44 réponses à ce sujet

[Exile Isan]

Speakeasy13 wrote...
Except she's not. Samara made it sound like one (and she sure comes across that way), but when she actually makes it onto my ship and I had the chance to talk to her, you discover an injured, jealous and twisted little girl beneath that.

\\

Sorry, I'm not sure I buy that. She hunts and kills sentient beings for the pleasure of hunting and killing them. Having talked to Samara about the village she was forced to kill because Morinth twisted them and made them worship her, bringing young asari to her as a sacrife... there is no way Morinth will ever set foot on the Normandy, in my playthroughs.

I guess I see a good deal of Shepard in Samara (or the other way around if you want) they both put have put aside their own feelings for the sake of duty. Samara feels it her duty to end Morinth life, because she feels it is her, Samara's, fault that a Ardat-Yakshi was set free on an unsuspecting galaxy.

And people like Nef deserve justice.

[LexXxich]

It's worth mentioning that Nef's story is quite in line with old propaganda videos scaring young ladies from "being recruited into homosexual lifestyle". Sleazy establishments, drugs, danger.

[brain_damage]

Both were equally boring for me. Somebody could replace them with a pyjak and I wouldn't notice. I actually prefer having a pyjak in my party to having one of them.

[Dasher10]

I wouldn't help a mother kill her own child. Besides, I'd like to see if there's any way to cure Morinth and possibly redeem her in ME3. Samara will probably kill me due to the sheer amount of people that I've killed + I gave the collector base over to Cerberus since I'll do whatever it takes to stop the reapers.

[Speakeasy13]

Exile Isan wrote...

Speakeasy13 wrote...
Except she's not. Samara made it sound like one (and she sure comes across that way), but when she actually makes it onto my ship and I had the chance to talk to her, you discover an injured, jealous and twisted little girl beneath that.

\\\\

Sorry, I'm not sure I buy that. She hunts and kills sentient beings for the pleasure of hunting and killing them. Having talked to Samara about the village she was forced to kill because Morinth twisted them and made them worship her, bringing young asari to her as a sacrife... there is no way Morinth will ever set foot on the Normandy, in my playthroughs.

I guess I see a good deal of Shepard in Samara (or the other way around if you want) they both put have put aside their own feelings for the sake of duty. Samara feels it her duty to end Morinth life, because she feels it is her, Samara's, fault that a Ardat-Yakshi was set free on an unsuspecting galaxy.

And people like Nef deserve justice.

I think viewpoints are highly suggestive. I felt the same way about Morinth too, until I actually talked to her and realized what Samara said may not be neccessarily true, and that Morinth is often misunderstood as being socialpathic and evil. My actual impression is that Morinth never had the chance to learn right from wrong from a loving mother. She was condemned and sentensed for life, simply because she is a Ardat-Yakshi. Nobody ever cared to showed her what she can really do with her powers or even tried to accept her as a sentient person, INCLUDING HER OWN MOTHER.

Is setting a monster into the universe Samara's fault? Damn right it is. She put her duty over compassion and love, and she has no one to blame but herself. I'm not talking about giving birth to an Ardat-Yakshi, but failing to direct her own daughter on the right path.

My Shep is not like what you describe, in fact my Shep is more like Morinth. They're both killers, they both seek the thrill. Surely he is a good person at heart and aims to do the right thing. But he would never neglect his feelings. Hence, "Morinth will be more useful to me."

PS: Killing Morinth won't bring back Nef. Even if you have chosen Morinth, to the rest of the world she is still dead and her victims would get the same closure. So justice is served nonetheless.

[Kolaris8472]

Speakeasy13 wrote...
I think viewpoints are highly suggestive. I felt the same way about Morinth too, until I actually talked to her and realized what Samara said may not be neccessarily true, and that Morinth is often misunderstood as being socialpathic and evil. My actual impression is that Morinth never had the chance to learn right from wrong from a loving mother. She was condemned and sentensed for life, simply because she is a Ardat-Yakshi. Nobody ever cared to showed her what she can really do with her powers or even tried to accept her as a sentient person, INCLUDING HER OWN MOTHER.

You have a disease that causes you to seek out and kill people with sex. You are offered a choice between seclusion and death for the greater good, and you choose your own life at the expense of others around you. It is a difficult choice to make, but nevertheless she chose the one that hurts people and she'll have to be punished for it. Or not punished in your case. 

