793 réponses à ce sujet

[Vlainstrike]

Viking135, could you remove your game ending spoiler from the beginning of your post please?

I really did not want to hear that. I kinda expected some romance plot spoilers here just because of the nature of the thread, but I don't think we should be talking about how the game ends.

FFS I guess I need to stop reading these forums until I'm done with the game.

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 10 février 2010 - 06:44 .

[Kalfear]

evmiller wrote...

Let's face facts here. Most all of us here can care less if there is nudity or not in these games, just like we can care less if there is nudity in a rated R film. The point of the matter to me is, I'm almost 40 and don't like being treated like a child and I don't want my pastime to be looked at as some childs toy. Others may call these games, but I think of them more as interactive stories. All I wan't is for the ESRB to rate games so they're more in parity to what the MPAA rates movies. In the US you can be under 17 with a gardian to see Rated R movies that shows nudity and sexual content, and you can see a rated X movie without a gardian at 17. Even the TV rating system is less restrictive. In the U.K,. TV shows that are rated 14+ can have nudity and sexual content as long as the sex is within context of the story. Are we considered less mature becasue we play games intead of being movie buffs? As I mentioned above, I can care less about nudity or sex in games as long as someone isn't telling me I'm not mature enough to handle it. Adult content in games to me is just a battle cry to get our government to treat our pastime more seriousily like other forms of intertainment. For this reason alone, we should all be fighting for it becasue most of us aren't the children they think we are.

Very well said Evmiller, very well said indeed.
I personally think there is 3 schools of thought regarding PRO nudity in games.

1) (one I agree with) These people veiw tasteful nudity as a means to a end to create immersion and emotion from a scene.
As has been said many times, the scene doesnt need nudity so much as a adult feel to it. ME1 did a fantastic job with this in their love scenes.
Nudity just remains the easiest way to acheive that end goal so nudity is always brought up in these topics.

2) (gotta admit im part fan of this one as well). I LOVE good artistry. I spend $75.00/month on comics (some adult, some generic Marvel fare) and seeing a well drawn female form nude is apart of that artistry I love.
Trust me, if Mass Effect 1 or 2 or DA:O had crappy graphics, I wouldnt be asking or caring about more adult situation.
I feel the artistry in Mass Effect 1 and 2 and Dragon Age: Origins was of such a high level I want to admire these women in all their glory.
I appreciate GOOD art in all its forms from ancient Roman statues to well drawn graphic novels. I will not be asking for nudity in say Star Wars: The Old Republic (anouther Bioware game)  as its graphics (people protrayed) are not high quality so probably better off left fully dressed (plus it IS a T game)
God knows we dont need Lesuire Suit Larry graphics in 2010.

3) (im so NOT apart of this crowd and think this is mostly under 25 aged people to be honest though I have met a few pervs over the years).
Discription says it all. These the ones that want to get physical because they seeing naked bodies. There was a poster earlier in this thread that tried to pass off (in her mind, surprised it was a female to be honest) that all those asking for nudity were immature unless they asked for full on erect penises as well. Thats porn.
This group offers nothing worthwhile to the discussion IMO and I do honestly veiw them as immature.
As I say about the gay threads, leave your sex acts in your bedroom and keep it to yourselves. Its no one elses business but your own.

Thats how I veiw the groups that are asking for adult content. The first two, IMO, bring a MATURE and honestly and productive aspect to MATURE gaming. And as Evmiller said, thats the kicker, this is a mature game, not a Teen game or a G game so I expect certain topics to be handled in a more mature way! We buy a game thinking its going to handle ALL areas in a mature way, not just a select few.

Anyways, Mature doesnt mean full on nudity for most. We just mostly want to be immersed in the scene be it very emotional or love making. One of the best scenes I ever seen in video games is Morrigan leaving you when she hands you the ring because deep down she loves you and its tearing her apart. That was fantastic in every sence.

Whats not fantastic is you crawl into her tent after being invited to share her bed (her being this very attractive lady that wears precious little waist up) only to find the bra shes replaced her normal "top" with is made of more cloth and covers her up more then when shes walking around normally!

I guess I should be happy it didnt fade to black instantly as fade to black is (IMO) the cheepest and most unoriginal and devoid of emotion style of scene there is in movies or games.

