793 réponses à ce sujet

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

Wow, there's no need to hate a guy because he's being straight with you. And Stanley Woo is being totally straight. It's just people take offense because they've invested a lot into the related threads.



Game development IS a dictatorship. Well... it's an oligarchy, at least. ;-)

[Khavos]

Vlainstrike wrote...

It's not subjective in the least. Strippers get naked when they strip.  People take their clothes off to have sex.  People undress to take a shower.  They lower their pants to go to the bathroom.  These are situations when people get naked - if they don't, it begs the question 'why?'. There's nothing even remotely subjective about it.  There may be instances that go against the norm, but these are the exception rather than the rule. 

If Bioware decided to have a shower scene in ME3, I would expect the participant(s) to undress, unless there's some story driven explanation as to why they don't.

Movies had countless scenes set in strip clubs with no nudity.  The same goes for scenes where two characters are about to have sex.  There are no story driven explanations for why the characters aren't naked.  There are, believe it or not, other factors, including the subjective opinion of the production crew responsible for making such decisions regarding whether or not nudity's necessary for the scene. 

Perhaps you were under the 'subjective' impression that Afterlife is supposed to be a classy bar whose clientele would be offended by boobs, but I was rather under the impression that the whole of Omega has become an uncivilized narcotics, weapons, and eezo hub run by the most ruthless thieves and outlaws in the galaxy.  Just the sort of sleazy place you would expect to have a topless or even full frontal (heaven forbid) strip club.

Yet somehow you managed to get the impression that the whole of Omega has become an uncivilized narcotics, weapons, and eezo hub run by the most ruthless thieves and outlaws in the galaxy without topless dancers in Afterlife. 

And it has nothing to do with pushing the envelope 'for the sake of pushing the envelope'.  It has to do with pushing the envelope for the sake of staying true to the game's overall vision.

Hold the phone.  You don't decide what the game's overall vision is.  The development team does.  You have no input whatsoever, and you need to understand that.

Part of that vision in ME1 included a nude scene where it was appropriate, whereas ME2 left that element out, not because of artistic vision, but for the reasons you have yourself have already agreed are readily apparent.

I never agreed that they were readily apparent.  I agreed, as Woo himself stated, that they were possible reasons for the "change."  I've also said it's possible that it was a purely artistic decision.  I personally think Miranda's voice actor didn't want her digital representation getting naked.  I also think they were worried about more conservative bull****.  I also think there's a decent possibility they could have been skirting an AO rating if they'd gone with it.  A small part of me hopes they did it solely to ****** off nerds, but I don't think that's likely.

Why does it matter why they did it?  You don't get to decide how they make their decisions. 

[Matt VT Schlo]

Bottom line: if people are offended on any level regarding a discussion or comment, whether it be a board member, a moderator, or developer, YOU ARE FREE TO LEAVE THESE BOARDS!

Modifié par Matt VT Schlo, 09 février 2010 - 06:59 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Matt VT Schlo wrote...

Bottom line: if people are offended on any level regarding a discussion or comment, whether it be a board member, a moderator, or developer, YOU ARE FREE TO LEAVE THESE BOARDS!

So... Erm... If you offend me then my options are to leave and to leave. That's cute. Try posting something that makes sense.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 09 février 2010 - 07:26 .

[Matt VT Schlo]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Matt VT Schlo wrote...

Bottom line: if people are offended on any level regarding a discussion or comment, whether it be a board member, a moderator, or developer, YOU ARE FREE TO LEAVE THESE BOARDS!

So... Erm... If you offend me then my options are to leave and to leave. That's cute. Try posting something that makes sense.

Yeah,,,,,,,read again.

[Vlainstrike]

Yep, I got the correct impression of Omega based on the codex and paying attention to other elements in the setting, which is why eternally clothed strippers completely clashes with the rest of the setting.

As for vision - the vision is revealed through the developers own words and the game itself - not hard to see what they were going for, and how they deviated from that vision in the 2nd game with respect to the LI's.

Of course I don't make their decsions, but I do have input (in fact I've had a game's content changed specifically according to my forum input before - I designed the pvp titles for Martial Artists in Anarchy Online). I have a voice like everyone else, and can use this forum as a platform to encourage the developers to go in a certain direction, just like everyone else here. Given the dev response to changing other areas of the game in response to player feedback gives me great encouragement that we are being heard despite people like you who try to have everyone believe otherwise.

Lol, I was wondering how you would try to weasal out of your own quote - no you didn't use the words "readily apparent", you just said, " I've said that countless times myself. He's said it, I've said it, everyone who was capable of understanding the guy's analogy has said it."

Well after saying it "countless times", just how many more times do you have to say a thing before it becomes "readily apparent" that you say what you mean? It's becoming 'readily apparent' to me now that you don't have a solid opinion on anything, rather you just argue to argue, and if that means backpedaling on a quote in order to get a rise out of someone you'll do it.

Typical troll fare - dealt with your type many times. Best way to deal with it is to cut off your food source. Sadly I haven't found an ignore option on these forums yet, so I'll have to do it manually.
Bye bye now.

