107 réponses à ce sujet

[Gill Kaiser]

tmp7704 wrote...

Twitchmonkey wrote...

In Kate Bowman pulls a gun on you on (and shoots you, I think) on Feros and one of the hotel staff pulls a gun on you on the mission to recruit Thane. If you are quick to kill everyone that pulls a gun on you, both of them would be dead.

Yes; and better them than me. If you make a bad call about who you let to pull a gun on you, it's you who wind up dead and as far as character is concerned they can't just "reload the game and pick the other option".

Allowing people to have good chance to shoot you in the head is plain silly. You don't know if that guy who is pulling gun on you isn't actually trying to kill you. As the Spectre you stepped on many toes and by now a number of powerful people and organizations have good reason to want you dead. You have no idea of telling if that person aiming at you isn't working for one of them.

The thing about this is that everyone has kinetic shielding in the future, so the problem isn't as acute. If Elnora had actually shot at Shepard it probably wouldn't have even hit him.

[Twitchmonkey]

KorPhaeron11 wrote...
Why should I let her leave, makes no sense, I was her choise to be there, she knew the rep of eclipse and what they did. I sould let her go so she can bluber to all the other eclipse cells about what I did??

I really dont get your problem.

I don't really see a problem with it, it's just that killing a surrendering opponent is one of the less necessary renegade moves. If I was a renegade then I'd probably still do it, just to be safe.

[Khavos]

Twitchmonkey wrote...

In Kate Bowman pulls a gun on you on (and shoots you, I think) on Feros and one of the hotel staff pulls a gun on you on the mission to recruit Thane. If you are quick to kill everyone that pulls a gun on you, both of them would be dead.

The hotel staffer got himself knocked out by my Shepard.  'Cause, see, he was very clearly not a Blue Suns merc.  The girl pulling the gun on him later definitely was.  This was after he'd spent the past half hour fighting his way through Blue Suns mercs. 

Of course she got shot.  I'm kind of amazed that anyone would NOT shoot her.  What kind of thought process does that require?

[tmp7704]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

The thing about this is that everyone has kinetic shielding in the future, so the problem isn't as acute.

However the thing is since everyone has kinetic shielding, if someone is actually intending to kill me they most likely took it into account. Meaning if they shoot me then my shield ain't going to be much of help, and since the only way to find out if they intend to shoot me is to let them... well.

[Collider]

Yes Shepard has had other people draw their guns on him. But many of them weren't mercenaries. And there was no interrupt in ME1.

Feros - She's an unarmored colonist. She got the first shot too, and shot him by accident, and apologized.

Noveria - Security personnel who could just be doing their job.

Illium - An armored mercenary of the Eclipse group, which requires you to kill someone to join. She is eyeing/reaching for a weapon even before standing up and talking to Shepard. Then she pulls out a weapon while Shepard is trained on her. It's not the same.

[Gill Kaiser]

Khavos wrote...

Twitchmonkey wrote...

In Kate Bowman pulls a gun on you on (and shoots you, I think) on Feros and one of the hotel staff pulls a gun on you on the mission to recruit Thane. If you are quick to kill everyone that pulls a gun on you, both of them would be dead.

The hotel staffer got himself knocked out by my Shepard.  'Cause, see, he was very clearly not a Blue Suns merc.  The girl pulling the gun on him later definitely was.  This was after he'd spent the past half hour fighting his way through Blue Suns mercs. 

Of course she got shot.  I'm kind of amazed that anyone would NOT shoot her.  What kind of thought process does that require?

Well, the thing is, the Renegade interrupt is quite quick that time, and she doesn't actually shoot you. She also looks confused and terrified the entire time. She's a very good actress.

[Schneidend]

Twitchmonkey wrote...

Ah, excuse my mistake, the names are similar, but to shoot you, she still had to have her gun pointed at you, same as Elnora.

Well, you aren't aware of Baynham's presence until AFTER she shoots you. Same with Simon, actually. And, again, the difference is that Elnora maliciously draws her gun and attempts to shoot you after her supposed surrender. She is clearly the aggressor here, and not merely defending herself like Baynham.

As for the Eclipse uniforms, well, you're clearly informed that this is the practice of that particular gang of Eclipse. They're called the sisters because they're asari and they're women. The uniform doesn't need to be different, since the difference is in their geography. The Eclipse running those alleys and docks are "the sisters."

