiocy of Fox and the conservative media diaspora.

That does not change the fact that BIOWARE CHOSE TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES, for whatever reason seemed best to them.  That is ALL that Woo was saying.  He hasn't denied that media response played a part.  He hasn't confirmed it either.  He's ONLY said that the decision was ultimately the responsibility of the development team.

I don't know how I can make this more clear.

(e) And what's the message of half the members of a squad of elite galactic badasses wearing street clothes into combat?  Some things don't have messages.  Some people read way too much into the lack of ****** in a video game, apparently. 

Modifié par Khavos, 09 février 2010 - 01:53 .

[The Demonologist]

Vlainstrike wrote...

The Demonologist wrote...

It's not that. It's the unclothed Turian model that presents the challenge.

I imagine it being something akin to Volus without suits. We're not going to see it.

Now I'm curious.  That's an interesting perspective - so are you saying the creating the Turian model presents extra technical challenges or that turian physical structure is being maintained as something of a 'game secret' akin to 'what does tali really look like under that mask?'?

I'm thinking a mixture. As you'll hear from, say, Grunt, you don't often see a Turian out of armor/clothes/whathaveyou.

They're also VERY non-humanoid. For the same reason we wouldn't see them uncovered, we won't see a Krogan without clothes covering the 'hump' or other features like that. For some reason, they represent an artistic grey area that people just decide to avoid.

Then there's the whole 'meh, I dun' wanna.' factor. It was easy with Liara, because she's just got blue skinned girl parts. But.... not so simple with Garrus. Or Tali. And, if we were to drift off into preposterous territory, a Krogan.

Like I said, I don't think its the sole reason, but it could be one of the contributing factors.

Yes people, blame it on Garrus. And our beloved Tali. 

Honestly at this point I don't give a damn whether they bowed to media pressure or not, I just wanna know why. My curiousity demands closure. 

Modifié par The Demonologist, 09 février 2010 - 01:57 .

[Khavos]

The Demonologist wrote...

Honestly at this point I don't give a damn whether they bowed to media pressure or not, I just wanna know why. My curiousity demands closure. 

It was probably media pressure.  And certain lead voice actresses not wanting digital representations of themselves getting naked.  And possibly a bunch of animators not wanting to spend a couple months figuring out how to make a dude's ass look juuuuuuust right. 

[Khavos]

Other options: they realized they were just doing fanservice at this point and didn't think anybody would really care, 'cause, ya know, it's an extraordinarily sleazebag move for a combat unit commanding officer to bang direct subordinates in the first place.

Modifié par Khavos, 09 février 2010 - 02:01 .

[Wicked 702]

Khavos wrote...

The Demonologist wrote...

Honestly at this point I don't give a damn whether they bowed to media pressure or not, I just wanna know why. My curiousity demands closure. 

It was probably media pressure.  And certain lead voice actresses not wanting digital representations of themselves getting naked.  And possibly a bunch of animators not wanting to spend a couple months figuring out how to make a dude's ass look juuuuuuust right. 

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Oh man. I have friends of friends that work in the industry, particularly those that work in digital animation or overlaying animation in cut scenes. This is probably some of their worst nightmares. Or at least something that a sufficient amount of mockery and degradation would make their worst nightmares. Genious...

[Vlainstrike]

Khavos wrote...

Vlainstrike wrote...

Something that occurred to me - if we are to believe (as some in this thread have tried to infer) that remaining clothed during sex is an artistic choice rather than bowing to marketing & media pressures, what exactly is the message?

In other words, assuming that artistic decisions are meant to have some sort of impact on the audience, what meaningful revelation is the artist trying to convey about romantic sexual encounters by keeping the participants clothed?  Given that, for some odd reason, most people choose to have sex without clothing.

I haven't seen anyone try to infer that.  Matter of fact?  I said I thought Bioware made the change in how the "sex scenes" were portrayed based in large part on the vicious idiocy of Fox and the conservative media diaspora.

That does not change the fact that BIOWARE CHOSE TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES, for whatever reason seemed best to them.  That is ALL that Woo was saying.  He hasn't denied that media response played a part.  He hasn't confirmed it either.  He's ONLY said that the decision was ultimately the responsibility of the development team.

I don't know how I can make this more clear.