/awaits the predictably cliche response where you try to draw me back into your nonsense

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 09 février 2010 - 07:32 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Matt VT Schlo wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Matt VT Schlo wrote...

Bottom line: if people are offended on any level regarding a discussion or comment, whether it be a board member, a moderator, or developer, YOU ARE FREE TO LEAVE THESE BOARDS!

So... Erm... If you offend me then my options are to leave and to leave. That's cute. Try posting something that makes sense.

Yeah,,,,,,,read again.

Yes. Amazing idea.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Vlainstrike wrote...

Yep, I got the correct impression of Omega based on the codex and paying attention to other elements in the setting, which is why eternally clothed strippers completely clashes with the rest of the setting.

As for vision - the vision is revealed through the developers own words and the game itself - not hard to see what they were going for, and how they deviated from that vision in the 2nd game with respect to the LI's.

Of course I don't make their decsions, but I do have input (in fact I've had a game's content changed specifically according to my forum input before - I designed the pvp titles for Martial Artists in Anarchy Online). I have a voice like everyone else, and can use this forum as a platform to encourage the developers to go in a certain direction, just like everyone else here. Given the dev response to changing other areas of the game in response to player feedback gives me great encouragement that we are being heard despite people like you who try to have everyone believe otherwise.

Lol, I was wondering how you would try to weasal out of your own quote - no you didn't use the words "readily apparent", you just said, " I've said that countless times myself. He's said it, I've said it, everyone who was capable of understanding the guy's analogy has said it."

Well after saying it "countless times", just how many more times do you have to say a thing before it becomes "readily apparent" that you say what you mean? It's becoming 'readily apparent' to me now that you don't have a solid opinion on anything, rather you just argue to argue, and if that means backpedaling on a quote in order to get a rise out of someone you'll do it.

Typical troll fare - dealt with your type many times. Best way to deal with it is to cut off your food source. Sadly I haven't found an ignore option on these forums yet, so I'll have to do it manually.
Bye bye now.

/awaits the predictably cliche response where you try to draw me back into your nonsense

QFT, obvious troll is obvious.

[Khavos]

Vlainstrike wrote...

Yep, I got the correct impression of Omega based on the codex and paying attention to other elements in the setting, which is why eternally clothed strippers completely clashes with the rest of the setting.

As for vision - the vision is revealed through the developers own words and the game itself - not hard to see what they were going for, and how they deviated from that vision in the 2nd game with respect to the LI's.

I don't recall the devs ever stating that nudity was crucial to the vision of ME2.  I also don't recall them saying they would handle ME2's LIs the same way they handled ME1's.  Could you provide those for me?

Of course I don't make their decsions, but I do have input (in fact I've had a game's content changed specifically according to my forum input before - I designed the pvp titles for Martial Artists in Anarchy Online).

You're mischaracterizing.  You suggested content, the devs chose to implement that suggestion.  You didn't have anything changed; you never had the power to have anything changed.  You're delusional if you believe otherwise.

I have a voice like everyone else, and can use this forum as a platform to encourage the developers to go in a certain direction, just like everyone else here. Given the dev response to changing other areas of the game in response to player feedback gives me great encouragement that we are being heard despite people like you who try to have everyone believe otherwise.

How many of my own quotes stating that Bioware listens to their fans would you like me to provide?  Or would you simply prefer to continue lying?

Lol, I was wondering how you would try to weasal out of your own quote - no you didn't use the words "readily apparent", you just said, " I've said that countless times myself. He's said it, I've said it, everyone who was capable of understanding the guy's analogy has said it."

Well after saying it "countless times", just how many more times do you have to say a thing before it becomes "readily apparent" that you say what you mean? It's becoming 'readily apparent' to me now that you don't have a solid opinion on anything, rather you just argue to argue, and if that means backpedaling on a quote in order to get a rise out of someone you'll do it.

Look, I'm really sorry that you don't understand everything you read.  In that quote I agreed with Woo that business considerations affect game design decisions.  There's nothing inconsistent about that.  You appear to live in some sort of bizarre fantasyland where game developers only make decisions based on where you think their story should go.

You're clearly extremely upset that this isn't the case, along with a lot of other people.  I really don't know what I can do to combat that kind of blind rage except to say that maybe it's time you stepped back and reevaluated a few things.

[Khavos]

Double posted for some reason.

Modifié par Khavos, 09 février 2010 - 07:47 .

[Fraevar]

I honestly can't figure out what the problem is here. That Stan assumed everyone who wanted nudity were just insecure teenagers of that those who wanted the nudity failed to articulate their reasoning properly. But I'd like to thank Stan for stepping up and clarifying his posts, it's very nice to see,

The sex scenes in ME1 were corny, but they were fairly acceptable and within normal TV limits. Plus it actually made sense for people to remove their clothes to have sex. The scenes in DA:O ended up being cringe-worthy because of the underwear sex and ME2 follows a similar line in most cases. The exceptions being Garrus, Tali and Jacob where the scene cuts to black before things get going. Those three were very nicely done.

