97 réponses à ce sujet

[darth_lopez]

TeaCokeProphet wrote...

It seems that every important spacefaring race is humanoid, with two legs, two arms, eyes, a mouth, some kind of ears...the likelihood of convergent evolution occuring at this scale is...unlikely, to say the least. It's a sci-fi cliche, and making a bunch of aliens as different from us as the hanar is annoyingly difficult to do, but everytime I think about everything in the galaxy being all too similar throws me out of immersion with the game. Not really complaining, just making an observation.

while yes all the species are humanoid, wait jellies, while most species are humanoid what else can you expect from humans? we made fictional things similar to us not suprising. the Thorian a sentient plant and we have jellies

but those are only 2 known species, one is dead i hope, that aren't humanoid. There very well may be more non-humanoid organisms, and if you listen to the bachelor party in the bar on illium and really think about it perhaps the asari have no physical appearance aside from what they want us to see as attractive. as there is no reason a Salarian should Find something of the same human shape attractive. their really isn't especially when they don't have sex drives like other species do.

[SunfighterG8]

Kerberus88 wrote...

Name one other species on earth that is advanced as us. Can't? Not bipedal and no digits.

leafcutter ants!

[WarmachineX0]

GraciousCat wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

T1l wrote...

WarmachineX0 wrote...

Protheans havn't physically changed, I belive. If you do the N7 mission and shepard touches the becon, the vison returns from ME1, the final sceen of an alien dieing comes into focus, you see that that the Pothean looks exactly like a collector.

That's a very interesting point, and you're correct. I wonder, then, why the sculptures on Ilos were distinctly humanoid in appearance, rather than insectoid. Also; the architecture of Ilos in no way resembled the Collector Ship, aside possibly the life support systems. The Collectors seem to create hives, where as Ilos seems to have distinct structures; buildings.

Retconning?

Yes, it's clearly a retcon. Still, it could make sense in-universe if the Prothean to Collector genetic tampering occured in the centuries between the Reaper invasion and the Ilos facility waking up.

I thought that vision just meant that the Protheans had been turned into the Collectors, not that they necessarily resembled them from the start, though that is where they ended up eventually

well, Mordin comments that evolution and culture became stagnit after the Prothean indoctunation. They are  just clones (so real evotultion isn't possible) of the incoturnated Protheans, with all major organs replaced with cybernetics.

[SunfighterG8]

I thought the new vision implied that the collectors were around during the prothean age too. it would explain the sheer amount of ancient ship debris around that station. The reapers just found something intresting geneticly with the protheans and added that gene to their pets. Thats what I took from it.

[WarmachineX0]

SunfighterG8 wrote...

I thought the new vision implied that the collectors were around during the prothean age too. it would explain the sheer amount of ancient ship debris around that station. The reapers just found something intresting geneticly with the protheans and added that gene to their pets. Thats what I took from it.

No, Mordin actually says the Protheans and Collectors are the same. Its even imlied in the game that the Keepers were a simular race that underwent the same fate.

[The_mango55]

WarmachineX0 wrote...

SunfighterG8 wrote...

I thought the new vision implied that the collectors were around during the prothean age too. it would explain the sheer amount of ancient ship debris around that station. The reapers just found something intresting geneticly with the protheans and added that gene to their pets. Thats what I took from it.

No, Mordin actually says the Protheans and Collectors are the same. Its even imlied in the game that the Keepers were a simular race that underwent the same fate.

That doesn't mean that the protheans were the original collectors. It's clear that the collectors have been around for millions of years, when you see how many ships are scattered around the base.

[WarmachineX0]

The_mango55 wrote...

WarmachineX0 wrote...

SunfighterG8 wrote...

I thought the new vision implied that the collectors were around during the prothean age too. it would explain the sheer amount of ancient ship debris around that station. The reapers just found something intresting geneticly with the protheans and added that gene to their pets. Thats what I took from it.

No, Mordin actually says the Protheans and Collectors are the same. Its even imlied in the game that the Keepers were a simular race that underwent the same fate.

That doesn't mean that the protheans were the original collectors. It's clear that the collectors have been around for millions of years, when you see how many ships are scattered around the base.

It doesn't say that the collectors have been around for millions of years, just the the Omga 4 relay has. The other side of the relay and the relay itself is dangerous regaurdless of the life forms on the other side. The only way to safetly pass through the relay is with a reaper IFF, in all likely hood, the receciving relay will just destroy what ever comes through, leaving debis all over the place. Its also quite possible that Souvergn rested on the other side of the relay.

