Since when does romance = sex? I still think the time would have been better spent developing the actual relationships rather than having them always occur at the exact same point in the game. If I bring someone with me constantly I should have opportunities to open dialogue. The game makes romances out to be one night stands not relationships.
As for the entire argument about nudity, I vote for Mass Effect selling more copies to more players instead of pleasing a select few. Nudity will make parents not let their kids play, and in the end I want Bioware to sell mass copies so they continue to get a big bugdet to make future Mass Effect games. Money will always win the debate no matter how valid your points may seem to you, get used to it.
Nudity Criticisms--BioWare Condescends. This Means You, Mr. Woo
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#702
Posté 10 février 2010 - 02:36
Rixxencaxx
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#703
Posté 10 février 2010 - 02:40
Rixxencaxx
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LZIM wrote...
MyChemicalBromance wrote...
Two letters explain the change:
EA
T..EA..SE
multiple showers and no one uses them... pity. not to mention love letters from crew members that don't lead anywhere...
if only Mass Effect was more like Heavy Rain
or at least it's genre twin Defying Gravity (plantery exploration wrapped around ship life)
yes i was wondering how people in mass effect pee with that huge armor.....no chance to strip to underwear in the future ahahahhaa
#704
Posté 10 février 2010 - 04:09
OneDrunkMonk
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I really don't care whether there is nudity in video games or not. BioWare could have avoided the whole issue in ME2 by doing the classic fade-to-black. Having a "sex scene" where characters dry hump each other in their clothes is kinda ridiculous. More important is having a noticeable dynamic change between the two characters in question as oppose to "Tell me more about you" which leads nowhere new.
#705
Posté 10 février 2010 - 06:16
LZIM
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so how was your day hun?
fine, yours? (spacebar spacebar spacebar)
great but I'm kinda tense from battling space pirates and slavers...
let me get that armor for you, (spacebar spacebar spacebar)
that freaking Udina thinks he owns the entire universe...
uh huh, TIM called about getting the ship serviced (spacebar spacebar spacebar)
when I get around to it.
you look like you could use a massage, tell me all about it
find any interesting loot while you were out?(spacebar spacebar spacebar)
not a damned thing!
minutes later,
that massage was great, I feel so relaxed after getting all that crap off my chest
eyebrow
maybe we should take this upstairs..?
sounds good to me (spacebar spacebar spacebar)
[lose some articles of clothing, start mood music] (which isn't in the game either)
[They disapper into a misty water closet and reimmerge in towels, dangerously close to one another]
scene truncates inexcusably and leaves everyone concerned frustrated.
^ the missing Kelly and Jane romance played out according to Mass Effect 2
fine, yours? (spacebar spacebar spacebar)
great but I'm kinda tense from battling space pirates and slavers...
let me get that armor for you, (spacebar spacebar spacebar)
that freaking Udina thinks he owns the entire universe...
uh huh, TIM called about getting the ship serviced (spacebar spacebar spacebar)
when I get around to it.
you look like you could use a massage, tell me all about it
find any interesting loot while you were out?(spacebar spacebar spacebar)
not a damned thing!
minutes later,
that massage was great, I feel so relaxed after getting all that crap off my chest
eyebrow
maybe we should take this upstairs..?
sounds good to me (spacebar spacebar spacebar)
[lose some articles of clothing, start mood music] (which isn't in the game either)
[They disapper into a misty water closet and reimmerge in towels, dangerously close to one another]
scene truncates inexcusably and leaves everyone concerned frustrated.
^ the missing Kelly and Jane romance played out according to Mass Effect 2
Modifié par LZIM, 10 février 2010 - 06:20 .
#706
Posté 10 février 2010 - 07:01
Toastysoul
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D4rk50ul808 wrote...
I prefer real content versus 10 seconds of pixels that will make pre-teens drool. I think more time spent into the actual development of the relationship would have been nice. Anyone who is offended or protesting about the absence of nudity in this game lack the maturity to play it in the first place.