If BioWare want to continue with the fully-clothed romantic scenes, I'd stand with those who feel the scene should cut to black after the initial kiss/embrace, because the sex-through-clothes just seems off, and it easily takes you out of the scene because it just doesn't fit. Cut to black would've done wonders for DA:O's scenes, as well.

And I don't say this based on any belief that "mature" equals nudity - I say it based on what I personally thinks makes the most sense for the scenes, and BioWare are free to disagree and do as they please, but the whole point of feedback is to share your thoughts in a civilized manner.

Modifié par Delerius_Jedi, 09 février 2010 - 09:01 .

[Mordaedil]

I suggest everyone stops posting because as far as I can read, everyone is just bickering with each other without any sort of merit to the topic or any meaningful discussion other than semantics.



This will get the topic locked and it's almost definitely better if it just dies off due to obscurity.



Please, just act your age(s).

[Lucy Glitter]

Mordaedil wrote...
Please, just act your age(s).

Unfortunately, I think they are.

[Fraevar]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Mordaedil wrote...
Please, just act your age(s).

Unfortunately, I think they are.

QFT.

[TSamee]

Idiot move, didn't read above posts. LOCK PLEASE, thanks.

Modifié par TSamee, 09 février 2010 - 01:00 .

[Sledgehammer44mm]

What is the big deal?

So what it wasn't like ME 1... that's what makes Mass Effect one unique.

We are even lucky we got a tastefully done second Mass Effect two game that added to the Mass Effect universe and improved on the new love interests as well as added our old flames as well to the mix.



I don't think the sex scenes were a problem in ME 2 or ME 1 just because you didn't see the full thing what's it matter?

Just be happy they even had any sort of scene at all in game.



And as far as attacking those who made the game... have you ever made a game before yourself?

I don't think so.

It's hard work and in the end it's not just one person calling the shots it takes a whole team.

So you should be thankful that they made a game that from what I can tell a lot of people can't get enough of.







Just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean you should attack those because they don't agree with you.

[Stanley Woo]

Another warning to please stop the swearing and the insults towards each other. And Khavos and Fexelea, if you could get a room and take your little spat to private, that would be much appreciated. You argument on whose arguments are valid are really getting off-topic and spammy.

[Aesdriel]

I will add my weight to those who felt that there was no need for more explicit sexual contents.



Despite some choices the developer made on the structure of the game, I really liked the mature mood of the whole game. I felt like the interactions between characters, especially the ones you could romance, where far more deep and sensual than the ones in ME1.



True we don't see that much skin but the attitude, the voice acting, the dialogs and the animations of the LI were more credible.



Roland Barthes once wrote : "L'érotisme c'est lorsque le vêtement baille"



Meaning that sensuality resides in a game of hiding and showing.

It's not the plain nudity which is attractive, it is what you guess, imagine, expect...

[Astranagant]

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

Astranagant wrote...

I'm more bothered by the fact that any aliens have breasts to begin with.

Convergent evolution, many of the galactic species evolved under similar evolutionary pressures.

No, it's scifi tropes at work.

My point from the start is that it's astronomically unlikely that the environments, physics and chance would conspire to create practically identical species on two different sides of the galaxy when that doesn't happen on Earth. I've yet to see a bipedal humanoid with overexaggerated lumps of fat on its chest evolve independently of the primate lineage on Earth. For another species to evolve an anatomy so absurdly similar to that of ****** sapiens would require practically identical environmental conditions and chance occurrences and mutations whose odds of occurring precisely in the same way at the same time are ridiculously, incomprehensibly low.

[VironZ]

Mr. Woo - what is your full consensus on nudity? Do you feel that the developing team have weighed the positives of negatives fully?



What do you think? Do you personally think that nudity should be in Mass Effect?

[Goth Skunk]

I, for one, encourage the presence of full nudity in video games. However, its absence is not going to make or break a blockbuster game like ME2

Modifié par Goth Skunk, 09 février 2010 - 08:35 .

[Stanley Woo]

VironZ wrote...
Mr. Woo - what is your full consensus on nudity?

Considering I am but one man, any "consensus" I come to is nothing but one man's opinion.

Do you feel that the developing team have weighed the positives of negatives fully?

I'm not really sure what you're asking, or what you mean by "fully"? I'm also not sure what their opinions have to do with yours. Even if your opinion and their opinions match perfectly, it doesn't get us anywhere except to see whether you have the same views. What's done will still have been done. If you disagree, then nothing changes. What's done will still have been done, except now, you'll think they were wrong.

What do you think? Do you personally think that nudity should be in Mass Effect?

I think that Mass Effect 2 is one of the best games BioWare has ever made. My personal opinions on nudity and/or sex in videogames are just that--personal--and have no bearing on this discussion, which people keep telling me isn't about seeing or not seeing nudity in MAss Effect 2. I'm finding it more and more difficult to believe those people as this thread goes on.

And Khavos, you might want to tone it down. Your posts are leaning towards the more aggressive and hostile. Thank you.