305 réponses à ce sujet

[Mouton_Alpha]

Did anyone mention the population numbers? Human ones are quite pathetic, really - Terra Nova is supposed to be the most populous human colony and numbers about 4 milion people. That's like nothing. On the other hand, Ilium is "one of the youngest colonies, of the 7th wave of expansion" and numbers 80 milion.



Numbers don't count? Yeah, tell it to China.



Thus, any human advantage is temporary at best due to the other races having grown complacent and indecisive. If humanity ever really pisses off the big three, they would totally roflstomp it.

[Thatguy38]

Barquiel wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Because of the Humans Are Special trope. Linky.

this

The game is made by humans...for humans, that's all

Exactly! I'm sure the Turian version of Mass Effect has a turian spin, and I would LOVE to play the Krogan edition (which comes with a free pulse rifle). All sci-fi games are going to be human-centric, because we don't have any contact with any other alien civilizations, and no real evidence that any even exist, so humans will always be the most important race, until, or if ,we are proven otherwise.

[Dean_the_Young]

So, in the Krogan Version of Mass Effect, would Commander Shepard be a breeding option?

[Wolverfrog]

This is my favourite aspect of the Mass Effect universe. It's because we're determined, innovative, strong in number and ambitious. We're also impatient, discontent and we can be bastards at times.



The ending of Mass Effect 1, where the Alliance saved the day, was one of my favourite parts of the whole game. I also loved the way the human Ambassador in Revelations stood up to the Council.

[drak4806.2]

The reason the human race is so powerful is the fact we think outside the box.



The turians are to ridged to think outside the box.



Remember what that Asari bartender on Illium said. She basicly said that the Asari don't want to change and also its only when they reach their Matriarch stage do asari start involve themselves with politics.

[Mouton_Alpha]

drak4806.2 wrote...
The turians are to ridged to think outside the box.

And yet the ship that saved the galaxy was built partially using their tech.

Being militaristic and hierarchical does not necessarily kill progress and innovation.

=> Verner Von Braun.

[Gweedotk]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

Did anyone mention the population numbers? Human ones are quite pathetic, really - Terra Nova is supposed to be the most populous human colony and numbers about 4 milion people. That's like nothing. On the other hand, Ilium is "one of the youngest colonies, of the 7th wave of expansion" and numbers 80 milion.

Numbers don't count? Yeah, tell it to China.

Thus, any human advantage is temporary at best due to the other races having grown complacent and indecisive. If humanity ever really pisses off the big three, they would totally roflstomp it.

Yep this is true. Not only this but after reading both books, the "Human Diversity" claim is also completely temporary and not even an advantage.

Mass Effect: Ascension

It's like that with all races, Kahlee thought to herself. For some reason, humans just have more genetic diversity than the rest of the galaxy. She hadn't really noticed it before, not consciously, but here on the bridge of the Idenna it seemed to strike home.

It's happening to us, too, she realized as Hendel shook the Captain's hand. The big man's mix of Nordic and Indian ancestry was the norm on Earth now, and the inevitable genetic by-product was a more physically homogenous population. In the twenty-second century, blond hair like hers was a rarity, and naturally blue eyes were nonexistant.



For the entirety of the book, the "human-centric" viewpoint is associated with the book's antagonist in fact. Also, Mouton_Alpha is right. Not only is it pointed out several times that even the smallest economies of the alien's races are vastly larger than the Alliances. And from population alone, its simply impossible for humanity to take a "dominating" role in the galaxy, at least for long. And depending upon your choices in the game (saving the Rachni, strengthening the Geth, and saving the cure for the genophage), this blatant fact is only re-inforced. It can also be pointed out that the Turians saved the galaxy from being overrun by the Krogan (which managed to take on every single known species in the galaxy at the time and nearly win) and the Krogan themselves managed to save the galaxy from being destroyed by the reaper-influenced Rachni.

Also, lets remember what happened to the culturally uplifted Krogan. They were given technology far too early, and hailed as saviors of the Galaxy. They became the dominant species in the galaxy, the de facto leaders of society. Then they started to annex the colonies and worlds of the other species, resulting in a war even more brutal and catostraphic than the Rachni Wars. The end result: the near sterilization of the Krogan species and their fall from a proud and powerful nation to a people with no government and a dwindling population.

