793 réponses à ce sujet

[MassFrost]

It's rather sad that people care so much about this. Stanley Woo has it right when he says that game development isn't a collaborative effort between the players and the developers. They include/exclude whatever the hell they want, and we can't do anything about it, it's as simple as that. If you want full nudity in a video game you're more than free to open your own gaming studio and develop your own games to you liking.



If it is a matter of them having wanted to include nudity but excluding it in the interest of avoiding controversy.. Well, that is a little frustrating (as it would be with any cut content for the same reason). But again, their game, not ours.

[corebit]

WilliamShatner wrote...

The love scene in Mass Effect with Liara was masterfully done. It represented the consumation of the emotional connection between the two characters as well as providing character development for each. It was plot and character driven.

If Mr. Woo thinks that equates to softcore porn he being hideously flippant and condesending about what his own company achieved with the original game.

No, Mr. Woo takes forum opinion for what it is. A very minor and very vocal section of their entire customer base.
"Hideously flippant and condescending" is quite the exaggeration. Calling you an idiot would fit that category. Saying it is not very mature to keep insisting that more nudity somehow enhances the game, is not.

[roundzero gun]

this easily could be fixed if they had sex under covers in sheps bed and then snuggle under there with nothing on easily fixed it has realism but no nudity and there no more ****

[Gorn Kregore]

roundzero gun wrote...

this easily could be fixed if they had sex under covers in sheps bed and then snuggle under there with nothing on easily fixed it has realism but no nudity and there no more ****

\\

like in the sims 2

[MassFrost]

Ryzinn wrote...

I completely agree with the OP. Instead of listening Bioware is pretty much insulting and or ignoring its user base.

Take this thread for instance
http://social.biowar.../index/923059/1

Instead of giving me a decent reply, bioware decided to close the thread. Hopefully I struck a chord but who knows.

So basically you're asking them to make a niche game that won't draw in nearly as much revenue as a game that would attract a much larger audience? Do you have any concept of how a business works?

[Evil Johnny 666]

corebit wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

The love scene in Mass Effect with Liara was masterfully done. It represented the consumation of the emotional connection between the two characters as well as providing character development for each. It was plot and character driven.

If Mr. Woo thinks that equates to softcore porn he being hideously flippant and condesending about what his own company achieved with the original game.

No, Mr. Woo takes forum opinion for what it is. A very minor and very vocal section of their entire customer base.
"Hideously flippant and condescending" is quite the exaggeration. Calling you an idiot would fit that category. Saying it is not very mature to keep insisting that more nudity somehow enhances the game, is not.

Exactly.

[SpideyKnight]

pacer90 wrote...

I'm shocked people care so much about this.

The beauty of being losers is they don't have real lives to care about.  Envy them.

[WilliamShatner]

corebit wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

The love scene in Mass Effect with Liara was masterfully done. It represented the consumation of the emotional connection between the two characters as well as providing character development for each. It was plot and character driven.

If Mr. Woo thinks that equates to softcore porn he being hideously flippant and condesending about what his own company achieved with the original game.

No, Mr. Woo takes forum opinion for what it is. A very minor and very vocal section of their entire customer base.
"Hideously flippant and condescending" is quite the exaggeration. Calling you an idiot would fit that category. Saying it is not very mature to keep insisting that more nudity somehow enhances the game, is not.

Don't talk about maturity if you are going to resort to calling people names.

I'm certainly not talking about "more nudity" in ME2.  I don't really care because the LI options are so poor I couldn't be bothered with them.  

I'm talking about the artistic merit of the original game's love scene, something Mr. Woo is degrading by his comments.

[MGIII]

MassFrost wrote...

It's rather sad that people care so much about this. Stanley Woo has it right when he says that game development isn't a collaborative effort between the players and the developers. They include/exclude whatever the hell they want, and we can't do anything about it, it's as simple as that. If you want full nudity in a video game you're more than free to open your own gaming studio and develop your own games to you liking.

If it is a matter of them having wanted to include nudity but excluding it in the interest of avoiding controversy.. Well, that is a little frustrating (as it would be with any cut content for the same reason). But again, their game, not ours.

It may not be collaborative, but feedback is certainly very important to developers. Why give us forums if you have a problem with our opinion on a certain thing?

[DeadJediJamie]

Rodney Chongo wrote...

You know, MTV at one time used to 'push the envelope" with programs, news, videos, etc. But when it became corporate, it became about making money by appealing to the largets demographic with the most expendable cash flow. Bioware seems to be doing the same in being bought by EA, they are now playing it 'safe' to make more money and by broadening their appeal. In the end, principles and philosophy rarely stand against corporate interests to make money

I'm sorry but I find this post hilarious. Did you ever play KoTOR? Jade Empire, perhaps? Hell even Neverwinter Nights and accompanying expansions. These games had absolutely no sex in them at all. It was behind the scenes in Jade Empire at best (fade to black moment), and non-existant in the other two. These games came out prior to Bioware's acquisition by EA.

