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Reaper Theories: How they will be beaten


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#176
schristofferson

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

schristofferson wrote...

wheeloftime32 wrote...

Another thing is this.  Civilization hasn't opened all of the mass effect portals. Mass Effect 2 hints at they don't because they are affraid of finding another race like the racni(sorry for the spelling).  I am sure the reapers probably have a back up portal they can come through. We just don't know about it.  Do you think a race as advanced as the reapers would put their eggs in one basket with the citadel.  


If there was a second, undiscovered portal, why would Sovereign have gone through all the trouble of having Saren break into the heavily-guarded Citadel?  Saren could have simply gone to the second portal and opened it, with no one the wiser.  The Citadel may well be such a resource-intensive undertaking that even the Reapers could only create one.


Because attacking the Citadel = wiping out any semblance of galactic government. they have been doing that God knows how many times, no need to change the plan because of some minor setbacks, or so Sovereign thought I suppose. 
So a second portal is still a possibility.


In the normal invasion scenario, the keepers open the Citadel relay and let the entire Reaper fleet in.  Sovereign's mission was never to take on all sentient life in the galaxy single-handed.  Attacking the Citadel with only the geth in support was a huge risk.  Why take it if he could have had a Reaper fleet instead?

Also, why would the Collectors draw attention to themselves by abducting millions of humans to create a new Reaper if they could have opened the second portal and let all the Reapers in?

#177
VanguardtoDestruction

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The main advantage that the species in this "cycle" have are that the Reapers cannot destory communications/transportation/government in a few minutes like every other time. That alone gives a small boost to our chances.



A previous cycle would be akin to Washington DC being nuked and all communication cut while we are invaded by trillions of zombies



Our cycle now is we stopped the nuke, killed the zombie scouts, and are now fortifying for their inevitible arrival.



Sure it's not the best odds, but it is better then nothing lol.

#178
Valmy

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I honestly do not know. I sure hope Bioware has something cool in mind. The Reapers seem almost invincible on their own and a whole fleet of them would be nuts.

#179
KoRnAh

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LostScout wrote...

I think team Shep will board a Reaper, fight their way to the "Central Computer Core" and download a computer virus created by the Geth which will spread through the entire reaper fleet causing them to self-destruct.


That would be awesome. Will have to get a whole lot of fighting in the way though, if not it would be too easy.

But it's very likely to be an option for ME3 i guess, since Harbinger "controls" in someway his drones you know.

#180
Mondo47

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The way I would love to see it play out:

The lines are drawn - the remaining Collectors, Heretics and whoever else might turn up are assailing the planets, interstellar battle lines are filled with the burning wrecks of Asari, Solarian and Turian battleships as the iron squids advance (try and tell them they don't exist now). Because Shepard did such a good job of ticking the Reapers off, they're headed straight for all the council homeworlds and cracking their tentacles at the thought of getting medieval on the planet Earth...

That is until they find the Krogan dug in for one helluva land war. And the Geth/Quarian/Human fleets in orbit. And just in case that doesn't make them squirt their ink and squiggle back to dark-space, the Rachni turn up and really give them a working-on...

And if that's not enough, there's always Shep and the now-traditional dark-energy-doomsday-weapon ;)

#181
Ylyon84

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I hope the reapers won't be destroyed at the end of ME3. They're too epic and cool.

#182
Vagula

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VanguardtoDestruction wrote...

The main advantage that the species in this "cycle" have are that the Reapers cannot destory communications/transportation/government in a few minutes like every other time. That alone gives a small boost to our chances.


What is going to prevents this? I can't see why they couldn't attack the Citadel with a old style suprise attack. Nobody saw the Geth and Sovereign coming and it ain't too hard to hide in space. So what the hell are you going to do when a fleet of 1000 Reapers attack the citadel? Close the arms and hope they go away? 

Modifié par Vagula, 09 février 2010 - 09:54 .


