207 réponses à ce sujet

[RBDneezy06]

[quote]reepneep wrote...

[quote]TJSolo wrote...

Your level of interaction within an inventory if fully up to the you.
You wouldn't need to muddle around or get frustrated with trying to sort through the inventory. You could just sell it all if you want creds.
[/quote]
This statement is preposterous.  You are REQIRED to play the loot game in ME1.  If you don't mess with the inventory at all, you can't finish the game because you're stuck with the tier 1 gear.

At a bare minimum you have to sort through you inventory once every few hours to make sure everyone is using the best gear you have available and then liquidate the rest.  A quick job of this takes around half an hour with the seven squaddies from me1.  Over the course of the whole game, thats several hours of swapping virtually identical parts just so you aren't completely overpowered by standard enemies.[/quote]

No, a player could choose to take a a passive approach to inventory; only selling when needed,  buying some new stuff, and only equipping the people in the squad you use.

Merely stating that it takes time to properly equip yourself and the squad is not a negative in and of itself. Some people choose to take time away from progressing in the story to do some customization illusionary or not.

[quote]
Answering a why question is typically too subjective. If you don't like
something I could explain why I like it but you wouldn't agree. Also
there are already posts giving reason why some people enjoy sort,
shifting, and managing inventory.
[/quote]
I like tinkering with things.  I have no problem with inventory management as long as it serves a purpose beyond swapping out tier 1 guns for tier 2 guns.  ME1's loot system was terrible in this regard.  The guns weren't any different from eachother other than a linear progression in all the stat categories.  The only worthwhile thing from ME1's version of lootris was the equipment mods because it was the only thing that could make a piece of equipment genuinely different from another.  All the rest was worthless busywork.
[/quote]

And removing the choice to play lootris in your words didn't improve or add to variety. Calling ME1 loot system terrible is exaggeration and overstating. Too much loot at times but the system in and of it self is not terrible.

[quote]
Finding garbage items is fodder just to sell and save money for future purchases.
[/quote]
If they're garbage items, why not just give the player money instead of wasting their time by forcing them to sort through all said garbage?  After all, you don't get any where near enough money to buy anything unless you sort and sell all the vendor trash, which has no reason to exist other than to be sold for money.
[/quote]
The loot in ME1 wasa random so you have to get drops and the chances of getting good drops was just higher. The garbage items are subjective to what you have and what dropped.
Buying and selling trash loot to afford the good stuff, congrats you have discovered the timesink that is the ME1 economy.

[quote]
[quote]
Again this is mostly about choice; Some people are bothered by the lack of choices in ME2.
[/quote]
Like I've said, they force you to play the timewasting loot game in ME1.  There is no choice on that count unless you never plan on finishing the game.

Equipment mods should have been kept, discrete pieces of gear are better off gone unless they were going to do somthing better than linearly progressing tiered gear .  More complexity in the combat and character development systems would have been greatly appreciated.  ME1 -> ME2 is two steps forward, one step back.

In my not so humble opinion, of course.

[/quote]

There is no forcing the player to spend more time than they wanted in gear.
The end game choice of gear is the same kind of choice at the end of all games; wearing the best you have access to.

Modifié par RBDneezy06, 08 février 2010 - 12:41 .

[juxtaposedjoker]

Streamlined battle system from ME2+some more melee options+the rpg dialog character interaction from ME1=win. 

Though, for the final game in the series, I hope that they do more to bring us into the wonderful universe that they have created and give us an even more indepth look at the characters.  Especially Shepard whose resolve is taken to the edge with the emotionality of a robot.  Shepard is great when caring for others but it would be nice to see a little bit more vaunerability.  There should be a moment in the game wherein Shepards resolve is broken and for once his crew/friends help him/her!  We see so many other characters going through a catharic experiance yet it seems like Shepard only gets this in the romance scenes.  I'd like Shepard to faulter a bit so the character seems more human. 

In ME1, we see this bit when the...crap...no spoilers...um...when Shepard is sitting on the ground in front of the weapons lockers.  I hope describing Shepard somewhere on the ship doesn't get this deleted!  Those who have played ME1 should know what I mean though.  In ME2 it occurs just as briefly after meeting your human LI from ME1 but these short scenes are not enough.  There are also gaps in ME2 where this sort of emotionality on Shepards part needed to be there. I'm not talking a cry fest just a simple line of dialog where the hero is slightly vaunerable with those he/she feels safe around would be nice.  Like in the scene where Shepard meets with Liara.  I won't give any more details but there was a total lack of emotionality whether Liara was your LI from ME1 or not.  Again even a brief line of dialog wherein Shepard laments to someone hell anyone would have been nice. 

