793 réponses à ce sujet

[khellus]

I am not upset about the lack of sex or nudity in me2, but i do feel that the game was much less fullfilling while playing a F.shepard because options through dialogue became more limited.

[Vlainstrike]

Astranagant wrote...

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

Astranagant wrote...

I'm more bothered by the fact that any aliens have breasts to begin with.

Convergent evolution, many of the galactic species evolved under similar evolutionary pressures.

No, it's scifi tropes at work.

My point from the start is that it's astronomically unlikely that the environments, physics and chance would conspire to create practically identical species on two different sides of the galaxy when that doesn't happen on Earth. I've yet to see a bipedal humanoid with overexaggerated lumps of fat on its chest evolve independently of the primate lineage on Earth. For another species to evolve an anatomy so absurdly similar to that of ****** sapiens would require practically identical environmental conditions and chance occurrences and mutations whose odds of occurring precisely in the same way at the same time are ridiculously, incomprehensibly low.

All mammals have mammary glands - it's pretty much the defining charteristic for that class of vertabrates.  If breast evolution was simply for sexual gratification I'd agree with you, but the development of glandular fat pockets designed to feed the young seems, to me at least, like it could potentially be a common evolutionary strategy - obviously none of us can know for sure yet given there's no basis for comparison, but there are examples on this planet of other traits evolving multiple times even beyond mammalia  (i.e. eyes, ears, nose, cardio-pulmonary system etc...).

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 09 février 2010 - 09:12 .

[JrayM16]

I didn't think he was condescending much at all. He raised a point that nudity was not required to be a mature medium. That's a perfectly valid point, even if it's a deflection of the full explanation.

[VironZ]

Reply to Mr. Woo



Im not really bothered if there is nudity or not - I'm just curious to what you think about. I appreciate that you have spent your time to reply to my post - thanks.



There are has been a lot of unnecessary fire thrown at you - I'm glad that you are mature enough not to good into Blood Rage or something



By the way, when I say fully, I mean - have they sat down and discussed how the fans feel about it? or have they just passively talked about it etc. when im asking these questions im trying to do it on behalf of the community.



Also sorry for my weird British writing :l

[LaserKaizoku]

Khavos wrote...

LaserKaizoku wrote...

I agree with the OP.

In addition, regardless of whether or not you feel that the toned down sex scenes themselves are acceptable, unacceptable, or if you are indifferent, I don't see how anyone could claim that there is not a problem with the culmination of the the romance subplots. It felt oddly unfinished to me that after sex there was not even a little dialogue discussing what just happened or how they now feel about each other. Leaving the actual sex to the imagination may be acceptable, but leaving out how it has affected the characters is not.

Now if this omission itself wasn't bad enough, after the sex scene when you go and talk to the character on the normandy your love interest has the same dialogue they had before the sex scene (at least this is the case with Jack, I assume the others are similar). Apparently, I can invite Jack up to my cabin to silently sit on my knee or cuddle, but down in engineering she is still thinking about our relationship and needs time. This glaring inconsistency ruins the immersion. In a game that relies so heavily on the narrative, which is generally exemplary throughout, it doesn't make much sense that such a major event for Shepard and the LI would not be addressed in any way.

It's almost like they included it just because they knew fans would **** about it if they didn't, isn't it?  If you really want to blow your mind, you could almost get to the point where you start thinking that maybe Bioware had Shep regarding banging various chicks/guys as an afterthought compared to saving the universe without the support of the Alliance or the Council. 

Wait, so because the romance subplot was a less significant event than the main story arc it is ok that it was left unfinished? I finished the mission where the salarian lost the record of his family geneology and after that was over he thanked me and was talking about Shep's help on the phone. If this insignificant sidequest's impact was recognized why would the much more significant romance subplot not have any real conclusion.

[Impresario]

Stanley Woo wrote...
 which people keep telling me isn't about seeing or not seeing nudity in MAss Effect 2. I'm finding it more and more difficult to believe those people as this thread goes on.

Mr. Woo, believe it. The romance subplots were weak to the point of distraction. Was I supposed to view them as camp or something more credible?  On one hand, there are loyalty sub-plots involving matricide, paternal neglect, and a journey into the heart of darkness (Jacob Taylor's quest) etc. These themes were presented in a serious fashion.

On the other hand, we have Miranda portrayed in a skin tight outfit  w/ frequent cutscenes that zoom in on her ass but the romance dialogue between Shepard and Miranda is cringe inducingly banal.  