So, it can be assured that if humanity attempted to forcibly controll the galaxy after the Reaper threat is gone, humanity's fate would likely be similar, unless the other species were weakened or wiped out by the Reapers =/. In which case, we'd simply become the new Protheans.

This game focuses on Humanity's contribution to the galaxy, saving it from the Reapers. I must say BioWare has done an Excellent job in maintaining as little a human-centric viewpoint as possible, and I hope they keep up the good work. I pray that by no means, they end the story with a "humanity ownzz" scenario (unless the player so chooses from  previous choices in the previous two games).

Modifié par Gweedotk, 03 juin 2010 - 03:30 .

[chertan1982]

We iz hoomenz we iz the beztezt! The amount of ego stroking in this thread is just amazing.

Bioware just wanted a game that is appealing to the general gamer

[InvaderErl]

I've always found the insanely fast rise to power that humans in this series experienced (militarily, politically and culturally) to be its biggest face palm. If they had perhaps provided humans with a century or two of solo expansion to grow it would make more sense but that they in less than HALF a century were able to go from being stuck in our solar system to being able to take the Turians head on is beyond stupid.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 03 juin 2010 - 06:32 .

[Sajuro]

Simple, we have spiral energy

[lovgreno]

Humans are best at everything, that is an easy way to make a story and sell it to insecure human players I suppose.

[MerrickShep]

Himmelstor wrote...

Humans have large fleet, close to
Citadel. Saved day, became heroes, new on Council. Early on have much
political clout. Besides, many C-Sec aliens died, needed replacements,
used humans.

TeaCokeProphet wrote...

Invalid. Other species around for much longer. Human dominance unlikely, no matter the heroics. Bioware = xenophobic.

Lol when I read what you guys said It reminded me of how mordin would say it.

[Nizzemancer]

Shandepared wrote...

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

And yet the ship that saved the galaxy was built partially using their tech.

I doubt the revolutionary tech was their's for three reasons:

1.) They wouldn't share it

2.) They don't own the Normandy

3.) It doesn't fit their military doctrine

And what made people think the normandy was critical to taking out sovereign? Joker was the first to hit it when it's barriers where down that's all, it's a frigate and it's not built for a straight up fight. The real advantage was suprise and tactical manouvers in the alliance favor.

[Ieldra]

InvaderErl wrote...
I've always found the insanely fast rise to power that humans in this series experienced (militarily, politically and culturally) to be its biggest face palm. If they had perhaps provided humans with a century or two of solo expansion to grow it would make more sense but that they in less than HALF a century were able to go from being stuck in our solar system to being able to take the Turians head on is beyond stupid.

Very much so! It bears repeating.

[Gweedotk]

I remember somebody saying that this game is simply trying to appeal to most gamers, maximizing profit. Gameplay differences aside; Starcraft one of the most popular RTS games ever, also has nearly all the "good guys" or protagonists practically losing to the "antagonists" (the Zerg). Now we all know that Starcraft is a pretty famous game, and gameplay definitely played a bigger part in its success, but I'm pretty sure the not-so-mainstream plot played a pretty big part too.

MassEffect is a pretty kick-ass game, but if they keep playing humanity up to be this awesome race thats better than everything, it sounds like from posts on this thread that it'll put off quite a few people, myself included. It'll make the difference between an okay game and something everyone on the street will know by name (like Halo). Even though my huge rant way above was defending BioWare and so far they've don'e an decent job, it could still be wayyy better. And I mean WAAAAYYYY better, enough to make a huge difference in profits I'll tell ya that.

Still lots of hints of "humans are better than everyone else" *cough* carriers *cough*. Now I know somebody is going to come along and say 'Starcraft is an RTS, big difference'. That may be so, however the plot is extremely different than most games of the time, and something a little new (or different) is always appreciated by the general gaming community (humans owning is not new or different).

