305 réponses à ce sujet

[lovgreno]

Two years after they crash it's easy to see the empty bubbles yes. But the recent crisis was because everyone turned a blind eye. The rich were even more greedy than usual and everyone else was even more jelaous than usual. Loans and bubbles gives you a false sense of security and self esteem.



Well personaly I can't complain about how things turned out with Obama. I have profited well from it and it feels like it can benefit us all in the long run actualy.

[Weiser_Cain]

*Tries to ignore the tea party-ers*
I tend to think Humans benefited from timing as much as the fact that humans are always the middle of the road in just about any science fiction setting.
We're moderately strong. (Better than the Salarians and Asari, suck against the Krogan and the Turians)
We breed moderately fast. (Thanks genophage)
We have decent Biotics.
Beyond that we came in when the galaxie's worse problems were behind it but the other races were still recovering from it. There's also the fact that all the galactic races are using the same tech. That narrows what should be a huge technical advantage to minor tweaks.

Modifié par Weiser_Cain, 07 juin 2010 - 07:44 .

[Mangalores]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

It's hardly historically unknown for advanced civilizations hundreds of years or more advanced to stagnate and be eclipsed by people who, at the time of loss, were arguably hundreds if not thousands of years weaker. China is the most obvious example, the world military/economic/technological leader for hundreds if not over a thousand years, eclipsed by European states that had been in the Dark Ages for so long. The Roman Empire, with metalworking and social advancements hundreds approaching thousand years of progress were overwhelmed and defeated by German tribesmen. The Mongols took the most civilized nations of the planet, from China to the Middle East, and smashed them. Decades ago China wasn't even industrialized and was suffering the worst (man-made) famine in centuries: now it's regularly touted as the next superpower.

....

While a fair point those developments took centuries of change in the less advanced society and a nosedive in the more advanced one to amount to these end results. China beat the crap out of Mongols and relatives for centuries before succumbing to them. Similarily it took Romanized Germanic tribes nearly 500 years to stand on equal footing to Rome and it took several nasty plagues and economic and demographic collapse to exploit (also the reason it only worked in the West while the East remained quasi Roman for another 1000 years).

There is also the point that those supposedly barbaric civilizations were usually far more sophisticated than Romans or Chinese gave them credit for.

The thing is that there is little indication that the Council races are in the crapper like that.

[Spartas Husky]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

*Tries to ignore the tea party-ers*

Now
if your referring to me...you got my all wrong. I love Obama. I hope he
stays for another term. he is just like Bush...bad for the country,
good for sly careful investors like me lol.
So please dont compare me
to them tea guys. Unlike them, I love corrupt policians, and since I
reached 18, half a decade ago, it has only gotten sweeter lol

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 07 juin 2010 - 01:26 .

[lovgreno]

You should be in buisness Spartas Husky. Those tea partyers have nothing that interests me either by the way. But now we are derailing this thread so let's continue this discussion some other time and place.



Good point Mangalores, Empires almost always destroy themselves rather than being conquered.

[Dean_the_Young]

Mangalores wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

It's hardly historically unknown for advanced civilizations hundreds of years or more advanced to stagnate and be eclipsed by people who, at the time of loss, were arguably hundreds if not thousands of years weaker. China is the most obvious example, the world military/economic/technological leader for hundreds if not over a thousand years, eclipsed by European states that had been in the Dark Ages for so long. The Roman Empire, with metalworking and social advancements hundreds approaching thousand years of progress were overwhelmed and defeated by German tribesmen. The Mongols took the most civilized nations of the planet, from China to the Middle East, and smashed them. Decades ago China wasn't even industrialized and was suffering the worst (man-made) famine in centuries: now it's regularly touted as the next superpower.

....

While a fair point those developments took centuries of change in the less advanced society and a nosedive in the more advanced one to amount to these end results. China beat the crap out of Mongols and relatives for centuries before succumbing to them. Similarily it took Romanized Germanic tribes nearly 500 years to stand on equal footing to Rome and it took several nasty plagues and economic and demographic collapse to exploit (also the reason it only worked in the West while the East remained quasi Roman for another 1000 years).

There is also the point that those supposedly barbaric civilizations were usually far more sophisticated than Romans or Chinese gave them credit for.