Shepard: I can't admire your body or your mind. You give your father too much credit. yeah, he gave you a gift  but you can be proud of what  you've done with them.

Miranda: Oh, Thank you. 

Mranda: And perhaps I wouldn't mind if you admired my body.

Shepard: You wouldn't, huh?

Miranda: I think I could live with it.

Shepard. It's only fair. You had two years to look at me, And I was wearing less than you are.

That sounds straight from the Han Solo school of one-liners.  It's as if you're pimping Miranda's assets to a more adolescent market, but aren't giving adults anything grittier and realistic.  In the end (at least to me) it came off as disjointed, watered down and neutered.       

[Stanley Woo]

What have you got against Han Solo?

[Nautica773]

Impresario wrote...

Shepard: I can't admire your body or your mind. You give your father too much credit. yeah, he gave you a gift  but you can be proud of what  you've done with them.

Miranda: Oh, Thank you. 

Mranda: And perhaps I wouldn't mind if you admired my body.

Shepard: You wouldn't, huh?

Miranda: I think I could live with it.

Shepard. It's only fair. You had two years to look at me, And I was wearing less than you are.

You're forgetting to mention that this whole section of dialogue comes from the prompt "That's not true" when Miranda says all her accomplishments are because of her father's genetic engineer. 

(Also, Shepard, her body would be based on her genetics so you would have to give her father credit for that.)

[squid5580]

Side boob or no side boob it doesn't matter to me. Just as long as I never have to experience another retarded love scene like in DA:O with the underwear thing I will be happy. Use tasteful camera angles if you choose not to go with full (or partial) nudity. At the very least use the black bars to cover it up.

[Fexelea]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Another warning to please stop the swearing and the insults towards each other. And Khavos and Fexelea, if you could get a room and take your little spat to private, that would be much appreciated. You argument on whose arguments are valid are really getting off-topic and spammy.

No thanks. I have no interest in spending any time in a confined environment with someone who seems so shallow and appears to be unable to read through a logical argument without confusing him/herself and drawning in fallacious retorts.

As for the discussion with him, I am now of the opinion that he was trolling rather than looking for intelligent discussion, so it is over anyways as I have no time for it.

Modifié par Fexelea, 09 février 2010 - 11:36 .

[Skutatos]

I agree with BioWare's choice to omit nudity. There are still plenty of racy things in the game which I take no issue with and believe have added to the atmosphere. I also believe, however, that by leaving out nudity when dealing with love interests makes them seem more caring and personal rather than being simple pornography, which tends to be shallow, narcissistic and uncaring.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Mr. Woo , I thank you for taking the time out to answer everyone's question.I know you've answered the question , but I think it would help everyone understand your view more clearly.

Now I know you said in your answers your personal view about nudity in games that you wanted it to stay personal ,without stating your opinion/view.

I think what everyone wants to know is , Are you for or are you against nudity? (Yes or No)

Again I'm not trying to pressure you , I just think if everyone hears a Yes or No they will understand you better.(Again I thank you for your time spent so far on this subject.)

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 10 février 2010 - 02:14 .

[corebit]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Mr. Woo , I thank you for taking the time out to answer everyone's question.I know you've answered the question , but I think it would help everyone understand your view more clearly.

Now I know you said in your answers your personal view about nudity in games that you wanted it to stay personal ,without stating your opinion/view.

I think what everyone wants to know is , Are you for or are you against nudity? (Yes or No)

Again I'm not trying to pressure you , I just think if everyone hears a Yes or No they will understand you better.(Again I thank you for your time spent so far on this subject.)

And what would this accomplish other than create more flaming and twisting of Stanley Woo's words? Do you know that he is not a developer? Are you aware that while his personal views do not represent Bioware's, the trolls on this board will misinterpret them anyways and throw more flames in his face?

[Landline]

I still think they didn't include nudity because they didn't feel like rendering half naked turians and drell.





On a side note, Jack goes around all the time without a shirt on, granted its hard to tell with the tattoos, but you've got a party member thats half naked all the time running around with you.

