793 réponses à ce sujet

[Khavos]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I figured as much. Your behavior does not fit a topic in which maturity is key.

I'm starting to worry that you guys are being serious when you say things like that.

[Fexelea]

@Khavos



I have read plenty of posts, I chose to comment on some.



The title of the thread, and the original post, are relevant and valid sources to determine the theme of the thread. The further postings by Stanley only verify what the focus of the discussion was: the manner. My responses to you have been on that particular argument, and I would not have reponded again had you not once more stated the opposite. The quantity of people argueing about a sub-theme has no impact on the original theme, which is what a thread is about. Conversations devolving into many conversations is a common occurence that does not retroactively change the subject matter.



You don't need to believe me regarding my emotions. It is irrelevant. Your assumption that I have a "thread closed" criteria is also irrelevant, and I don't see myself as being here argueing over what he said. I was simply commenting that I think your take on the thread was mistaken, and I have been more than accomodating to explain to your in detail and with civility why.



As usual, I will continue to frequent, read and post in whichever thread and forum I see fit.

[Macq Daddy]

The Tony Show wrote...

Macq Daddy wrote...

Personally, I'd prefer that if they're going to go with the "mostly clothed love scenes" for ME3 (for whatever reason), I would prefer they simply fade-to-black after the first kiss (or whatever) and let that be that. In other words more along the lines of the Tali scene than Miranda or Jack's. The whole "Sex with all our clothes on" just comes across as very silly looking, and for me, at least, pulls me right out of the game.

Read this.  It will blow your mind.

http://dictionary.re...browse/foreplay

I'm well aware of the concept of foreplay.  That doesn't make the love scenes of ME2 (or Dragon Age, for that matter) look any less silly to me.  I'm sorry that my opinion is apparently unfathomable to you.

[Kwonnern]

It is a combination of what happened at the FOX-debacle (fear of losing customers due to bad press) and EA wanting to "sanitize" the content, making it more family friendly.



Those with the gold, make the rules.



The condescending Woo-statement you people focus on is all Woo though, completely personal (what Stanley Woo thinks about some people) and has nothing to do with the company.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Khavos wrote...

I personally find nothing at all tasteful about the depiction of the commanding officer of a combat unit seducing enlisted personnel under his direct command.  Whether or not there's ass in it is irrelevant.  But that's me.

People have asked for and received clarification.  People have also been told that the issue's not going to be clarified further. 

So wheres the arguement if you agree they weren't handled as well as ME1's? Or were you including ME1 in that statement?

[Kwonnern]

Crawling_Chaos wrote...
You see, I never asked to be taken seriously, and I have no stake in this thread.

The question is not what "stakes" you have in anything, but if you want your posts to be read and replied to or if you want to be reported for mindless spamming.

What's it gonna be?

[Khavos]

Fexelea wrote...

You don't need to believe me regarding my emotions. It is irrelevant. Your assumption that I have a "thread closed" criteria is also irrelevant, and I don't see myself as being here argueing over what he said. I was simply commenting that I think your take on the thread was mistaken, and I have been more than accomodating to explain to your in detail and with civility why.

Then I'm going to have to stop giving you any sort of credibility whatsoever.  I can point to several pages' worth of back and forth over the validity of what was said, which is what I initially got into it over.  If you haven't read them, or chose to disregard them in favor of trying to win a debate I'm not a part of, there's really not much I can say to you, especially given that Woo himself weighed in several times on the content issue. 

You are, as you pointed out, more than welcome to keep telling anyone who will listen what you think about anything in particular no matter how little it has to do with what was said in the post you're responding to. 

[Khavos]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

So wheres the arguement if you agree they weren't handled as well as ME1's? Or were you including ME1 in that statement?

I was including them both in that statement.  My argument as far as the thread goes, though, is that Woo shouldn't be getting nerdraged on for telling the truth. 

[Vlainstrike]

The Demonologist wrote...

Yes, well. That was awhile ago. Are you still feeling any particular emotions on the subject? Enough to justify continued anger and contempt?

