207 réponses à ce sujet

[Demon Messiah]

I have to agree with the OP. The rpg elements in ME2 were a little lacking. There were a few innovations I loved, and a few I hated.



The inventory system lacked any kind of real progression for armor and weapons. There were like 2-3 choices for each armor slot or weapon. And each weapon or piece of armor didn't really effect gameplay that much. Weapon design basically went like this: your starter weapon followed by a choice of either 1. a fire from the hip weapon (lots of rounds/short reload/lower damage), or 2. a precision weapon (fewer rounds/longer reload/higher damage). Armor had no noticeable effect on the game at all. Stacking shield or damage reduction armor did not make me anymore able to stand in crossfire than did wearing damage boosting armor. My theory here is that RPGs *should* have some equipment progression. I do agree that ME1 had far far too much progression, but ME2 jumped back way beyond the mark.



The skill system also felt clunky and worthless. Not to mention that waiting 4 levels to upgrade 1 ability so that it lasted 1 sec longer or something was a pain in the ass. After maxxing out each class line, spending any points seemed a bit arbitary. I can't really think of any ability that truely saved my ass at any given time, which is really sad because every ability you could upgrade was combat related. My second playthrough I actually didn't upgrade anything besides the main class lines for each squad member.



My biggest beef in ME2 is that there's no progression to be found anywhere besides the research stations (which i thought was a wonderful idea, as long as it was added in addition to a typical inventory and skill progression tree instead of replacing them). This kind of manifests itself in many different ways. Loyalty is a 2 tier system, for example. You start with an unloyal squad member. You do their quest, and voila, their loyal to you now. There your done with them. Group member quests felt much more like climbing a tree in ME1, than the single step that they are in ME2. There's next to no way to earn credits in ME2, besides story quests. The whole idea of the side quests in most games is to accumulate currency to buy upgrades. Since the only upgrades were research ones I guess they decided to give us only exactly as much as we needed through the main story quests.



Now with all that said, ME2 has a great narritive, the dialogue is interesting and the characters and voice acting are insanely good. I *do* like ME2. But I do miss the rpg that it was as well. I'd call ME2 more akin to an action-shooter with rpg elements than an rpg with shooter elements that ME1 was. And before anyone gets the idea that I have rose-colored glasses on about ME1, I played through both of them in the span of about a week. Finishing the first and continuing into the second with my level 60 ME1 character.

[lukandroll]

I want to be able to mod weapons/armor according to the battle, something that ME1 does very well.
I want STATS to MEAN something... if you wanna catch more shooters fans, just put an option to play ME3 like a stupid "ME2" version of it and be done with it... I want a deep game, that's why I'm playing BioWare games

Modifié par lukandroll, 07 février 2010 - 06:13 .

[MarloMarlo]

Hizoka003 wrote...
RPGs are about evolving your charater, making your charater your own... ME2 does not do that.. by the end of the game every player has the same everything, you just swap out a handful of skills....

An RPG is more about being in the world of the game then just fighting from point a to point B... if you really want to experiance what an RPG is go play FF7 or Chrono Trigger, yes they are very old games now but they are the best examples of RPGs ever done... even KOTOR if you need something mor recent

By your definition of RPGs, FF7 and Chrono Trigger are not RPGs. And yet there they are, your pinnacle of role playing without a single moment of role playing to be had in either game.

I wouldn't call them RPGs, either. They're fun and I liked their storylines and music for the most part, but that's it.

Hizoka003 wrote...
ME2 is a shooter with RPG elements.. not an RPG with shooter elements, not i am sorry if you lack the ability to understand that... hell if you don't you are not smart enough to understand a good RPG.

I'm sure you'll have no trouble amusing us all with your personal explanation of the difference between a "shooter with RPG elements" and "an RPG with shooter elements," and how ME1 and ME2 fit into those supposedly different categories instead of just the same one.

[Hizoka003]

MarloMarlo wrote...

Hizoka003 wrote...
RPGs are about evolving your charater, making your charater your own... ME2 does not do that.. by the end of the game every player has the same everything, you just swap out a handful of skills....

An RPG is more about being in the world of the game then just fighting from point a to point B... if you really want to experiance what an RPG is go play FF7 or Chrono Trigger, yes they are very old games now but they are the best examples of RPGs ever done... even KOTOR if you need something mor recent

By your definition of RPGs, FF7 and Chrono Trigger are not RPGs. And yet there they are, your pinnacle of role playing without a single moment of role playing to be had in either game.

I wouldn't call them RPGs, either. They're fun and I liked their storylines and music for the most part, but that's it.