[darth shango]

I think this is a great conversation about sexuality in videogames. Violence has long been the focal point of the gameplay experience, while sexuality has been a novelty. As the medium and the players mature, so do the players expectations because videogames have become a primary source of entertainment for adults. Mass Effect did a lot to progress the portrayal of sexuality in videogames and it did so in a manner considered tasteful by most American standards (generalizing). I think it was awesome that we were rewarded with an achievement for investing time into developing an intimate relationship in both the original and the sequel. There was an additional reward for romancing a character and that was the love scene that marked the climax of the relationship. These scenes were well done in the original Mass Effect without being gratuitous, but were noticeably toned down in the sequel. I don't think the desire to see digital animated nudity is immature and I don't think the expectation to have seen the same level of sexuality portrayed in Mass Effect 2 is unreasonable. That said, Bioware made a decision about the direction they wanted to go in regards to the sex scenes and that was their choice to make. While the sex scenes in Mass Effect 2 don’t necessarily advance the portrayal of sexuality in videogames, it says a lot about the developer that they would invite a conversation about that design choice.

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

As far as nudity goes in general ( Films/games/etc.) I'm pretty neutral. I could care less, but on the other hand I do think there is a fear in the game developing community in portraying sex/nudity. However, the stigma is slowly eroding and I do think it's a good thing. (GTA 4 and Heavy rain are two examples) Whether or not they do have full nudity in ME3 couldn't bother me any less. I would prefer it strictly because I do think the stigma needs to die and because digital sex/nudity makes me laugh. (In the sense that devs all fall victim to the "Weird Science effect"



What worries me more is that people are genuinely angry/sad that there was a lack of nudity to gripe about it on the internet.

[darth shango]

Sho-nuff;) What worries you about people being angry or sad about the lack of nudity and conveying that fact on a message board?

[viking135]

Hey i have played both Mass Effect 1 and 2 and found both games to be very addictive and to have a great engaging story. I think ME2 was very dark and very mature i mean if you make the wrong choices you could end up having everyone die in a very epic and emotional ending.



Now on the nudity issue i didn`T even notice the change in DaO and ME2 untill i read this thread and started thinking of it. I like the romances i tried in both games (Lilliana and Tali). I don`t think adding nudity would have made either romance better. And in Tali`s case i actually prefer that there is some mystery as to her exact appearance.

That said i would find it sad if BW chose to not have nudity in the game because of the bad press they got for including nudity in the first game. I am not American and i do not get the whole nudity/sex fear that seems to grip a large portion of the population over there. And it is sad if some peoples nudeityfobia is allowed to limit artistic expression.



I would like to thank Mr Woo for his responses i think you clearfied you opinions very well and it was nice to see since the liked article defenatly gave the impression that you did not think much of the fan base.

I think BW has a great fan community and the higeh activity of company employees is an important factor and personally it does given me the impression that i as a fan is heard.



Sorry for the bad English spelling is not my superpower

[evmiller]

Let's face facts here. Most all of us here can care less if there is nudity or not in these games, just like we can care less if there is nudity in a rated R film. The point of the matter to me is, I'm almost 40 and don't like being treated like a child and I don't want my pastime to be looked at as some childs toy. Others may call these games, but I think of them more as interactive stories. All I wan't is for the ESRB to rate games so they're more in parity to what the MPAA rates movies. In the US you can be under 17 with a gardian to see Rated R movies that shows nudity and sexual content, and you can see a rated X movie without a gardian at 17. Even the TV rating system is less restrictive. In the U.K,. TV shows that are rated 14+ can have nudity and sexual content as long as the sex is within context of the story. Are we considered less mature becasue we play games intead of being movie buffs? As I mentioned above, I can care less about nudity or sex in games as long as someone isn't telling me I'm not mature enough to handle it. Adult content in games to me is just a battle cry to get the gaming industry to treat our pastime more seriousily like other forms of intertainment. For this reason alone, we should all be fighting for it becasue most of us aren't the children they think we are.

Modifié par evmiller, 12 février 2010 - 04:08 .

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

I agree , Do I personally need nudity for sex scenes.No , I don't along with not really caring too much of why Bioware toned them down.All I was suggesting saying a yes or no would be a more solid answer , that could not be twisted.Personally I really would wish somebody more involved would say yes or no because of what reason bringing this thread to a close.

[Ziuh]

I just enjoyed the game never really noticed the difference...then again all my guy got was a picture

[Cobalt-Kilgannon]

I think the point of the OP (whose view I share) is that we are upset with Bioware because after fighting so well for the partial nudity shown in ME1, it seems to have folded, essentially nullifying everything that was fought for in the first game. I enjoyed ME2 enormously, and I don't feel that it was worse off without some side boobage, BUT, I did notice the drastic change in policy from the first game. And, to be honest, it bothered me a little due to such inconsistency.

[For Humanity]

With Heavy Rain featuring a (pointless) topless scene it seems that Woo's idea of artistic intergrity will become as outdated as it is in movies, in future.