Who here has ever read a book where it says

"he kissed her on the lip, his hand ran up her thigh and ..."

FADE TO BLACK

"when they awoke they shared knowing looks of a passion and desire now satisfied"

If they dont do it in books, why do it in games?

[corebit]

Kalfear wrote...
3) (im so NOT apart of this crowd and think this is mostly under 25 aged people to be honest though I have met a few pervs over the years).

So anyone that disagrees with your views must be 1) under 25  and 2) perverts. Great generalization there pal. I'm 30, I'm married. And I don't feel more nudity would add anything more to this game.

Kalfear wrote...
This group offers nothing worthwhile to the discussion IMO and I do honestly veiw them as immature.

Again, more generalizations. Why don't you just come out and say you can't accept different views from yours?

Kalfear wrote...
If they dont do it in books, why do it in games?

Because they are completely different media?

[Vlainstrike]

corebit wrote...
So anyone that disagrees with your views must be 1) under 25  and 2) perverts. Great generalization there pal. I'm 30, I'm married. And I don't feel more nudity would add anything more to this game.

I'm pretty sure he was only classifying the people on the pro-nudity side of the argument, which means you wouldn't have been included in his generalizations at all.

At least that's what I got out of this line:

Kalfear wrote...

I personally think there is 3 schools of thought regarding PRO nudity in games.

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 10 février 2010 - 07:06 .

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Exactly , which is not to say genitalia equals full blown porn.Some want this but I think most with the issue want something that's artistic like a sculpture or painting.I think that's the basic line were all talking about taste , but not full blown porn.



With that scenes that are directed as such , which I get that.I think from the ESRB point kissing a hip or neck would probably pass for a mature game.



Going by Dante's Inferno nude bodies can still pass , but if you try to show sexual scenes even with cleverly design shots I think it would become a problem unless you used blurring.Which I'm thinking would just take away from what the game developer wanted , so in the end you get a decision of it's better just to do fully clothed scenes(imagine what happens next).



(Not saying proof positive but just a theory of why most game companies don't push the M-rating.)

[D4rk50ul808]

I prefer real content versus 10 seconds of pixels that will make pre-teens drool. I think more time spent into the actual development of the relationship would have been nice. Anyone who is offended or protesting about the absence of nudity in this game lack the maturity to play it in the first place.

[Vlainstrike]

D4rk50ul808 wrote...

I prefer real content versus 10 seconds of pixels that will make pre-teens drool. I think more time spent into the actual development of the relationship would have been nice. Anyone who is offended or protesting about the absence of nudity in this game lack the maturity to play it in the first place.

grats, you get the 'missed the whole point' star for the day

...yet another who equates nudity appreciation to immaturity - I wonder what Michelangelo, Auguste Rodin, or the creator of Venus de Milo would think about that...

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 10 février 2010 - 07:17 .

[OneDrunkMonk]

Of course BioWare has every right to have no nudity in any of there games. As well a "mature" game doesn't automatically mean pixel boobs, in fact most "M" rated games tend to treat women and sex with a great amount of immaturity. However, I though BioWare did a very tasteful "nude scene" in ME1 and it looked...Natural. Now in ME2 you can have sex scenes with the characters pretty much fully clothed and it just looks weird. Like how the Hot Coffee Mod looked weird. Like if the [BLEEP] every time Jack swore.



No nudity, OK then no sex scenes.

[Cobalt-Kilgannon]

Vlainstrike wrote...

D4rk50ul808 wrote...

I prefer real content versus 10 seconds of pixels that will make pre-teens drool. I think more time spent into the actual development of the relationship would have been nice. Anyone who is offended or protesting about the absence of nudity in this game lack the maturity to play it in the first place.

grats, you get the 'missed the whole point' star for the day

...yet another who equates nudity appreciation to immaturity - I wonder what Michelangelo, Auguste Rodin, or the creator of Venus de Milo would think about that...

Seems like quite a few people deserve that star around here... I completely agree, appreciating nudity is nothing groundbreaking.  I don't understand why people freak out when it's on your video games and not when it's on a famous sculpture.

[D4rk50ul808]

Vlainstrike wrote...

D4rk50ul808 wrote...