That's a false argument. You are directly implying that nudity would have to come at the expense of the depth of dialog, or meaning. It does not. In this case there is no nudity, and still there is little meaning. Nudity does not equal meaning, but the rather both are a symptom of an oft too negleted part of RPGs, the entire romance subpot.
Your claim that "people who are offended or protesting the absence of nudity are immature" is only a reflection of your own mental state. Just like a closet gay acting like homophobe. You sir lack the maturity for this discussion because you can't see beyond your own view of nudity and sexuality.
With the internet what it is today, any amount of nudity in a romance scene they could think of would simply be boring to a preteen. It's an M rated game, and the "think of the children argument" came and went 15 pages ago.
#707
Posté 10 février 2010 - 07:16
Camronnba
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Look, I'm going to be honest. I don't care about 'standing up to the man!' or anything like that, I just enjoyed seeing some Gunnery Chief Ashley Williams Side-boob and was looking forward to some more hot pixel-action in ME2. Yeah, I was a bit disappointed but the game was still amazing.
#708
Posté 10 février 2010 - 07:32
Noktarn
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If the Bioware team interacts with the community at all, people will hunt down your every comment and critisize it.
If you keep out of the chatter with the fans, they hate you for lack of interaction.
It's a lose lose situation for you heh.
I for one appreciate your opinion and honesty, and fan interaction, even negative. Don't let this get to you... get some sleep.
As a side note, there should be nudity in the ME series. I didn't bang Tali just to see a 2 second plop on my avatar =p Me and my wife love the sexual interactions in the ME series and get a kick out of it, so far to the point where I can't even proceed in the game until she is able to "watch the scene" first.
And before you immature morons chime in with a "Dood go have sex with yer wife and stop looking at pixel boobs lolz!" all I can say is, get real, get your own family and you'll understand one day I reckon. While playing such an immersive RPG if my character wants to see some tail he should be able too =)
If you keep out of the chatter with the fans, they hate you for lack of interaction.
It's a lose lose situation for you heh.
I for one appreciate your opinion and honesty, and fan interaction, even negative. Don't let this get to you... get some sleep.
As a side note, there should be nudity in the ME series. I didn't bang Tali just to see a 2 second plop on my avatar =p Me and my wife love the sexual interactions in the ME series and get a kick out of it, so far to the point where I can't even proceed in the game until she is able to "watch the scene" first.
And before you immature morons chime in with a "Dood go have sex with yer wife and stop looking at pixel boobs lolz!" all I can say is, get real, get your own family and you'll understand one day I reckon. While playing such an immersive RPG if my character wants to see some tail he should be able too =)
#709
Posté 10 février 2010 - 07:46
cornpone42
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Ok, first I really liked this article and think it raises some good points. And I agree that the "dood go watch some porn" retorts are stupid.
I think we're at a tipping point here where gaming companies can really make a leap in maturity by including nudity. I was and wasn't offended at the scenes I unlocked from ME2 -- first off, they were brief and hardly intimate, compared to ME. Second, while I'm not arguing that nudity would've made the game any better, it would certainly be nice to have a game that considers its users mature enough to view nudity.
There's a lot riding on the sexual tension in the Mass Effect universe, and right now how those relationships are being handled is fairly juvenile. Screw the media, this isn't some GTA guy humping a hooker in the back of a car then bashing her over the head with a bat. And this is light years beyond Leisure Suit Larry.
This is an in-depth story in a media still chalked up to juveniles. Like the commenter above me, I have had friends and relationships ASK me to wait til they're in the room so they could watch the development. If games are going to continue to gear themselves toward the cinematic, then I say they should go for it and let the gamer ratings and parents handle viewership. I've seen sexier scenes in PG movies.
Our generation of gamers has grown up. It's about time our games did too.
