207 réponses à ce sujet

[BLY78NOR]

Khavos wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

What i got was an RPG with Gears of war quality combat, i'd call that evolution from the days where combat was an after thought
Your actual skill isn't definded by numbers anymore, but you can still train and evolve powers that make your life a lot easier. ME2 hits that sweet spot where nothing really feels like comprimise anymore like combat did in the first game

That's also quite subjective.  I personally find it a ridiculous assertion that ME2 comes anywhere close to GoW combat. 

It comes A LOT closer then pretty much every rpg hybrid ever made. It does cover shooting a lot better then most pure shooters does. 

[lukandroll]

BLY78NOR wrote...

Hizoka003 wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

DKnightPortela wrote...

Hizoka003 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

no you fall into the category of small minded peopel who refuse to believe that a game can actualy be both and that its impossible to ROLE PLAY (which is the defining term of an RPG) without tons of pointless options and 300 different skills that arent needed. What defines an RPG is the ability to role play a character not if you have to drink water 3 times a day to stay alive or if you can spend 80 hours tryign to drive up a hill in your rover to get to a deposit of some random x mineral. Those things are simply periphial improvements to an RPG they are not what makes a game an RPG or not.

You cling to the idea that ME 1 was such a superior RPG when it has very little that ME 2 does not the "exploration" is meaniningless as you are exploring the same thing over and over and over and you find the same thing over and over and over, theres like 6-7 actualy unique things to be found in the entire universe across all the planets that are not related to a quest.

You speficialy state that ME 2 has no large cities when it clearly has both illium AND the citadel both of which are larger or of the same size than the ONLY large city in ME 1 which is the citadel. As for the flotilla perhaps you should take some time to actualy explore the lore surounding the quarians to answer your own question on why you only go there once.

there is a big differance in an RPG and a Shooter with dialog choices... i agree we do not need eleventy billion item drops... but at the same time you can get every armor peice in game before you do anything else... RPGs are about evolving your charater, making your charater your own... ME2 does not do that.. by the end of the game every player has the same everything, you just swap out a handful of skills....

Agree 100%. Thats why i will never buy more products from Bioware before time and even ever if they dont get their heads straight and stop making "fashion" games and go back to the inovative and epic world making they started with.

God forbid games actually evolve right? just keep making the same game over and over to keep a handful of loot and grind purists happy

thats just it the game did not evolve... it devolved into a mindless shooter

That's purely subjective and largely depneds on what YOU want out of the game, it's amazing to me that people can't just enjoy something for what it is rather then **** and moan endlessly about what it's not.

What i got was an RPG with Gears of war quality combat, i'd call that evolution from the days where combat was an after thought
Your actual skill isn't definded by numbers anymore, but you can still train and evolve powers that make your life a lot easier. ME2 hits that sweet spot where nothing really feels like comprimise anymore like combat did in the first game

If I want to play a shooter, I'd play some EPIC or ID game, Crysis, or any other action packed game...
If i want to play a BioWare game labeled as "RPG" I DO want to play a BioWare RPG, not some shooter

Modifié par lukandroll, 07 février 2010 - 09:41 .

[Giantevilhead]

They could easily add in consumable items like stims and drugs.

[Khavos]

BLY78NOR wrote...

Khavos wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

What i got was an RPG with Gears of war quality combat, i'd call that evolution from the days where combat was an after thought
Your actual skill isn't definded by numbers anymore, but you can still train and evolve powers that make your life a lot easier. ME2 hits that sweet spot where nothing really feels like comprimise anymore like combat did in the first game

That's also quite subjective.  I personally find it a ridiculous assertion that ME2 comes anywhere close to GoW combat. 

It comes A LOT closer then pretty much every rpg hybrid ever made. It does cover shooting a lot better then most pure shooters does. 

There we'll have to disagree.  I find the shooting elements - basically, you know, the gameplay - incredibly boring compared to other shooters.  I play a lot of them, as I like them quite a bit, so the simple fact that it's a shooter isn't what's turning me off.

What's turning me off is that it's not a particularly good shooter. 

[Hizoka003]

Now that Wow has been brought up... that is am example of the most successful RPG ever yes its an MMORPG but its still an RPG... and there is the fact that it make Blizz more in 1 month the ME2 will make for BioWare total

[BLY78NOR]

Khavos wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

Their games are targeted at a competely different audience

Who're they targeting?

Who's Bioware targeting?

Seeing as how Blizzard only make PC games it's pretty clear who their target audience is while ME was a 360 game ported to PCs later

Where do you think the majority of Biowars profits from these 2 games come from?

