305 réponses à ce sujet

[GnusmasTHX]

Doug84 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Nautica773 wrote...

You know, for all the talk of genetic diversity, Vorcha have us beat hands down. You don't see them heading the new Council though.

They live 20 years and have developed only primitive levels of technology. The only reason you see them carrying guns is because krogans practically give it to them.

Also their brain development doesn't seem to compensate for their short life span, most of the ones you meet are nearly illiterate, but that might be more indicative of their upbringing and culture.

More so, regenerative cells aren't genetic diversity. It's just a trait they have. Likewise you could argue a flatworm should be on the Council, as they are equally moronic and of low technological standards.

Indeed - the Vorcha aren't exactly thinkers. Though the short life span isn't necessarily a problem - the Salarians only live to about 40.

Can't really say, but the most obvious problem is that the vorcha spend their lifespans being idiots, rather than efficiently using their time to study in whatever field, like the salarians. Or at least Mordin's nephew.

[aauxraydar]

I remember reading somewhere that Humanity is suppose to have expanded much further before contacting the council than any other race, so even though they've only been part of the community for three decades Humans are equal to the big three in terms of overall power.

[aeetos21]

I agree, take a look at how long it took for America to become a world superpower. About a hundred and fifty years? Fifty once the Industrial Revolution came around?



In two years the Alliance went from new kid on the block to dominating the galaxy. I think somewhere along the way there was some divine intervention going on - or somebody sold their soul. Either way, it's a lot to swallow and even though this is science fiction Bioware is really pushing the realm of believability in ME2.

[Doug84]

Himmelstor wrote...

Himmelstor wrote...

TeaCokeProphet wrote...

Turians established as council space protectors. Militaristic, autocratic. Yet humans have "larger galactic presence"? Possible that genotypic traits determine personality making humans more tenacious. Seems likely that Bioware intentionally makes humans better than others.

"Larger galactic presence." Not larger than every other fleet. Just stronger than normal.
You refer to the treaty of Farixen. But the treaty only limits Dreadnoughts. Humans compensate with more, smaller ships and carriers.

Because apparantly not read.
Also, Treaty of Farixen goes: Turians 5, COUNCIL RACES: 3, Others:1.
Now humans on Council, can build more dreadnoughts.

That'll take time - those things are HUGE - the Density Ascention had a crew of 10,000 according to paragonShep when talking to the bad reporter.

[Doug84]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

GnusmasTHX wrote...

Nautica773 wrote...

You know, for all the talk of genetic diversity, Vorcha have us beat hands down. You don't see them heading the new Council though.

They live 20 years and have developed only primitive levels of technology. The only reason you see them carrying guns is because krogans practically give it to them.

Also their brain development doesn't seem to compensate for their short life span, most of the ones you meet are nearly illiterate, but that might be more indicative of their upbringing and culture.

More so, regenerative cells aren't genetic diversity. It's just a trait they have. Likewise you could argue a flatworm should be on the Council, as they are equally moronic and of low technological standards.

Indeed - the Vorcha aren't exactly thinkers. Though the short life span isn't necessarily a problem - the Salarians only live to about 40.

Can't really say, but the most obvious problem is that the vorcha spend their lifespans being idiots, rather than efficiently using their time to study in whatever field, like the salarians. Or at least Mordin's nephew.

True - the Vocha are easily led idiots. Its amazing they where able to even carry out the Collectors orders.

[gauntz]

Genetically diverse is a bull**** argument. It doesn't matter at all whether or not one human has a fairly minor advantage over another in terms of vitamin D absorption (white skin.) Yay, black people have 0.5% denser skeletons than the rest of us and have a slight, slight advantage in running while white people are similarly advantaged in swimming etc. This obviously makes us far superior to alien races who make grizzlys look tame and yet breed like rabbits.

[Doug84]

aeetos21 wrote...

I agree, take a look at how long it took for America to become a world superpower. About a hundred and fifty years? Fifty once the Industrial Revolution came around?

In two years the Alliance went from new kid on the block to dominating the galaxy. I think somewhere along the way there was some divine intervention going on - or somebody sold their soul. Either way, it's a lot to swallow and even though this is science fiction Bioware is really pushing the realm of believability in ME2.