[Twitchmonkey]

Khavos wrote...
The hotel staffer got himself knocked out by my Shepard.  'Cause, see, he was very clearly not a Blue Suns merc.  The girl pulling the gun on him later definitely was.  This was after he'd spent the past half hour fighting his way through Blue Suns mercs. 

Of course she got shot.  I'm kind of amazed that anyone would NOT shoot her.  What kind of thought process does that require?

Well the idea is that this is a quick decision, given a couple of seconds it is clear that she isn't going to shoot you or she would have already have done it. If it is a instant decision, then the moment you see the gun you should shoot, but Shepard historically has ascertained the situation before shooting, combined with the fact that given the shields, there is no way one bullet will do any serious harm, as we saw with Baynham.

Well, you aren't aware of Baynham's presence until AFTER she shoots
you. Same with Simon, actually. And, again, the difference is
that Elnora maliciously draws her gun and attempts to shoot you after
her supposed surrender. She is clearly the aggressor here, and not
merely defending herself like Baynham.

As for the Eclipse
uniforms, well, you're clearly informed that this is the practice of
that particular gang of Eclipse. They're called the sisters because
they're asari and they're women. The uniform doesn't need to be
different, since the difference is in their geography. The Eclipse
running those alleys and docks are "the sisters."

It is a standard response to not drop her gun while you still have one pointed at her, that is the same response as you got entering Noveria, and they didn't get shot.

I also saw plenty of standard Eclipse mercs in that scenario, clearly not all of them could be sisters as not all fo them are male. If you want to treat the situation like your Shepard knew she was a sister than fine, but I don't see how you could be sure of that as a player.

Modifié par Twitchmonkey, 07 février 2010 - 06:47 .

[Khavos]

Twitchmonkey wrote...

KorPhaeron11 wrote...
Why should I let her leave, makes no sense, I was her choise to be there, she knew the rep of eclipse and what they did. I sould let her go so she can bluber to all the other eclipse cells about what I did??

I really dont get your problem.

I don't really see a problem with it, it's just that killing a surrendering opponent is one of the less necessary renegade moves. If I was a renegade then I'd probably still do it, just to be safe.

She surrenders, and then pulls a gun on Shepard.  That's not exactly something new.  Pirates did it all the time, for example. 

Put it in a contemporary context if you like.  Soldier B surrenders to Soldier A.  Soldier B waits until Soldier A's guard is down and then grabs his rifle and points it at Soldier A.  Why on earth would Soldier A not shoot Soldier B? 

[tmp7704]

For what's worth, when these Renegade interrupts are used in ME2 (in such situation) Shepard generally tries to disable the person in some way rather than straight kill them. Which is sensible imo. The shooting that merc dead after delivering a speech to her was rather unexpected and not exactly what i was expecting from the interrupt. But then can't really argue with the result.

Modifié par tmp7704, 07 février 2010 - 06:48 .

[Twitchmonkey]

Khavos wrote...
She surrenders, and then pulls a gun on Shepard.  That's not exactly something new.  Pirates did it all the time, for example. 

Put it in a contemporary context if you like.  Soldier B surrenders to Soldier A.  Soldier B waits until Soldier A's guard is down and then grabs his rifle and points it at Soldier A.  Why on earth would Soldier A not shoot Soldier B? 

If she intended to do that then she would have gotten off a shot before you could make the interrupt, she clearly had no intention to shoot you at that point.

[Gill Kaiser]

You guys are arguing that Shepard should shoot Elnora the instant she goes for her weapon, because it's a split-second decision for self-preservation. That I would agree with, except if you do actually choose the Renegade interrupt, Shepard doesn't just shoot her. He makes a malicious quip about her loyalties, waits for her response, and THEN shoots her. It crosses the line into being a dick.

[Khavos]

Twitchmonkey wrote...

Well the idea is that this is a quick decision, given a couple of seconds it is clear that she isn't going to shoot you or she would have already have done it. If it is a instant decision, then the moment you see the gun you should shoot, but Shepard historically has ascertained the situation before shooting, combined with the fact that given the shields, there is no way one bullet will do any serious harm, as we saw with Baynham.

