107 réponses à ce sujet

[Turkeysock]

Any that involve talking.

[77boy84]

You HAVE to throw the guy out the window. Shepard just can't let him walk away after threatening him. He'll be a laughingstock, and then NO ONE would respect him.



Also, ME1's renegade options where generally racist or made you a huge **** for no reason.



In ME2 they seem to be more of an **** that just wants to get the job done.



And why is encouraging conrad a paragon option? Wouldn't setting him straight be the right option?

[BlackwindTheCommander]

Anyone feel as bad as I did when Shep stomped on Mouse's throat? I hit the interupt by accident and next thing I know, the kid is on the ground and my foot is mere centimeters from crushing his trachea.

[Twitchmonkey]

notphrog wrote...
Elnora is pulling a gun on you when you shoot her! Even before you activate the interupt.

You get guns pulled on you all the time. A lot of innocent people would be dead if that was all that was required to be killed, though it makes more sense for a renegade. Also, all that is said is that the sisters are required to kill someone before making it in, is it ever made clear who the sisters are?

[Bentenjamin]

Twitchmonkey wrote...

fogofeternity wrote...
Pushing the merc off the building when recruiting Thane. Shepard gains no benefit from doing so, it's murder for the sake of murder.

I don't have much of a problem with that as he was withholding information and in doing so forfeited his right to live. The most pointless renegade move I can think of is killing Elnora in the mission to recruit Samara. In reality she committed the murder, but from what you know at the time she's just a rookie that doesn't know anything and is surrendering.

I thought that was justified she pulled the gun on you first so you blasted her.

[Gill Kaiser]

What got me was that you are actually given the option of apologising for it afterwards. It's like Bioware realised that attacking Mouse is really, really dickish.

[Schneidend]

77boy84 wrote...
Also, ME1's renegade options where generally racist or made you a huge **** for no reason.

Completely wrong. Maxed out my Renegade meter without being a racist or harsh to people who didn't deserve it. Well, except Conrad, but he was becoming obsessed and dangerous.

[stillnotking]

Elnora is the perfect example of a Paragon choice being the "wrong" choice, since you find out later that she murdered Pitne For's partner and even gloated about it. She was lying to save her sorry hide. Very often the Paragon option just seems stupid, like letting the Batarians go after they were getting ready to torture Mordin's assistant. They're just going to go torture someone else.

The merc you kick out the window is threatening to summon his squad to kill you, so that's not exactly cold blood either. The only Renegade options that feel really "evil" are encouraging Jack to off the harmless squatter on Perugia and siding with Morinth against Samara. The rest of them are ethically defensible in a lawless environment.

[neubourn]

I guess you guys didnt pay attention during the Samara mission. You later find out that Elonora is a hardened killer and simply LIED to you so you wouldnt kill her...so yeah, she had it coming. And if you say "well shepard didnt know that til later," no...WE didnt know that til later, i like playing my Shepard thinking she has the ability to sniff out liar mercenaries.

[Gilsa]

Orogenic wrote...

Hmm.. I always equate renegade with stupid, so I expect renegade choices to be lacking in the logic department....

IIRC, in Tali's loyalty mission when the council springs it on her that her father is dead, the paragon doesn't say anything while the renegade asks the council what the hell is wrong with them for springing her father's death on her like that in the middle of the trial. Renegade has stupid moments just like paragon has sissy moments.

[tmp7704]

Twitchmonkey wrote...

You get guns pulled on you all the time. A lot of innocent people would be dead if that was all that was required to be killed, though it makes more sense for a renegade.

Pulling guns on people generally is all that's required to get killed. That's why innocent people usually try to avoid doing that first. Paid professionals like station security get some leeway here since they usually try to do their job, but any other "innocent" should generally know better.

[Twitchmonkey]

neubourn wrote...

I guess you guys didnt pay attention during the Samara mission. You later find out that Elonora is a hardened killer and simply LIED to you so you wouldnt kill her...so yeah, she had it coming. And if you say "well shepard didnt know that til later," no...WE didnt know that til later, i like playing my Shepard thinking she has the ability to sniff out liar mercenaries.