I'm only hoping the Dev's consider this if they weren't already, this is the only video game worth playing so far (at least imo), I'm hoping it stays that way. I've ranted enough times on this thread, I'd hope SOMEBODY will have picked up on what is being said here... And for god's sake BioWare, don't let EA rush you guys into making a crappy game! 2011 seems a little early for release, take your time with this one and make sure its perfect!

Modifié par Gweedotk, 06 juin 2010 - 08:18 .

[Sharn01]

Ieldra2 wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...
I've always found the insanely fast rise to power that humans in this series experienced (militarily, politically and culturally) to be its biggest face palm. If they had perhaps provided humans with a century or two of solo expansion to grow it would make more sense but that they in less than HALF a century were able to go from being stuck in our solar system to being able to take the Turians head on is beyond stupid.

Very much so! It bears repeating.

[Spartas Husky]

Mouton_Alpha wrote...

Did anyone mention the population numbers? Human ones are quite pathetic, really - Terra Nova is supposed to be the most populous human colony and numbers about 4 milion people. That's like nothing. On the other hand, Ilium is "one of the youngest colonies, of the 7th wave of expansion" and numbers 80 milion.

Numbers don't count? Yeah, tell it to China.

Thus, any human advantage is temporary at best due to the other races having grown complacent and indecisive. If humanity ever really pisses off the big three, they would totally roflstomp it.

only reasons why countries with high populations and cheap labor are propsering is only due to the inability of other countries to stream line production purposes.

For example.

my uncle in south america has an industry creating plastic molds for all purposes, it used to be importing the products.

With some careful, and very agressive....barganing with unions, a simple conclusionw as made:

China has cheap labor force, but there is no chinese worker cheap enough to replace a heavily industrialize assembly line.

So workers were told: We are going to mechanize 93% of the jobs, period, you have 2 choices. Learn to repair the new machines, and take a standardize test. Out of all 600ish of you, 120 will be kept as engineers.

If you dont like it, leave we'll get engineers else where, but we are not putting up with more bs.


Alliance is heavily industrialize.......unlike council held worlds, I dont get why Salarians, asari...still have miners as individuals instead of robo miners....very very weird, very inefficient.

For example. Picture the few US companies that have swept its  Chinese competitors....their trick? go back to small business practice. No bonuses, set salaris for management and technicians, but every job from security to storage was replaced in the mayority by machines.

Higher population is ...not always good , because you require a lot of jobs and resources to maintain the given population, but no matter how cheap the worker is, a machine can do its job 100 times better and faster.

I still dont get why....in mass effect universe there are still miners.....the Hanar only use robo miners....dont get why other species dont just use robo miners.

[lovgreno]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Alliance is heavily industrialize.......unlike council held worlds, I dont get why Salarians, asari...still have miners as individuals instead of robo miners....very very weird, very inefficient.

That doesn't add up. Council races have vastly bigger economies than the Alliance (even the elcor are financialy stronger than the humans). They have also maintained bigger fleets than the Alliance for centuries. So they must have huge advanced industries somewhere. Krogans and vorcha are often used for labors like mining. Perhaps they are effective enough for someone ruthless enough?

[Spartas Husky]

lovgreno wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

Alliance is heavily industrialize.......unlike council held worlds, I dont get why Salarians, asari...still have miners as individuals instead of robo miners....very very weird, very inefficient.

That doesn't add up. Council races have vastly bigger economies than the Alliance (even the elcor are financialy stronger than the humans). They have also maintained bigger fleets than the Alliance for centuries. So they must have huge advanced industries somewhere. Krogans and vorcha are often used for labors like mining. Perhaps they are effective enough for someone ruthless enough?

US is more industrialize, than China.....US has more technology than china....US has the resources to heavily out pace China in a tech race on the production level...yet we dont.


Vise Versa, China has the resources to just switch to tech, they could just produce crude machines to stream line the process and save themselves alot of money.

WHy dont they do it.

US:
A. We still have this hell bent attitude of the post ww2 ideal of american power, which is to produce.
B. US still has this hell bent idea that we are sitll in the industrial age, we are in the information age, where machines are better at working, but US has been able to get off it.