[BLY78NOR]

Hizoka003 wrote...

Now that Wow has been brought up... that is am example of the most successful RPG ever yes its an MMORPG but its still an RPG... and there is the fact that it make Blizz more in 1 month the ME2 will make for BioWare total

Since WoW is apparently the oppitomy of gamedesign everyone else should just throw every creative fiber in their bodies out the window and make WoW clones?


I like where this is going, don't be creative lol

[MarloMarlo]

Hizoka003 wrote...
you want a shooter... not an RPG mass effect is supposed to be a RPG, but its nothing but a shooter with dialog choices

And ME1 was a worse shooter (than ME2) with dialogue choices. Is worse combat supposed to make a game a better RPG? Do location damage, limited ammo, the reduced need to pause the game to use powers and squad members with AI that doesn't cause them to shoot endlessly into the back of your head or into boxes make a game less of an RPG?

Or is there some other reason you think ME1 is a better RPG than ME2 that somehow has something to do with the combat mechanics rather than role playing and that you constantly fail to argue for?

[Hizoka003]

BLY78NOR wrote...

Khavos wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

Their games are targeted at a competely different audience

Who're they targeting?

Who's Bioware targeting?

Seeing as how Blizzard only make PC games it's pretty clear who their target audience is while ME was a 360 game ported to PCs later

Where do you think the majority of Biowars profits from these 2 games come from?

lets look at your ignorance a moment... first they were both made concurrently second DAO was made for PC then adapted to XBox and third SW:TOR will be PC only

RPGs are best suited for PCs now... hell PS3 and XBox lose footing every day in the console market to the Wii... it will not be long before games start going back to PC.. hell PC is where it is at now because consoles are out dated and limiting game makers...

[lukandroll]

MarloMarlo wrote...

Hizoka003 wrote...
you want a shooter... not an RPG mass effect is supposed to be a RPG, but its nothing but a shooter with dialog choices

And ME1 was a worse shooter (than ME2) with dialogue choices. Is worse combat supposed to make a game a better RPG? Do location damage, limited ammo, the reduced need to pause the game to use powers and squad members with AI that doesn't cause them to shoot endlessly into the back of your head or into boxes make a game less of an RPG?

Or is there some other reason you think ME1 is a better RPG than ME2 that somehow has something to do with the combat mechanics rather than role playing and that you constantly fail to argue for?

Dude you are in a topic that CLEARLY expecifies "RPG" in its title, and you keep coming to the shooter elements, STOP

[BLY78NOR]

lukandroll wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

Hizoka003 wrote...

BLY78NOR wrote...

DKnightPortela wrote...

Hizoka003 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

no you fall into the category of small minded peopel who refuse to believe that a game can actualy be both and that its impossible to ROLE PLAY (which is the defining term of an RPG) without tons of pointless options and 300 different skills that arent needed. What defines an RPG is the ability to role play a character not if you have to drink water 3 times a day to stay alive or if you can spend 80 hours tryign to drive up a hill in your rover to get to a deposit of some random x mineral. Those things are simply periphial improvements to an RPG they are not what makes a game an RPG or not.

You cling to the idea that ME 1 was such a superior RPG when it has very little that ME 2 does not the "exploration" is meaniningless as you are exploring the same thing over and over and over and you find the same thing over and over and over, theres like 6-7 actualy unique things to be found in the entire universe across all the planets that are not related to a quest.

You speficialy state that ME 2 has no large cities when it clearly has both illium AND the citadel both of which are larger or of the same size than the ONLY large city in ME 1 which is the citadel. As for the flotilla perhaps you should take some time to actualy explore the lore surounding the quarians to answer your own question on why you only go there once.

there is a big differance in an RPG and a Shooter with dialog choices... i agree we do not need eleventy billion item drops... but at the same time you can get every armor peice in game before you do anything else... RPGs are about evolving your charater, making your charater your own... ME2 does not do that.. by the end of the game every player has the same everything, you just swap out a handful of skills....

Agree 100%. Thats why i will never buy more products from Bioware before time and even ever if they dont get their heads straight and stop making "fashion" games and go back to the inovative and epic world making they started with.

God forbid games actually evolve right? just keep making the same game over and over to keep a handful of loot and grind purists happy

thats just it the game did not evolve... it devolved into a mindless shooter

That's purely subjective and largely depneds on what YOU want out of the game, it's amazing to me that people can't just enjoy something for what it is rather then **** and moan endlessly about what it's not.