Hizoka003 wrote...
ME2 is a shooter with RPG elements.. not an RPG with shooter elements, not i am sorry if you lack the ability to understand that... hell if you don't you are not smart enough to understand a good RPG.

I'm sure you'll have no trouble amusing us all with your personal explanation of the difference between a "shooter with RPG elements" and "an RPG with shooter elements," and how ME1 and ME2 fit into those supposedly different categories instead of just the same one.

do you main line stupid???

[Goat_Shepard]

All I have to say is that my opinion is that Bioware made this more of a shooter because Dragon Age Origins is the ultimate RPG. ME1 is an equally good RPG. A pure shooter guy will like ME2 to ME1, a pure RPG guy will like ME1 to ME2. I like both elements and love this game. Anyways, once again...



My 0.02

[WillieStyle]

I swear there was more character development and "emersion" in the Archangel quest than in all of ME1.

[Hizoka003]

WillieStyle wrote...

I swear there was more character development and "emersion" in the Archangel quest than in all of ME1.

yeah you are in personfication of "ignorance is bliss"

[Antonius66]

I could not agree more.  ME3 definitely needs more RPG elements.  I mean, you can have the shooter and RPG elements without dumbing it down.   Things I would like to see in the ME3.

- bring back the bars on the bottom left with shield and health being constantly displayed as bars
- a real inventory system where you can see actual damage numbers and compare weapons by fire rate, ammo, damage etc
- more skills and more skill variety

[Khavos]

ME3 will have only as much, or fewer, RPG elements as ME2. They're not chasing the RPG demographic with these games. They're chasing the console shooter demographic.



If you don't like it, quit buying the games. I won't be picking up ME3, and I regret picking up ME2. Bad sales numbers will make them change, not forum whining that they're not reading.

[Serogon]

Hizoka003 wrote...

WillieStyle wrote...

I swear there was more character development and "emersion" in the Archangel quest than in all of ME1.

yeah you are in personfication of "ignorance is bliss"

I love how you just act like everyone who disagrees with you is an
idiot, despite them actually being correct. I don't agree with this one, but as for the person who said that by your
definition FF7 and Chrono Trigger aren't RPG's, he's right.

[DKnightPortela]

Hizoka003 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

no you fall into the category of small minded peopel who refuse to believe that a game can actualy be both and that its impossible to ROLE PLAY (which is the defining term of an RPG) without tons of pointless options and 300 different skills that arent needed. What defines an RPG is the ability to role play a character not if you have to drink water 3 times a day to stay alive or if you can spend 80 hours tryign to drive up a hill in your rover to get to a deposit of some random x mineral. Those things are simply periphial improvements to an RPG they are not what makes a game an RPG or not.

You cling to the idea that ME 1 was such a superior RPG when it has very little that ME 2 does not the "exploration" is meaniningless as you are exploring the same thing over and over and over and you find the same thing over and over and over, theres like 6-7 actualy unique things to be found in the entire universe across all the planets that are not related to a quest.

You speficialy state that ME 2 has no large cities when it clearly has both illium AND the citadel both of which are larger or of the same size than the ONLY large city in ME 1 which is the citadel. As for the flotilla perhaps you should take some time to actualy explore the lore surounding the quarians to answer your own question on why you only go there once.

there is a big differance in an RPG and a Shooter with dialog choices... i agree we do not need eleventy billion item drops... but at the same time you can get every armor peice in game before you do anything else... RPGs are about evolving your charater, making your charater your own... ME2 does not do that.. by the end of the game every player has the same everything, you just swap out a handful of skills....

Agree 100%. Thats why i will never buy more products from Bioware before time and even ever if they dont get their heads straight and stop making "fashion" games and go back to the inovative and epic world making they started with.

[MarloMarlo]

Hizoka003 wrote...
do you main line stupid???

Do you have an actual argument? Or are you just going to noisily breathe through your mouth and pretend that contradicting yourself somehow validates anything you say rather than makes you look like an idiot.

[BLY78NOR]

DKnightPortela wrote...

Hizoka003 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

no you fall into the category of small minded peopel who refuse to believe that a game can actualy be both and that its impossible to ROLE PLAY (which is the defining term of an RPG) without tons of pointless options and 300 different skills that arent needed. What defines an RPG is the ability to role play a character not if you have to drink water 3 times a day to stay alive or if you can spend 80 hours tryign to drive up a hill in your rover to get to a deposit of some random x mineral. Those things are simply periphial improvements to an RPG they are not what makes a game an RPG or not.