I think we're at a tipping point here where gaming companies can really make a leap in maturity by including nudity. I was and wasn't offended at the scenes I unlocked from ME2 -- first off, they were brief and hardly intimate, compared to ME. Second, while I'm not arguing that nudity would've made the game any better, it would certainly be nice to have a game that considers its users mature enough to view nudity.
There's a lot riding on the sexual tension in the Mass Effect universe, and right now how those relationships are being handled is fairly juvenile. Screw the media, this isn't some GTA guy humping a hooker in the back of a car then bashing her over the head with a bat. And this is light years beyond Leisure Suit Larry.
This is an in-depth story in a media still chalked up to juveniles. Like the commenter above me, I have had friends and relationships ASK me to wait til they're in the room so they could watch the development. If games are going to continue to gear themselves toward the cinematic, then I say they should go for it and let the gamer ratings and parents handle viewership. I've seen sexier scenes in PG movies.
Our generation of gamers has grown up. It's about time our games did too.
Modifié par cornpone42, 10 février 2010 - 07:47 .
#710
Posté 10 février 2010 - 08:58
Stanley Woo
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Two letters refute your argument:MyChemicalBromance wrote...
Two letters explain the change:
EA
NO.
I do like your screen name, though. It's awesome!
#711
Posté 10 février 2010 - 09:28
AlexWBoyd
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The fact that this thread is almost 30 pages is pretty hilarious.
I've played ME1, DA:O, and ME2 and they're the only games that have bothered including something like this (at least it games that I've played). and each game has done it differently. ME1 had is nude but don't see anything scene as you head to the final mission, DA:O has it's underwear scene at the campfire, and ME2 has it's pretty tame scenes as you go into the suicide mission.
They were all different, but accomplished the same thing in terms of feeling. DA:O is a little different as it's just sort of the culmination of the relationship you have with the other character, but both ME1 and ME2 serve the same purpose and work just the same. You're about to head off to a mission no one expects you to come back from, and you spend what could be the last night you have with someone you've grown to care for throughout the game. In both games the scenes are very intimate in that they display that situation effectively. The fact that ME1 had the person naked and ME2 doesn't doesn't change that.
The argument that there HAS to be nudity for the scene to be intimate and mean something is immature at best. I've seen all the scenes from both games and honestly think the ME2 ones are MORE meaningful as it integrates more with the characters you're involved with. ME1 the scenes were pretty much identical for all your options, ME2 brought unique scenes for each character. The fact that you don't get to see bare ass or breasts doesn't take away from the feeling of the whole thing.
Although I admit Shepard always being fully clothed was amusingly awkward in a few of the scenes (Miranda's mainly), it was the same in ME1, after your short nude scene Shepard is all dressed and ready to go while your LI sits in bed, naked. But it's still 10x less hilarious than in DA:O when you fade back in after the scene fully armored up, HAH!
I've played ME1, DA:O, and ME2 and they're the only games that have bothered including something like this (at least it games that I've played). and each game has done it differently. ME1 had is nude but don't see anything scene as you head to the final mission, DA:O has it's underwear scene at the campfire, and ME2 has it's pretty tame scenes as you go into the suicide mission.
They were all different, but accomplished the same thing in terms of feeling. DA:O is a little different as it's just sort of the culmination of the relationship you have with the other character, but both ME1 and ME2 serve the same purpose and work just the same. You're about to head off to a mission no one expects you to come back from, and you spend what could be the last night you have with someone you've grown to care for throughout the game. In both games the scenes are very intimate in that they display that situation effectively. The fact that ME1 had the person naked and ME2 doesn't doesn't change that.
The argument that there HAS to be nudity for the scene to be intimate and mean something is immature at best. I've seen all the scenes from both games and honestly think the ME2 ones are MORE meaningful as it integrates more with the characters you're involved with. ME1 the scenes were pretty much identical for all your options, ME2 brought unique scenes for each character. The fact that you don't get to see bare ass or breasts doesn't take away from the feeling of the whole thing.