#183
PnXMarcin1PL

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Narosian wrote...

im still holding to my theory that the reapers are somehow using dark energy to prevent the angel of light from protecting organics.

exactly, why are the reapers retreating suddenly from a milku way through a citadel relay back to the dark space ?
of course:
1. Angels of Light have almost arrived and they're doomed.
2. Their job is done.
3. They've got tired (irony)

#184
SilverBecker

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Ok this is going to be a long post but I'm going to try to connect some dots here that span ME1 and ME2 so that I can try to lay a hypothesis for the overarching big picture and the groundwork for ME3. Alot of this has already been covered but please bear with me. (If you want lol)

What we know-

ME1- Sovereign/Nazara indoctrinates Saren and uses the Geth to usher in a new "cycle" of extinction, one that has gone on for millions of years. The previous species who inhabited the galaxy (the Protheans) reprogramed the keepers to ignore the Reapers signal to activate the Citadel, which is a mass relay leading to dark space, where presumably the rest of the Reaper fleet is waiting.  Shepard, who is a member of a newcomer speicies to the galactic community (Humanity) are the ones most directly responsible for the death of Sovereign who is the self proclaimed "vanguard of our destruction".

It is very important to note humanity's role in Sovereign's destruction, for as we see the role they (and Shepard as the "Leader" of humanity) played in ME1 directly shapes the events of ME2. Depending on player choices, which allies survive and which do not, what the status of the council is at the end of ME1 will directly affect the ending of ME3 I believe, this will be discussed further at a later point. Now on to ME2.

ME2- Collectors are abducting remote human colonies in force. Shepard who was killed by the Collectors(presumably so he would not interfere with Reaper plans like in ME1)  returns with the help of Cerberus. The Collectors as we later learn who are the Protheans, have very different goals/priorities than that of Sovreign.

The Reapers have shifed their focus entirely on humanity, a species that has garnered their attention due to Shepard's and the human fleet's actions in ME1. This is evident from the proclamations of the Collector General/Harbinger who claims to be the "Harbinger of your salvation." He also claims that humans are "acendant" and bound for "perfection" on multiple occasions as you encounter him throughout the game; "Acsendant species have nothing to fear from me."

At the end of ME2 we learn that the Collectors are gathering humans and liquiefying then for the purpose of creating a new "human reaper" and are basically fulfilling the Reaper equivalent of reproduction according to EDI. At the end "Harbinger" (who obviously leaves the possessed Collector General body for his Reaper one) and the Collectors are defeated, but we see the Reaper fleet at the end of the game advancing towards the Milky Way.

...............................

Now with all that said I will try to put foward my thoughts on what exactly the Reapers are and what they are trying to do. Granted this theory has lots of holes but I haven't seen anyone put foward this kind of theory so I thought I would.

Basically I believe that the Reapers are not just performing a cycle of extinction but rather are perfoming a cycle (function may be a better word) of galactic "natural selection". Each 50,000 years they invade the galaxy and try to wipe out civilized races. If they succeed with no opposition then the races were inferior and deserved to be wiped out. They then return to dark space.

During the between period they leave a conquered race behind to observe and "collect"as they evolve so that they can keep tabs on their development and spot races that are "exceptional" so that they know when the time is right to usher in a new era of extinction/selection.  

I think that other races have performed the task of the Collectors, remember the Protheans haven't been around that long, there were organics before them that served in this role. It is reasonable to presume that the Protheans destroyed them and when they eventually lost the Reapers put them in the place of the previous Collectors they destroyed in their war against the Reapers. The Reapers also leave behind a "vanguard" a gatekeeper for the Citadel so that the next cycle can begin one day. This was Sovreign/Nazara. The name "Nazara" more than likely refers to the alien race that "Sovereign" was created from. So a human Reaper would likewise be simply called "Human" or "Humanity".