Remember that its a disease that manifests with MATURITY. As in, 100 years to figure out right from wrong. 

[BHRamsay]

...Not to mention anything Morinth tells Shep is somewhat suspect since she wants to meld with you taste the power and darkness that Shep represents. Imagine Morinth running around with the Prothean Cipher in her head along with all the rest of the knowledge Shep had gained in these two adventures... Im sorry but unless Dominate is the Cain of superpowers her death will be the one constant of all my playthroughs.

[Aeryn-Sun]

Exile Isan wrote...

Speakeasy13 wrote...
Except she's not. Samara made it sound like one (and she sure comes across that way), but when she actually makes it onto my ship and I had the chance to talk to her, you discover an injured, jealous and twisted little girl beneath that.

\\\\

Sorry, I'm not sure I buy that. She hunts and kills sentient beings for the pleasure of hunting and killing them. Having talked to Samara about the village she was forced to kill because Morinth twisted them and made them worship her, bringing young asari to her as a sacrife... there is no way Morinth will ever set foot on the Normandy, in my playthroughs.

I guess I see a good deal of Shepard in Samara (or the other way around if you want) they both put have put aside their own feelings for the sake of duty. Samara feels it her duty to end Morinth life, because she feels it is her, Samara's, fault that a Ardat-Yakshi was set free on an unsuspecting galaxy.

And people like Nef deserve justice.

Morinth hunts and kills people because that's what she is. A wolf does not choose to be a wolf. Samara choose to become a justicar after she choose to have three children who were all Ardat-Yakshi. Of the three, only Morinth would not accept the injustice of her situation, and even Samara expresses a deep pride in her daughter for that. Samara had a lot of choices - Morinth had none. I don't care to sway anyone to a different opinion of either character, but the simple truth is that Morinth is doing what she IS, while Samara does what she has CHOSEN.

[Kolaris8472]

Morinth could have chosen to accept the injustice and live in seclusion. She traded her life, and the lives of her victims, for a lifetime of pleasure and freedom. I don't understand how its an injustice when Samara finally catches her.

[CalMan]

Yes I know

Modifié par CalMan, 13 mars 2010 - 03:50 .

[LamogiasGR]

so it doesnt matter at all which i choose (except sex thingie) .. because am interesting in what battle skills Morinth possess

am playing on renegade (atm) Mirranda is like an enemy lol while Jack is on full loyalty well i think of killing Samara but i readed some interesting comments about vows and such.. some info please 

Modifié par LamogiasGR, 15 novembre 2011 - 01:31 .

[Asch Lavigne]

I struggled with this decision. Morinth to me was more appealing, although I like the idea of Justicars, I'm just not big on the whole goody goody thing. Morinth fit better into my world and with my Shep but killing Samara wasn't something my Shep would do.

[Obadiah]

I do not understand this choice at all. Morinth is a liar and a psychopath. I can understand not liking Samara, but how is Morinth a viable alternative?

[Rifneno]

Obadiah wrote...

I do not understand this choice at all. Morinth is a liar and a psychopath. I can understand not liking Samara, but how is Morinth a viable alternative?

This.  I can't see any reason to choose Morinth.  It makes no sense at all.  While in-game their combat abilities are the same except for their special abilities (and in that respect, Reave > Dominate by leaps and bounds), lore-wise I don't see any reason to believe Morinth even approaches Samara's power.  Samara is absolutely loyal.  There's no question to it.  Morinth only offers to join because she's dead if she doesn't.  So what happens if Shepard gets into a situation where Morinth could save herself by betraying Shepard?  Shepard's a dead (wo)man.  Her word isn't worth jack.  She says Shepard could survive her melding because of strength of will, and whoops, she lied.  She talks about the awesomeness of danger when she herself is cautious to the point of paranoia.

[DeathScepter]

One of the traits of psychopath is superifical charm and ability to make others develop sympathy for that psychopath.

Morinth also enjoys the deaths she causes and has no problems in using people to save her own ass. Unlike Morinth, Shepard(regardless of alignment) usually kills out of self defense due to the type of job he has.

[LamogiasGR]

I kept Samara in the end since her powers are more suitable in my playing. To be honest i never really like that race in the gameL.. i would prefer Jack over any of them LOL XD ..