You cling to the idea that ME 1 was such a superior RPG when it has very little that ME 2 does not the "exploration" is meaniningless as you are exploring the same thing over and over and over and you find the same thing over and over and over, theres like 6-7 actualy unique things to be found in the entire universe across all the planets that are not related to a quest.

You speficialy state that ME 2 has no large cities when it clearly has both illium AND the citadel both of which are larger or of the same size than the ONLY large city in ME 1 which is the citadel. As for the flotilla perhaps you should take some time to actualy explore the lore surounding the quarians to answer your own question on why you only go there once.

there is a big differance in an RPG and a Shooter with dialog choices... i agree we do not need eleventy billion item drops... but at the same time you can get every armor peice in game before you do anything else... RPGs are about evolving your charater, making your charater your own... ME2 does not do that.. by the end of the game every player has the same everything, you just swap out a handful of skills....

Agree 100%. Thats why i will never buy more products from Bioware before time and even ever if they dont get their heads straight and stop making "fashion" games and go back to the inovative and epic world making they started with.

God forbid games actually evolve right? just keep making the same game over and over to keep a handful of loot and grind purists happy

[Khavos]

BLY78NOR wrote...

God forbid games actually evolve right? just keep making the same game over and over to keep a handful of loot and grind purists happy

Seems to work pretty well for Blizzard.

[Hizoka003]

BLY78NOR wrote...

DKnightPortela wrote...

Hizoka003 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

no you fall into the category of small minded peopel who refuse to believe that a game can actualy be both and that its impossible to ROLE PLAY (which is the defining term of an RPG) without tons of pointless options and 300 different skills that arent needed. What defines an RPG is the ability to role play a character not if you have to drink water 3 times a day to stay alive or if you can spend 80 hours tryign to drive up a hill in your rover to get to a deposit of some random x mineral. Those things are simply periphial improvements to an RPG they are not what makes a game an RPG or not.

You cling to the idea that ME 1 was such a superior RPG when it has very little that ME 2 does not the "exploration" is meaniningless as you are exploring the same thing over and over and over and you find the same thing over and over and over, theres like 6-7 actualy unique things to be found in the entire universe across all the planets that are not related to a quest.

You speficialy state that ME 2 has no large cities when it clearly has both illium AND the citadel both of which are larger or of the same size than the ONLY large city in ME 1 which is the citadel. As for the flotilla perhaps you should take some time to actualy explore the lore surounding the quarians to answer your own question on why you only go there once.

there is a big differance in an RPG and a Shooter with dialog choices... i agree we do not need eleventy billion item drops... but at the same time you can get every armor peice in game before you do anything else... RPGs are about evolving your charater, making your charater your own... ME2 does not do that.. by the end of the game every player has the same everything, you just swap out a handful of skills....

Agree 100%. Thats why i will never buy more products from Bioware before time and even ever if they dont get their heads straight and stop making "fashion" games and go back to the inovative and epic world making they started with.

God forbid games actually evolve right? just keep making the same game over and over to keep a handful of loot and grind purists happy

thats just it the game did not evolve... it devolved into a mindless shooter

[MassEffect762]

Khavos wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

God forbid games actually evolve right? just keep making the same game over and over to keep a handful of loot and grind purists happy

Seems to work pretty well for Blizzard.

I don't think EA/BW did what they did with ME2 for that reason, being to evolve. The action and dialogue portions were improved sure, but the game is hardly "bullet-proof".

I think they made ME2 the why it is so as to appeal to the casual shooter, reducing cost and time restraints and leaving plenty of space to work with for ME3.

[Khavos]

MassEffect762 wrote...

Khavos wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

God forbid games actually evolve right? just keep making the same game over and over to keep a handful of loot and grind purists happy

Seems to work pretty well for Blizzard.

I don't think EA/BW did what they did with ME2 for that reason, being to evolve. The action and dialogue portions were improved sure, but the game is hardly "bullet-proof".

I think they made ME2 the why it is so as to appeal to the casual shooter, reducing cost and time restraints and leaving plenty of space to work with for ME3.

Undoubtedly.  They're chasing a certain demographic with the game.  I think it's a dumb call, myself, but what do I know?  Maybe it's working.  

[BLY78NOR]

Hizoka003 wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

DKnightPortela wrote...

Hizoka003 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

no you fall into the category of small minded peopel who refuse to believe that a game can actualy be both and that its impossible to ROLE PLAY (which is the defining term of an RPG) without tons of pointless options and 300 different skills that arent needed. What defines an RPG is the ability to role play a character not if you have to drink water 3 times a day to stay alive or if you can spend 80 hours tryign to drive up a hill in your rover to get to a deposit of some random x mineral. Those things are simply periphial improvements to an RPG they are not what makes a game an RPG or not.