If anything, since its acquisiton, sex scenes have appeared in ME 1, 2 and DA:O and have pushed the envelope farther still. If you want to bash EA at least do some research before shooting from the hip on the "ZOMG EA IS TO BLAME" bandwagon.

[Guaritor]

AdrynBliss wrote...

jeez did you guys even pay attention to the OP?
This isn't about the actual nudity in and of itself. re-read the first paragraph.

'BioWare’s choice represents compromising its philosophy, perhaps even a core principle, BioWare defended in ME1.'


I competely agree with this and I was greatly disappointed to see bioware compromise it's own principles. Video games will gain no ground or respect as an artistic medum as long as companies bow to the opposition.

Holy crap... why does this have to be about philosophy and core principals... its not a big deal, they just didn't feel like putting in side boob this time.  No one is forcing them, they didn't give in to fox, its not an issue... except to the people who for some reason are making it an issue...

[Evil Johnny 666]

DeadJediJamie wrote...

Rodney Chongo wrote...

You know, MTV at one time used to 'push the envelope" with programs, news, videos, etc. But when it became corporate, it became about making money by appealing to the largets demographic with the most expendable cash flow. Bioware seems to be doing the same in being bought by EA, they are now playing it 'safe' to make more money and by broadening their appeal. In the end, principles and philosophy rarely stand against corporate interests to make money

I'm sorry but I find this post hilarious. Did you ever play KoTOR? Jade Empire, perhaps? Hell even Neverwinter Nights and accompanying expansions. These games had absolutely no sex in them at all. It was behind the scenes in Jade Empire at best (fade to black moment), and non-existant in the other two. These games came out prior to Bioware's acquisition by EA.

If anything, since its acquisiton, sex scenes have appeared in ME 1, 2 and DA:O and have pushed the envelope farther still. If you want to bash EA at least do some research before shooting from the hip on the "ZOMG EA IS TO BLAME" bandwagon.

Indeed. People tend to have short span memory, enough, that I forgot about it myself

[Sidac]

pacer90 wrote...

I'm shocked people care so much about this.

This

[JedTed]

There's just as many people on this forum who advocate same same sex romances and how Bioware included them in JE and DA:O so how is this any different? They had a very tasteful romance scene in ME1 but they toned it down in ME2.



This isn't about porn in a video game, it's about having a satisfying climax to the romance subplot. In ME1 Shepard has a long convo with his/her love interest which leads up to the sex scene, in ME2 it's just "lets go to my cabin and do it".

[diskoh]

WilliamShatner wrote...

The love scene in Mass Effect with Liara was masterfully done. It represented the consumation of the emotional connection between the two characters as well as providing character development for each. It was plot and character driven.

If Mr. Woo thinks that equates to softcore porn he being hideously flippant and condesending about what his own company achieved with the original game.

this

[Legbiter]

Gorn Kregore wrote...

roundzero gun wrote...

this easily could be fixed if they had sex under covers in sheps bed and then snuggle under there with nothing on easily fixed it has realism but no nudity and there no more ****

\\\\

like in the sims 2

I see what you did there Gorn.

[Guaritor]

JedTed wrote...

There's just as many people on this forum who advocate same same sex romances and how Bioware included them in JE and DA:O so how is this any different? They had a very tasteful romance scene in ME1 but they toned it down in ME2.

This isn't about porn in a video game, it's about having a satisfying climax to the romance subplot. In ME1 Shepard has a long convo with his/her love interest which leads up to the sex scene, in ME2 it's just "lets go to my cabin and do it".

Eh... honestly, i thought tali's led up to it just fine, there was alot of conversation, she talked about having to find a way to do it safely etc., and i heard jack's was pretty moving too.

All in all i think the characters this game were just more in depth, though i still have a mancrush on wrex.

I don't think you need to see nudity to have a satisfying climax of the relationships.

diskoh wrote...

WilliamShatner wrote...

The love scene in Mass Effect with Liara was masterfully done. It represented the consumation of the emotional connection between the two characters as well as providing character development for each. It was plot and character driven.

If Mr. Woo thinks that equates to softcore porn he being hideously flippant and condesending about what his own company achieved with the original game.

this

... and i think the relationships and love scenes in ME2 are just as good, actually showing that you don't NEED nudity.

Modifié par Guaritor, 06 février 2010 - 09:15 .

[durasteel]

I think the most interesting point to note is that the criticism that BioWare seems to be engaging in self-censorship seem to have struck a nerve.

