793 réponses à ce sujet

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

The artistic comes from everything you see in the game starts off as concept art , realized in 3D models / environment / and objects.Other wise you'd have rectangles , sphere's and other shapes with zero texturing.Now I'm not saying it's art like a statue / painting because it's not in that group of art.

Entertainment Art: Theater , Movies , TV shows) would be the category.With that are their any back up plans if they say on the forum :We can't or don't want to go back to the ME1 scenes.The animation for ME2 seemed fine , it didn't seem like it killed the scene.

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 11 février 2010 - 11:16 .

[LZIM]

speaking of which, animation and mocap artists,

1. are those artists at Bioware even willing to do more mature mocap for extended scenes that have mini game potential?

again it is pointless to ask for more than what they've provided while on screen what we see in engine is not passable as romance (unless it is well acted and looks good, meaning good animation).

2. mo-cap is great but such scenes don't end up being interactive.

Post heavy rain perhaps there should be some effort put into making such scenes interactive at least if not more romantic.

press spacebar to skip because there's nothing there and once you've seen it.. there no reason to repeat it. this game is meant to be replayed several times but as it is most of it can be skipped by spacebar because it isn't worth 'watching' again. it would be harder to skip something you had to play through. nudity as in showers and using the head like in heavy rain could be added for effect, but isn't required. nudity as in asari strippers (and why do they have a monopoly anyway?) actually stripping might be one of those things that captures your attention in the leadup to something interactive, game play, instead of optionally sitting forward or getting up. do it once and you don't ever need to again. seems lazy.

Modifié par LZIM, 11 février 2010 - 11:38 .

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

See that's what I'm saying , does Bioware think what's discussed on here means more people buying a game.If the answers no their not going to try something different for ME3.I also mean paying for motion capture scenes for short romances scenes.

Part me says that they would rather animate those scenes.Would having nude asari strippers mean higher profits ?

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 12 février 2010 - 02:25 .

[LZIM]

Then they are fools.. and I guess I needed to see it to believe it too

http://www.n4g.com/p...ews-474767.aspx

I didn't think it was possible on modern graphics, console or PC, for two characters to have a hot scene.

But the above, from Heavy Rain, has little nudity (compared to TV shows anyway). In Mass Effect 2, you have several locations on the ship, and even in the various bars where there could be several similarly charged interactive scenes. It proves that good character animation and extreme attention to detail, AND actual ambiance where your cabin has none, do count towards the whole experience of two people sharing something special with each other (heck there could be triangles and other polygons, the way the characters in ME2 behave). It is difficult to watch any extractions from Heavy Rain and not see the characters as people. Can't say that for Mass Effect 2. 

I also can't imagine that scene being a spacebar skippable element, even if you wanted to.

Modifié par LZIM, 12 février 2010 - 02:51 .

[The Demonologist]

Shepard.



Heavy Rain is completely based around those characters and the stories. It's more of an interactive investigative novel.



Mass Effect 2 has to take into account the actual combative gameplay, and everything else.



And please don't talk about interactive strippers. The videogame industry is not at a place where that can maturely be conveyed.

[LZIM]

The Demonologist wrote...

Shepard.

Heavy Rain is completely based around those characters and the stories. It's more of an interactive investigative novel.

Mass Effect 2 has to take into account the actual combative gameplay, and everything else.

And please don't talk about interactive strippers. The videogame industry is not at a place where that can maturely be conveyed.

But do you want them to just be loyal so that they won't just book it after the suicide mission ends? or do you want them to love you, and die for you? and help you out of your armor and stuff..

ewwww.. that sounded too much like something Peter Molyneux would say... i feel dirty

--

http://www.giantbomb...ippers/92-2080/

meaning you haven't played Saints Row, Grand Theft Auto or the Saboteur, to name a few. Strippers have been done justice in games before. But Asari dancers are a silly joke. Having a private dance room or love interactions with your very loyal henchmen would add a much needed comedy element to the game (i.e. more Scientist Salarian lol moments, oddly Mordin's character even mentions such interactions with the other crew members that aren't really there).

Dare I say the game is just too dark as in sad and kinda bleak (with you killing everything in sight) outside of conversations with some of the NPCs. 

Modifié par LZIM, 12 février 2010 - 03:02 .

[Vlainstrike]

LZIM wrote...