I don't really think even the most sensitive amongst us should.

Also, not referring to you, 'cause you're posting rationably. I'm just talking about those who just can't seem to get over the issue.

As to the first part of your post... I... don't understand? Two weeks of non information on how a 360 title update can affect a PC release? What's that got to do with this? Clarification, por favor.

I guess I'm just hoping that if we throw up enough smoke then maybe Bioware won't hold back any punches on ME3. 

I'm not saying they have to put nudity in the game; I'm saying they shouldn't avoid it when the situations call for it.  If you have strippers in your M rated game, let em strip.  If your game focuses partly around a dating sim culminating in a sexual encounter, don't be afraid to push the envelope by giving the audience a tasteful, but believable scene like you would find in a R rated drama.

Bioware set a precedent with ME1.  They raised the bar for what can be expected in terms of complex character development within the video game medium - a medium that has been struggling to escape our culture's 'games are just for kids' mentality.

If ME1 hadn't had such a perfectly executed love scene involving nudity, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.  But they did have it, and then they seemingly chose to backpedal on their decision in the sequel when I kind of hoped/expected them to push it farther than the first game, given that this has been touted as the 'dark 2nd act' of the trilogy - a moniker that I believe ME2 lives up to on every other subject matter except sex.

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 09 février 2010 - 05:37 .

[Khavos]

Vlainstrike wrote...


I'm not saying they have to put nudity in the game; I'm saying they shouldn't avoid it when the situations call for it.  If you have strippers in your M rated game, let em strip.  If your game focuses partly around a dating sim culminating in a sexual encounter, don't be afraid to push the envelope by giving the audience a tasteful, but believable scene like you would find in a R rated drama.

No, you are saying they have to put nudity in the game.  By implying that the "situation calls for it" - which is ridiculously subjective in and of itself - the part of your post I quoted above means, simply, they have to do it.

It's worth noting that Bioware has repeatedly stated they do not push envelopes for the sake of pushing envelopes.  They can depict romances however they want, and they certainly don't have to include nudity to do it.  I can think of countless R-rated dramas that have done the romance/sexual relationship bit without nudity.  I don't believe I've ever heard anyone demanding that it's in there.  

If ME1 hadn't had such a perfectly executed love scene involving nudity, then we wouldn't be having this discussion.  But they did have it, and then they seemingly chose to backpedal on their decision in the sequel when I kind of hoped/expected them to push it farther than the first game, given that this has been touted as the 'dark 2nd act' of the trilogy. 

Again, they do not push envelopes for the sake of pushing envelopes.  They've said they consider that a remarkably stupid approach.  You found the ME1 sex scenes "perfectly executed," others found them hilarious. 

[Fexelea]

Khavos wrote...

Fexelea wrote...

You don't need to believe me regarding my emotions. It is irrelevant. Your assumption that I have a "thread closed" criteria is also irrelevant, and I don't see myself as being here argueing over what he said. I was simply commenting that I think your take on the thread was mistaken, and I have been more than accomodating to explain to your in detail and with civility why.

Then I'm going to have to stop giving you any sort of credibility whatsoever.  I can point to several pages' worth of back and forth over the validity of what was said, which is what I initially got into it over.  If you haven't read them, or chose to disregard them in favor of trying to win a debate I'm not a part of, there's really not much I can say to you, especially given that Woo himself weighed in several times on the content issue. 

You are, as you pointed out, more than welcome to keep telling anyone who will listen what you think about anything in particular no matter how little it has to do with what was said in the post you're responding to. 

Your attempts to disregard facts and all my previous postings by miscontruing my argument will not increase the credibility of yours. Your assumption that I am trying to win a debate is innacurate.

I am unnafected by what credibitliy you do or do not give me.

Your further intimations regarding the relevance of my replies to posts  are inconsequential.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Khavos wrote...

I was including them both in that statement.  My argument as far as the thread goes, though, is that Woo shouldn't be getting nerdraged on for telling the truth. 