Some people, noting that ME1 had and inventory and upgrade system that was removed or changed for ME2, note on these forums that they miss the old inventory and upgrade system. No big deal.

Others, noting that ME1 had a more direct, expressed, or artful depiction of character intimacy that was not included in ME2, note on these forums that they miss the way it was handled in ME1. This is such a big deal that Mr. Woo comes online to insist that "We are grown ups, and we can make whatever game we want to! Poopie head!" And of course, "Evil Johnny 666" and other paragons of maturity imply strongly that such observations make you a loser.

This crap is feedback, all of it. BioWare has a strong history of paying attention to feedback, and I'm sure that regardless of Woo's protestations to the contrary they are taking this topic seriously. At the end of the day, it's just people comparing a game to it's sequel, and letting the devs know what their customers want.

Modifié par durasteel, 06 février 2010 - 09:15 .

[Lusitanum]

JedTed wrote...

There's just as many people on this forum who advocate same same sex romances and how Bioware included them in JE and DA:O so how is this any different? They had a very tasteful romance scene in ME1 but they toned it down in ME2.

This isn't about porn in a video game, it's about having a satisfying climax to the romance subplot. In ME1 Shepard has a long convo with his/her love interest which leads up to the sex scene, in ME2 it's just "lets go to my cabin and do it".

Unless you happened to be going for Liara who was already trying to jump your bones in your second conversation (boy, that woman really was eager ).

And I also have to disagree with your "ME2 it's just "lets go to my cabin and do it".", especially since you really have to keep persisting with your LI to get anywhere AND you have to wait quite a bit until you finally get the chance to "do it". I'm on my first playthrough, I feel like I'm starting to approach the end of the road and all my possible LI keep saying "I need time to think about our relationship". I just want to get the Paramour achievement, is that too much to ask?

[Magimel]

The real problem lies in the ESRB. People always blame the developer and never the rating and standards system that all video games undergo prior to release. The game already earned a mature rating for language, violence, and content. I bet anything that by adding nudity or partial nudity the ESRB would throw a fit and force ME2 to have an "Adults Only" rating, which would make in only available for purchase at adult video stores. Remember that even though video games are an art form, they are also part of the entertainment industry. The entertainment industry has rules of standards and practices that must be adhered to. So if you must blame someone, blame all the uptight prudent people that think video games our destroying the youth because god forbid they exercise good parenting.

[ManBearPig91]

Aquilas wrote...

http://www.cinemable...Boob-22724.html
 
Mr. Woo...

Shut up and leave please. You are an idiot. Whether or not you see Miranda's bra or side boob has nothing to do with the artistry of a piece.

[Nathangelion013]

The nudity issue is unimportant. I actually prefer the romances in this game. THIS is about Bioware's spokesperson or whatever he is being completely rude to the people who make him and his company money. The dictatorship comment seriously made me want to never support Bioware again.

[Evil Johnny 666]

durasteel wrote...

I think the most interesting point to note is that the criticism that BioWare seems to be engaging in self-censorship seem to have struck a nerve.

Some people, noting that ME1 had and inventory and upgrade system that was removed or changed for ME2, note on these forums that they miss the old inventory and upgrade system. No big deal.

Others, noting that ME1 had a more direct, expressed, or artful depiction of character intimacy that was not included in ME2, note on these forums that they miss the way it was handled in ME1. This is such a big deal that Mr. Woo comes online to insist that "We are grown ups, and we can make whatever game we want to! Poopie head!" And of course, "Evil Johnny 666" and other paragons of maturity imply strongly that such observations make you a loser.

This crap is feedback, all of it. BioWare has a strong history of paying attention to feedback, and I'm sure that regardless of Woo's protestations to the contrary they are taking this topic seriously. At the end of the day, it's just people comparing a game to it's sequel, and letting the devs know what their customers want.

Because we don't feel entitley to anything in a game? I think it is pretty much pretentious to say what a developer should do or not with their game. You can give ideas, feeback, but ****ting on them because the lack of partial nudity wrong. You can be discontent about it no doubt, but feeling there is some scheme behing it is not much more believable than conspiracy theories. They are developers, that have whatever creative power they want, and as a buyer of a game, the only thing you are entitled to, is the possession of the game and the ability of giving feedback - good or not - not saying what they should do.

[Drakron]

corebit wrote...
No, Mr. Woo takes forum opinion for what it is. A very minor and very vocal section of their entire customer base.

Ah, yes ... the silent majority.

Been a while I seen someone trying to pull that one ... please continue to speak up for the people you have no idea what they opinon happen to be.

(I do give you points from now using it a tech support issue and yes, I seen people pulling that one to deny the existence of technical problems).

[Merced256]

Just look how cheesy and bad the DA:O scene was, yea... Bioware caved.