207 réponses à ce sujet

[MPaBkaTa123]

What they mean is that making modern games as thorough and long as say BG2 as someone else mentioned would make them nigh-unplayable due to the ridiculous space on your computer required. NOT that new games are much better, NOT that it was hard for them to read.

[Schneidend]

Hizoka003 wrote...

so chosing a differnt cosmetic that has next to 0 bearing on the game is a choice? you can complete the entire game on insantiy without ever changing your armor, but thats a huge choice...

In my opinion, what makes an RPG different from a game that has a great story but isn't an RPG, like Metal Gear Solid 4 for instance, is the inclusion of statistical character building. You can't do any building with Solid Snake. He's already good at every gameplay element the game offers (weapon recoil, weapon reload, shotgun fire rate, ability to slit throats, etc.). It's purely dependent on the player to make use of his skills. With Shepard, on the other hand, what you wear, what weapons of the same type you use, and what you spend your skill points on has a clear affect on your performance. Even if 5% extra shielding or health doesn't seem significant, it can be the difference between Harbinger stun-killing you and making it to cover.

Besides, as I said, the weapon system in ME2 still presents a greater range of actual choices than ME2 did. There was no reason to use the Avenger X if you had a Spectre Assault Rifle X. In ME2, however, the Avenger's greater spare ammo capacity makes it no longer completely worthless once you've acquired the Vindicator.

[Doug84]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Doug84 wrote...

Draconis6666 wrote...

Could you explain to me why you think you lost "customization" when all you had in ME 1 was 20 guns that used one of two models and had no reason to use any of them but specter X once you got it or 20 armors that are all useless that basicaly used the same armor model in different colors and 3 that actualy have stats worth using which still used the same model with different colors? If your talking about the characters themselves i guess i can sort of see your point but even then aside from characters created with bonus skills you had enough skill points to max 80% of your skills.

I'm sure this comes off as kind of a "lol ur dumb" post but thats not the intention i'm honestly trying to understand why some people think that lots of choices of the same thing equals more customization.


Edit: I should point out I'm not disagreeing with you there is a fundamental lack of alot of RPG elements in Mass 2 and ME 3 really should have more I just dont understand how people think customization has gotten worse from ME 1

Agreed - I don't get why people want the old armour and inventory system back to be honest - it was a micromanagement hell. And RPG == Role-Playing Game, not stat based game - alot of people seem to think "Stat based combat == RPG".

You can thank JRPGs for that. I've actually done more role playing in this game then another I can think of.

Indeedie. JRPGs are not real RPGs, IMO, because you aren't playing the role, you're carting the player around. Its an adventure game rather than an RPG, which is fine and all - I'm not a fan of JRPGs myself, and if you are, good-good, enjoy - just don't tell me "W" RPGs aren't really RPGs or are poorly written or whatever because they are based on Japanese folkore rather than Western folkore.

[WillieStyle]

Hizoka003 wrote...

You honestly think a 20 hour game with spoken dialog is better then a 100 hour game with written dialog? Are you that lazy you cannot read a bit of dialog and picture it in your mind?

ME2 was longer than 20 hours and BG2 was shorter than 100 hours.
Also, laziness has nothing to do with it.  Video games are a multi-sensory medium.  There is merit in having talented actors voice in-game characters.
Finally, sound and video allow authors to develop characters more effectively than written text alone.  Mordin, for instance, would be a less interesting character if non of his dialogue was voiced.  His unique manner of speaking and mannerisms are a big part of his appeal.

Modifié par WillieStyle, 08 février 2010 - 05:56 .

[Amikae]

Took me around 33 hours on my first playtrough of ME2, on Veteran. Could have been even more if i wasn't that expeditive. And i know of people who played over 40 hours on their first playtrough. So not only is this game superb, its also pretty long. Its not my fault that people who complain about "the RPG element" are actually the people skipping the RPG and playing trough the game for 20 hours.  

[reepneep]

nicodeemus327 wrote...

Doug84 wrote...
Agreed - I don't get why people want the old armour and inventory system back to be honest - it was a micromanagement hell. And RPG == Role-Playing Game, not stat based game - alot of people seem to think "Stat based combat == RPG".

You can thank JRPGs for that. I've actually done more role playing in this game then another I can think of.

No, you can thank good old AD&D for that.  D&D was built directly from the tabletop wargames of it's era when Gygax & Co. mused: 'Hey, wouldn't it be cool to play with individual heroes instead of armies?'.  D&D was always extremely stat heavy and combat focused.  That only really changed with the release of 3rd edition, and even then...

PnPRPGs, which serve as the basis for both the J and W varieties have always had trouble deciding exactly what they were: Improvisational Theatre vs. Tabletop Wargame.  D&D is clearly meant to be played as the latter, given the dearth of rules governing anything non-combat related.  JRPGs are cast on that model, with a non-interactive plot layered on top of it.

[Schneidend]

reepneep wrote...