Then they are fools.. and I guess I needed to see it to believe it too

http://www.n4g.com/p...ews-474767.aspx
[...] 

wow, I'm impressed - that scene was really well done, very dramatic & believeable

[Kusy]

LOOK! IT'S A DEAD HORSE! LET'S BEAT IT!

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 12 février 2010 - 06:04 .

[Axeface]

I aint reading through 30 pages but I want to just say something.

People can argue all they want about the nudity or no-nudity issue, but, in the end this IS NOT the issue. The issue is that we (I believe) want to feel satisfaction from a romance scene. Sex scenes need to give you the impression that shepards relationship with the other character has progressed in terms of TRUST. The removal of clothes (Shown nudity in-game) achieves this (As it does in real life). ME1 did achieve it, ME2 (In general) does not....

HOWEVER
Jacks Romance scene (Later one) achieves this WITHOUT nudity in that Jack CRIES. This is something that you can see is difficult to show (for jack its more difficult than removing her clothes), she is opening up to you, she trusts you and your relationship has moved forward.... Successful Romance scene that leaves you feeling like you should. In fact that scene is a thing of beauty (You could even have scenes like this, minus the implication of sex with non-romance teammates..... that would be outstanding to be honest. You almost did it with the tali scene on the alarai).

Overall I dont really care if the scenes have nudity, but to be honest, it really helps. By not including it your risking emotionless romance scenes that leave the player feeling empty (Miranda).

Anyway thats what I think. Make me feel something (strong) please, thats all I want. Well done with Jack.

All scenes needed to be lit better.

PS That Heavy rain clip. Starts well but goes on for a bit too long eh? It is very intimate though.

PS#2:- Oh, Very very well done with characters crying. You've ALMOST nailed it. Getting that right will really stir up the emotions.

Modifié par Axeface, 12 février 2010 - 06:27 .

[Kusy]

People... go have sex if you want nudity that badly. Watch porn, whatever. Leave the games for people with imagination.

[Vlainstrike]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

People... go have sex if you want nudity that badly. Watch porn, whatever. Leave the games for people with imagination.

People... go join the marines if you want to kill people that badly. Join a gang, whatever. Leave the games for people with imagination.

People... go book a tour if you want to explore exciting places that badly.  Jump in your car & drive, whatever.  Leave the games for people with imagination.

People... get a computer science degree if you want to hack stuff that badly.  Hack a government agency, whatever.  Leave the games for people with imagination.

People... read a book if you want a deep story with complex character development.  Watch a movie, whatever.  Leave the games for people with imagination.

Stupid argument is stupid.

Modifié par Vlainstrike, 12 février 2010 - 07:51 .

[orbit991]

Vlainstrike wrote...

Mr.Kusy wrote...

People... go have sex if you want nudity that badly. Watch porn, whatever. Leave the games for people with imagination.

People... go join the marines if you want to kill people that badly. Join a gang, whatever. Leave the games for people with imagination.

People... go book a tour if you want to explore exciting places that badly.  Jump in your car & drive, whatever.  Leave the games for people with imagination.

People... get a computer science degree if you want to hack stuff that badly.  Hack a government agency, whatever.  Leave the games for people with imagination.

People... read a book if you want a deep story with complex character development.  Watch a movie, whatever.  Leave the games for people with imagination.

Stupid argument is stupid.

Heh nice slam on Dr.Clever

[Anomaly-]

I'll come right out and admit that I have only paid a little attention to this whole issue over time, and I certainly can't be bothered to read 30 pages worth of posts. I will just give my opinion for what its worth. Also, I have only played DA:O thus far, so I cannot comment on what was or wasn't included in ME 1 or 2.

Firstly, I was disappointed by this aspect in DA:O. No, not because I wanted a quick fix of pixelized nudity or what have you. Honestly, a lot of the arguements I've read are absolutely ridiculous. Should we be concerned about all the sadists out there who play this game for a quick fix of murdering children possessed by demons? DA:O was an awesome experience for me. Not only because of how solid the game and its story were, but because of the feeling I got of playing a genuinely mature game. There is still a stigma in our society attached to grown men (or women) playing video games, so it really is nice to be able to play a game that quite clearly was not made with children in mind. And no, mature != boobs, but that is really just being asinine.

