305 réponses à ce sujet

[Spartas Husky]

Long periods of peace usually lead to very weak forms of military doctrine being kept.



Humans didn't had that "break" in conflicts, a thousand year of so peace....man, I hate to say it, but no military mind in the right mind would want that for his country....it just utterly destroyes your mindset. Not on the strategic level, but on the tactical level.



But is a game after all so.... made by humans at that ....and EA is behind it, so we can't expect alot of brain cells to be rubed together

[Foolsfolly]

Christmas Ape wrote...

They've even got metal skin!

Which is specifically mentioned as being ineffective as armor in the Codex entry.

But likely does wonders for their pain tolerance since metal is non-organic.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Christmas Ape wrote...

They've even got metal skin!

Which is specifically mentioned as being ineffective as armor in the Codex entry.

Turians have a bio-metalic epidermis... yet are organic... 

Christmas Ape wrote...

Because our high levels of genetic divergence, as compared to other discovered species, lets us cover a broader range of options. We can put out career soldiers the match for any turian, and economists who keep pace with volus.

Where asari culture values co-operation and turian culture is about supporting the group, human culture could be perhaps best summarized as "success-based". How you did it isn't always as important as that you did it very well. Medi-gel is a great example: it's technically illegal but completely indispensable. What turian scientist would bring that kind of potential censure against his company? While this is something we tend to share with the salarians, living almost three times as long also permits us to step back a little.

In a related note, our intra-species competitive drive is still 'sharp' - our homeworld isn't even united by a single government. We see the other guy doing something and think "Well, hell, I can do that and better!" and we go for it because sitting around saying that isn't success.

As the newest kids on the block (with in-game representatives), and combined with the above, we're unconventional. Carriers, medi-gel, the drown-them-in-projectiles broadside of a Kilimanjaro-class dreadnought; we don't have centuries of successful space battles to point to and say "this works just fine" - and that wouldn't satisfy all of us anyway.

Citadel space was, in a word, unprepared for the Protheans accidentally(?) uplifting us.

I guess humans have a ideal philosophy, emotional and psychological/behavioral traits (the opportunist, never wanting to fail... I want to always win trait). Maybe human determination actually works, and make them ideal partners with other sentient races.

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 30 mai 2010 - 09:45 .

[Spartas Husky]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

They've even got metal skin!

Which is specifically mentioned as being ineffective as armor in the Codex entry.

But likely does wonders for their pain tolerance since metal is non-organic.

Isn't their skin just a thicker hide like skin? nothing special about it, besides that it diminishes or slows down radiation getting deeper down into the tissue.

Dont think tha puts pain down.... then again Garrus didn't seem to scream with his jaw broken off...a normal person with a broken jaw would still moan or scream/moan like crazy...so maybe it is pain resistant skin lol

[Gweedotk]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

TeaCokeProphet wrote...



Invalid. Other species around for much longer. Human dominance unlikely, no matter the heroics. Bioware = xenophobic.

{smilie} I just totally imagined what you said in a salarian's voice.



I agree... not one particular species completely dominate a galaxy... (other than the reapers in this case)



Humans becoming a major player in galactic governments on the other hand doesn't seem impossible (intuition, ingenuity, etc).

This is what I prefer, humans filling a certain galactic niche. As for government, I'd think Asari with their millenia-long life spans and peaceful, learned ways would fill that role. I'm not sure what role humans would fill, perhaps something involving engineers, theres where our intuition and ingenuity would be used. But from human history and our tendency toward individualism and not-so-selfless attitude, I'd say any position in government or economics wouldn't be good. =P

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

They've even got metal skin!

Which is specifically mentioned as being ineffective as armor in the Codex entry.

But likely does wonders for their pain tolerance since metal is non-organic.

Isn't their skin just a thicker hide like skin? nothing special about it, besides that it diminishes or slows down radiation getting deeper down into the tissue.

Dont think tha puts pain down.... then again Garrus didn't seem to scream with his jaw broken off...a normal person with a broken jaw would still moan or scream/moan like crazy...so maybe it is pain resistant skin lol

didn't wrex mentioned something about a redundant nerve system?... not feeling much pain... 

[Vicious]

I read a sci-fi novel when I was in high school [lol i know] and the premise was a bunch of nice aliens enlisting the help of Humanity to fight another alien race that was stomping the hell out of them.



Basically the idea was that Humanity was an evolved killer that the other races were not; despite their awesome tech they were literally morons at fighting and killing, which is something we as humans have specialized in.





The whole SUBTEXT was preachy ****e about humanity's own warlike nature, but it was interesting nontheless.







BTW the answer to this question is to ask Harbinger. He literally will go down the list and tell you why Humans rock and everyone else sucks hard. He's pretty cool that way.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Gweedotk wrote...