Unfortunately that has a backfire effect, which nobody knows how to deal with, firing everyone and hiring only qualified engineers and technicians would create a .....studying "bubble"??? where over night huge amounts of unskilled workers ecome bachelor certified or what not. Still machines replaced most, so you dont need 100 technicians, you only may need 20-30. What happens to the other 70?
C. Unions will never agree to it, it would mean raising the pay for 20 % of their worker force by 3 times their normal pay, but firing the other 80%. You only need technicians, who can repair the machines and engineers constantly at work to try to make new ones. You dont need unskilled guy who has only high school degree putting a screw on a damn car, is inefficient and painful to look at.
D. at the same time you can't trust comapnies to just fire 99% of workers, and keep just a handful of technicians and tell them to repair what they have to or get fired. because of the huge pool of unemployed heavily qualified workers.

China:
A. Their foundations are based on disinformation, knowledge outside the military or high government is detrimental to progress. Is true, that is called "why follow him when I can do better?"

B.....yeah their population doesn't help at all.


In conclusion, I think Mass Effect is the wet dream or a corporate owner today.

The alliance just became a big dog at the table, but it has a disadvantage turn into an advantage:

A. The Council has been for A LONNNNNG time meaning their population is so damn huge, they need manufacturing jobs...otherwise would create chaos, so they had to revert back to more inneficient form of production which is skilled manufacturers, but skilled manufacturers are not profitable outside hand crafted slowly processed quality items. ON a Mass production scale skilled manufacturers aren't good business sense.

Example: Reason why Companies outsource jobs instead of just mehanizing the process here in the US. Unions would not allow it, and is to expensive to mechanize industries overseas, so they hire central asian workers for very cheap.

B. Being newbies at the stage, humanity has a double edge sword. It has a VERY SMALL population, compared to other species, is like a flea. But that is also its strength due to having such a small population, and needing every single person willing to risk colonization to conquer new territory, manufacturing jobs most likely were overnight replaced by machines.

--------

A. Citadel races have such a big population that they have more than enough for colonization AND for production jobs...thus heavily limiting fully mechanized industries.

Example: Hearing news of Unions....and miners maybe being replaced by robo miners....

B. Alliance news? do we hear of Unions often?
Example: Hahne-Kedar.. mech facilities. From what we hear, Council races have workers doing part of those jobs....you saw anyone besides...a handful....and handful meaning less than 5 for the entire facility.



In both.....very good way, and VERY bad way, Mass Effect is a companies wet dream.

handful of workers, all getting paid huge amounts of money, from lowly technician, to CEO....but at the cost of a huge amount of people being unemployed. That is the Council races problems...

Now....if there is no "huge" amount of people unemployed, that are instead being paid to colonize.....is a win win. Of Course that is a bubble all on its own.
All those people now being skilled manufactures ares farmers being paid to colonize...but what happens when colonies go scarce? or when the innitial colonization boom fades?

We hear proof ot his in Illium from the Volus shot selling its stocks on colonies, knowing soon the colonization boom will wear off.

[lovgreno]

Good points, Spartas Husky. If it wasn't for the stabilising factors of the turian fleet and more importantly the long lived, intelligent and diplomaticaly skilled asari people like the volus would mess up things fast in the galaxy. No wonder the asari are the real bosses in the galaxy.



The situation in US and China is more frail than you might think. Both have troubles from being big basicaly. If the chinese starts spending all their dollars in bigger amounts the dollar will sink like a stone... So yeah, there are financial bubbles everywhere. I'm glad I have invested in forest considering how bad things might become.



But the human Alliance and it's economy is basicaly nothing but a bubble. No real stability to talk about. Traders and voters love stability. But stability is what the Council races, especialy asari, have. The human might be a good short time investment financialy, military and politicaly but their strenght is very, very fragile bubble. The aliens will not take any risks there but make sure the salarians and asari learn about human strenghts.



If I was a human in ME I would invest in turians and wait a century or two before taking risks with the vunerable humans.



With things like omni tools and omni-gel there should be very little need for heavy industry as we know it. Another advantage for the technicaly advanced asari and salarians who have many skilled users of omni tools.

[Spartas Husky]

lovgreno wrote...