Let me try to explain this as best I can. Everything about DA:O made it feel like a living, breathing, believable world. You the player will develop strong emotional connection to the story, the characters and the events through the use of wonderful writing, design and cinematics. The game is described as "dark fantasy", and appropriately so. You face difficult decisions often, and have the ability to witness some pretty terrible acts (like children murdered), as well as commit your own. Everything about this screamed a mature game. A game I felt I could really get into, and indulge my adult mind with. Then I got to the sex scenes. Quite simply, I was underwhelmed. The music and cinematics were good (though a bit short), but the clothes the characters were wearing just looked ridiculous. It just seemed so out of place, especially considering the rest of the game. Thats when I was reminded that I was playing a game, a form of media that is still miles away from being as socially accepted as television or film. THAT was the disappointing part. Not that I wasn't able to get my porn fix, or whatever other ridiculous thing has been said.

All I can say is that I find the claim that this was nothing more than an artistic decision to be very hard to believe. As I said, it just seemed so ridiculous and out of place. Comical, even. Everything about the game up to that point had painted a very believable, sophisticated picture. It seemed to me that the developer wanted the game to be taken seriously, and that one single thing accomplished the very opposite. That was an artistic decision? I think its just silly to deny something else influenced that decision. And thats fine, I can understand it. It is disappointing, as I said, because it reminds us that games still have a lot of ground to cover in society, but it at least makes sense given the ridiculous outcries from certain media outlets.

I am not going to make any exaggerated or outlandish claims or threats. Did it ruin the game for me? No. It was disappointing, sure, but I still greatly enjoyed the game. Will I refuse to buy any future game that doesn't have nudity? No. My opinion will likely not change, but I will almost certainly still buy the game and enjoy it. I'm not the type of person to make a big deal about it. I agree that the developer has the final say in the design and direction of their product, and I am certainly not going to try to bully them around. Still, such is my honest opinion for whatever its worth. I greatly enoyed DA:O, as I have greatly enjoyed many Bioware games. I certainly hope I shared my opinion without giving any offense.

[Canned Bullets]

Why can't they just make nudity free DLC like they did for Saboteur?

[Jazharah]

Axeface wrote...

I aint reading through 30 pages but I want to just say something.

People can argue all they want about the nudity or no-nudity issue, but, in the end this IS NOT the issue. The issue is that we (I believe) want to feel satisfaction from a romance scene. Sex scenes need to give you the impression that shepards relationship with the other character has progressed in terms of TRUST. The removal of clothes (Shown nudity in-game) achieves this (As it does in real life). ME1 did achieve it, ME2 (In general) does not.
(...)
Overall I dont really care if the scenes have nudity, but to be honest, it really helps. By not including it your risking emotionless romance scenes that leave the player feeling empty (Miranda).

Well said.
And I'd like to add to that, maybe get even more to the point:
Games are about reward for invested time and energy. The romances in ME2 are things people invest time and energy in, the rewards are nihil.

Nudity, as a symbol of vulnerability and intimacy, would be a fitting reward. Not in the sense of 'porn', not in the sense of 'this is something to masturbate to', but in the same sense a PG-13 movie shows 'brief nudity' with the side of breast, the curve of the lower back, two forms moving under the sheets.

Cinematically it's easy enough to 'hide the bits'. In fact, BW had it spot on with ME1, where the reward for invested energy and hopes were worth the effort.
For me, it gave the game more replayability. ME2's romances do not make me want to go through 30 hours of gameplay again to 'see what would happen if I'd end up with this person'. It may never be a main reason, but it's one of the reasons to pick it back up when it is done well like in ME1.

Sex is part of a good action movie, though only if it is rewarding to watch. ME2 fails in this, and I hope that BioWare will rectify this disappointing approach in ME3.

[Kalfear]

Vlainstrike wrote...

LZIM wrote...

Then they are fools.. and I guess I needed to see it to believe it too

http://www.n4g.com/p...ews-474767.aspx
[...] 

wow, I'm impressed - that scene was really well done, very dramatic & believeable

That scene was well done and a perfect example (with out actually clicking to undo bras and all that ...LOL) of what most talking about!

[Axeface]

Kalfear wrote...

Vlainstrike wrote...

LZIM wrote...