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

TeaCokeProphet wrote...

Invalid. Other species around for much longer. Human dominance unlikely, no matter the heroics. Bioware = xenophobic.

{smilie} I just totally imagined what you said in a salarian's voice.

I agree... not one particular species completely dominate a galaxy... (other than the reapers in this case)

Humans becoming a major player in galactic governments on the other hand doesn't seem impossible (intuition, ingenuity, etc).

This is what I prefer, humans filling a certain galactic niche. As for government, I'd think Asari with their millenia-long life spans and peaceful, learned ways would fill that role. I'm not sure what role humans would fill, perhaps something involving engineers, theres where our intuition and ingenuity would be used. But from human history and our tendency toward individualism and not-so-selfless attitude, I'd say any position in government or economics wouldn't be good. =P

Depends... not every human is the same... some humans make great political leaders and some are hitlers (bad choice)... that's why there's a democratic/voting process (filtering out who's more fit).

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 30 mai 2010 - 09:52 .

[Aradace]

Nautica773 wrote...

Because players wouldn't like seeing their race being marginalized for three full games.

This....(for the most part along with a few other things not really worth mentioning)

[Foolsfolly]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Long periods of peace usually lead to very weak forms of military doctrine being kept.

Humans didn't had that "break" in conflicts, a thousand year of so peace....man, I hate to say it, but no military mind in the right mind would want that for his country....it just utterly destroyes your mindset. Not on the strategic level, but on the tactical level.

But is a game after all so.... made by humans at that ....and EA is behind it, so we can't expect alot of brain cells to be rubed together

Everyone makes it sound like the Citadel races have fallen into a peace time lull. There's never been peace in the history of the ME universe. The asari bartender on Ilium says herself that they can't go a single lifetime without a major war.

The Terminius systems have so many warlords, gangs, and war that there is no real body of stable government. There are slave raids into Council space, the Traverse is a ghetto, there's civil wars...rising AI...rachni and krogan wars within the last life time for krogan and asari.

The Council did have the biggest fleet in space but they're aware that it's not enough to stand up to a collective Terminius fleet. They use their military as a poltical tool first and foremost like any modern nation on earth. They have wars all the time.

The Council isn't the Old Republic. It just doesn't have the respect or resources to upkeep and protect the vast distances of their dominion.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Aradace wrote...

Nautica773 wrote...

Because players wouldn't like seeing their race being marginalized for three full games.

This....(for the most part along with a few other things not really worth mentioning)

I think having a broad perspective spectrum of things are important.

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 30 mai 2010 - 10:15 .

[Spartas Husky]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

Long periods of peace usually lead to very weak forms of military doctrine being kept.

Humans didn't had that "break" in conflicts, a thousand year of so peace....man, I hate to say it, but no military mind in the right mind would want that for his country....it just utterly destroyes your mindset. Not on the strategic level, but on the tactical level.

But is a game after all so.... made by humans at that ....and EA is behind it, so we can't expect alot of brain cells to be rubed together

Everyone makes it sound like the Citadel races have fallen into a peace time lull. There's never been peace in the history of the ME universe. The asari bartender on Ilium says herself that they can't go a single lifetime without a major war.

The Terminius systems have so many warlords, gangs, and war that there is no real body of stable government. There are slave raids into Council space, the Traverse is a ghetto, there's civil wars...rising AI...rachni and krogan wars within the last life time for krogan and asari.

The Council did have the biggest fleet in space but they're aware that it's not enough to stand up to a collective Terminius fleet. They use their military as a poltical tool first and foremost like any modern nation on earth. They have wars all the time.

The Council isn't the Old Republic. It just doesn't have the respect or resources to upkeep and protect the vast distances of their dominion.

hey I am just syaing what is mentioned on the codex. take a breath please .

A nation whose military arm is first and foremost a political tool, is doom to fail.

The recipe for success is to know how to use the elements of  war.

Wait I think mw2, has the best explanation I have ever seen in agame.

"it matters who has the biggest stick, but it matters a hell of a lot more who is swining it"

adding to that, most importantly, it matters most who has the guts to swing it, and to keep him/herself from swinging it.

Mindless swinging, and never swining it doesn't lead to alot.

But again we dont knw alot about the history to be making claims.

The Asari says "major" war... what is major, the codex says until first contact, there were nearly 1000 years of relative peace...relative peace means sporatic minor conflicts, sporadic conflicts aren't wars....well some can be but duno. So again, dont know enough about the history in those 1000 years before first contact to say alot.

