207 réponses à ce sujet

[ShadyKat]

Anyone that thinks he is good, is a fool. Make no mistake he will stab you in the back the second the Reapers are beaten.

[mcvxiii]

TIM is a long the lines of a moral nihilist. His mores and ethics are guided by the ends justifying the means, everthing is moral and ethical providing one gets the results they want. Despite his platitudes about humanity and advancing humanity place within the intergalatic community I personally think he is talking bollocks. TIM is a galatic dictator in waiting.

[Myrmedus]

Selfish good guy.



Pretty much agree with mcvxiii

[Freestorm Skinn]

He's a bad guy who thinks he's the hero.

He's completely ruthless and calculating, willing to use and sacrifice anyone and anything to achieve his goals, which is to be at the head of a Humanity that rules over the galaxy.

Read the second novel ASCENSION and the blurb for the upcoming novel RETRIBUTION. He's also spiteful and petty enough to exact revenge on anyone that crosses him, and he's willing to wait for the moment where it would hurt his target most.

[Gabey5]

as a renegade...im really feeling the illsuive man....he brought you back...saving colonies...only one who gives a damn about the reapers...gives us resources....

[Daralii]

As soon as I heard him say "Cerberus IS humanity!" my mind immediately flashed to Palpatine in Revenge of the Sith; assuming the reapers are defeated, I can easily see him using the Collector base to conquer the galaxy.



He's at best a megalomaniac, at worst a psychopath with far too much power.

[spm1138]

He's an amoral and far too fond of power.
Even if he was basically a good guy (which the verdict is very much out on. For all I know he is a stooge for another faction just as bad as the reapers. Why is he "illusive"?) nobody would be trustworthy with as much power as he wants.

Him wanting the reaper factory was the last straw for me.
He's recruited me to go and stop human colonists being abducted which is bad. You find out it's a reaper factory which is even worse.
TIM then decides he wants it.
Lets face it, Cerberus would carry on doing basically the same thing as the collectors. That being the case what is the point of you being sent on a mission in the first place?

Modifié par spm1138, 07 février 2010 - 01:50 .

[Myrmedus]

DJStarstryker wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

He's a bad guy with good motives.

I wouldn't say that. I think he's just ruthless. He'll do whatever it takes to accomplish his goals. He says his goal is to help humanity, but that's all we know. What is his definition of helping humanity? If whatever he's planning succeeds, where does he see humanity ending up? That's the thing I want to know.

That's called a bad guy with good motives

Anyway I'm sure he's already thinking beyond humanity's success in this war...especially considering his expression at the end of ME2 if you give Cerberus the Collector Base.

[ShadyKat]

Gabey5 wrote...

as a renegade...im really feeling the illsuive man....he brought you back...saving colonies...only one who gives a damn about the reapers...gives us resources....

He brings you back to help him achive his goals,  and those goals are getting him Reaper technolgy. I doubt he gave a damn about the thousands of people turned in to human milk shakes. He just wanted that Reaper factory.

[mcvxiii]

Myrmedus wrote...

Selfish good guy.

Pretty much agree with mcvxiii

Thanks but I don't agree with you about him being a selfish good guy. There is nothing about TIM that I see as making him a good guy.

[Kerilus]

Good motives? He's not only entitling himself to humanity, he also entitles himself above humanity. With his twisted vision, he's willing to harm humanity itself.

[Myrmedus]

mcvxiii wrote...

Myrmedus wrote...

Selfish good guy.

Pretty much agree with mcvxiii

Thanks but I don't agree with you about him being a selfish good guy. There is nothing about TIM that I see as making him a good guy.

I think he's 'good' in the sense that he wants to stop the Reapers...I suppose I'm talking from an RPG character standpoint here rather than real-life sense. Bad RPG characters want to destroy the world (and Agent Smith too!) which he doesn't want .

[fortunesque]

He reminds me of the type that would eventually become a dictator. He's charismatic, rich, and knows many people in different places. The most telltale characteristic is his ambition.



At the end of the game, he wants you to save the base, not just so it can be used against the reapers, but also so it can ultimately establish humans as the dominant force in the galaxy. He wants everything to be done his way.



TIM's motives are clear enough: he wants to establish a galactic government with humans taking the priority, and with Cerberus spearheading the movement. Ultimately, this would establish him as *the* ruler of the galaxy.

[zakobon]

I gave TIM the base. I'm looking forward to getting my Star Destroyer in ME3.

[Mallissin]

zakobon wrote...

I gave TIM the base. I'm looking forward to getting my Star Destroyer in ME3.

Yah, Normandy SR1 was shot down and you got a ship twice as big. Makes me want to get shot down again to get a cruiser from TIM.

[Myrmedus]

I gave him and base. I'm going to have to stop him in ME3.

[toezz]

Thornquist wrote...

The game really do set him up to be a bad guy. The whole man in black suit, cigar and that dying star in the background.

However ask yourselves what is worst? Illusive man or the Reapers.
I think many people gives him the middle finger because they know things will eventually turn out right, whatever they choose, humanity and the other races will prevail against the Reapers - because they know its a story, and most stories have happy endings.

But the cold hard facts are that Reapers have probably 99% of the odds with them.

Im playing this the desperate way, because that is the most realistic. I would ally with every mercenary group out there, every flesh eating monster - everyone. Because the odds are so overwhelming against us.
The Illusive Mans agendas and ethics are nitpicking in the grander scheme of things. We need every ally we can possible get.

Agreed! 

Dough he migth stab you in the back in the end, all in all this is a figth for survival of all species.
And every asset agains the reapers are very well appreciated,but i think that atleast one of the "good" guys from the previous games will turn it`s back on you, or get persuaded by the reapers to figth for their cause.
And atleast one of the so called "bad guys" will prove itself more worthfull than you`d think in the previous games.