Not to discount that their were collectors before Prothean collector, just that the collectoers in ME2 are Protheans. Its quite possible that the reapers used other races as collectors, and just wipped them out after another race was found to be more useful, or the current collectors have become to worn out. 

Modifié par WarmachineX0, 06 février 2010 - 11:13 .

[Phinub]

The collectors don't look like protheans, if you've paid some attention while playing the game you'd know that the collector's are protheans who's dna is extensively rewritten to serve the reapers needs to the point that apparently only one dna strand is recognisable. I also suggest you look at the codex where there is a picture of a prothean (or prothean husk).
I'm guessing that collectors were created during the centuries that the protheans were wiped out, and thus are part of their warning message.

Modifié par Phinub, 06 février 2010 - 11:15 .

[T1l]

Phinub wrote...

The collectors don't look like protheans, if you've paid some attention while playing the game you'd know that the collector's are protheans who's dna is extensively rewritten to serve the reapers needs to the point that apparently only one dna strand is recognisable. I also suggest you look at the codex where there is a picture of a prothean (or prothean husk).
I'm guessing that collectors were created during the centuries that the protheans were wiped out, and thus are part of their warning message.

We went through this on page 2. This is what I thought, but as someone pointed out, there is a vision from a Prothean ruin on Joab which clearly shows a Prothean as a Collector - not a hybrid, not partially changed; simply, a Collector.

If the Protheans were changed from Illithid-esque humanoids in to the mindless insectoid Collectors, losing all culture in the indoctrination process, why would they still have Prothean beacon technology and why would they still use it to record information?

It doesn't make any sense, hence why I came to the retconning conclusion.

Even the Wiki states:

Mass Effect Wiki...

The beacon flashback and statues on Ilos show that the Protheans were humanoid in appearance, but with extremely long tentacle-like fingers, toes and 'beards'. The architecture on Feros and Ilos shows they were able to build and maintain enormous cities and arcologies. However, given the fact that the Protheans were victims of the Reapers' trap, using their technology without knowing they would eventually be harvested as a result, a lot of Prothean architecture seems to have  been influenced by structures like the Citadel, blurring the line between what the Protheans built and what they found.

It has been speculated that the Protheans may have had some influence on Earth throughout human history, particularly ancient Egypt. Evidence to support this includes the pyramid containment units found scattered on many planets that bear an unmistakable likeness to the ones found in Giza, despite the fact that the Protheans were destroyed tens of thousands of years before these structures were built.

So, the Protheans it would appear have been retconned in to insects rather than the Reapers genetically changing them that way. Yes, the Reapers genetically modified them and added cybernetics - but how they appear is how they have always appeared.

Modifié par T1l, 06 février 2010 - 11:30 .

[WarmachineX0]

Phinub wrote...

The collectors don't look like protheans, if you've paid some attention while playing the game you'd know that the collector's are protheans who's dna is extensively rewritten to serve the reapers needs to the point that apparently only one dna strand is recognisable. I also suggest you look at the codex where there is a picture of a prothean (or prothean husk).
I'm guessing that collectors were created during the centuries that the protheans were wiped out, and thus are part of their warning message.

Thats not necicerily a prothean husk, you get the codex entry for protheans early, it would ruin the suprise twist if the picture was of a collector. It looks more like that statues found on Illos. I think it was Mordin as well that said a collector was akin to a husk. But, the N7 mission has it pretty clear, a city falling and a clear image of a Prothean/Collector dieing. Beside, what need would a reaper have with changing the appeariance?

T1l wrote...
If the Protheans were changed from Illithid-esque humanoids in to the mindless insectoid Collectors, losing all culture in the indoctrination process, why would they still have Prothean beacon technology and why would they still use it to record information?

It doesn't make any sense, hence why I came to the retconning conclusion.

Pretty much an attempt to not ruining the twist early. And a damn good twist it was.

Modifié par WarmachineX0, 06 février 2010 - 11:31 .

[Feops1]

It's possible that, as the Mass Effect universe goes, that the most efficient route for a species to dominate is to have many human-like (or turian-like ,asari-like, etc) traits. Most of the races that LACK these common traits seem to be at a disadvantage in the galactic community, if only for not being as well adapted to work with the majority.



One exception is the Rachni, who seemed to develop a very different set of senses, mobility, social structure, etc., and thrive. Granted they were wiped out (or almost wiped out) by recent events but that somewhat beside the point.

[Phinub]

WarmachineX0 wrote...

Phinub wrote...