But what happens if a race resists agaist all odds in the face of an unstoppable enemy? What if they fight admirably, or perhaps they discover the secrets of the Citadel and thwart a direct and easy Reaper invasion just like humanity and Shepard did? Well I think that things change then. If a race fights sucessfully against the Reapers and proves itself "worthy" then they are slated for "perfection". They are conquered, their biologcal forms melted down and the "essence" of their species is embodied in one perfect being. By doing this the Reapers have ensured that the greatest civilizations that have ever developed in the galaxy never die, but are instead "deified" and made immortal, eternal for all time. They have "saved them". This idea of taking races and "perfecting" them is likely key to understanding Reaper logic.

I think it is foolish to believe that the Reapers, beings that have existed for countless millions of years, have not encountered previous races that exhibited the exceptional qualities that Shepard and Humanity do. What greater weapon is there than the ability to turn your greatest foe into your ally, into one of you? This is what I believe the Reapers are, they are bio-mechanical race comprised of the greatest civilizations throughout the ages that the galaxy has existed. This would definitely explain their extreme hubris, that along with the fact they have existed for so long and grown stronger the whole time.

Now alot of people have begun to put foward thoughts on Dark energy and gathering armies for ME3 and I think that is is spot on. I'm just going to bullet some points that are kind of vague at this point based on the information we have, but I feel will play a big role in ME3.

Humanity-

Humanity has always been the focus of ME. Humans are the hotshots, they defeated the Reapers in ME1. They got the attention of the Reapers and were "selected" to join the Reaper club in ME2. Now in ME3 there are several directions that Reaper plans will go concering Humanity.

Personally I think that the climax of ME3 is going to take place in humanity's home system above Earth as the Reapers focus on humanity directly. I do think that there is going to be some un-avoidable DA:O gather an army part of the game, they have been working up to this for two games now, it would be a cop-out for them to to an end run-around on this now. Just because there was a similar mechanic in DA:O doesn't mean it can be used perfectly for ME3.

The Citadel would be a logical choice for a final showdown, but we have already had one epic space battle there. My money is on Earth. For two games now we have been able to travel to the 'Local System' but have only ever had one quest there on the Moon (Luna) and one easter-egg. I could be wrong, but I don't think its a coincidence.

Seeing a massive space battle rage between the Reapers versus the combined forces of the Council, Alliance, Quarians, Geth, Krogan, and Rachni in the space around Earth while indoctrinated slaves of the Reapers fight on the planet itself against those same forces makes for a perfectly legendary ending.

Of course the ending you have and who will be involved is based entirely on you the (players) choices throughout the trilogy. 

Dark Energy-

Lots of people have already focused in on this and I think it makes sense. I heard one theory that sounded plausible, that Reapers gain their enormous power from dark energy and this is how they can transpose their consciousness directy into other beings with the use of implants (Saren/ the Collector General/ Collector Minions). And also is likely connected to the indoctrination process as others have suggested.

It is very likely that Tail's quest on Haelstrom and the findings from the star in that system will help Shepard and his crew get a leg up on beating the Reapers. The quarian you find at Freedom's progress also speaks of 'dark energy' that surrounds the Collectors, the mention of this word and its prevalence across the game and in the codex isn't a mistake.

Perhaps a possible ending would include destroying the Sun in Earth's home system using artificial means (i.e. a weapon) after luring the Reapers there, the act would destroy or severely damage the Reaper fleet with a massive amout of  'dark energy' from the supernova and would fit in as a destroying the Reapers at all costs scenario.

After which a weakened Reaper fleet could be destroyed by the combined forces of the galaxy (who wouldn't stand a chance before). Humanity by and large would die and be sacrificed to save the galaxy but the Reapers would be defeated. Shepard (if he lives) would be tasked with re-building the remaining human race on a suitable new homeworld (like Eden Prime). Maybe multiple endings will exist, one with the Reapers winning and conquering Humanity, or one where Earth does not have to be destroyed to stop the Reapers. 