Well then, if you haven't seen anyone try to infer that, then it must not have happened right? 

Anyway, you don't have to make it any more clear... to me at least, I agree with you, as I have also argued, repeatedly, that their choice was based in no small part on media & marketing pressures. 

But there are those who have argued against me, saying things like, 'you can't prove their motives without a video clip' or some such nonsense.  To which I explained how I don't need proof to make strong inferential/deductive arguments on an issue.

And for someone to suggest that I need video proof to make an argument, logically infers that Bioware must have alternative motivations for their decisions other than what I have deduced (otherwise everyone would just accept my opinion as fact).  Which begs the question, what could those alternative motivations be?  Which is why I made the post you quoted.

Get it?

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 09 février 2010 - 02:16 .

[Khavos]

Vlainstrike wrote...

Khavos wrote...

Vlainstrike wrote...

Something that occurred to me - if we are to believe (as some in this thread have tried to infer) that remaining clothed during sex is an artistic choice rather than bowing to marketing & media pressures, what exactly is the message?

In other words, assuming that artistic decisions are meant to have some sort of impact on the audience, what meaningful revelation is the artist trying to convey about romantic sexual encounters by keeping the participants clothed?  Given that, for some odd reason, most people choose to have sex without clothing.

I haven't seen anyone try to infer that.  Matter of fact?  I said I thought Bioware made the change in how the "sex scenes" were portrayed based in large part on the vicious idiocy of Fox and the conservative media diaspora.

That does not change the fact that BIOWARE CHOSE TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES, for whatever reason seemed best to them.  That is ALL that Woo was saying.  He hasn't denied that media response played a part.  He hasn't confirmed it either.  He's ONLY said that the decision was ultimately the responsibility of the development team.

I don't know how I can make this more clear.

Well then, if you haven't seen anyone try to infer that, then it must not have happened right? 

Anyway, you don't have to make it any more clear... to me at least, I agree with you, as I have also argued, repeatedly, that their choice was based in no small part on media & marketing pressures. 

But there are those who have argued against me, saying things like, 'you can't prove their motives without a video clip' or some such nonsense.  To which I explained how I don't need proof to make strong inferential/deductive arguments on an issue.

And for someone to suggest that I need video proof to make an argument, logically infers that Bioware must have alternative motivations for their decisions other than what I have deduced (otherwise everyone would just accept my opinion as fact).  Which begs the question, what could those alternative motivations be?  Which is why I made the post you quoted.

Get it?

Then you need to be in a different thread, because this one is about people getting extraordinarily upset that Stanley Woo stated that game developers make the decisions about the games they're designing, not the fans. 

[pedal2metal]

Vlainstrike wrote...

Something that occurred to me - if we are to believe (as some in this thread have tried to infer) that remaining clothed during sex is an artistic choice rather than bowing to marketing & media pressures, what exactly is the message?

In other words, assuming that artistic decisions are meant to have some sort of impact on the audience, what meaningful revelation is the artist trying to convey about romantic sexual encounters by keeping the participants clothed?  Given that, for some odd reason, most people choose to have sex without clothing.

Are you kidding me?  Haven't you ever heard of foreplay?  The engine room wasn't sex!  Most adults move into sex in a progressive manner, even between married couples who have known each other for years/decades (been married 20 yrs myself w/3 kids so I'm not some hypothesizing high-school sophomore), not in .1 seconds.  Geez...  ME2 may not have gone to the next logical step after the engine room but to suggest that the engine room type of interaction isn't realistic or natural just doesn't wash.  It's completely natural & enticing.  To remove foreplay as a part of the natural process of sexual intimacy is to destroy the romance & just make it about sex.  So perhaps the artist is trying to convey a natural sense of progression in a genuine romantic manner (vs. just "jump in the sack") & let the gamer take it from there once it's clear that the love interest is willing & able.
I can understand the folks that wanted to see it progress naturally to the next level in the captain's quarters but to suggest that the engine room was sex is ludicrous.  It's foreplay, not sex.

best regards,
Pedal2Metal

Modifié par pedal2metal, 09 février 2010 - 02:13 .

[Vlainstrike]

Mr. Woo did in fact say that business considerations affect every decsions, which directly infers that business considerations affected the current issue as well, in this very thread, so perhaps the thread topic has evolved into greater things than you would try to force upon it.