The best heros have complicated motivations.  They are forced to make some decsions quickly and others after rapt contemplation and we don't really see the latter here.  I would like to see a more thought out representation of Shepard that makes Shepard a more complex character.  As it stands now, most of Shepards complexity comes out of the various descions that effect the game but it would be nice to see Shepard react to the consequences.  It would also be nice to see Shepard have more of a reaction with the crew members whose replies are often way more interesting thatn Shepards initiating inquries. 

So yes more RPG more character development more complexity for Shepard!

[Terror_K]

Draconis6666 wrote...

ME 2 has more weapons than ME 1 because ME 1 just has 4 weapons with 10 versions that have slightly different stats, its logical to assume that if ME 3 follows the trend it would have more weapons that are actualy unique weapons. 

It really doesn't. It has more weapon classes, though half of those go to the individual heavy weapons, which I don't really count as being a class if they're the only weapon in said category. ME1 had more weapons... it really did. I seriously don't get those who put down ME1 for having 4 weapon classes and defend the ME2 system where there are more classes but less actual weapons. Sure, the weapons are more different and unique, but it really doesn't feel like there's more here when you're playing the game. Even if ME1 had the illusion of choice with it's many samey weapons that basically got slightly better as you progressed that illusion is far more than ME2 ever gives you with its limited arsenal. At least ME1 also allowed weapon modding, which ME2 doesn't even do.

[Hizoka003]

i have played as male shep and female shep in ME2 and they both feel fake... there is never a question if your going to win or not in ME2 like there was with ME1... with ME1 there was suspence... ME2 was just another day at work

[lukandroll]

Draconis6666 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

ME2's problem wasn't the lack of an inventory system so much as a lack of inventory. There were only a small handful of weapons in total, almost half of which you started off with anyway, and most of the rest not being hard to find. The whole way weapons were handled in ME2 I feel is the biggest disappointment of the entire game. The weapons lacked any real stats, there aren't enough of them, there wasn't as much customisation as there initially seemed given what the devs said, and they are by no means as personal or unique as we were led to believe. You don't even mod the guns, you simply research upgrades. There's simply not enough choice and the weapons are too simple... it really isn't much different from a standard shooter in this regard.

So, we don't need an inventory system like ME1's for ME3 to make it better and more of an RPG, but we do need a greater degree of weapons and armour. Not a huge amount of mostly-the-same items as in the first game, but even just having a half a dozen of each type of weapon with some visible statistical strengths and weaknesses and different abilities, along with some proper weapon modding. ME2 suffers from the exact opposite problem that ME1 did when it comes to this, and the system really was too dumbed down.

ME 2 has more weapons than ME 1 because ME 1 just has 4 weapons with 10 versions that have slightly different stats, its logical to assume that if ME 3 follows the trend it would have more weapons that are actualy unique weapons.

Dude, even Resident Evil 5 has more weapons that ME2, which also has a REAL upgrade system, where you spend money on the weapons STATS, thats a "RPG" mechanic and far better than whatever crap upgrade system ME2 implemented

That's what the ****ing shooter fans want??? Why even bother playing Mass Effect, why don't you just play another  GeOW clone instead of supporting this bastardization of the genre

[Sibbwolf]

lukandroll wrote...

Dude, even Resident Evil 5 has more weapons that ME2, which also has a REAL upgrade system, where you spend money on the weapons STATS, thats a "RPG" mechanic and far better than whatever crap upgrade system ME2 implemented

You do realise that the "crap upgrade system" in ME2 is spend resources and money to upgrade weapon stats, right?

[Sagenexus20]

I like ME2, it has a good story, the combats better, and the upgrade system is a good idea...



Oh and Resident evil 5 sucked, so meh.

[MPaBkaTa123]

Hizoka003 wrote...

i have played as male shep and female shep in ME2 and they both feel fake... there is never a question if your going to win or not in ME2 like there was with ME1... with ME1 there was suspence... ME2 was just another day at work

I beg to differ.ME1 was really good however suspense is something it lacked, especially at the end where you are free to do side quests with no penalty instead of going to Illos.

To the people talking about weapon variety in ME1: What weapon variety? There were basically four weapons with 3 or 4 different skins and the only difference between them was damage and overheat rate. Also while i miss the ability to turn my shotgun into a insta-kill cannon it removes the problem of changing Tungsten Rounds VI with VII every 30 min.

[SurfaceBeneath]

Hizoka003 wrote...