Where are you getting 2 years from? 

The Alliance meet the council 37-ish years before Soverign attacked, I think. Might have been more.

[Draconis6666]

vorcha arent geneticaly diverse they are geneticaly adaptable, they are not the same things, 6 vorcha that develop in the same environment will develop the same thats not diversity.

[Nautica773]

Draconis6666 wrote...

vorcha arent geneticaly diverse they are geneticaly adaptable, they are not the same things, 6 vorcha that develop in the same environment will develop the same thats not diversity.

People are arguing that the genetic diversity of mankind makes them better at adapting to new environments. This is a fallacy since the Vorcha aren't genetically diverse but have rapid adaptation to environments. Thus, genetic diversity as adaptation can not solely explain our elevated position in galactic politics.

[Draconis6666]

Doug84 wrote...

That'll take time - those things are HUGE - the Density Ascention had a crew of 10,000 according to paragonShep when talking to the bad reporter.

They have built 8 already inside 50 years which is half the number the salarians who were the second race on the council CENTURIES ago have id say thats a pretty good start^^

[Draconis6666]

genetic diversity is far more than just your environment adaptablity perhaps people who think its bull**** should actually go do some research into what is actually affected by your genetics.

[Kharn-ivor]

I think humans are ingenious at solving problems quickly and efficiently.



And im not sure but their seems to be a damn lot of humans in mass effect, maybe we breed comparitivly fast and survive well dunno.

[Doug84]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

That'll take time - those things are HUGE - the Density Ascention had a crew of 10,000 according to paragonShep when talking to the bad reporter.

They have built 8 already inside 50 years which is half the number the salarians who were the second race on the council CENTURIES ago have id say thats a pretty good start^^

The Salarians aren't really into build ships and massive armies - they have the STGs and their role in the council is as spies and intelligence gathering. Its not really surprising they don't have their full complement of dreadnoughts. To them, its a waste of resources and cash. The treaty of Fernix just set the upper limit based on the Turian fleet size, as far as I can tell.

[Default137]

Once again.



WW1 was just under 100 years ago, WW2 was only around 60-70 years ago.



Look at how far we have advanced our tech since then.



Hell, look how far our tech advanced from WW1 to WW2, we went from our strongest weapon being the Mortar, to DROPPING NUCLEAR WARHEADS ON CITIES in under 30 years.



Humanities strength is not how adaptable we are, its not how diverse we are, its the fact we pick up on things amazingly fast, and when pressed, we can quickly understand new ideas, and bring them to life far faster then most other things on our planet can, and with the addition of Prothean Tech/Council Support, I'm surprised we didn't advance even faster in the ME universe.

[Draconis6666]

Doug84 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

That'll take time - those things are HUGE - the Density Ascention had a crew of 10,000 according to paragonShep when talking to the bad reporter.

They have built 8 already inside 50 years which is half the number the salarians who were the second race on the council CENTURIES ago have id say thats a pretty good start^^

The Salarians aren't really into build ships and massive armies - they have the STGs and their role in the council is as spies and intelligence gathering. Its not really surprising they don't have their full complement of dreadnoughts. To them, its a waste of resources and cash. The treaty of Fernix just set the upper limit based on the Turian fleet size, as far as I can tell.

Thats true but it doesn't change the fact that the alliance has built 8 dreadnaughts inside 50 years, now consider that many of those were made before the alliance had really started its colony expansion and before it was made a council race, its not hard to see the alliance being able to quickly reach the new cap imposed upon it by the treaty of Farixen

[ReubenLiew]

Because we are the human freakin' race.

[Nautica773]

Draconis6666 wrote...

genetic diversity is far more than just your environment adaptablity perhaps people who think its bull**** should actually go do some research into what is actually affected by your genetics.

Please, elaborate.

And while you're at it, explain how the Asari who manipulate their genetic code to incorporate every species they mate with into their own are less diverse than humans. 

[Doug84]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

That'll take time - those things are HUGE - the Density Ascention had a crew of 10,000 according to paragonShep when talking to the bad reporter.