No, you can thank good old AD&D for that.  D&D was built directly from the tabletop wargames of it's era when Gygax & Co. mused: 'Hey, wouldn't it be cool to play with individual heroes instead of armies?'.  D&D was always extremely stat heavy and combat focused.  That only really changed with the release of 3rd edition, and even then...

PnPRPGs, which serve as the basis for both the J and W varieties have always had trouble deciding exactly what they were: Improvisational Theatre vs. Tabletop Wargame.  D&D is clearly meant to be played as the latter, given the dearth of rules governing anything non-combat related.  JRPGs are cast on that model, with a non-interactive plot layered on top of it.

This.

[BComp272]

Hizoka003 wrote...

i have played as male shep and female shep in ME2 and they both feel fake... there is never a question if your going to win or not in ME2 like there was with ME1... with ME1 there was suspence... ME2 was just another day at work

i don't mean this to be flaming or trolling or w/e, but this quote has GOT to be one of the dumbest things i've ever heard/read. 

in ME2, Shepard and all squad members can die. PERMANENTLY. as in, they won't be in ME3. that is a LOT more suspenseful than the original (which was very suspenseful, but it wasn't a suicide mission like ME2 is)

so many of your arguments are just so off-target. an rpg is a ROLE PLAYING GAME. when i play ME2, i am playing the role of commander Shepard. so there isn't doubt that ME2 is an rpg. it's just that bioware decided to cut the crap and give you just a few guns that you would actually use (which is what ended up happening in ME1). HOW is that a devolution? sure there are ways that bioware can bring back some rpg elements that didn't necessarily need to be cut, but sometimes the hedge needs to be cut back pretty far in order for it to grow further than it did last season.

Edit: also, nicoddemus really did hit the nail on the head: The dialog options and choices are the real role play. The rest is just a way to emulate combat.

Modifié par BComp272, 08 février 2010 - 08:38 .

[LostHH]

Imagine when Fallout Vegas comes out, what would the reaction be if Obsedian(sp) have taken out the inventory and pipboy?
That's how I liken it. Don't take me wrong though, I'm loving this game.

My brother is comparing it to Deus Ex and Deus Ex : Invisible War!

Modifié par LostHH, 08 février 2010 - 08:55 .

[Schneidend]

LostHH wrote...

Imagine when Fallout Vegas comes out, what would the reaction be if Obsedian(sp) have taken out the inventory and pipboy?
That's how I liken it. Don't take me wrong though, I'm loving this game.

My brother is comparing it to Deus Ex and Deus Ex : Invisible War!

The Fallout example is completely different. The Pipboy is an in-game device. A purely non-lore menu loaded with useless crap as you had in ME1 is not part of the Mass Effect universe.

Moreover, there is still an inventory. It's just that the excess fat was removed from a juicy, well-marinated interior of meaty goodness. Vindicator vs. Pule Rifle is a choice. HMWA X vs. Avenger X is not.

[LostHH]

Maybe and I agree about the pipboy but the inventory still stands. Fair enough about HNWA Vs Avenger X but it would still be nice to have the choice of say, 4 or 5 pistols or sub machine guns than the couple you get with a few upgrades. That's all.
I guess I'm just a hoarder at heart though

Modifié par LostHH, 08 février 2010 - 09:15 .

[LostHH]

double post

Modifié par LostHH, 08 février 2010 - 09:08 .

[Schneidend]

There's no arguing that having 5 SMGs would be cooler than 2, really, but that's what sequels to sequels are for. ME2 is a great system, and using it as a base and tweaking it here and there will make ME3's development a relatively easy process. That's good for long-time fans who like the entire franchise so far.

[LostHH]

Schneidend wrote...

There's no arguing that having 5 SMGs would be cooler than 2, really, but that's what sequels to sequels are for. ME2 is a great system, and using it as a base and tweaking it here and there will make ME3's development a relatively easy process. That's good for long-time fans who like the entire franchise so far.

Yeah that's true, really looking forward to the third game. And I'm sure I read somewhere that Bioware plan to do more games within the ME universe which can go anywhere so I'm really looking forward to the future of this franchise.

[Amikae]

I must agree that they did a great job implementing all these new elements. The new inventory system is great, the upgrades are really great and useful too. Ofc we would all like a bit more variety with guns and armor, but the important thing is that the new system is amazing. It was a bold move from BioWare and it worked. Now they can improve on what they build in ME2.

[MegaMass_2000]

More exploration, game is just to linear. Krogan's home planet just screams at you explore me. Especially when you are in that Krogan vehicle that is transporting you to battle arena.

Find solution/ replacement for Mako, make home planets/ stations of squads mates little bit bigger, and it will be perfect.

Everything else (inventory, gun fights etc...) is OK.

Modifié par MegaMass_2000, 08 février 2010 - 09:17 .

[JaegerBane]

deusofnull wrote...
 I WANT to search for hours for the best wepons and armor. 

Good for you. The rest of us don't. I WANT to experience a story and to have fun playing it. I would imagine most people on here would agree.

[JaegerBane]

Schneidend wrote...