What i got was an RPG with Gears of war quality combat, i'd call that evolution from the days where combat was an after thought
Your actual skill isn't definded by numbers anymore, but you can still train and evolve powers that make your life a lot easier. ME2 hits that sweet spot where nothing really feels like comprimise anymore like combat did in the first game

If I want to play a shooter, I'd play some EPIC or ID game, Crysis, or any other action packed game...
If i want to play a BioWare game labeled as "RPG" I DO want to play a BioWare RPG, not some shooter

Then i suggest you give Dragon age a try, i must have missed the unwritten law that every game Bioware makes needs to follow a strick code of gameplay.

I Wish i could have seen some of the faces around here when Jade Empire came out lol

[Kosmiker]

A better inventory please, not the total lack of it.



And customization.



And weapon stats.

[Sidney]

Hizoka003 wrote...

Now that Wow has been brought up... that is am example of the most successful RPG ever yes its an MMORPG but its still an RPG... and there is the fact that it make Blizz more in 1 month the ME2 will make for BioWare total

For a guy mouthing off about RPG's to defend WoW as an RPG is, well, laughable. Seriously, you don't want a role playing game you want a character leveling and inventory collecting game because playing a role isn't what that world is about.

I wish to god I knew why so many RPG'ers, and people who are supposedly hard core RPGers, are so desperately lost in game mechanics. If I took MW2 and gave each solider a STR, DEX, and CON score and allowed you to gather guns from dead people and outfit your squaddies with tutus and AK-47's that still would not be an RPG because there is no role you play, no character you drive in that story but yet by all these twisted definitions I see running about it would magically be an RPG while ME2 still wouldn't be. It is pitful and sad.

[Khavos]

BLY78NOR wrote...

Seeing as how Blizzard only make PC games it's pretty clear who their target audience is while ME was a 360 game ported to PCs later

Where do you think the majority of Biowars profits from these 2 games come from?

So you're saying that Bioware targets console gamers and Blizzard targets PC gamers?  I won't disagree with that.  The ME series is certainly quite simplified, it's obvious which system they were designing for.

I more meant the type of gamer, though, rather than preferred platform. 

[Khavos]

Sidney wrote...

For a guy mouthing off about RPG's to defend WoW as an RPG is, well, laughable. Seriously, you don't want a role playing game you want a character leveling and inventory collecting game because playing a role isn't what that world is about.

I wish to god I knew why so many RPG'ers, and people who are supposedly hard core RPGers, are so desperately lost in game mechanics. If I took MW2 and gave each solider a STR, DEX, and CON score and allowed you to gather guns from dead people and outfit your squaddies with tutus and AK-47's that still would not be an RPG because there is no role you play, no character you drive in that story but yet by all these twisted definitions I see running about it would magically be an RPG while ME2 still wouldn't be. It is pitful and sad.

Actually, you're kind of incorrect.  You'd have a few roles.  Roach and Martinez spring to mind.  They certainly both drive the story.  All you're lacking is dialogue options which get you to the exact same place no matter how you choose to handle them in terms of the plot, and you're set.  You'd already have more customization inherent in MW2 than in ME2 to boot.

[medlish]

What I don't care about:

-Stats

-Inventory



What I DO care about:

-Dialogue

-Decisions



Also more exploration would be nice but is not a must. Actually ME battles are a bit crappy so I'm mostly positive about the change.

[MarloMarlo]

lukandroll wrote...
Dude you are in a topic that CLEARLY expecifies "RPG" in its title, and you keep coming to the shooter elements, STOP

Because he's clearly complaining about the shooter elements -- both the guy I'm replying to specifically and the OP. Or are they actually extolling the virtues of ME2s shooter mechanics in "a topic that CLEARLY expecifies 'RPG' in its title?" And I'm arguing that differences in combat have nothing to do with if the game is a better or worse RPG, and how their arguments about the shooter mechanics are irrelevant. Because, you know, the title of this thread "CLEARLY expecifies RPG in its title." START paying attention.

[Sidney]

Khavos wrote...

Actually, you're kind of incorrect.  You'd have a few roles.  Roach and Martinez spring to mind.  They certainly both drive the story.  All you're lacking is dialogue options which get you to the exact same place no matter how you choose to handle them in terms of the plot, and you're set.  You'd already have more customization inherent in MW2 than in ME2 to boot.

...and here we see the problem. Names <> roles. The role has to create changes in the stroyline. Again, the mute protagonist of Bioshock is a "role" but, and this is the whole point of the game, he has no free-will in the game. No one in MW2 has any free-will in the game. Gordon Freeman has no real free will. Shep does.