I prefer real content versus 10 seconds of pixels that will make pre-teens drool. I think more time spent into the actual development of the relationship would have been nice. Anyone who is offended or protesting about the absence of nudity in this game lack the maturity to play it in the first place.

grats, you get the 'missed the whole point' star for the day

...yet another who equates nudity appreciation to immaturity - I wonder what Michelangelo, Auguste Rodin, or the creator of Venus de Milo would think about that...

Do you really think that anyone believes the majority of people want nudity in the game because its art?  Welcome to humanity, where we like nudity because its sexually arrousing.  Writing up a huge argument about how Bioware basically caved in to secure a larger audience is stupid, maybe they realize they don't need nudity to make a great game.

Before you even respond with another comment about artists, we aren't making sculptures or paintings we are blasting aliens in a video game.  This isn't a real body its pixels and changing the texture/color of Miranda's clothes and adding a detail or two to make her appear nude would be stupid.  I'm glad the developer is above the God of War & Dante's Inferno style of getting customers.

Also to the above post, the only people who freak out are the ones who WANT it.  The rest of us just clicked on this thread because of entertainment value.

Modifié par D4rk50ul808, 10 février 2010 - 07:25 .

[Vlainstrike]

D4rk50ul808 wrote...

Do you really think that anyone believes the majority of people want nudity in the game because its art?  Welcome to humanity, where we like nudity because its sexually arrousing.  Writing up a huge argument about how Bioware basically caved in to secure a larger audience is stupid, maybe they realize they don't need nudity to make a great game.

Before you even respond with another comment about artists, we aren't making sculptures or paintings we are blasting aliens in a video game.  This isn't a real body its pixels and changing the texture/color of Miranda's clothes and adding a detail or two to make her appear nude would be stupid.  I'm glad the developer is above the God of War & Dante's Inferno style of getting customers.

Also to the above post, the only people who freak out are the ones who WANT it.  The rest of us just clicked on this thread because of entertainment value.

Yes, please tell me and Bioware more about how Mass Effect isn't artistic like a sculpture or a painting.

I suspect Mass Effect has some people on payroll that might possibly take umbrage to that.

I wonder if they found nudity sexually arousing in the 15th century... cuz I'm pretty sure sex wasn't even invented until like 1967.

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 10 février 2010 - 07:36 .

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

I not going to say pervert pervert because someone wants nudity in a game or they have to be immature.I'm sure the ones that want the 10 seconds of pixels like the real content too(Hopefully in someway shape or form).



What this is about is having a mature rated game were you can romance , with artistically directed sexual scenes without going into full blown porn.I do think many confuse artistic nudity with immature/pervert/porn.



What most people are talking about seeing is something close what might be seen in a movie theater or regular/premium television show.Most don't want a full blown 3D porn movie for every character.

[Luced0]

I think the romances could have bin develped alot more. in ME1 it was romance and intimicey and you got to know the pearson and grow close to the character. and the "sex scene" if thats what you want to call it was more apropriate than prime time tv scene's of a simaler nature. in ME2 it's all the same dialogue wether or not theres a romance and basicly you get to say yes I like you or no were just friends and get a custscene that were the two people just say hello to each other and fade to black. at least in disney movies the two kiss. I dont think we need nudity to see the climax of a romance (sorry bad pun) but Bioware cleary chose to play it safe. wich makes you wonder why they evan left the foul language and just shoot for a teen rateing.



So much has change. some good some bad. but I wish bioware wouldnt cut corners and give up on there artistic integrity.

[Ryzaki]

Vlainstrike wrote...

D4rk50ul808 wrote...

Do you really think that anyone believes the majority of people want nudity in the game because its art?  Welcome to humanity, where we like nudity because its sexually arrousing.  Writing up a huge argument about how Bioware basically caved in to secure a larger audience is stupid, maybe they realize they don't need nudity to make a great game.

Before you even respond with another comment about artists, we aren't making sculptures or paintings we are blasting aliens in a video game.  This isn't a real body its pixels and changing the texture/color of Miranda's clothes and adding a detail or two to make her appear nude would be stupid.  I'm glad the developer is above the God of War & Dante's Inferno style of getting customers.

Also to the above post, the only people who freak out are the ones who WANT it.  The rest of us just clicked on this thread because of entertainment value.