The thing is that there is little indication that the Council races are in the crapper like that.

We can know them as the Rachni Wars and Krogan Rebellions, for story purposes.

[blank1]

There's so much bantering on this thread, as if the reason humans are on the council is hypothetical. It isn't.



First off, the Alliance isn't weak, and the humanity doesn't have a council seat just because we helped out with sovereign. Here are a few reasons provided in-game, and in-canon, that humans have so much power so quickly.



1. We have a large fleet. No, we don't have a lot of dreadnoughts, but it is mentioned that humanity basically invented the fighter-carrier. I am willing to bet that we have the most of them, if we invented them. Also, the reason dreadnoughts used to be the measure of a government's military might is because the only thing that could beat a dreadnought is another dreadnought. The Alliance changed that -- they invented Disruptor torpedoes and the Javelin weapons system (Not the modern day anti-armor/building weapon, obviously), which allows fighters and frigates to kill dreadnoughts, which was impossible for them before. Basically, human vessels punch *way* above their weight.



2. We were in the right place at the right time. The Council is perpetually nervous about the Terminus Systems, and it just so happens that the Skyllian Verge is right there next to them. By having the Alliance representing Council interests, the Terminus can be "checked up" on more readily. Also, we were the closest to the Citadel when Sovereign attacked, so we were able to get there and save the day (With a crapton of help from Shepard, obviously), and then reaped the benefits of the Citadel needing to replace its fleet more more ships -- hey there Alliance!

[Gweedotk]

this thread is more or less dead. But I gotta bring it back to life, and I know I will . I'm not going to bother to read previous pages, probably a huge "lol" though. Don't know how the hell liberals and tea partiers got involved. I guess I shouldn't be surprised politics was already brought in, I'm about to bring more in anyway.

My complaints with humanity being portrayed as somehow a great species just bugs the crap out of me. We're monkey's for christ sake lol, we're soft, and our economic society breeds corruption and greed. On Earth compared to the rest of it's life, we are pretty well ahead of the rest in terms of ingenuity... But isn't that the result of... well hell I'll just say it, sentience?

I think I said waayyyyy back that BioWare did a pretty good job with making this game fairly unbiased compared to the rest of the market, it's uniquity is likely what made it's sales so huge. Since ME3 is supposed to be 'darker', I don't see why we need to keep the sheer weight in idealism around.

That's right, my problem is the bulk of idealism involved in human society. They showed off the military as an honorable place full of soldiers who have integrity. It just makes you want to go enlist doesn't it?

But the thing is, if you've been in the military you'll know it's a not a happy go lucky place. I don't mean "duh, you're in war, it's not going to be a luxury cruise". I mean it's full of gang bangers and dropouts (not a stereotype, it really is), one of the branches (yep the marines) brainwashes everyone who enters, and the officer ranks are overflowing with politics (they do quite a bit of nasty things to get ahead, it can take awhile to gain ranks after-all). Now this is in the US, I may be stepping out of place by assuming it's similar in most other countries.

So yeah, I'm a little disgusted that humans are once more portrayed as "the good guys". I get the choices, renegade = humans are da best. Neutral = More or less human dominance. Paragon = I think this one is more of a powerful nation that tolerates or at least prefers to have allies.

I'd just like Bioware to tone it down on the idealism and implied human superiority (it's there under the surface, no need to deny it). It would generate more sales, hell it'd be closer to reality lol. Although I'm not sure how EA would like this... I know how publishers screw over devs everywhere day in and day out. I'd hope they wouldn't try and get in the way.

Modifié par Gweedotk, 14 avril 2011 - 08:36 .

[jbadm04]