They have built 8 already inside 50 years which is half the number the salarians who were the second race on the council CENTURIES ago have id say thats a pretty good start^^

The Salarians aren't really into build ships and massive armies - they have the STGs and their role in the council is as spies and intelligence gathering. Its not really surprising they don't have their full complement of dreadnoughts. To them, its a waste of resources and cash. The treaty of Fernix just set the upper limit based on the Turian fleet size, as far as I can tell.

Thats true but it doesn't change the fact that the alliance has built 8 dreadnaughts inside 50 years, now consider that many of those were made before the alliance had really started its colony expansion and before it was made a council race, its not hard to see the alliance being able to quickly reach the new cap imposed upon it by the treaty of Farixen

I don't think the Alliance has reached that limit; though on a side note, it was cool to heard on the news that, if you're a Spacer origin character, Shepards mom gets made the Captain of a human dreadnought.

Anywho, I think the Turians originally had 39 in ME 1 - unsure if any where destroyed in the Soverign battle; so if we assume the Turians lost no dreadnoughts then, humans are entitled to have 23 or 24 dreadnoughts of their own. I believe they had 8 in ME1.

[durasteel]

Because humans breed like krogan and fight like turians.

[Draconis6666]

Because they dont make their genetic code "different" as much as they add on to what is already there that doesnt alter the underlying genetic code of what it is to be an asari which is apparently not very diverse from what we are told. If you take two Asari from the same mother with a different father the genetic difference is probably very small while two human children born from the same mother with different father's can be very very different at a genetic level

[The_mango55]

Nautica773 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

genetic diversity is far more than just your environment adaptablity perhaps people who think its bull**** should actually go do some research into what is actually affected by your genetics.

Please, elaborate.

And while you're at it, explain how the Asari who manipulate their genetic code to incorporate every species they mate with into their own are less diverse than humans. 

They don't actually do this.

They use another race's geneic code to randomize their own genetics. They also may gain some personality traits from the father.

[SunfighterG8]

Because the humans are the jack of all trades type race. Each major race right now has a defined thing they are good at...humans dont have a defined area of expertise and therefore can be anything. Its that flexibilty that makes them strong. Vorcha are nearly as good, but they are too damn dumb! If they had brains theyd be even better then humans.

[Nautica773]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Because they dont make their genetic code "different" as much as they add on to what is already there that doesnt alter the underlying genetic code of what it is to be an asari which is apparently not very diverse from what we are told. If you take two Asari from the same mother with a different father the genetic difference is probably very small while two human children born from the same mother with different father's can be very very different at a genetic level

I don't think it's as different as you think it is. Nor do genetics code for what you think they do. You realize, on a genetic level, humans and chimpanzees have almost 98% identical DNA, right? Furthermore, most of the genetic code is what we deem 'junk DNA'. It's superfluous coding that doesn't really produce anything of meaning. The rest? Mostly instructions that create the proteins, amino acids and other building blocks of our bodies. 

Humanity's "great" genetic diversity would be less than 1% of their entire genetic code. 

The_mango55 wrote...
They don't actually do this.

They use another race's geneic code to randomize their own genetics. They also may gain some personality traits from the father.

Isn't that what reproduction is? When a women gets pregnant, the fetus isn't going to have some new nucleobase added to its chromosomes. What it inherits from its mother and father is just the different sequencing of the different nucleobases. In theory, if a woman were capable of reorganizing these bases herself, she wouldn't need a male to procreate and still produce an individual with a different genetic makeup.

Modifié par Nautica773, 06 février 2010 - 10:48 .

[Tamcia]

Hy are not. Hey have weakest military (number of dreads 8, salarians have 16, asari 20, turians like 36 or smth). Number of colonies isn't much larger nor is the population. Tech is not so advanced as well.



If you look at the timeline you will notice how suprisngly fast humans reached what they have now - even though thy still have much catching up to do.

[aeetos21]

30 years since the First Contact War... I think. Anyway, humanity was still the new kids on the block in ME1 - I forget the ratio of their ships compared to the Turian and Asari but I know it was pretty significant. I think the Alliance would have had to multiply their navy/military power by 300% in two years in order to become the new dominant military power.



I'll follow through on it later.