Although I admit Shepard always being fully clothed was amusingly awkward in a few of the scenes (Miranda's mainly), it was the same in ME1, after your short nude scene Shepard is all dressed and ready to go while your LI sits in bed, naked. But it's still 10x less hilarious than in DA:O when you fade back in after the scene fully armored up, HAH!
#712
Posté 10 février 2010 - 10:18
LOST SPARTANJLC
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30 pages , with even more replies to coming.I hope the Mass Effect team is reading some of this thread because if ME3 is the same or the content is cut out there might be a riot.(again not from me)
But I'm trying figure what would be the middle ground.
But I'm trying figure what would be the middle ground.
#713
Posté 11 février 2010 - 07:08
MyChemicalBromance
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Sir! My username has as much relevance to this discussion as this!Stanley Woo wrote...
Two letters refute your argument:MyChemicalBromance wrote...
Two letters explain the change:
EA
NO.
I do like your screen name, though. It's awesome!
Back on topic, I must point out that you used two letters and a punctuation mark in your attempt to refute my argument. Obviously you are wildly grabbing for any solid object you can find as you flounder in a sea of pure logic. Which not only describes the sex scene I invision for Legion in ME3, but also inspires me to concede this battle of intellect out of gamesmenship.
Modifié par MyChemicalBromance, 11 février 2010 - 07:28 .
#714
Posté 11 février 2010 - 10:39
LOST SPARTANJLC
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staying out of that , This is by far the best topic on the forum.To me an easy way to solve this for the next game , just send out an e-mail survey.Those who want the old scenes back and those that like the new scenes.
#715
Posté 11 février 2010 - 11:31
BitBasher
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Everyone, sing with me...
"This is the thread that never never ends, never never ends, never never ends",
"This is the thread that never never ends, and that's why we keep singing..."
<repeat x infinity>
Ok, hopefully everyone has now forgotten about exposed sweater puppies in video games.
"This is the thread that never never ends, never never ends, never never ends",
"This is the thread that never never ends, and that's why we keep singing..."
<repeat x infinity>
Ok, hopefully everyone has now forgotten about exposed sweater puppies in video games.
#716
Posté 11 février 2010 - 12:11
Ieldra
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Let me put my voice in here. I'm sure it has been said by others, but it bears repeating:
The argument for "more nudity in love scenes" is an argument about consistency and immersion. I can live with seeing very little of what actually happens. But what I see I must be able to believe. The ME1 scenes were like that. You didn't really see all that much, but that was very much OK because the scenes were believable, even the one with Liara's "astral shape" or whatever ME's equivalent of that is supposed to be. The ME2 scene with Miranda is just jarring. Part of it may be so because the clothing doesn't move right - a love scene starting with soft clothing is OK, but here the animation is hard so it looks like Shepard's wearing armor. Miranda, too - her outfit comes across like plastic scale armor. As a filmed scene with soft clothing it would probably be less jarring, but as an animation it doesn't work. You don't start a love scene with armor, artistic license or not, if you want people to believe it (and "Excalibur" notwithstanding - man, did I inwardly rant about that. I don't know what got into Boorman).
So, if there can be no convincing animation, I think its a very convincing method to just remove more of the clothing. Use the camera angles so that certain parts keep hidden like in ME1. Show only the body's outline like in Liara's ME1 scene, blur the lines, etc.. etc.. I don't care about the details, but please, make future love scenes convincing.
And BTW, I also don't believe the "artistic choice" line. Not until you explain which artistic considerations went into the decision.
Edited to add:
I can't believe anyone objecting to ME1's tame scenes. Sometimes it seems the distance from Earth to Alpha Centauri is less than between central Europe and the US.