An RPG is more about being in the world of the game then just fighting from point a to point B... if you really want to experiance what an RPG is go play FF7 or Chrono Trigger, yes they are very old games now but they are the best examples of RPGs ever done... even KOTOR if you need something mor recent

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[lord magnious]

Want:



Party Armor (stats included) So that means some sort of DECENT inventory.



More choices



Weapon variety





Don't want:



Weapon stats (I.E. leveling up accuracy from 2% to 12 %)

[Sibbwolf]

lord magnious wrote...

Want:

Party Armor (stats included) So that means some sort of DECENT inventory.

Expanding the ME2's armour customisation system to include the squad, perhaps?

[MPaBkaTa123]

lord magnious wrote...

Want:

1.Party Armor (stats included) So that means some sort of DECENT inventory.

2.More choices

3.Weapon variety


Don't want:

4.Weapon stats (I.E. leveling up accuracy from 2% to 12 %)

I agree with 1. screw stats but let us customize party armor like we customize our own in ME2. 2. is also good some of  the choices in ME2 were subtle and not really easy to access. We have weapon variety though i would not refuse being able to personalize our weapons like we can with armor.

4. Yes leveling weapons skills in ME1 was horrible, a War Hero should be able to aim a freaking pistol .

[lord magnious]

Sibbwolf wrote...

lord magnious wrote...

Want:

Party Armor (stats included) So that means some sort of DECENT inventory.

Expanding the ME2's armour customisation system to include the squad, perhaps?

That too, but if it's not in there I really wouldn't care.

It really comes down to combat hardsuits, I can't express how irritating it was to see some of my squad members (Jacob, Miranda, Thane even Mordin) walking around on a planet that has a tempreture of ninety-nine degress celsius  combined with a atmosphere of ethane and just wearing an oxygen mask. Nothing is protecting their skin or eyes, that was the MAJOR immersion braker for me.

Modifié par lord magnious, 08 février 2010 - 10:42 .

[Sibbwolf]

It really comes down to combat hardsuits, I can't express how irritating it was to see some of my squad members (Jacob, Miranda, Thane, even Mordin) walking around on a planet that has a tempreture of ninety-nine degress celsius  combined with a atmosphere of ethane.

Agreed.

We don't need "loot" , just the ability to give them hardsuits.

[lord magnious]

Sibbwolf wrote...

It really comes down to combat hardsuits, I can't express how irritating it was to see some of my squad members (Jacob, Miranda, Thane, even Mordin) walking around on a planet that has a tempreture of ninety-nine degress celsius  combined with a atmosphere of ethane.

Agreed.

We don't need "loot" , just the ability to give them hardsuits.

Yes.


There was nothing wrong with their casual clothes,  but that can be left on the  Normandy. Or maybe, have unique types of armor for each type of party member.

Since Thane is an assassin I really can't see him in a heavy duty combat suit, but a jacket isn't goin' to protect him from an acidic atmosphere.
 

Modifié par lord magnious, 08 février 2010 - 10:52 .

[asaiasai]

More RPG please.



thank you



Asai

[kraze07]

Definitely more RPG in ME3, but I'd be satisfied if they just kept ME2's upgrade system for weapons and armor while adding in a stat system for powering up abilities.

[Amikae]

I believe these threads need to be locked. They clearly are not intended for constructive converstaion. The same few people, who talk like kids and dont own the game, troll the same topics and decent people try to converse with them, but its not working. And then these topics turn in to tons of pages of idiotic spam. And gee people get the impression that there are really many people unhappy with Mass Effect 2, which is not true.

You open a topic on RPG's, yet i haven't seen much discussion on the RPG part. Either be constructive or dont troll. And people please stop feeding the trolls.

[uzivatel]

tl;dr

I think Mass Effect 2 is actually improvement over Mass Effect 1, but it needs more polish.

I doubt anyone misses tons of useless armor and weapon skins, but it would be nice to have few more weapons that would feel different. In ME2 its like every new weapon is superior to its predecessor in every way, while shooters usually have many weapons that are slightly different to suit different game styles. The armor pieces should have bigger impact on the stats ... and team members should wear some armor.

As for skills, I really like the changes in Mass Effect 2, but there is room for improvement. I like the lack of armor and dialog skills, I certainly do not miss weapon skills (there is Concussive Shot, which does the same job) and the new skill point progression is welcome as it makes us think about where to invest skill points.

That said, there is not much point to upgrade many of the skills as the difference is really small. Overload is good as every new rank adds something new, but most of the time its just few more damage points or seconds. The ammo skills could be cut in favour of ammo upgrades (added to each characters weapons only during weapon select screen). Maybe the warp ammo should remain skill, but the there should be no squad variant.