The collectors don't look like protheans, if you've paid some attention while playing the game you'd know that the collector's are protheans who's dna is extensively rewritten to serve the reapers needs to the point that apparently only one dna strand is recognisable. I also suggest you look at the codex where there is a picture of a prothean (or prothean husk).
I'm guessing that collectors were created during the centuries that the protheans were wiped out, and thus are part of their warning message.

Thats not necicerily a prothean husk, you get the codex entry for protheans early, it would ruin the suprise twist if the picture was of a collector. It looks more like that statues found on Illos. I think it was Mordin as well that said a collector was akin to a husk. But, the N7 mission has it pretty clear, a city falling and a clear image of a Prothean/Collector dieing. Beside, what need would a reaper have with changing the appeariance?

T1l wrote...
If the Protheans were changed from Illithid-esque humanoids in to the mindless insectoid Collectors, losing all culture in the indoctrination process, why would they still have Prothean beacon technology and why would they still use it to record information?

It doesn't make any sense, hence why I came to the retconning conclusion.

Pretty much an attempt to not ruining the twist early. And a damn good twist it was.

Feeding us false prothean pictures to cover up they look like collectors makes no sense, they could just not give it a picture. I have also seen the vision you speak of and it also features the protheans with the tentacle beards.
As for why the reapers would change their appearance, i don't know. Why do the reapers do anything? All i know is that they engineered the keepers to suit their needs and re-engeneered the protheans. Maybe they're just completely rewritten so they're easily controlled by harbinger.

[mdp310]

I think that the Reapers re-wrote the Protheans to fit their needs, and in the changed appearance was a side-effect of that. Notice they don't seem to have a mouth. "No digestive system, replaced by tech!"

[AoiDreamer]

mdp310 wrote...

I think that the Reapers re-wrote the Protheans to fit their needs, and in the changed appearance was a side-effect of that. Notice they don't seem to have a mouth. "No digestive system, replaced by tech!"

Perhaps they absorb things?

[darth_lopez]

also i forgot the Rachni they aren't nor are the Elcor

[BattleVisor]

Nautica773 wrote...

Recently I read a theory that said that the invention of fire was what allowed ****** sapiens to advance over the Neanderthals and other primates. We could heat ourselves, and cook our food. Cooked food is much easier to digest, so we got more calories/protein or whatever from our food, and we used the extra nourishment to develop bigger brains, since the brain is the organ that uses the most energy.

This is very wrong!

Neandrathrals are modern humans are both Home Sapiens and they both had fire and tools.

Seriously guys even today, the theories of the appearance of ****** Sapiens, is still in its infancy.

Modifié par BattleVisor, 07 février 2010 - 12:30 .

[BattleVisor]

Also I dont agree with the people who are saying the collectors look like the protheans at all.

EDI said herself they were changed so extensively, that they were no longer classified as protheans, look at the scions and the pretorians. Do they look like humans to you???.

The protheans most likely resembled the statues you see on Ilos.


I believe the reapers changed the protheans to look more like them. Isnt it funny how all of them look like the early animal life of the paleazoic era, being shellfish, arthopods and crustaceans

images1.wikia.nocookie.net/masseffect/images/thumb/e/ed/Colletor_Gen.png/250px-Colletor_Gen.png
images2.wikia.nocookie.net/masseffect/images/thumb/8/86/Ww.JPG/800px-Ww.JPG
images1.wikia.nocookie.net/masseffect/images/thumb/6/69/Reaper_fleet.png/280px-Reaper_fleet.png

ursispaltenstein.ch/blog/images/uploads_img/a_guide_to_the_orders_of_trilobites.jpg
www.astrobio.net/albums/origins/agb.jpg
knitty.com/ISSUEspring06/images/nautieBEAUTY.jpg

Modifié par BattleVisor, 07 février 2010 - 01:01 .

[Mooner911]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Recently I read a theory that said that the invention of fire was what allowed ****** sapiens to advance over the Neanderthals and other primates. We could heat ourselves, and cook our food. Cooked food is much easier to digest, so we got more calories/protein or whatever from our food, and we used the extra nourishment to develop bigger brains, since the brain is the organ that uses the most energy.

hahaha

a human invented fire. his name was Al Gore.

Neanderthals had no fire to heat themselves, and Brigette Bardot wouldn't let em buy fur clothes from us.

cooked food has fewer critters in it. *chewed* food is easier to digest. ergo: Al Gore invented teeth.

if you eat lots of nourishments your brain grows big. gotit. thanks. eat less nourishments to avoid headaches caused by your brain trying to explode out of your cranium. or think reeeeely hard to use up them nourishments to shrink your brain down.



sorry man. I couldn't help it. but keep them posts coming )

[T1l]

BattleVisor wrote...