Yes, please tell me and Bioware more about how Mass Effect isn't artistic like a sculpture or a painting.

I suspect Mass Effect has some people on payroll that might possibly take umbrage to that.

I wonder if they had found nudity sexually arousing in the 15th century... I'm pretty sure sex wasn't even invented until like 1967.

XD Nice one. Though Mass Effect 2 is more of a for profit game than a work of art to be honest. In the end BioWare is trying to appeal to the largest demographic in any way possible to make the greatest amount of money possible. So I'm sure the "art" argument could be argued against. They don't want people getting bad ideas about their games after all.

Ra forbid you show a sideboob. :innocent:

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 février 2010 - 07:35 .

[Vlainstrike]

Ryzaki wrote...

Vlainstrike wrote...

D4rk50ul808 wrote...

Do you really think that anyone believes the majority of people want nudity in the game because its art?  Welcome to humanity, where we like nudity because its sexually arrousing.  Writing up a huge argument about how Bioware basically caved in to secure a larger audience is stupid, maybe they realize they don't need nudity to make a great game.

Before you even respond with another comment about artists, we aren't making sculptures or paintings we are blasting aliens in a video game.  This isn't a real body its pixels and changing the texture/color of Miranda's clothes and adding a detail or two to make her appear nude would be stupid.  I'm glad the developer is above the God of War & Dante's Inferno style of getting customers.

Also to the above post, the only people who freak out are the ones who WANT it.  The rest of us just clicked on this thread because of entertainment value.

Yes, please tell me and Bioware more about how Mass Effect isn't artistic like a sculpture or a painting.

I suspect Mass Effect has some people on payroll that might possibly take umbrage to that.

I wonder if they had found nudity sexually arousing in the 15th century... I'm pretty sure sex wasn't even invented until like 1967.

XD Nice one. Though Mass Effect 2 is more of a for profit game than a work of art to be honest.

you don't think famous sculptors were commissioned?

[Ryzaki]

Vlainstrike wrote...

you don't think famous sculptors were commissioned?

I doubt they were comissioned to make a work viable for millions of people no I don't. And those that were probably had to make some accomodations to please the greatest amount of people as well. (Also artists are usually comissioned and paid by one party, BioWare is being comissioned by ever person who pays for their products. So its not entirely the same thing).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 février 2010 - 07:38 .

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

If you want to talk about humanity need to be sexual aroused , I'm not going to disagree with that.I think it would be a lie to say I/or anyone one else  does not have a need to be aroused.

But were not talking about arousal ,the thing were talking about is being stimulated , you can be stimulated by just about everything you do and think.When your (eating food / talking / viewing an art piece / relaxing ), you are being stimulated not aroused.

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 10 février 2010 - 07:44 .

[Massadonious1]

So we've stooped to comparing wanting to see Miranda's nipples to classic works of art and sculpture.



People are really grasping at straws.

[Vlainstrike]

Ryzaki wrote...

Vlainstrike wrote...

you don't think famous sculptors were commissioned?

I doubt they were comissioned to make a work viable for millions of people no I don't. And those that were probably had to make some accomodations to please the greatest amount of people as well. (Also artists are usually comissioned and paid by one party, BioWare is being comissioned by ever person who pays for their products. So its not entirely the same thing).

Many of the greatest historical pieces of art we know of were commissioned by governments (Rome and Egypt spring to mind).
Why?
For many reasons obviously, but among them are to instill the masses with a sense of awe & wonder, and to let them know where the power & wealth lie.  Also consider art commissioned for churches, Sistine Chapel being the most prominent - a commision that Michelangelo himself resented.  'Mass accomodation' is not perhaps the right phrase to use for such works, but these works were certainly intended to have a 'mass appeal' that would in turn bring in more money and power to whatever government/religious organization commissioned them.

The same can be said of modern marvels and monuments (i.e. Eiffel Tower).  Sure these are works of national pride, and engineering prowess, but they are also there to bring in tourists... and their wallets.  

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 10 février 2010 - 08:10 .

[Vlainstrike]

Massadonious1 wrote...

So we've stooped to comparing wanting to see Miranda's nipples to classic works of art and sculpture.

People are really grasping at straws.

Are you suggesting that the act of making love can't be rendered in an tasteful and artistic manner if the clothes come off?