[Ieldra]

Here's something that demonstrates the absurdity of humanity's power in the galaxy after only 33 years of colonization plainly:

Human colonization begins in 2150. 33 years later, the Turian councillor we all love to hate speaks of "a few dozen human colonies" as if that were a pittance.

Now, this can be interpreted two ways, but both lead to a similar absurdity:

First possibility: humanity did indeed expand fast enough that in 2183, they have so many colonies that a few dozen don't seem that significant. That would mean a few hundred, say, at least 300 human colonies in other star systems created in 33 years. Imagine the logistics of that and tell me it's not absurd. But it gets worse: where did they find all those empty worlds? Other races with a similar physiology have explored more or less the same area of space for thousands of years. Remember we're speaking of a galaxy where the network of mass relays is the limiting factor - you can't just go anywhere. Why aren't all these worlds already occupied by someone else?

Second possibility: The Turian councillor uses Turian standards when he says that, and humanity does really only have a plausible number of colonies. Which means, the Turians now have so many colonies that a few dozen are are a pittance, while humanity has significantly less, maybe by an order of magnitude. In that case, the assumption that humanity can act as a great power in the galaxy is even more plainly absurd, even after a significant part of the Turian fleet has been lost, for they have so much more resources they can draw on to rebuild that there is no comparison.

However you look at it, the situation we encounter in ME1 is absurd after only 33 years of interstellar expansion. It should have been closer to 300.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 30 mai 2010 - 10:14 .

[Vicious]

Clearly it is EA and their pro-human agenda at work.

But it gets worse: where did they find all those empty worlds?

This is easy because it's in the codex.

After we reactivated the relay we got linked to a bunch of systems and started colonizing. No one found them and colonized them first because thanks to the Rachni no one went around opening random relays anymore. Hence the whole first contact war.

That's all I feel like going into now. Go back to your 'Humanity/Bioware/EA sucks' hate speech.

Modifié par Vicious, 30 mai 2010 - 10:19 .

[Ieldra]

Vicious wrote...
Clearly it is EA and their pro-human agenda at work.

Since the situation was already present in ME1, and ME2 only put icing on the unpleasant-tasting cake: no.

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

Long periods of peace usually lead to very weak forms of military doctrine being kept.

Humans didn't had that "break" in conflicts, a thousand year of so peace....man, I hate to say it, but no military mind in the right mind would want that for his country....it just utterly destroyes your mindset. Not on the strategic level, but on the tactical level.

But is a game after all so.... made by humans at that ....and EA is behind it, so we can't expect alot of brain cells to be rubed together

Everyone makes it sound like the Citadel races have fallen into a peace time lull. There's never been peace in the history of the ME universe. The asari bartender on Ilium says herself that they can't go a single lifetime without a major war.

The Terminius systems have so many warlords, gangs, and war that there is no real body of stable government. There are slave raids into Council space, the Traverse is a ghetto, there's civil wars...rising AI...rachni and krogan wars within the last life time for krogan and asari.

The Council did have the biggest fleet in space but they're aware that it's not enough to stand up to a collective Terminius fleet. They use their military as a poltical tool first and foremost like any modern nation on earth. They have wars all the time.

The Council isn't the Old Republic. It just doesn't have the respect or resources to upkeep and protect the vast distances of their dominion.

hey I am just syaing what is mentioned on the codex. take a breath please .

A nation whose military arm is first and foremost a political tool, is doom to fail.

The recipe for success is to know how to use the elements of  war.

Wait I think mw2, has the best explanation I have ever seen in agame.

"it matters who has the biggest stick, but it matters a hell of a lot more who is swining it"

adding to that, most importantly, it matters most who has the guts to swing it, and to keep him/herself from swinging it.

Mindless swinging, and never swining it doesn't lead to alot.

But again we dont knw alot about the history to be making claims.

The Asari says "major" war... what is major, the codex says until first contact, there were nearly 1000 years of relative peace...relative peace means sporatic minor conflicts, sporadic conflicts aren't wars....well some can be but duno. So again, dont know enough about the history in those 1000 years before first contact to say alot.

I agree with that general Shepard so much...  INGENUITY, COMPETENCE, and MOTIVATION are very important

[FuturePasTimeCE]

Vicious wrote...

Clearly it is EA and their pro-human agenda at work.

at least they're not siding with "sovereign's" "destroy all life in the universe" agenda... the evil N A Z I santa klaus 

EA/Microsoft Gamestudios/BioWare... Pro-Humanity/Pro-Universalism.

Modifié par FuturePasTimeCE, 30 mai 2010 - 10:22 .

[lovgreno]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Isn't their skin just a thicker hide like skin? nothing special about it, besides that it diminishes or slows down radiation getting deeper down into the tissue.