[FlyingSquirrel]

The only time I ever chose Morinth was with a Shepard I was deliberately playing as starting to go crazy and who got everyone (including herself) killed in the suicide mission. And even then, I did it partly just to see the content.

For one thing, I think the "Morinth will be more useful to me" line is bizarre, since it's not very clear why Morinth would be more valuable than Samara. After all, her fatal flaw is selfishness, and we're supposed to trust her on a *suicide mission*? I'd be afraid to turn my back to her for one single second, for fear she'd try to steal the Normandy and go on the run again. Even if her powers are slightly stronger than Samara's, her unreliability still makes her a pretty big risk.

The only logical reasons I could see for picking Morinth are: (1) a Renegade Shepard might be afraid that Samara will turn against him/her once the mission is over; or (2) a Paragon Shepard might decide that Samara is wrong to try to kill Morinth. The "usefulness" dialogue could, I guess, be in line with Reason #1, but it would be a rather oblique way to express it. It doesn't fit with Reason #2 at all, and I would not expect a Paragon to help Morinth kill Samara even if (s)he wanted to spare Morinth.

(In fact, I think there should have been a Paragon interrupt option to stop Samara and keep them both alive. After all, Jack, Miranda, Garrus, and Mordin can all be stopped from executing somebody on their loyalty missions.)

Also, why does Morinth's "battle cry" include something like "Fear the power of the Ardat-Yakshi"? Wouldn't the other squad member maybe wonder why "Samara" is shouting that at their enemies?

[Obadiah]

Maybe there are some plans for that specific genetic defect in Mass Effect 3 that will play out - who knows? It's just a weird choice to be given.

[Rifneno]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...

The only logical reasons I could see for picking Morinth are: (1) a Renegade Shepard might be afraid that Samara will turn against him/her once the mission is over; or (2) a Paragon Shepard might decide that Samara is wrong to try to kill Morinth. The "usefulness" dialogue could, I guess, be in line with Reason #1, but it would be a rather oblique way to express it. It doesn't fit with Reason #2 at all, and I would not expect a Paragon to help Morinth kill Samara even if (s)he wanted to spare Morinth.

Renegade Shepard is an ****, but he's not a coward.  If he was, he wouldn't be fighting the stuff he does.  He's a "get the job done by any means necessary" kind of guy.  I don't think he'd hesitate to give his own life if his sacrifice led to (in his words to the reporter) the greater objective.  Even if he was worried she'd try to kill him afterwards, would he consider it much of a threat?  He picks fights constantly, often times against overwhelming odds.  Samara is a force to be reckoned with for sure, but she's no more dangerous than the many, many people and synthetics already trying to kill him.  And even if she was... he'd probably just shoot her in the back of the head once the mission was over rather than wait for a fair fight.

The paragon response I can see more possible, since there's some pretty naive paragon responses.  Break into Clan Weyrloc's base, kill halfway through, then tell the trash talking krogan that nobody has to get hurt and just give him Maelon?  What are you smoking, Shepard?  But like you said, the dialogue doesn't reflect that motivation as a possibility.

(In fact, I think there should have been a Paragon interrupt option to stop Samara and keep them both alive. After all, Jack, Miranda, Garrus, and Mordin can all be stopped from executing somebody on their loyalty missions.)

Garrus's still cracks me up.  The entire point of the mission was to kill that one guy.  So they kill fifty other people to get to him, and then Shepard suddenly realizes the value of life or something.  Ha.

Also, why does Morinth's "battle cry" include something like "Fear the power of the Ardat-Yakshi"? Wouldn't the other squad member maybe wonder why "Samara" is shouting that at their enemies?

I think there was some other dialogue that slipped by where she converses with Grunt and it was written as if Grunt knew who she was.  She was also using her normal voice rather than imitating Samara's.  I'd guess that originally they were going to have Morinth's path where she wasn't pretending to be Samara.  Then they got lazy and decided if they have her go all doppleganger then they don't need to write a bunch of extra stuff.

[Obadiah]

My general sense of this quest is that it started out as one thing (a choice between two morally complex characters that was not so black-and-white; perhaps Morinth was initially supposed to be more like an unwilling vampire) and, as Rifnero said, they got lazy or (more likely) just ran out of time, and had to truncate it into something workable.

I suspect that there are many plots in Mass Effect 2 that got reduced in complexity and sophistication because of time constraints.

Modifié par Obadiah, 16 novembre 2011 - 08:09 .