This is very wrong!

Neandrathrals are modern humans are both Home Sapiens and they both had fire and tools.

Seriously guys even today, the theories of the appearance of ****** Sapiens, is still in its infancy.

There have been recent mitochondrial DNA studies that have proven Neanderthals were not a subspecies of ****** sapiens. Humans and Neanderthals share no recent genetic exchange. They are classified as ****** neanderthalensis, a separate species. You’re correct about them using rudimentary tools and fire, though; still, that doesn’t make them the same as ****** sapiens.

...but I don't think that's what you are getting at. I think I may have misread what you're actually trying to say; which is that it wasn't fire particularly that gave us an edge over the Neanderthal population.

[Proud Larry]

It might have something to do with convergent evolution. Just because you CAN have different features doesn't make them more viable for the kinds of environments you can expect to find in the Milky Way Galaxy. Sure you could have an alien with legs that wrap over their shoulders and 5 arms sticking out of their back and that would not look humanoid... but how is that practical for anything?

You must admit, they are all from the same galaxy at least. Perhaps the overall composition of the Milky Way is not that different, after all every cluster in the galaxy was formed from the same giant cloud of space gas.

Maybe if you look outside the Milky Way you would find life that isn't quite humanoid. Like in a galaxy formed from much less carbon.

[GnusmasTHX]

I don't think the Prothean appearance was retconned at all.



According to Vigil the Prothean extinction took a VERY LONG TIME. It could be that the first modification to the Protheans was their exterior; as in their ability to fly and their hardened carapaces. The Prothean warning may have simply been showing what they did to Protheans who have either been captured or 'surrendered'.



There's also the picture of the Prothean husk in the Codex, which still looks like the Ilos Protheans.

[FOSTER FREEZE1212]

TeaCokeProphet wrote...

It seems that every important spacefaring race is humanoid, with two legs, two arms, eyes, a mouth, some kind of ears...the likelihood of convergent evolution occuring at this scale is...unlikely, to say the least. It's a sci-fi cliche, and making a bunch of aliens as different from us as the hanar is annoyingly difficult to do, but everytime I think about everything in the galaxy being all too similar throws me out of immersion with the game. Not really complaining, just making an observation.

Well think about it. Humans have been evolving two have two legs and two arms and finally reached a very successful stage in our evolution. It is only logical to assume that these successful things will be repeated by some other things in the galaxy. as far as eyes the batarians have four.... so .... not sure what your getting at their, except i dont see why an organism would need more than two eyes (two to even out line of sight). it may even become hazardous to have more than two. More places for someone to shoot you with a BB gun. A mouth... um ya.... how else would you get food in.... thats just disgusting. and ears are kinda important two, you know having to hear and all. So ya that is why aliens are the way they are. Evolution answers all. 

[BattleVisor]

T1l wrote...

There have been recent mitochondrial DNA studies that have proven Neanderthals were not a subspecies of ****** sapiens. Humans and Neanderthals share no recent genetic exchange.

Wow 'prove' you say, in the scientific community, that word doesnt even exist.

Mitochrondial DNA studies wouldnt prove anything, because we all share a common ancestoral mother, that was dated after the neandrathals, so any mitochondrial studies wouldnt proven anything, because it cannot go further back than the common modern human ancestor.

[T1l]

BattleVisor wrote...

T1l wrote...

There have been recent mitochondrial DNA studies that have proven Neanderthals were not a subspecies of ****** sapiens. Humans and Neanderthals share no recent genetic exchange.

Wow 'prove' you say, in the scientific community, that word doesnt even exist.

Mitochrondial DNA studies wouldnt prove anything, because we all share a common ancestoral mother, that was dated after the neandrathals, so any mitochondrial studies wouldnt proven anything, because it cannot go further back than the common modern human ancestor.

Mitochondrial Eve is generally estimated to have lived around 200,000 years ago which pre-dates Neanderthals' exitinction; ****** Sapiens and Neanderthals co-existed. Why are we even having this discussion?

Modifié par T1l, 07 février 2010 - 01:12 .

[WoodWizzard87]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

johannes1212 wrote...

Guys keep in mind that the only thing that separates us from monkeys, apes and less sentient species are opposable thumbs.

You do realise that monkey and apes actually have twice as many opposable thumbs as we do, right?

What about higher brain functions?, superior learning skills?, many dialects and languages?, Adaptation to live anywhere? self-awareness?