66 réponses à ce sujet

[Kwanzaabot]

RangerSG wrote...
Dwarven Templars are only possible in-party because Bioware did not put lore restrictions on character specialization choices.That's not a "precedent."

Surface Dwarves could pretty easily join the Chantry and become Templars. Probably not a Dwarf from Orzammar, I'll admit that, because they're pretty serious about their Paragons, but I don't see why a surface Dwarf, whose family has lived on the surface for generations, in human lands, couldn't be a Templar.

Now I could see Dagna studying Templar talents and how they work. But she's not Chantry, so I doubt they'd teach her how to use them. Remember, Alistair is very clear that the Chantry does not want those secrets getting out.

Okay, I'll give you that.

Also, Qunari cannon are technology, not magic. Qunari kill mages on principle.

What I was getting at, is that the technology for firearms exists, and that the Dwarves could simply ignite lyrium dust (even if they have to refine it or something) in place of gunpowder, and create some sort of gun-mage. Maybe not necessarily guns, since that might be a bit too Industrial Revolution, but you know, some way of using magic other than conjuring fireballs or enchanting weapons. Fireworks, could work, for example.

[David Gaider]

Monica21 wrote...
The epilogue refers to her as a mage. Should this be considered more of an honorary title then, kind of like Seth MacFarlane getting an honorary degree from Harvard? ;-)

I believe she goes to the Circle, but not to become a mage.

Allison W wrote...
Here's my question, though: how do
specializations like the Templar and Reaver fit in with the lore
restricting magical talent to a very select few, and will Dagna invent
more abilities like theirs (read: limited supernatural abilities that
non-mages are capable of using) in the future?

For the same reason that any non-mage can become a Templar or a Reaver -- dwarves aren't incapable of performing any kind of magic whatsoever, they're incapable of becoming mages. They don't naturally enter the Fade and aren't able to cast spells.

Modifié par David Gaider, 08 février 2010 - 03:32 .

[Gold Dragon]

Actually, the Epilogue Card says the Dwarf Mage Dagna finally completed her studies and eventually published (blahblahblah)....

[Demx]

Of course not to become a mage, she says so herself. She is just really fascinated by magic, and wants to study it. The Mage part is more likely a title.

Modifié par Siradix, 08 février 2010 - 03:37 .

[Monica21]

David Gaider wrote...

Monica21 wrote...
The epilogue refers to her as a mage. Should this be considered more of an honorary title then, kind of like Seth MacFarlane getting an honorary degree from Harvard? ;-)

I believe she goes to the Circle, but not to become a mage.

Yes, as A Golden Dragon mentions, it's the wording of the epilogue card that causes confusion. She is specifically referred to as "The dwarven mage, Dagna..."

[Feraele]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Feraele wrote...
Dwarves are immune to lyrium

A merchant in Orzammar disagrees with that. He got lyrium into his system and it's sent him a bit loopy, so I wouldn't say Dwarves are "immune" to it, they just react differently to it. http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Garin if you wish to see.
I would like to see Dagna make a reappearance, yes, but certainly not as a mage unless Mr Gaider & team can somehow find a reasonable, decent reason for Dwarves being able to cast magic. Doubt it'll appear in Awakening if it can be done, however.

I really doubt that would happen...its a set rule in DA:O that dwarves can't cast spells etc.    Yes they can become addled by lyrium if it gets into their veins, other than that..it doesn't give any abilities to cast magic afterwards.   According to the story.   Sandal can do enchantments..he works with lyrium.  He still can't cast spells. (far as I know..although how the heck he slew that roomful of ogres etc is a mystery hehe)

Now...if Mr Gaider changes that somehow..then maybe some people will see their wish come true, Dagna as a mage.    I still doubt that will be done.

[Feraele]

WilliamShatner wrote...

Dagna was a great character and her quest was "emotionally engaging". I didn't want to split her up with her family, but I also didn't want to crush her dreams. That was a truly hard choices.

I agree she was a very positive spirit in amongst all the horror and tragedy happening..would be nice to see more of her.

[Demx]

Sandal is a living paragon that's how he slayed them. XD

[Feraele]

Siradix wrote...

Sandal is a living paragon that's how he slayed them. XD

If so he hasn't been declared one yet.

[David Gaider]

Monica21 wrote...
Yes, as A Golden Dragon mentions, it's the wording of the epilogue card that causes confusion. She is specifically referred to as "The dwarven mage, Dagna..."

I suppose that's true. "Wanna-be mage" probably didn't have quite the same ring to it. 