Even if that were true, since you don't know any better, doesn't it make it even worse if your Shepard kills someone who isn't a threat? Because then that means they knew that and still shot them.

Pulling guns on people generally is
all that's required to get killed. That's why innocent people usually
try to avoid doing that first. Paid professionals like station security
get some leeway here since they usually try to do their job, but any
other "innocent" should generally know better.

In Kate Bowman pulls a gun on you on (and shoots you, I think) on Feros and one of the hotel staff pulls a gun on you on the mission to recruit Thane. If you are quick to kill everyone that pulls a gun on you, both of them would be dead.

Modifié par Twitchmonkey, 07 février 2010 - 06:24 .

[Gill Kaiser]

neubourn wrote...

I guess you guys didnt pay attention during the Samara mission. You later find out that Elonora is a hardened killer and simply LIED to you so you wouldnt kill her...so yeah, she had it coming. And if you say "well shepard didnt know that til later," no...WE didnt know that til later, i like playing my Shepard thinking she has the ability to sniff out liar mercenaries.

So you're basically saying we're stupid for not metagaming?

[tmp7704]

BlackwindTheCommander wrote...

Anyone feel as bad as I did when Shep stomped on Mouse's throat? I hit the interupt by accident and next thing I know, the kid is on the ground and my foot is mere centimeters from crushing his trachea.

I welcomed that option because --given he and Thane apparently had some background-- it made it very simple to do a typical bad cop-good cop routine. I was being nasty, Thane was appealing to Mouse's sense and we got the information that way. You can even apologize for the act afterwards.

Modifié par tmp7704, 07 février 2010 - 06:27 .

[stillnotking]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

neubourn wrote...

I guess you guys didnt pay attention during the Samara mission. You later find out that Elonora is a hardened killer and simply LIED to you so you wouldnt kill her...so yeah, she had it coming. And if you say "well shepard didnt know that til later," no...WE didnt know that til later, i like playing my Shepard thinking she has the ability to sniff out liar mercenaries.

So you're basically saying we're stupid for not metagaming?

1. The cop tells you that anyone wearing an Eclipse uniform committed a murder as part of their initiation.
2. Elnora is wearing an Eclipse uniform.

Logic =/= metagaming.

[Urazz]

tmp7704 wrote...

Twitchmonkey wrote...

You get guns pulled on you all the time. A lot of innocent people would be dead if that was all that was required to be killed, though it makes more sense for a renegade.

Pulling guns on people generally is all that's required to get killed. That's why innocent people usually try to avoid doing that first. Paid professionals like station security get some leeway here since they usually try to do their job, but any other "innocent" should generally know better.

Yeah, she had the option to just kick away the gun or leave it on the floor to make her act more convincing.  I didn't buy it for a minute when I first ran into her and remembered the requirement for joining that gang.

Modifié par Urazz, 07 février 2010 - 06:28 .

[Internet Kraken]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

neubourn wrote...

I guess you guys didnt pay attention during the Samara mission. You later find out that Elonora is a hardened killer and simply LIED to you so you wouldnt kill her...so yeah, she had it coming. And if you say "well shepard didnt know that til later," no...WE didnt know that til later, i like playing my Shepard thinking she has the ability to sniff out liar mercenaries.

So you're basically saying we're stupid for not metagaming?

To be fair it didn't require metagame knowledge to predict that Elonora was a killer. Pitne For says that every Eclispe sisters earns their uniform by killing someone.

Elonora is an Eclipse Sister. It's not hard to figure out that she's just lying.

Modifié par Internet Kraken, 07 février 2010 - 06:30 .

[Twitchmonkey]

Urazz wrote...
Yeah, she had the option to just kick away the gun or leave it on the floor to make her act more convincing.  I didn't buy it for a minute when I first ran into her and remembered the requirement for joining that gang.

Again, I cannot recall any part that said that all members of Eclipse had killed someone, they were quite specific on who that initiation rite was restricted to. As for her not kicking away the gun, I suppose, but I can't recall any of the other NPCs that pulled guns on you kicking them away.