Oh, and team members should have more skills to choose from, but not necessarily more skill points to distribute. The thing is, there are way too many team members in ME2, to distinguish them, each has to have different skills ... but at the same time there are too few skills. The solution would be to use fewer team members - like 8 (there are actually more reasons to have fewer team members). At the same time it would be nice, if each team member would feel different. One quick idea based on ME2 Tali:

1 character skill (Quarian Machinist)
1 unlockable character skill (Energy Drain)
1 character specific variant of general skill (AI hacking with big bonus against Geth)
2-3 general skills (Combat Drone, Overload, ...)

One more thing about dialogues ... how about having the blue / red option available all the time, but characters without enough paragon / renegade being able to fail? Paragon character trying to use renegade option to intimidate someone could fail (with the intimidated one laughing in his face), but he should be able to try. The color would make us know that the option is risky, but we should be able to choose it and try it. I realize this may be too hard to implement as it would require huge amount of extra text and voices for the failures.

Modifié par uzivatel, 12 février 2010 - 02:21 .

[LostHH]

Came across a promo of the boxart for Mass Effect 3  

[Coldcall01]

camcon2100 wrote...

This Topic is for people who feel the rpg elements were stripped down and want them back. What you do is post if you agree ME2 was lacking in Customazation and would like to see more personalazation and want them back in the finale!!!

We will fight for the Lost abilities!!!!!!!

yes i'd love to see some of the RPG mechanisms re-introduced otherwise it just becomes a boring shootfest.

It will be interesting to see what they do for ME3 because they will have gained many new shooter fans and Bioware may decide that they gained more than they lost by dumbing the game down.

[kraze07]

Amikae wrote...

I believe these threads need to be locked. They clearly are not intended for constructive converstaion. The same few people, who talk like kids and dont own the game, troll the same topics and decent people try to converse with them, but its not working. And then these topics turn in to tons of pages of idiotic spam. And gee people get the impression that there are really many people unhappy with Mass Effect 2, which is not true.

You open a topic on RPG's, yet i haven't seen much discussion on the RPG part. Either be constructive or dont troll. And people please stop feeding the trolls.

I just ignore the trolls now. I can understand why some people complaining and they should have the right to voice their opinion, but others don't seem to think people should have the right to give negative feedback which causes most of these idiotic arguements to start. They need to realize that there will always be people out there who won't agree with the way they feel about things.

[RavenDAO]

For me the rpg elements were a huge step forward for the ME series and rpg's in general.
What people fail to see is that less skills does not necessariy mean less rpg. For me the me2 system is much more immersive because of the upgrades/skills/weapons system. When I started out as a vanguard I only had three weapons to chose from, 5 skills and no upgrades. This is pretty limited, but during the game you actually find upgrades, weapons and skills (loyalty missions) that expand your possibilies. This is a much more realistic and rewarding experience. Every mission in me2 gave you something cool to improve/customize your character. Wheter it's just leveling up, a new bonus talent, a new weapon, a new upgarde schematic or all of the above, every mission in ME2 is highly rewarding. Me1 was always the same, all your skils were locked from the beginning and all you would find were weapons/armors that played the same only with slightly different stats. Also leveling up hardly improved you other then some meaningless stats. What I also loved were the branching skill trees: heavy charge or area charge for example. Maybe you could expand more on that though.

On the inventory: my character finds three weapons, 2 sets of armor, and alot of other crap and stuffs them is in his backpack while on an important dangerous mission? Thats immersion breaking for me. I know rpg's have used this for centuries, thats why the upgrade/weapon system in ME2 is so good, it offers customization in a realistic immersive way. It's just that people are generally not progressive when it comes to things they (learned to) love. The system is not perfect, especially the armor system didnt have alot of customization, but for me replacing the inventory was one of the best design decisions.

Next to the rpg system, the implementation is also better then in ME1, I found the classes to be more unique, more meaningfull and more fun to play.

[Hizoka003]

people want everything spoon fed to them now... RPGs are not made for the typical retarded gamer... yet thats what people seem to want... they want something simple and easy that even a person who look up to forrest gump can understand... if you want that play Halo... i want an RPG i don't want something that can be easily done in a weekend

[lord magnious]

Hizoka003 wrote...

people want everything spoon fed to them now... RPGs are not made for the typical retarded gamer... yet thats what people seem to want... they want something simple and easy that even a person who look up to forrest gump can understand... if you want that play Halo... i want an RPG i don't want something that can be easily done in a weekend

ME1 could be done in a weekend, sidequest included.