To my knowledge, there hasn`t been any twists sourrounding this matter in ME1-2 (except Legion/Geth which i don`t really trust yet), we only been meet with an enemy outside our knowledge (Collectors in ME2) in ME1-2, i hope there will be some major twists in ME3 regarding this.. hope to get a similar suprise like when i saw a geth sniping husks to save me in ME3, that was an epic "WHAT THE???" moment..

[Caz Neerg]

If the options were put TIM in charge, or put Shepard in charge, I would put Shepard in charge. If the options were TIM vs. ME1 Council, I'd have to go with TIM, because the Council is useless and anti-human. If the options were TIM vs. Udina, I'd have to go with TIM because Udina is a spineless political hack. If the options were TIM vs. Anderson, I'd have to go with TIM because Anderson is politically incompetent.



Ultimately, it doesn't matter if he is a "good" guy or a "bad" guy, because unless they introduce some new options in ME3, he is the *only* guy with the brains and vision to help Shepard stop the Reapers and put the galaxy back together again after they are gone.

[GotchaNL]

TIM is without a doubt a bad guy. If he had his way, humankind would dominate the entire Milky Way.

This could be good for us humans I guess, but it's a bloody selfish and racist thing towards other species.



There's also the chance that he'd just make Cerberus strong instead of humankind, and if that'd happen we'd be in trouble for sure.



No, I am very glad the collector base is blown to smithereens. I'll hopefully have the Ragni (sp?), Geth (including the reprogrammed ones) and other alien species at my disposal in ME3. That should be enough. I hope....

[Crimson Shame]

I beat the game for the second time today and blew up the base. I saved it first time around. The differences in his response is VERY revealing. He brought Shepard back for the sole purpose of getting that base for himself, so that he could... I don't know, dominate the galaxy, sell parts of it for trillions, whatever he wants pretty much. He's a douche.



If Martin Sheen didn't do his voice, hardly anyone would like him.

[lodevolution]

I think he's a good guy you have to keep your eye on. Just like grunt said "offer one hand and arm the the other". Apparently Grunt knows how to take it to the deep end!

Modifié par lodevolution, 07 février 2010 - 02:25 .

[Freestorm Skinn]

How can anyone think he's a good guy when he actively sanctions the murders of people who are out to expose the existence of Cerberus?



Remember Admiral Kohaku and his men deliberately lured into a death-trap just so Cerberus could study how they were killed? Or what was done to Jack and the other kids? Nothing goes on in Cerberus with his personal approval.

[smudgedhorizon]

Depends on your perspective. A lot of his goals are positive things, but the ruthless way he goes about attaining them is inexcusable. The ends do NOT justify the means. Prime example: Hitler's goals/ideals for the German people were positive - his methods? Disgusting. You can't hope to build a better world on an unjust foundation, it won't hold. It's people with ethics like his that make this world such a scary place.

So from my perspective - bad guy, I don't deal in grey areas.

Modifié par smudgedhorizon, 07 février 2010 - 02:25 .

[mcvxiii]

Myrmedus wrote...
I think he's 'good' in the sense that he wants to stop the Reapers...I suppose I'm talking from an RPG character standpoint here rather than real-life sense. Bad RPG characters want to destroy the world (and Agent Smith too!) which he doesn't want .

Fair enough.

Caz Neerg wrote...

If the options were put TIM in charge, or put Shepard in charge, I would put Shepard in charge. If the options were TIM vs. ME1 Council, I'd have to go with TIM, because the Council is useless and anti-human. If the options were TIM vs. Udina, I'd have to go with TIM because Udina is a spineless political hack. If the options were TIM vs. Anderson, I'd have to go with TIM because Anderson is politically incompetent.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter if he is a "good" guy or a "bad" guy, because unless they introduce some new options in ME3, he is the *only* guy with the brains and vision to help Shepard stop the Reapers and put the galaxy back together again after they are gone.

Alright but at at what cost? Battle one oppressive group and win only to be subjugated by another oppressive group. The Reapers and Cerberus share a variety of similarities. 

[Caz Neerg]

mcvxiii wrote...

Caz Neerg wrote...

If the options were put TIM in charge, or put Shepard in charge, I would put Shepard in charge. If the options were TIM vs. ME1 Council, I'd have to go with TIM, because the Council is useless and anti-human. If the options were TIM vs. Udina, I'd have to go with TIM because Udina is a spineless political hack. If the options were TIM vs. Anderson, I'd have to go with TIM because Anderson is politically incompetent.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter if he is a "good" guy or a "bad" guy, because unless they introduce some new options in ME3, he is the *only* guy with the brains and vision to help Shepard stop the Reapers and put the galaxy back together again after they are gone.

Alright but at at what cost? Battle one oppressive group and win only to be subjugated by another oppressive group. The Reapers and Cerberus share a variety of similarities. 

That is quite an exaggeration.  It might be reasonable to assume that the Illusive Man wants to rule the galaxy.  Wanting to rule the galaxy, and wanting to exterminate all sentient life in the galaxy, are in no way similar goals.  TIM kills when necessary to further his goals, but the killing is not an end in and of itself.  If Kahoku had minded his own business, he would still be alive.  And we have no evidence that TIM would be particularly oppressive as a ruler.  He gives a large degree of autonomy to people who are loyal to him, and explicitly refused to put a control chip in Shepard. 

He is almost certainly a narcissist who thinks he is the most important person in the galaxy, and that he should rule, but we don't have any real evidence that would indicate he would actually be a bad ruler.  Most of the "bad" actions attributed to Cerberus were experiments designed to find ways to develop weapons and defenses against threats to humanity.  If humanity wins dominance of the galaxy, the need for such experiments could be substantially reduced.