 

I'm being serious when I beg you to never even think about getting a job within law enforcement or the military. 

[Beefmachine]

fogofeternity wrote...

Twitchmonkey wrote...

I don't have much of a problem with that as he was withholding information and in doing so forfeited his right to live. The most pointless renegade move I can think of is killing Elnora in the mission to recruit Samara. In reality she committed the murder, but from what you know at the time she's just a rookie that doesn't know anything and is surrendering.

I'm not sure withholding information equates to forfeiting his right to live.

Yeah, the Elnora thing also. It's only after you kill her that get justification for your action. Which is nice, but you're right, it doesn't justify killing her with the information you have at the time.

No in the mind of the Renegade You shoot first and ask questions later Paragon likes taking risks by trying to find the good in every situation or the good in people.. Renegade you take no chances and you have no one trying to shoot you in the back later. Think about eith Elonora at first she comes like like a timid rookie and I was considering ok.. I'll let her go then she starts reaching for her gun and screams "F*** YOU!" I  insticively shot her and turns out my Renegade insticts were right in the first place.

[Beefmachine]

EDIT- double post.

Modifié par Beefmachine, 07 février 2010 - 06:50 .

[casedawgz]

Khavos wrote...

Twitchmonkey wrote...

Well the idea is that this is a quick decision, given a couple of seconds it is clear that she isn't going to shoot you or she would have already have done it. If it is a instant decision, then the moment you see the gun you should shoot, but Shepard historically has ascertained the situation before shooting, combined with the fact that given the shields, there is no way one bullet will do any serious harm, as we saw with Baynham.

 

I'm being serious when I beg you to never even think about getting a job within law enforcement or the military. 

Wasn't it also...a shotgun? Big difference. One blast from a shotgun will do a number on anyone, kinetic barriers or no.

[InvaderErl]

I shot the Asari the first time as I hit the interrupt as soon as it was available, since she was reaching for her weapon. This notion that Shep shouldn't fire his pistol when a merc supposedly surrendering reaches for their weapon is ludicrous.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 07 février 2010 - 06:51 .

[Gill Kaiser]

But she only screams **** YOU if you say you're going to shoot her.

[Schneidend]

Twitchmonkey wrote...

If she intended to do that then she would have gotten off a shot before you could make the interrupt, she clearly had no intention to shoot you at that point.

She doesn't "intend" to do it. She does it. She pretends to surrender, and then tries to shoot you. Shepard just happens to be faster if you choose the interrupt. She is TRYING to kill you.

[Twitchmonkey]

Khavos wrote...

I'm being serious when I beg you to never even think about getting a job within law enforcement or the military. 

If I manage to get my hands on a space age armor system that allows me to take a rocket to the gut without having any damage to my person, I think I'd be quite the asset.

She doesn't "intend" to do it. She does it. She pretends to surrender,
and then tries to shoot you. Shepard just happens to be faster if you
choose the interrupt. She is TRYING to kill you.

She never shot me, because I never did the interrupt, so clearly she didn't intend to. I think she would know how to do that much. I would've killed her if she shot me.

Modifié par Twitchmonkey, 07 février 2010 - 06:54 .

[Gill Kaiser]

Schneidend wrote...

Twitchmonkey wrote...

If she intended to do that then she would have gotten off a shot before you could make the interrupt, she clearly had no intention to shoot you at that point.

She doesn't "intend" to do it. She does it. She pretends to surrender, and then tries to shoot you. Shepard just happens to be faster if you choose the interrupt. She is TRYING to kill you.

But if you don't choose the interrupt, she doesn't shoot you... so what's your point?

[Beefmachine]

Honestly some of the Paragon options are pointless you go far out of your way to help people and in reality this mission is very time critical but since its a video game ... I digress..

Modifié par Beefmachine, 07 février 2010 - 06:56 .

[Schneidend]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

But if you don't choose the interrupt, she doesn't shoot you... so what's your point?

My point is that there's every indication to perceive her as a very real threat. I wasn't able to choose what my Shepard did with the benefit of hindsight on my first playthrough. I saw a two-faced witch pulling a gun on me, saw the Renegade icon, gasped, and fired. That she might not have pulled the trigger is too big a risk for my Shepard to take.