...need to be in a different thread... please...

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 09 février 2010 - 02:15 .

[Khavos]

pedal2metal wrote...

I can understand the folks that wanted to see it progress naturally to the next level in the captain's quarters but to suggest that the engine room was sex is ludicrous.  It's foreplay, not sex.

Then you're a step ahead of me, man, 'cause I still don't get it.  

[Khavos]

Vlainstrike wrote...

Mr. Woo did in fact say that business considerations affect every decsions, which directly infers that business considerations affected the current issue as well, in this very thread, so perhaps the thread topic has evolved into greater things than you would try to force upon it.

He did.  I've said that countless times myself.  He's said it, I've said it, everyone who was capable of understanding the guy's analogy has said it.

Everyone, Woo himself included, admits that it's possible Bioware made decisions about how much alien sideboob they'd be putting in ME2 based on business.  Everyone.  Woo's stated he won't confirm or deny either way.

You have your answer, yet here you are, tilting away at remarkably insignificant windmills. 

[pedal2metal]

Khavos wrote...

pedal2metal wrote...

I can understand the folks that wanted to see it progress naturally to the next level in the captain's quarters but to suggest that the engine room was sex is ludicrous.  It's foreplay, not sex.

Then you're a step ahead of me, man, 'cause I still don't get it.  

Yeah, that's a bit of a spoiler.  Sorry about that...

[Vlainstrike]

Khavos wrote...

Vlainstrike wrote...

Mr. Woo did in fact say that business considerations affect every decsions, which directly infers that business considerations affected the current issue as well, in this very thread, so perhaps the thread topic has evolved into greater things than you would try to force upon it.

He did.  I've said that countless times myself.  He's said it, I've said it, everyone who was capable of understanding the guy's analogy has said it.

Everyone, Woo himself included, admits that it's possible Bioware made decisions about how much alien sideboob they'd be putting in ME2 based on business.  Everyone.  Woo's stated he won't confirm or deny either way.

You have your answer, yet here you are, tilting away at remarkably insignificant windmills. 

Perhaps that's because I was never arguing with mr woo, or looking for an answer from him, I was arguing with people who disagree with me on the topics being discussed as the thread evolved.  Are you such a egotistical hypocrit that you think the whole thread revolves around you and your comments and that everyone else should just shut up once the great Khavos has spoken? 

Well you'd beter get over yourself, because you don't dictate to me who I can and can't argue with on a public forum.

[Khavos]

Vlainstrike wrote...

Well you'd beter get over yourself, because you don't dictate to me who I can and can't argue with on a public forum.

Remarkably hypocritical advice, but you're absolutely right.  I do not dictate how enraged you're allowed to get over the lack of nudity in your video game.

By all means, continue.

[Torhagen]

Palathas wrote...

I thought the level of nudity, or lack there of, was fine. It wouldn't have made any impact on the story either way. Well not for me anyway.

Bioware has nothing to be ashamed of the Romance Scene was a fresh wind and fitting.
I am kind of dissapointed that they cracked because some people from a third class station like fox laid pressure on them.
The kind of Propaganda that is spread from that station is unbelieveable it hard for me to believe that they are allowed to broadcast such bull....

Please Bioware although you belong to the giant named EA be bold again.:innocent:

[Khavos]

Torhagen wrote...
Please Bioware although you belong to the giant named EA be bold again.:innocent:

Have you played the latest game to be released through EA, Dante's Inferno?

Something tells me EA isn't overly concerned with nudity. 

[Wicked 702]

Khavos wrote...

Torhagen wrote...
Please Bioware although you belong to the giant named EA be bold again.:innocent:

Have you played the latest game to be released through EA, Dante's Inferno?

Something tells me EA isn't overly concerned with nudity. 

Thank you for reminding me what I have to look forward to tomorrow morning. Though I am still iffy as to whether that game is going to be awesome or fail horribly.

[DirtyNinja81]

Nudity in a game? It turns it into a porn! It ruins it!



Just look at God of War, nudity completely ruined that game.

[Fexelea]

Khavos wrote...


Then you need to be in a different thread, because this one is about people getting extraordinarily upset that Stanley Woo stated that game developers make the decisions about the games they're designing, not the fans. 

I thought we had established that the objective of this thread, as direcly referenced in the title, is not that.