What truth is that? Those that are annoyed at how it was handled in ME2 are all imature
(hardly truth btw)? Or that Bioware has final say on dev choices which I don't think anyone was even disputing in the first place. You seem to be picking and choosing comments for the sake of having something to argue with people about.  

[Fexelea]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Khavos wrote...

I was including them both in that statement.  My argument as far as the thread goes, though, is that Woo shouldn't be getting nerdraged on for telling the truth. 

What truth is that? Those that are annoyed at how it was handled in ME2 are all imature
(hardly truth btw)? Or that Bioware has final say on dev choices which I don't think anyone was even disputing in the first place. You seem to be picking and choosing comments for the sake of having something to argue with people about.  

QFT

Have fun guys. Work calls

Modifié par Fexelea, 09 février 2010 - 05:37 .

[Khavos]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

What truth is that? Those that are annoyed at how it was handled in ME2 are all imature
(hardly truth btw)? Or that Bioware has final say on dev choices which I don't think anyone was even disputing in the first place. You seem to be picking and choosing comments for the sake of having something to argue with people about.  

1.  Is it true that all who are demanding alien sideboob are immature?  I have no idea, but it'd be hard to refute it based on the evidence so far.  What is true is that that appears to be Woo's opinion, and he gave it. 

2.  Yeah, there have been plenty of people taking issue with the "dictatorship" analogy and trying to argue that gamers and developers make a collaborative effort to design games.  Please tell me you read them. 

[Khavos]

Fexelea wrote...

QFT

Have fun guys. Work calls

Aww, don't go now.  I've got a great line for that!

Fexelea wrote...

I am unnafected by what credibitliy you
do or do not give me.

[xODD7BALLx]

Walkerzz wrote...

No nudity - EA's fault?

EA titles I've played that do have nudity

Godfather 2(RATED M)
The Saboteur(RATED M) - didnt it get best of show at E3?

Topless and not in an intimate setting, unless brothels, cathouses, strip clubs are considered as being intimate.
And that's just it, there was NUDITY in a STRIP CLUB, it was appropriate for the location.
Lovemaking typically requires removal of or improv of eachothers clothing, therefore nudity or partial nudity(ME1), is not out of place considering the setting.

If any of this sounds retarded I'm ok with that, I just took my meds courtesy of the VA,

all I'm saying is if partial nudity WASNT IN ME1 nobody wouldve said a damn word about ME2 not having it. It seems that with a series of a certain story in and medium that once a standard is set you should stick with it to avoid this type of argument or discussion.

Also The Saboteur shipped without boobage in the Clubs, but with free DLC you have to be I guess 18 to download via XBL PSN well it added boobage. That being said devs could take note of that idea, and then for those who swear up and down that only people that see nudity as an appealing or natural thing being stupid or immature get their game filled with gore and violence minus boobs, and those who want realism, standard etc get their boobage, and all go home happy.

Modifié par Operative84, 09 février 2010 - 05:46 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Khavos wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I figured as much. Your behavior does not fit a topic in which maturity is key.

I'm starting to worry that you guys are being serious when you say things like that.

Keep doing that. Maybe it will give you insight in the way you are handling the topic yourself.,

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Khavos wrote...

Fexelea wrote...

QFT

Have fun guys. Work calls

Aww, don't go now.  I've got a great line for that!

Fexelea wrote...

I am unnafected by what credibitliy you
do or do not give me.

At this point I'm almost 100% convinced you're just trolling people for the sake of it Khavos, really uncool.

[Khavos]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

At this point I'm almost 100% convinced you're just trolling people for the sake of it Khavos, really uncool.

Not at all.  You'll note I answered your earlier question regarding the truth of Stanley's statement quite seriously.  And every question put to me in this thread thus far, for that matter.

Regardless, to paraphrase a forumite who's never learned the value of brevity, whether or not you believe my actions to be uncool does not affect me. 