You cling to the idea that ME 1 was such a superior RPG when it has very little that ME 2 does not the "exploration" is meaniningless as you are exploring the same thing over and over and over and you find the same thing over and over and over, theres like 6-7 actualy unique things to be found in the entire universe across all the planets that are not related to a quest.

You speficialy state that ME 2 has no large cities when it clearly has both illium AND the citadel both of which are larger or of the same size than the ONLY large city in ME 1 which is the citadel. As for the flotilla perhaps you should take some time to actualy explore the lore surounding the quarians to answer your own question on why you only go there once.

there is a big differance in an RPG and a Shooter with dialog choices... i agree we do not need eleventy billion item drops... but at the same time you can get every armor peice in game before you do anything else... RPGs are about evolving your charater, making your charater your own... ME2 does not do that.. by the end of the game every player has the same everything, you just swap out a handful of skills....

Agree 100%. Thats why i will never buy more products from Bioware before time and even ever if they dont get their heads straight and stop making "fashion" games and go back to the inovative and epic world making they started with.

God forbid games actually evolve right? just keep making the same game over and over to keep a handful of loot and grind purists happy

thats just it the game did not evolve... it devolved into a mindless shooter

That's purely subjective and largely depneds on what YOU want out of the game, it's amazing to me that people can't just enjoy something for what it is rather then **** and moan endlessly about what it's not.

What i got was an RPG with Gears of war quality combat, i'd call that evolution from the days where combat was an after thought
Your actual skill isn't definded by numbers anymore, but you can still train and evolve powers that make your life a lot easier. ME2 hits that sweet spot where nothing really feels like comprimise anymore like combat did in the first game

[xSHAD0WENx]

thats why i loved about ME1 it was an RPG with shooter elemments. ME2 is more of a shooter.



i kinda feel let down when i played the game.

[Hizoka003]

you want a shooter... not an RPG mass effect is supposed to be a RPG, but its nothing but a shooter with dialog choices

[Khavos]

BLY78NOR wrote...

What i got was an RPG with Gears of war quality combat, i'd call that evolution from the days where combat was an after thought
Your actual skill isn't definded by numbers anymore, but you can still train and evolve powers that make your life a lot easier. ME2 hits that sweet spot where nothing really feels like comprimise anymore like combat did in the first game

That's also quite subjective.  I personally find it a ridiculous assertion that ME2 comes anywhere close to GoW combat. 

[BLY78NOR]

Khavos wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

God forbid games actually evolve right? just keep making the same game over and over to keep a handful of loot and grind purists happy

Seems to work pretty well for Blizzard.

Their games are targeted at a competely different audience

[Khavos]

BLY78NOR wrote...

Their games are targeted at a competely different audience

Who're they targeting?

Who's Bioware targeting?

[Hizoka003]

BLY78NOR wrote...

Khavos wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

God forbid games actually evolve right? just keep making the same game over and over to keep a handful of loot and grind purists happy

Seems to work pretty well for Blizzard.

Their games are targeted at a competely different audience

really... they both want to grab the RPG gamers... but it seems BioWare just gave up on the RPGers and coped out to grabing the retarded shooter fans



and to think ANY game company wouldn't want to grab wow players is the most retarded thing ever... it is the highest grossing game ever made... think about it 11 million people paying 15 bucks per month.... Wow makes Blizzard more in a month the ME2 will make Bioware total

Modifié par Hizoka003, 07 février 2010 - 09:42 .

[TJSolo]

Khavos wrote...

MassEffect762 wrote...

Khavos wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

God forbid games actually evolve right? just keep making the same game over and over to keep a handful of loot and grind purists happy

Seems to work pretty well for Blizzard.

I don't think EA/BW did what they did with ME2 for that reason, being to evolve. The action and dialogue portions were improved sure, but the game is hardly "bullet-proof".

I think they made ME2 the why it is so as to appeal to the casual shooter, reducing cost and time restraints and leaving plenty of space to work with for ME3.

Undoubtedly.  They're chasing a certain demographic with the game.  I think it's a dumb call, myself, but what do I know?  Maybe it's working.  

If by working you mean just selling units, I suppose you're right.
Although this "working" state is problematic since it is a sequel that doesn't improve on most of the components of the first game that made the first game so inspiring.

Trying to follow popular trends is a sure fire way to make something that won't me positively remembered.