The argument for "more nudity in love scenes" is an argument about consistency and immersion. I can live with seeing very little of what actually happens. But what I see I must be able to believe. The ME1 scenes were like that. You didn't really see all that much, but that was very much OK because the scenes were believable, even the one with Liara's "astral shape" or whatever ME's equivalent of that is supposed to be. The ME2 scene with Miranda is just jarring. Part of it may be so because the clothing doesn't move right - a love scene starting with soft clothing is OK, but here the animation is hard so it looks like Shepard's wearing armor. Miranda, too - her outfit comes across like plastic scale armor. As a filmed scene with soft clothing it would probably be less jarring, but as an animation it doesn't work. You don't start a love scene with armor, artistic license or not, if you want people to believe it (and "Excalibur" notwithstanding - man, did I inwardly rant about that. I don't know what got into Boorman).
So, if there can be no convincing animation, I think its a very convincing method to just remove more of the clothing. Use the camera angles so that certain parts keep hidden like in ME1. Show only the body's outline like in Liara's ME1 scene, blur the lines, etc.. etc.. I don't care about the details, but please, make future love scenes convincing.
And BTW, I also don't believe the "artistic choice" line. Not until you explain which artistic considerations went into the decision.
Edited to add:
I can't believe anyone objecting to ME1's tame scenes. Sometimes it seems the distance from Earth to Alpha Centauri is less than between central Europe and the US.
Modifié par Ieldra2, 11 février 2010 - 12:16 .
#717
Posté 11 février 2010 - 01:30
Merci357
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Ieldra2 wrote...
The argument for "more nudity in love scenes" is an argument about consistency and immersion. I can live with seeing very little of what actually happens. But what I see I must be able to believe. The ME1 scenes were like that. You didn't really see all that much, but that was very much OK because the scenes were believable, even the one with Liara's "astral shape" or whatever ME's equivalent of that is supposed to be. The ME2 scene with Miranda is just jarring. Part of it may be so because the clothing doesn't move right - a love scene starting with soft clothing is OK, but here the animation is hard so it looks like Shepard's wearing armor. Miranda, too - her outfit comes across like plastic scale armor. As a filmed scene with soft clothing it would probably be less jarring, but as an animation it doesn't work. You don't start a love scene with armor, artistic license or not, if you want people to believe it.
So, if there can be no convincing animation, I think its a very convincing method to just remove more of the clothing. Use the camera angles so that certain parts keep hidden like in ME1. Show only the body's outline like in Liara's ME1 scene, blur the lines, etc.. etc.. I don't care about the details, but please, make future love scenes convincing.
well said - I don't care about details. I don't mind seeing anything at all. However, I do mind immersion breaking "sex" scenes in bras and panties (DA) or plastic armor (ME2) - considering how well it was done in ME1. I wonder how any television novella, any teen rated movie can get away with showing skin while hiding anything "crucial" (thus being realistic, while not showing anything), while mature rated games (with violence, strong language, ...) can't show anything at all...
I guess they didn't want another Fox news incident. However, if this is an artistic choice, elaborate please why this is preferable to the ME1 style.And BTW, I also don't believe the "artistic choice" line. Not until you explain which artistic considerations went into the decision.
Remember nipplegate? Alpha Centauri must be closer to us, indeed!Edited to add:
I can't believe anyone objecting to ME1's tame scenes. Sometimes it seems the distance from Earth to Alpha Centauri is less than between central Europe and the US.
#718
Posté 11 février 2010 - 01:43
The Demonologist
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I'm curious. Would anybody here object if, in the next game, what they showed more obviously consisted of foreplay and less dryhumping, with a fade to black? Would that be 'lesser' as well?
#719
Posté 11 février 2010 - 01:51
corebit
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The Demonologist wrote...
I'm curious. Would anybody here object if, in the next game, what they showed more obviously consisted of foreplay and less dryhumping, with a fade to black? Would that be 'lesser' as well?
I would be totally for that. I am not interested in more nudity.
#720
Posté 11 février 2010 - 02:26
Merci357
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The Demonologist wrote...
I'm curious. Would anybody here object if, in the next game, what they showed more obviously consisted of foreplay and less dryhumping, with a fade to black? Would that be 'lesser' as well?
even though I'd still prefer the ME1 solution, fade to black is fine for me, way better then the actual solution.