all the races in ME universe are pretty much "technological and culturaly stagnat" as Mordin says. Look at the humanity right now, technological advance? Not in the past couple of years. IE cars, cars are still using 4 wheels, an otto-engine, are fueled by carbonhydroxides (or whatever its called). Thats it, we got wireless keys to close the car, electrical window lifters, gps is installed, even a coffee making machine can be installed. Beside of that, there are no improvements to a car in the last 100 years. Techprogress means "energy saving". "Cant carry a load, so invent spear"... energy saving. "Cant catch food, so invent a spear"... energy saving. Actualy, the energy consumption to travel from a to b even increased over the last years. Pretty much the same it is for "guided missiles", installing a computer into a rocket is not techprogress. Progress is when going from conventional to nuclear to hydrogen bomb etc. Computer had the most recent progress, but is stagnating again. Reducing the size of chips (miniaturizing) and even adding cores to a cpu is no real progress, its improvement yes, but no progress. I can see how it works when you get "everything" from some prothean "ruins/relics". The ME univery actualy has everything and dont need any real science, sure they impore motion dampeners, guns and whatever, but that improves what they have only a bit and is no real progress. Sovereign even says it too, "by using our technology you develop in the way we desire"... this arent just some hollow words. So when humans discover that intact cache on Mars, they pretty much reach the tech level of the rest in "no time". Thurians and the rest may have better design etc, but when compared, the tech is exactly the same.

Modifié par jbadm04, 14 avril 2011 - 04:18 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

The necromancers get more bold day by day. First six month old threads, now ten month old...

[Ieldra]

As I said on one of the previous pages, it bears repeating.

I don't mind humans being strong newcomers, but keep it in the realm of the plausible. From system-bound species to galactic power in 35 years is preposterous. The other species might stagnate - that means humanity has the chance to catch up in the first place - but it'll take a lot more than 35 years. Add a zero and things get more believable.

This ridiculously compressed timeline has bugged me since ME1.

[Mouton_Alpha]

As was sad before many times, poor writing. Let's hope ME3 has less idiocy, plot holes and making stupid stuff up just to achieve some short term story goal.

[Gweedotk]

ReconTeam wrote...

The necromancers get more bold day by day. First six month old threads, now ten month old...

Beats a new thread right?

It appears to me that quite a few people are bothered by it... I'm surprised actually, I kinda assumed I'd be alone on this one.

[Almostfaceman]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

As was sad before many times, poor writing. Let's hope ME3 has less idiocy, plot holes and making stupid stuff up just to achieve some short term story goal.

I'm not sure why they'd bother, if you're going to complain, ****, moan, nag and nit-pick yet still buy their products why should they?

[Almostfaceman]

Ieldra2 wrote...

As I said on one of the previous pages, it bears repeating.

I don't mind humans being strong newcomers, but keep it in the realm of the plausible. From system-bound species to galactic power in 35 years is preposterous. The other species might stagnate - that means humanity has the chance to catch up in the first place - but it'll take a lot more than 35 years. Add a zero and things get more believable.

This ridiculously compressed timeline has bugged me since ME1.

Any yet here you are getting ready to buy ME3 I bet.

"Don't you dare make humans too special Bioware! Or else I'll... I'll... complain some moar!"

[Almostfaceman]

Gweedotk wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

The necromancers get more bold day by day. First six month old threads, now ten month old...

Beats a new thread right?

It appears to me that quite a few people are bothered by it... I'm surprised actually, I kinda assumed I'd be alone on this one.

Never under-estimate the power of your fellow human beings to find something to complain about.  If we could tap the energy we spend whining, we'd never need to burn another drop of oil.

Modifié par Almostfaceman, 14 avril 2011 - 04:00 .

[Whatever42]

I'd whine about the insane whining but then someone would just whine about my whining and then I would whine about their whining about my whining about the other person's whining.

And then eventually, all the whining would generate an overwhelming gravitational force which pulls in other whining and we'd end up with a whining singularity, from which not even rational comment could escape and the entire forums would collapse.

I can't be responsible for that so I'll just say nothing.

[Mouton_Alpha]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

As was sad before many times, poor writing. Let's hope ME3 has less idiocy, plot holes and making stupid stuff up just to achieve some short term story goal.

I'm not sure why they'd bother, if you're going to complain, ****, moan, nag and nit-pick yet still buy their products why should they?

Life is not binary, it is not black or white, love or hate. I thoroughly enjoyed ME2, but it doesn't mean I have to ignore it's glaring flaws. For the record, ME story and setting were way more internally coherent, despite the game itself being inferior to ME2 in other areas.

[naledgeborn]

Solitas777 wrote...

How is it that humanity became as strong as the council races in like three decades? Stolen prothean tech? Also, even if the council was killed in the last game how is it possible they didnt send replacements? Are you telling me the Asari, Turian, and Salarians entire military was at the citadel?