You can try the "it all goes the same place" to which I then ask you to produce any CRPG that is an RPG then. BG2 - all roads lead to freeing Imoen and then fighting Irencius. KOTOR all roads lead to the the Star Forge. JE, all roads lead to your master, DOA all roads lead to the Archdemon.

[DKnightPortela]

BLY78NOR wrote...

DKnightPortela wrote...

Hizoka003 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

no you fall into the category of small minded peopel who refuse to believe that a game can actualy be both and that its impossible to ROLE PLAY (which is the defining term of an RPG) without tons of pointless options and 300 different skills that arent needed. What defines an RPG is the ability to role play a character not if you have to drink water 3 times a day to stay alive or if you can spend 80 hours tryign to drive up a hill in your rover to get to a deposit of some random x mineral. Those things are simply periphial improvements to an RPG they are not what makes a game an RPG or not.

You cling to the idea that ME 1 was such a superior RPG when it has very little that ME 2 does not the "exploration" is meaniningless as you are exploring the same thing over and over and over and you find the same thing over and over and over, theres like 6-7 actualy unique things to be found in the entire universe across all the planets that are not related to a quest.

You speficialy state that ME 2 has no large cities when it clearly has both illium AND the citadel both of which are larger or of the same size than the ONLY large city in ME 1 which is the citadel. As for the flotilla perhaps you should take some time to actualy explore the lore surounding the quarians to answer your own question on why you only go there once.

there is a big differance in an RPG and a Shooter with dialog choices... i agree we do not need eleventy billion item drops... but at the same time you can get every armor peice in game before you do anything else... RPGs are about evolving your charater, making your charater your own... ME2 does not do that.. by the end of the game every player has the same everything, you just swap out a handful of skills....

Agree 100%. Thats why i will never buy more products from Bioware before time and even ever if they dont get their heads straight and stop making "fashion" games and go back to the inovative and epic world making they started with.

God forbid games actually evolve right? just keep making the same game over and over to keep a handful of loot and grind purists happy

You made me laugh when you said it evolved... Im still wipping my tears of laughing so hard. Thanks i needed to laugh. 

The only think i saw evolved was the shooter mechanics that while better and much awaited can be much more if they want to, party members personnel stories were very good if not the strongest point in the game but it stops there as the good points of ME2, the rest is pure .

[Parallax Demon]

ME1: RPG > Shooter

ME2: RPG< Shooter



I hope for:

ME3: RPG = Shooter



Like ME2, but still miss some of the things from the original.

[Sidney]

medlish wrote...

What I don't care about:
-Stats
-Inventory

What I DO care about:
-Dialogue
-Decisions

Also more exploration would be nice but is not a must. Actually ME battles are a bit crappy so I'm mostly positive about the change.

1000x this. Take out the time I should invest in the scanning and add more dialog for the NPC's. Dump the time I'd take doing inventory management and let me have more decisions to make.

[Hizoka003]

it seems people no longer know what an RPG is because they don't seem to make good ones anymore

[Khavos]

Sidney wrote...


...and here we see the problem. Names roles. The role has to create changes in the stroyline. Again, the mute protagonist of Bioshock is a "role" but, and this is the whole point of the game, he has no free-will in the game. No one in MW2 has any free-will in the game. Gordon Freeman has no real free will. Shep does.

You can try the "it all goes the same place" to which I then ask you to produce any CRPG that is an RPG then. BG2 - all roads lead to freeing Imoen and then fighting Irencius. KOTOR all roads lead to the the Star Forge. JE, all roads lead to your master, DOA all roads lead to the Archdemon.

Shep has free will regarding who he screws - to a point.  He has free will regarding if he's going to drive the plot going the Paragon or the Renegade route.  That's about it.

If those things are important to you, then all MW2 needs, like I said, is a dialogue wheel and the ability to stop Soap and Ghost from torturing guys with the assurance that feeding them cookies and milk will work just as well. 

[fanman72]

No, you are wrong. ME2 was much better than ME1, period.



I would like a little more dialogue from my teammates, however

[TJSolo]

Sidney wrote...

medlish wrote...

What I don't care about:
-Stats
-Inventory

What I DO care about:
-Dialogue
-Decisions

Also more exploration would be nice but is not a must. Actually ME battles are a bit crappy so I'm mostly positive about the change.

1000x this. Take out the time I should invest in the scanning and add more dialog for the NPC's. Dump the time I'd take doing inventory management and let me have more decisions to make.

Inventory management is a choice. You could pick one armor and simple mods and never touch your inventory again while others have the choice to sort through the inventory as they please.

Obliterating said choice no matter how illusionary;is the problem.