Then they are fools.. and I guess I needed to see it to believe it too

http://www.n4g.com/p...ews-474767.aspx
[...] 

wow, I'm impressed - that scene was really well done, very dramatic & believeable

That scene was well done and a perfect example (with out actually clicking to undo bras and all that ...LOL) of what most talking about!

I dont want an interactive romance scene, I really dont. Unless its a simple 1 liner during or something along those lines.

[Deltateam Elcor]

http://www.escapistm...by-Dictatorship

Dont think this has been posted, so adding it.

Modifié par Deltateam Elcor, 12 février 2010 - 09:03 .

[Fraevar]

Anomaly- wrote...

[snip]
Let me try to explain this as best I can. Everything about DA:O made it feel like a living, breathing, believable world. You the player will develop strong emotional connection to the story, the characters and the events through the use of wonderful writing, design and cinematics. The game is described as "dark fantasy", and appropriately so. You face difficult decisions often, and have the ability to witness some pretty terrible acts (like children murdered), as well as commit your own. Everything about this screamed a mature game. A game I felt I could really get into, and indulge my adult mind with. Then I got to the sex scenes. Quite simply, I was underwhelmed. The music and cinematics were good (though a bit short), but the clothes the characters were wearing just looked ridiculous. It just seemed so out of place, especially considering the rest of the game. Thats when I was reminded that I was playing a game, a form of media that is still miles away from being as socially accepted as television or film. THAT was the disappointing part. Not that I wasn't able to get my porn fix, or whatever other ridiculous thing has been said.

All I can say is that I find the claim that this was nothing more than an artistic decision to be very hard to believe. As I said, it just seemed so ridiculous and out of place. Comical, even. Everything about the game up to that point had painted a very believable, sophisticated picture.[snip]

Thank you! You have no idea how long I've been waiting for someone to say that. QFT! (bolding by me)

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

But see the Heavy Rain Developers while not first timers , the game is built like a movie meaning they want to push the M-rating or they think more copies will be sold because of the content.Who knows Heavy Rain 2 might be like ME2 , once they know people will buy they tone the scenes down.

Sex in a game is entertainment art again like theater , movie , TV show / not like statue , or painting type art.

Now if ME games had combat removed and everything was made more closer to a movie you would get something close to Heavy Rain.

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 12 février 2010 - 10:06 .

[Captain Lovestar]

This thread is cancer.

[LZIM]

Axeface wrote...

Sex scenes need to give you the impression that shepards relationship with the other character has progressed in terms of TRUST. The removal of clothes (Shown nudity in-game) achieves this (As it does in real life). ME1 did achieve it, ME2 (In general) does not....

Overall I dont really care if the scenes have nudity, but to be honest, it really helps. By not including it your risking emotionless romance scenes that leave the player feeling empty (Miranda).

PS That Heavy rain clip. Starts well but goes on for a bit too long eh? It is very intimate though.

Too right, call it a trust scene instead of romance. Or leave it at 'relationship'. Some characters will **** themselves while others open up and talk, building a solid foundation for mutual 'i've got your back and won't leave you dead by the side of the road' trust.

I still say Miranda's character shouldn't be trusted because she's more screwed up, dwelling over crap, than Jack. She has unresolved issues that a spot of frotting isn't going to fix.

--

The heavy rain clip, scene's 'game play' needs to be extended as a reward for even bothering to play an interactive movie.. but that's just my opinion. you need to be forced to jiggle the controller now and then to keep yourself awake.

[Kusy]

Allow me to quote myself.

Mr.Kusy wrote...

LOOK! IT'S A DEAD HORSE! LET'S BEAT IT!

[Kalfear]

Vlainstrike wrote...

Mr.Kusy wrote...

People... go have sex if you want nudity that badly. Watch porn, whatever. Leave the games for people with imagination.

People... go join the marines if you want to kill people that badly. Join a gang, whatever. Leave the games for people with imagination.

People... go book a tour if you want to explore exciting places that badly.  Jump in your car & drive, whatever.  Leave the games for people with imagination.

People... get a computer science degree if you want to hack stuff that badly.  Hack a government agency, whatever.  Leave the games for people with imagination.

People... read a book if you want a deep story with complex character development.  Watch a movie, whatever.  Leave the games for people with imagination.

Stupid argument is stupid.

Well said, that guy was annoying