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Vlainstrike wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

So we've stooped to comparing wanting to see Miranda's nipples to classic works of art and sculpture.

People are really grasping at straws.

Are you suggesting that the act of making love can't be rendered in an tasteful and artistic manner if the clothes come off?

It was in the first game.

[drkl0rd2000]

Kalfear wrote...

As has been said many times, the scene doesnt need nudity so much as a adult feel to it. ME1 did a fantastic job with this in their love scenes.

Anyways, Mature doesnt mean full on nudity for most. We just mostly want to be immersed in the scene be it very emotional or love making. One of the best scenes I ever seen in video games is Morrigan leaving you when she hands you the ring because deep down she loves you and its tearing her apart. That was fantastic in every sence.

This, this is the whole point all sumed up!

I could go on but this says it all. Treat us like adults which is what the game is rated...if your gonna do romance do not make it HALFBAKED. Common I know you can do better you already proved it in ME1

Modifié par drkl0rd2000, 10 février 2010 - 08:04 .

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

I agree , I think most feel exactly as said above the scenes were half-baked and don't match up to the rest of the game.Most just want what was in the first game back or mid-ground.

The real problem I think will be will the opinions of what was voiced on the forum make a difference.I think when ME3 arrives it will be interesting to see what happens.At this point it seems like there would need to be ,  putting this content like this back in ME3 would make more people buy.

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 10 février 2010 - 08:18 .

[Vlainstrike]

drkl0rd2000 wrote...

Kalfear wrote...

As has been said many times, the scene doesnt need nudity so much as a adult feel to it. ME1 did a fantastic job with this in their love scenes.

Anyways, Mature doesnt mean full on nudity for most. We just mostly want to be immersed in the scene be it very emotional or love making. One of the best scenes I ever seen in video games is Morrigan leaving you when she hands you the ring because deep down she loves you and its tearing her apart. That was fantastic in every sence.

This, this is the whole point all sumed up!

I could go on but this says it all. Treat us like adults which is what the game is rated...if your gonna do romance do not make it HALFBAKED. Common I know you can do better you already proved it in ME1

Agreed - one of the biggest things that bugged me about the Jack's scene for example was simply the lack of follow up. The scene happens, and then all of a sudden you're just standing there stranded in front of the staircase like nothing happened.  It lacked the same sense of completion you get even with some of the briefest sidequests, as LaserKaizoku mentioned earlier regarding the follow-up call you can overhear after returning the Salarians lost item.

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 10 février 2010 - 08:22 .

[Ryzaki]

Vlainstrike wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Vlainstrike wrote...

you don't think famous sculptors were commissioned?

I doubt they were comissioned to make a work viable for millions of people no I don't. And those that were probably had to make some accomodations to please the greatest amount of people as well. (Also artists are usually comissioned and paid by one party, BioWare is being comissioned by ever person who pays for their products. So its not entirely the same thing).

Many of the greatest historical pieces of art we know of were commissioned by governments (Rome and Egypt spring to mind).
Why?
For many reasons obviously, but among them are to instill the masses with a sense of awe & wonder, and to let them know where the power & wealth lie.  Also consider art commissioned for churches, Sistine Chapel being the most prominent - a commision that Michelangelo himself resented.  'Mass accomodation' is not perhaps the right phrase to use for such works, but these works were certainly intended to have a 'mass appeal' that would in turn bring in more money and power to whatever government/religious organization commissioned them.

The same can be said of modern marvels and monuments (i.e. Eiffel Tower).  Sure these are works of national pride, and engineering prowess, but they are also there to bring in tourists... and their wallets.  

And did any of those depict sexual acts in any form? I'm guess a big fat "no" and if they did they were in societies were such depiction were the norm which is NOT the case here.  And also once again: The mass accomidation pays a large factor they can't afford to place something in that might turn off a number of players. They aren't being paid by the goverment, or a church but by individual people.

Also people need to get off of comparing video games to historical art. They aren't the same thing. I support creative direction and all but Michelangelo is far above and beyond anything BioWare will do. <_<


Edit: I'm not against nudity in video games but lets be realistic people BioWare did the prudent thing to do for their profit margin. Sign of a good business if nothing else.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 10 février 2010 - 08:20 .