Good points, Spartas Husky. If it wasn't for the stabilising factors of the turian fleet and more importantly the long lived, intelligent and diplomaticaly skilled asari people like the volus would mess up things fast in the galaxy. No wonder the asari are the real bosses in the galaxy.

The situation in US and China is more frail than you might think. Both have troubles from being big basicaly. If the chinese starts spending all their dollars in bigger amounts the dollar will sink like a stone... So yeah, there are financial bubbles everywhere. I'm glad I have invested in forest considering how bad things might become.

But the human Alliance and it's economy is basicaly nothing but a bubble. No real stability to talk about. Traders and voters love stability. But stability is what the Council races, especialy asari, have. The human might be a good short time investment financialy, military and politicaly but their strenght is very, very fragile bubble. The aliens will not take any risks there but make sure the salarians and asari learn about human strenghts.

If I was a human in ME I would invest in turians and wait a century or two before taking risks with the vunerable humans.

With things like omni tools and omni-gel there should be very little need for heavy industry as we know it. Another advantage for the technicaly advanced asari and salarians who have many skilled users of omni tools.

true. But there are two types of bubbles, empty and stable.

The EMpty, is like the credit bubble we just faced, or the investment bubble of that volus colony that had a very hard economic time ...forgot the name of the planet.

Do not know since there is not alot of info, but a colonization bubble for me would be a stable bubble, is fueled by the need for territory nothing more, and on top of that later on comes, investment bbubles, manufacturing, military, and ending with commodities. So...if I had money to spend, I would invest on Alliance. They have only begun to form the bubble, and even if it pops, is not a big deal because there is just so much they still got left to do.

Between China and US, m3h.

But for things...god I was so glad when Obama became president....so many stocks went down, I got em for so cheap....greatest day since I bought silver back in 05.....I love this president lol

[JaegerBane]

Naltair wrote...

It seems implied that humans are just awesome, we seem to have the greatest genetic diversity, high tenacity, and quite ambitious as a species. We are not really the best at anything but we seem to be good at everything. In Mass Effect anyways.

Succinct put. Humans's greatest advantage is the fact that they're not bad at anything. In a galaxy where 1000 year old Turbo lizards end up shooting blanks and invincible god-machines are defeated by what is effectively a locked door and the key is inside, having no weaknesses is reason for awesomeness.

[lovgreno]

Spartas Husky wrote...
true. But there are two types of bubbles, empty and stable.

The EMpty, is like the credit bubble we just faced, or the investment bubble of that volus colony that had a very hard economic time ...forgot the name of the planet.

Do not know since there is not alot of info, but a colonization bubble for me would be a stable bubble, is fueled by the need for territory nothing more, and on top of that later on comes, investment bbubles, manufacturing, military, and ending with commodities. So...if I had money to spend, I would invest on Alliance. They have only begun to form the bubble, and even if it pops, is not a big deal because there is just so much they still got left to do.

Between China and US, m3h.

But for things...god I was so glad when Obama became president....so many stocks went down, I got em for so cheap....greatest day since I bought silver back in 05.....I love this president lol

The thing is you don't know what bubbles are stable untill they break. In trade we waste at least half of all resources on nothing. Sadly we don't know what was a good investment untill it is too late. If we say that we can give you  fast profit we are almost always lying.

Obviously the Alliance cannot defend their colonies. They don't have any other choice than the "wild west" systems. But yeah, spreading some minor money around the bigger colonies could be a good option for a higher risk investment.

It's funny that so many people still think that Democrats are bad for buisness... It's realy basicaly the same...

Modifié par lovgreno, 06 juin 2010 - 09:50 .

[Spartas Husky]

true. Is hard to tell which bubble it is. Usually is a risk, since books can be cleaned, or altered in any number of ways.



Empty bubbles are very easy to spot, they usually involve no tangible backup of assets... credit bubble of the 90s? or 80s? was it. Whicever. Housing bubble, seemed stable but hell I wasn't the onlymistake one.



Either way true...I was so happy with Obama love running rampant...never saw stocks plumet so fast....if only I had not invested elsewhere, I could have retired at 21.....sigh missed chance lol