Feraele wrote...
Now...if Mr Gaider changes that
somehow..then maybe some people will see their wish come true, Dagna as
a mage.    I still doubt that will be done.

I imagine the difficulty comes in the difference between the spells used by a mage and some of the spell-like talents of specializations like Templar and Reaver. Those talents are certainly magical in nature, but they're not really spells. And it shouldn't be interpreted that dwarves can't do magic period -- they just can't cast spells or possess mana.

Modifié par David Gaider, 08 février 2010 - 03:59 .

[Demx]

Feraele wrote...

Siradix wrote...

Sandal is a living paragon that's how he slayed them. XD

If so he hasn't been declared one yet.

In my mind he is, my PC took him back to the Frostback Mountain and told them his story. We had a big party and everything, there were even a few pickle-juice drinking contests.

[Thoronen]

David Gaider wrote...

Monica21 wrote...
Yes, as A Golden Dragon mentions, it's the wording of the epilogue card that causes confusion. She is specifically referred to as "The dwarven mage, Dagna..."

I suppose that's true. "Wanna-be mage" probably didn't have quite the same ring to it. 

Feraele wrote...
Now...if Mr Gaider changes that
somehow..then maybe some people will see their wish come true, Dagna as
a mage.    I still doubt that will be done.

I imagine the difficulty comes in the difference between the spells used by a mage and some of the spell-like talents of specializations like Templar and Reaver. Those talents are certainly magical in nature, but they're not really spells. And it shouldn't be interpreted that dwarves can't do magic period -- they just can't cast spells or possess mana.

I'm reminded of gnomes in D&D (I know this is a different ruleset/world/realit, etc, but as an example) whose research geared more toward the mechanical rather than the magical. With the single mindedness Dagna displays at acquiring information and retaining it, I would not be surprised at all to see her on the trail of some means of non-organic manipulation of the fade energies...phylacteries come to mind.

The dwarves created golems and found a way to animate them, albeit a rather unpleasant one. Who's to say that there's not knowledge in existence somewhere in the world that would allow for something that would amount to a new class (way too late for expansion material, but there's DA2 on the horizon...)

[Feraele]

Thanks for the clarification Mr Gaider.



@ Thoronen I kind of like the idea, that maybe Dagna is some sort of forerunner to scientific ways of doing things..dwarves are clever, Dagna certainly is. Would like to see more of Sandal as well, I just love him hehehe.

[Kwanzaabot]

David Gaider wrote...
For the same reason that any non-mage can become a Templar or a Reaver -- dwarves aren't incapable of performing any kind of magic whatsoever, they're incapable of becoming mages. They don't naturally enter the Fade and aren't able to cast spells.

As somewhat of a Dwarven mage fanboy (I blame Morrowind ), this is pretty awesome stuff, and on behalf of Dwarven magic fanboys/girls/others out there, I thank you.

I wonder though... what exactly is the difference between a mage's spells and a templar's talents? I mean, if both are magical in nature, why do they work so differently?

[RederickEQ]

I think it's  funny that people talk about Lore this and Lore that.  It's just a story that was made with the game.  People evolve as time goes on.  Just look at the talking Darkspawns.  Is that part of the Lore or is it the evolution of the Darkspawn?

Can't Dwarves evolve?  Again, its just a made up story that can be changed and twisted at Bioware's will.    

 

[Allison W]

I'm curious about the differentiation between a mage's spells and a templar or reaver's talents, too. Will there be any further lore on how it is that magic can be used without spells, by people without magical talent? Will there be more magical specializations for the warrior and rogue classes?



In any case, thank you for the confirmation that yes, such things are magic, that yes, mages can use them, and no, they are not spells and are different from a mage's magic.

[Lakmoots]

Allison W wrote...

I'm curious about the differentiation between a mage's spells and a templar or reaver's talents, too. Will there be any further lore on how it is that magic can be used without spells, by people without magical talent? Will there be more magical specializations for the warrior and rogue classes?

In any case, thank you for the confirmation that yes, such things are magic, that yes, mages can use them, and no, they are not spells and are different from a mage's magic.

This distinction has also been drawn in other rpgs such as D&D...

Basically the theory goes that all people have certain potential for magic, and while the Templar or Paladin has learnt to express it through their training and techniques, mages have learnt to a higher degree, and express it as immense spells they study.

So warriors can channel small amounts of power/magic/mana and still be considered to not be magic-users per se...

I would expect a similar division here, between the magic powers of rogues, reavers, etc., and actual magi.

Plus... Templars use Lyrium like a drug to artificially manifest their powers.

Think of it like a high school degree and a University Degree... all very technical