[Dellingr]

AdrynBliss wrote... jeez did you guys even pay attention to the OP? This isn't about the actual nudity in and of itself. re-read the first paragraph. 'BioWare’s choice represents compromising its philosophy, perhaps even a core principle, BioWare defended in ME1.' I competely agree with this and I was greatly disappointed to see bioware compromise it's own principles. Video games will gain no ground or respect as an artistic medum as long as companies bow to the opposition.

I'd agree with this, I wonder how much of it is pressure from EA rather than bowing to outside Moral Guardians, I don't know much about EA but I do recall them mainly publishing "family friendly" games in the past

[Khavos]

Dellingr wrote...

AdrynBliss wrote... jeez did you guys even pay attention to the OP? This isn't about the actual nudity in and of itself. re-read the first paragraph. 'BioWare’s choice represents compromising its philosophy, perhaps even a core principle, BioWare defended in ME1.' I competely agree with this and I was greatly disappointed to see bioware compromise it's own principles. Video games will gain no ground or respect as an artistic medum as long as companies bow to the opposition.

I'd agree with this, I wonder how much of it is pressure from EA rather than bowing to outside Moral Guardians, I don't know much about EA but I do recall them mainly publishing "family friendly" games in the past

Dante's Inferno kind of blows that theory right out of the water.  Not to mention a slew of other games they've published recently.

[Aielex]

http://www.cad-comic...illies/20100206



The lady has a point. (So does the guy

[Vlainstrike]

Khavos wrote...

No, you are saying they have to put nudity in the game.  By implying that the "situation calls for it" - which is ridiculously subjective in and of itself - the part of your post I quoted above means, simply, they have to do it.

It's worth noting that Bioware has repeatedly stated they do not push envelopes for the sake of pushing envelopes.  They can depict romances however they want, and they certainly don't have to include nudity to do it.  I can think of countless R-rated dramas that have done the romance/sexual relationship bit without nudity.  I don't believe I've ever heard anyone demanding that it's in there.  

Again, they do not push envelopes for the sake of pushing envelopes.  They've said they consider that a remarkably stupid approach.  You found the ME1 sex scenes "perfectly executed," others found them hilarious. 

It's not subjective in the least. Strippers get naked when they strip.  People take their clothes off to have sex.  People undress to take a shower.  They lower their pants to go to the bathroom.  These are situations when people get naked - if they don't, it begs the question 'why?'. There's nothing even remotely subjective about it.  There may be instances that go against the norm, but these are the exception rather than the rule. 

If Bioware decided to have a shower scene in ME3, I would expect the participant(s) to undress, unless there's some story driven explanation as to why they don't.

Perhaps you were under the 'subjective' impression that Afterlife is supposed to be a classy bar whose clientele would be offended by boobs, but I was rather under the impression that the whole of Omega has become an uncivilized narcotics, weapons, and eezo hub run by the most ruthless thieves and outlaws in the galaxy.  Just the sort of sleazy place you would expect to have a topless or even full frontal (heaven forbid) strip club.

And it has nothing to do with pushing the envelope 'for the sake of pushing the envelope'.  It has to do with pushing the envelope for the sake of staying true to the game's overall vision.  Part of that vision in ME1 included a nude scene where it was appropriate, whereas ME2 left that element out, not because of artistic vision, but for the reasons you have yourself have already agreed are readily apparent.

Lest you forget:

Khavos wrote...

Vlainstrike wrote...

Mr. Woo did in fact say that business considerations affect every decsions, which directly infers that business considerations affected the current issue as well, in this very thread, so perhaps the thread topic has evolved into greater things than you would try to force upon it.

He did.  I've said that countless times myself.  He's said it, I've said it, everyone who was capable of understanding the guy's analogy has said it.

Everyone, Woo himself included, admits that it's possible Bioware made decisions about how much alien sideboob they'd be putting in ME2 based on business.  Everyone.  Woo's stated he won't confirm or deny either way.

You have your answer, yet here you are, tilting away at remarkably insignificant windmills. 

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 09 février 2010 - 06:20 .