Dont think tha puts pain down.... then again Garrus didn't seem to scream with his jaw broken off...a normal person with a broken jaw would still moan or scream/moan like crazy...so maybe it is pain resistant skin lol

Well that is Garrus Vakarian, who is basicaly the major badass in the galaxy.
And by the way the humans better hope that Garrus never gets bored with them. That would be the end of humanity.

But more seriously: A good story is more important than realism right? Would a story where humans are best at everything and their all powerfull all human army defeats the reapers be interesting? I don't think so. Wouldn't it be more fun with a story where humanity is forced to overcome cultural differences and cooperate with the aliens? I think so.

A all human council and fleet that are best at everything = Boring story.
A council and fleet where humanity and the other races have their own strenghts completing and strenghtening eachother = Interesting story.

But perhaps EA and BioWare thinks that would be a too complicated story to make us stupid concumers buy the games.

Modifié par lovgreno, 30 mai 2010 - 10:25 .

[Spartas Husky]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

Long periods of peace usually lead to very weak forms of military doctrine being kept.

Humans didn't had that "break" in conflicts, a thousand year of so peace....man, I hate to say it, but no military mind in the right mind would want that for his country....it just utterly destroyes your mindset. Not on the strategic level, but on the tactical level.

But is a game after all so.... made by humans at that ....and EA is behind it, so we can't expect alot of brain cells to be rubed together

Everyone makes it sound like the Citadel races have fallen into a peace time lull. There's never been peace in the history of the ME universe. The asari bartender on Ilium says herself that they can't go a single lifetime without a major war.

The Terminius systems have so many warlords, gangs, and war that there is no real body of stable government. There are slave raids into Council space, the Traverse is a ghetto, there's civil wars...rising AI...rachni and krogan wars within the last life time for krogan and asari.

The Council did have the biggest fleet in space but they're aware that it's not enough to stand up to a collective Terminius fleet. They use their military as a poltical tool first and foremost like any modern nation on earth. They have wars all the time.

The Council isn't the Old Republic. It just doesn't have the respect or resources to upkeep and protect the vast distances of their dominion.

hey I am just syaing what is mentioned on the codex. take a breath please .

A nation whose military arm is first and foremost a political tool, is doom to fail.

The recipe for success is to know how to use the elements of  war.

Wait I think mw2, has the best explanation I have ever seen in agame.

"it matters who has the biggest stick, but it matters a hell of a lot more who is swining it"

adding to that, most importantly, it matters most who has the guts to swing it, and to keep him/herself from swinging it.

Mindless swinging, and never swining it doesn't lead to alot.

But again we dont knw alot about the history to be making claims.

The Asari says "major" war... what is major, the codex says until first contact, there were nearly 1000 years of relative peace...relative peace means sporatic minor conflicts, sporadic conflicts aren't wars....well some can be but duno. So again, dont know enough about the history in those 1000 years before first contact to say alot.

I agree with that general Shepard so much...  INGENUITY, COMPETENCE, and MOTIVATION are very important

there u go, thank you for correcting me .

[armass]

Because the writers are humans.

In real life we can't even get ourselves out of recession let alone conquer a whole galaxy

Modifié par armass, 30 mai 2010 - 04:36 .

[searanox]

Nautica773 wrote...

Because players wouldn't like seeing their race being marginalized for three full games.

Ding ding ding!

[Relshar]

For this I quote a line from Delen out of Babalyon 5. " You humans stride amoungst the stars like giants."

Humans in Mass Effect and in RL are a diverse lot. In the game they live slightly longer than the Salarians, our strength in millitary comes from the fact we have fought amoungst ourselves throughout history and still do. It would be an inconceivable idea to a human nation not to have an millitary pressence within its borders. And so with this mind set we take to the stars. And with it our ability to fight.

[Highdragonslayer]

Because we can survive the zerg swarm

[Gweedotk]

Its still an overused and boring theme. There are plenty of games and books that make humans the superior or "leading" race. ME1 didn't do this *as much* and it could be more or less ignored. ME2 comes around and its implied in too many ways that humans are superior than all others.



I could bring common sense into this and point out that humans are no more "genetically diverse" than any other organism on Earth and its a little cocky to assume we would be in the universe as well. It contadicts itself in the game in fact by claiming humans are more genetically diverse even though the Vorcha adapt to any and all environments. There are several instances where the in-game science contradicts itself and several instances where it supports humans being "superior" (in-game).



I'm only disappointed that BioWare is going for the "humans save the galaxy" kind of theme. It's more interesting when humans being introduced to a huge galactic community and ultimately becoming apart of it, serving their role.



Do you guys really prefer human dominance?

[Zulu_DFA]

Gweedotk wrote...

Do you guys really prefer human dominance?

Short answer: yes.