"The Alliance military is of great concern to the galaxy. At first contact with the turians, they were completely inexperienced. Turian disdain turned to respect after the relief of Shanxi, where the humans surprised them with novel technologies and tactics.

The human devotion to understanding and adapting to modern space warfare stunned the staid Council races. For hundreds of years, they had lived behind the secure walls of long-proven technology and tactics. The Council regards the Alliance as a "sleeping giant". Less than 3% of humans volunteer to serve in their military, a lower proportion than any other species.

While competent, Alliance soldiers are neither as professional as the turians nor as skilled as the asari. Their strengths lie in fire support, flexibility, and speed. They make up for lack of numbers with sophisticated technical support (V.I.s, drones, artillery, electronic warfare) and emphasis on mobility and individual initiative.

Their doctrine is not based on absorbing and dishing out heavy shocks like the turians and krogan. Rather, they bypass enemy strong points and launch deep into their rear, cutting supply lines and destroying headquarters and support units, leaving enemies to "wither on the vine".

On defensive, the human military is a rapid reaction force that lives by Sun Tzu's maxim, "He who tries to defend everything defends nothing." Garrisons are intended for scouting rather than combat, avoiding engagement to observe and report on invaders using drones.

The token garrisons of human colonies make it easy for alien powers to secure them, for which the Alliance media criticizes the military. However, the powerful fleets stationed at phase gate nexuses such as Arcturus are just a few hours or days from any colony within their sphere of responsibility. In the event of an attack, they respond with an overwhelming force." - Systems Alliance: Military Doctrine

Modifié par naledgeborn, 14 avril 2011 - 03:26 .

[naledgeborn]

double

Modifié par naledgeborn, 14 avril 2011 - 03:25 .

[Almostfaceman]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

As was sad before many times, poor writing. Let's hope ME3 has less idiocy, plot holes and making stupid stuff up just to achieve some short term story goal.

I'm not sure why they'd bother, if you're going to complain, ****, moan, nag and nit-pick yet still buy their products why should they?

Life is not binary, it is not black or white, love or hate. I thoroughly enjoyed ME2, but it doesn't mean I have to ignore it's glaring flaws. For the record, ME story and setting were way more internally coherent, despite the game itself being inferior to ME2 in other areas.

By all means keep saying you thoroughly enjoyed something that is idiotic, plot-hole filled, poorly written, and makes stupid stuff up. 

[Mouton_Alpha]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

As was sad before many times, poor writing. Let's hope ME3 has less idiocy, plot holes and making stupid stuff up just to achieve some short term story goal.

I'm not sure why they'd bother, if you're going to complain, ****, moan, nag and nit-pick yet still buy their products why should they?

Life is not binary, it is not black or white, love or hate. I thoroughly enjoyed ME2, but it doesn't mean I have to ignore it's glaring flaws. For the record, ME story and setting were way more internally coherent, despite the game itself being inferior to ME2 in other areas.

By all means keep saying you thoroughly enjoyed something that is idiotic, plot-hole filled, poorly written, and makes stupid stuff up. 

Please re-read my original statement before you lash out again: I said it contained idiocy ("ah, reapers"), plot holes (eeeveryone needs to leave Normandy on an unspecified mission right now)  and stupid stuff (humans rule teh universe after like ten months in space). I didn't say it was filled with them. Actually, the very fact that the game has a lot of brilliance and sheer awesomeness, makes the bad parts more jarring. Obviously, I hope the odds are better in ME3.

[Akizora]

In pretty much every science fiction it has always been pointed out that humans are impatient, we demand progress and we hate stagnation. We always seek to improve our technology and ourselves in any way possible, we will take, reverse-engineer, cannabalize and rebuild everything we find. This accompanied by innate biotic potential, physical strength similar to Turians even though physical build is inferior (they have tougher skin). We breed fast and we have a moderately long lifespan (150ish years in ME)...that and we have ZEH_PLOT on our side.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Basic answer? Trade, purchases, and innovation

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 14 avril 2011 - 05:39 .

[Legbiter]

Humans breed fast and have aggressively been colonizing other worlds at breakneck speed at least compared to the competition. Throw in an ever expanding military power a voila! We're 1848 Prussia in space.