[Gill Kaiser]

stillnotking wrote...

Gill Kaiser wrote...

neubourn wrote...

I guess you guys didnt pay attention during the Samara mission. You later find out that Elonora is a hardened killer and simply LIED to you so you wouldnt kill her...so yeah, she had it coming. And if you say "well shepard didnt know that til later," no...WE didnt know that til later, i like playing my Shepard thinking she has the ability to sniff out liar mercenaries.

So you're basically saying we're stupid for not metagaming?

1. The cop tells you that anyone wearing an Eclipse uniform committed a murder as part of their initiation.
2. Elnora is wearing an Eclipse uniform.

Logic =/= metagaming.

Alright, I'll give you the uniform thing. Me and my Shepard forgot that, because I started the quest before I went to bed and got to Elnora the next day. Also, she was a very good actress.

[Schneidend]

Twitchmonkey wrote...

None of what you're saying changes the fact that Elnora draws her gun after her supposed surrender, fully intending to try and kill you. Also, as others have said, the Eclipse sisters have to murder somebody to get their uniform. You are told as much before you even get to the mission area.

Also, Lizbeth Baynham (Kate Bowman was the gal on the asteroid in Bring Down The Sky) accidently fires her pistol. Although it wasn't Bowman, this also happens in Bring Down the Sky, when Simon is surprised by Shepard's appearance and fires off a shot.

[stillnotking]

Gilsa wrote...

Orogenic wrote...

Hmm.. I always equate renegade with stupid, so I expect renegade choices to be lacking in the logic department....

IIRC, in Tali's loyalty mission when the council springs it on her that her father is dead, the paragon doesn't say anything while the renegade asks the council what the hell is wrong with them for springing her father's death on her like that in the middle of the trial. Renegade has stupid moments just like paragon has sissy moments.

Yeah... I was surprised during my Renegade playthrough with how often the Renegade choice felt "right".  I think BioWare did a great job of acknowledging that ethical behavior doesn't always mean deferring to authority or playing by someone's rules.  It's a big improvement over ME1 where taking the Renegade option often meant being racist or being a douchebag just for the sake of it.

[tmp7704]

Twitchmonkey wrote...

In Kate Bowman pulls a gun on you on (and shoots you, I think) on Feros and one of the hotel staff pulls a gun on you on the mission to recruit Thane. If you are quick to kill everyone that pulls a gun on you, both of them would be dead.

Yes; and better them than me. If you make a bad call about who you let to pull a gun on you, it's you who wind up dead and as far as character is concerned they can't just "reload the game and pick the other option".

Allowing people to have good chance to shoot you in the head is plain silly. You don't know if that guy who is pulling gun on you isn't actually trying to kill you. As the Spectre you stepped on many toes and by now a number of powerful people and organizations have good reason to want you dead. You have no idea of telling if that person aiming at you isn't working for one of them.

[neubourn]

She was a mercenary, and yeah i forgot to mention about the fact the cop tips you off about how the Eclipse have to murder someone to get in, when i ran in to Elanora, i had that in the back of my head, so i was thinking that she was probably lying, but it only got confirmed later at the data terminal. Thats what i meant. Not that anybody was stupid, just that her story didnt add up, and she wasnt exactly innocent.

[Twitchmonkey]

Schneidend wrote...

None of what you're saying changes the fact that Elnora draws her gun after her supposed surrender, fully intending to try and kill you. Also, as others have said, the Eclipse sisters have to murder somebody to get their uniform. You are told as much before you even get to the mission area.

Can you tell an Eclipse Sister uniform from a regular Eclipse uniform? I can't. If you can, then I guess you've got a good eye.

Also, Lizbeth Baynham (Kate Bowman was the gal on the asteroid in Bring Down The Sky) accidently fires her pistol. Although it wasn't Bowman, this also happens in Bring Down the Sky, when Simon is surprised by Shepard's appearance and fires off a shot.

Ah, excuse my mistake, the names are similar, but to shoot you, she still had to have her gun pointed at you, same as Elnora.

Modifié par Twitchmonkey, 07 février 2010 - 06:36 .