This is alot of conjecture I know but I wanted to see if anyone else has had the same sorts of thoughts on the plot that I have. Hope someone gets something from it!

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Modifié par SilverBecker, 09 février 2010 - 11:34 .


#185
PMorgan18

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We will "HOLD THE LINE."

#186
KnightofPhoenix

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schristofferson wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

schristofferson wrote...

wheeloftime32 wrote...

Another thing is this.  Civilization hasn't opened all of the mass effect portals. Mass Effect 2 hints at they don't because they are affraid of finding another race like the racni(sorry for the spelling).  I am sure the reapers probably have a back up portal they can come through. We just don't know about it.  Do you think a race as advanced as the reapers would put their eggs in one basket with the citadel.  


If there was a second, undiscovered portal, why would Sovereign have gone through all the trouble of having Saren break into the heavily-guarded Citadel?  Saren could have simply gone to the second portal and opened it, with no one the wiser.  The Citadel may well be such a resource-intensive undertaking that even the Reapers could only create one.


Because attacking the Citadel = wiping out any semblance of galactic government. they have been doing that God knows how many times, no need to change the plan because of some minor setbacks, or so Sovereign thought I suppose. 
So a second portal is still a possibility.


In the normal invasion scenario, the keepers open the Citadel relay and let the entire Reaper fleet in.  Sovereign's mission was never to take on all sentient life in the galaxy single-handed.  Attacking the Citadel with only the geth in support was a huge risk.  Why take it if he could have had a Reaper fleet instead?

Also, why would the Collectors draw attention to themselves by abducting millions of humans to create a new Reaper if they could have opened the second portal and let all the Reapers in?


But if Soereign did succeed and the Reapers came out in the Citadel, it would have knocked out all races for easy mop up. It was a risk and he took it. I don't see the problem. Sovereign isn't taking the organics out single handeldly. He is summoning the rest via the Citadel like he is supposed to do. Is he too rigid and unflexible? Maybe. But his plan nearly worked with only the Geth as support.

Unknown. Maybe they can't open the second relay. Maybe only a reaper can, hence the human reaper. Maybe in order to weaken humanity (kill Shepard) before the Reapers come. 

For now, everything is possible as we are arguing from the dark.  

#187
Justin2k

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Its pretty obvious. Shepard will kill the lead reaper which will cause all others to stop working.

OR Shepard will find a way to send all reapers to the ends of the galaxy.

I have a feeling "Mass Effect" will be used in some way.

Modifié par Justin2k, 10 février 2010 - 12:07 .


#188
Scire The Warden

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Shephard sacrifices his/her life to charge the normandy with an incredibly powerful biotic field and rams it straight into harbinger.

#189
Memnon

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Something devastating is going to have to happen ... like a home world is going to get obliterated. Maybe dark matter will be used to cause a sun to go supernova while the Reaper fleet is attacking the Asari homeworld

Modifié par Stornskar, 10 février 2010 - 12:12 .


#190
Zomg_A_Chicken

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There's probably going to be a huge battle at the end of ME3



On one side you have the combined fleets of Asari, Turian, Geth and Humans



And on the other side will be the Reapers



Pretty sweet battle makeup right there




#191
Rebel_Guy

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 Anybody else ever think that the reapers are on a non-stop killing spree? That they have Mass Relays in other

galaxys and use the citadels to go between galaxys and it just happens to take them 50,000 years to go in a rotation 

or whatever and reach the milky way again?

#192
VanguardtoDestruction

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Rebel_Guy wrote...

 Anybody else ever think that the reapers are on a non-stop killing spree? That they have Mass Relays in other

galaxys and use the citadels to go between galaxys and it just happens to take them 50,000 years to go in a rotation 

or whatever and reach the milky way again?


That's what I asked earlier in the thread.  I would not be surprised, since I believe only Vigil is the one who said they just wait in Darkspace, not Sovereign I believe.  

#193
sedrikhcain

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Zomg_A_Chicken wrote...