#721
Posté 11 février 2010 - 02:27
Ryzaki
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The Demonologist wrote...
I'm curious. Would anybody here object if, in the next game, what they showed more obviously consisted of foreplay and less dryhumping, with a fade to black? Would that be 'lesser' as well?
Sounds good.
#722
Posté 11 février 2010 - 02:44
Ieldra
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Subscribed. In both parts.Merci357 wrote...
The Demonologist wrote...
I'm curious. Would anybody here object if, in the next game, what they showed more obviously consisted of foreplay and less dryhumping, with a fade to black? Would that be 'lesser' as well?
even though I'd still prefer the ME1 solution, fade to black is fine for me, way better then the actual solution.
#723
Posté 11 février 2010 - 03:02
biddypocket
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errr, so having read the first post and skimming lightly a few pages (I'm not gonna read all of them, blah!) I'd like to throw my two cents in...
in ME1 I was pretty shocked at the sex scene. I kept thinking "why does this have to be in a video game?" Then, after realizing that I could see MUCH worse simply flipping through basic cable, I simmered down a bit and realized that it was simply a progression in the romance story and, in reality, they didn't show a whole lot (I should note that my opinions also may have been skewed a tad because I never played out the romances in ME1 because my maleshep isn't interested in women - thus, I've only seen what's been posted online).
As for ME2, although I haven't played it yet, I've certainly seen some of the climactic romance scenes and, to be honest, I think they're even better than the scenes in ME1. I use the term "better" for a lot of reasons...they're more maturely developed, the emotion is much more intense (who's didn't Squee a little with the Thane or Garrus romance?
), and it was tastefully done (with the exception of the whole Kelly thing. Could have done without that). I think had it shown much more nudity or actual sex, it would have cheapened it for me.
Again, this is my personal opinion. With that said, I think those who wanted to see more of the intimacy in the relationship are reasonable in their request. For me, honestly, I would rather them spend time creating cute yet serious and emotional scenes where they're cuddling at night right before bed, talking about their relationship/what's going on with the mission/etc.
**Imagines scene in ME3 where maleshep is having a horrible nightmare, tossing and turning, filled with pain....only to be awoke by Kaiden gently touching his arm. They embrace and fall asleep.....:wub:**
in ME1 I was pretty shocked at the sex scene. I kept thinking "why does this have to be in a video game?" Then, after realizing that I could see MUCH worse simply flipping through basic cable, I simmered down a bit and realized that it was simply a progression in the romance story and, in reality, they didn't show a whole lot (I should note that my opinions also may have been skewed a tad because I never played out the romances in ME1 because my maleshep isn't interested in women - thus, I've only seen what's been posted online).
As for ME2, although I haven't played it yet, I've certainly seen some of the climactic romance scenes and, to be honest, I think they're even better than the scenes in ME1. I use the term "better" for a lot of reasons...they're more maturely developed, the emotion is much more intense (who's didn't Squee a little with the Thane or Garrus romance?
), and it was tastefully done (with the exception of the whole Kelly thing. Could have done without that). I think had it shown much more nudity or actual sex, it would have cheapened it for me. Again, this is my personal opinion. With that said, I think those who wanted to see more of the intimacy in the relationship are reasonable in their request. For me, honestly, I would rather them spend time creating cute yet serious and emotional scenes where they're cuddling at night right before bed, talking about their relationship/what's going on with the mission/etc.
**Imagines scene in ME3 where maleshep is having a horrible nightmare, tossing and turning, filled with pain....only to be awoke by Kaiden gently touching his arm. They embrace and fall asleep.....
:wub:**
Modifié par biddypocket, 11 février 2010 - 03:03 .
#724
Posté 11 février 2010 - 06:53
RyuAzai
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I just want to throw my two cents in here.
Mr Woo!!!
You rock
Mr Woo!!!
You rock