There's probably going to be a huge battle at the end of ME3

On one side you have the combined fleets of Asari, Turian, Geth and Humans

And on the other side will be the Reapers

Pretty sweet battle makeup right there


there would have to be more to it than just that, however, else the Reapers would rip through the Alliance, et al, like they were tin foil.

#194
sedrikhcain

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Free Reign wrote...


As for the ending most of you are envisioning, it's been stated by Dev's that Sheppard will die in ME3. What will most likely happen is that Sheppard will sneak onto Harbinger as a huge space battle goes on outside and activates the self destruct while he stays behind to occupy / weaken Harbinger enough for it to work. The rest of the team runs for the Normandy while he holds the hordes of enemies off. Roll sad montage.


I thought it was stated by devs that it's possible for him to die.

#195
jxd73

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Send the Citadel toward the nearest star, when it's near, reactivate the portal. Reapers teleport in, get pulled into the star and melted.

#196
VanguardtoDestruction

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jxd73 wrote...

Send the Citadel toward the nearest star, when it's near, reactivate the portal. Reapers teleport in, get pulled into the star and melted.


This may kill a few of them but the Reapers would quickly realize if the exit lead into a Sun.  I can infer that because they knew Sovereign was killed, so they would get sent notice that Reapers were getting fryed as they went through the portal.  Plus, I think the Citdael is too valuable for the stupid council to even consider it.

#197
wheeloftime32

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Maybe some way, some how the reapers are turning the sun that has been mentioned in this game into some sort of mass relay they can move through.  I don't know

I still feel people are looking at reapers on the outward side of things.  They aren't machines. They are dark energy. They use machines to house themselves, and all of the things they possess have to be machines or have a lot of machine work done with them.  IF you look at saren, the reaper upgrades slowly grew on him, and became more prevelent. 

#198
Tankfriend

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I wouldn't identify the Reapers as dark energy - that would mean that every biotic is basically manipulating a Reaper whenever he/she is using a biotic power. :D

"The term biotics refers to powers that are accessed and augmented by using bio-amps, or users thereof. The effects are produced through biological manipulation of dark energy."
http://masseffect.wi...om/wiki/Biotics

But I am rather sure that the Reapers have an advanced knowledge about dark energy - they more or less have to because they have been around for millions of years.
In any case, I think that all those things connected to dark energy will eventually play a very large role in ME3, especially because dark energy is far more present in ME2 than before.

Modifié par Tankfriend, 10 février 2010 - 06:36 .


#199
IbramSkyheart

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Knowing BioWare they're scouring these forums for all of the endings people are coming up with, collating them into one file, then purposely creating a different ending to stump all others :D

No one's actually speculated on where the Reapers came from (as far as I can see, at least). EDI states Reapers are sapient constructs, composed of both organic and synthetic components. Surely this indicates someone must have made the reapers to begin with?  Or at the very least they began as something similar to humans/asari/etc, and "evolved" (probably by themselves) along a path which ended in their current, gigantic bug form.

Maybe the origins of the reapers will somehow also provide their downfall.

Referring to the OP's theiry about collecting DNA and re-seeding the galaxy, it'd be interesting to learn that this is all a cycle in the classic sci-fi "this has happened before, it'll happen again" way.  For example, the Protheans were actually humans (afterall, no one's actually seen what one looks like) who were harvested/transformed into collectors.  Then the galaxy was re-seeded from the stored DNA and thus the cycle starts again.

There are plenty of flaws in that, but I think it'd be somewhat cool to learn.  Kind of along the lines of learning the Collectors used to be Protheans - Protheans used to be Humans.

Modifié par IbramSkyheart, 10 février 2010 - 08:51 .


#200
LexXxich

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Reapers are going to Milky Way without relay. It means they are going at light speed maximum. Judging from the look of the galaxy at the point where Reapers "woke up", they are pretty far, thousands of light years. Shepard might not be alive to deal with the Reaper threat.