There's no arguing that having 5 SMGs would be cooler than 2, really, but that's what sequels to sequels are for. ME2 is a great system, and using it as a base and tweaking it here and there will make ME3's development a relatively easy process. That's good for long-time fans who like the entire franchise so far.

I'm hoping this will be where the DLCs will come in. We've already seen them introduce a new heavy weapon.

I don't quite know what new SMGs and pistols and whatever will be brought in (since we already have futuristic equivalents of most conventional gear) but it'll be nice to have the choice.

[droid_orat]

deusofnull wrote...

no DOUBT
Totally agree here.  I actually want to sift through my invintory selling my junk.  I WANT to search for hours for the best wepons and armor.  I want each item to be cumstomized to differnt play styles and I want the classes to be split into armor classes again.

Id still like the armor to be broken in to chest, leggs, arms etc, this would make the gear hunt all the harder,
Leave in upgrades, forces people to pick between how they get their gear and if they want to be a god character.

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pity to admit, but the ME2 has way too primitive game
mechanics comparing to one I was expecting from BW after the ME1...



They were trying to do SOMETHING, but they lost they way somewhere in the experimenting
towards creation of the Masterpiece...



disappointed...

[Demon Messiah]

MegaMass_2000 wrote...

More exploration, game is just to linear. Krogan's home planet just screams at you explore me. Especially when you are in that Krogan vehicle that is transporting you to battle arena.

Find solution/ replacement for Mako, make home planets/ stations of squads mates little bit bigger, and it will be perfect.

Everything else (inventory, gun fights etc...) is OK.

Glad I wasn't the only one who was totally disappointed that the krogan homeworld consisted of a hub smaller than my apartments living room and a couple of "loyalty mission" areas that weren't too much bigger.

Personally I thought the scan mini-game was a decent replacement for the mako side missions. Scanning just needs to "paint" the planet as you're scanning to fix it really.

One other thing i thought of adding to this debate about the rpg elements (or lack thereof) is the fact that the sidequests never really add any "side" story. In ME1 we've got Cerberus conspiracies that are all woven in and out of the main story, biotics rights movements springing up all over the place that are all related to L2 implants, as well as the normal one-off "mercenaries are holding hostages/rogue vi/eliminate the geth foothold" quests. In ME2 they're basically all one-off side missions. I think there was just the one line of quests having to do with some mercs that wasn't really interesting in the least. Side missions are suppose to expand the universe, and well, the ones in ME2 didn't really do that. It made the ME2 universe feel much smaller because it seemed like nothing else was going on in it.

[MarloMarlo]

Hizoka003 wrote...
people seem to forget that all RPGs came from D&D which had stats... people who do not want any kinda stats or inventory or anything want a shooter with dialog choices... not an RPG...

ME2 had stats and it had an inventory. Not exactly the same stats and inventory as ME1, but you still messed with numbers and you still carried gear.

Your actual complaint isn't over ME2 not being an RPG or worse than ME1. It's about ME2 simply not being ME1.

And DnD had a lot of things that ME1 and other roleplaying games don't have and don't need. Do you think RPGs are all about a specific implementation of numbers and screens rather than roleplaying? Or was your DnD reference a useless waste of everyone's time, just like your other posts?

Hizoka003 wrote...
people want everything spoon fed to them now... RPGs are not made for the typical retarded gamer... yet thats what people seem to want... they want something simple and easy that even a person who look up to forrest gump can understand... if you want that play Halo... i want an RPG i don't want something that can be easily done in a weekend

You don't even know what an RPG is, as evidenced by your description and what you consider to be the top two out there. And your incompetence is pretty much the only piece of evidence you've ever (unwittingly) presented for anything, which, not surprisingly, doesn't support anything you yourself have said. All you do is make unsupported statements while calling other people idiots when the only thing related to you that can be argued is that you don't know what you're talking about.

Nothing about ME1 was hard. And playing RPGs isn't hard. Only a typical retarded gamer thinks playing RPGs is hard. What's supposed to be hard? Do you feel special for deciding to up your sniper rifle stats by another 1-2 percentage points in damage and accuracy? Is it supposed to be hard to enjoy a well-presented game world? Do you feel like you needed special knowledge to take more than a weekend to play through any game?

Time consuming isn't hard, just time consuming. Something that can't be done over a weekend is not the automatic mark of quality you're making it out to be. Someone could make a game that required you to do 72 hours worth of math and if it made you feel like you were a person that did math, and sucked you into the world of math, it would be enough of an RPG according to your moronic arguments. Bonus points for spikey hair and no actual roleplaying.

Go ahead and try to back up anything you say. I'd love to see you fail in a more comprehensive way.

[Namons]

 I agree that more RPG is needed.  Nothing on the scale of ME1 though I did like customizing things that way but something where you can adjust loadout in the field.  Like the whole Incindiary Ammo thing taken a step back.

[Mezinger]

Hurah! More RPG = More Good! ;0) But seriously... truly bring it back!

[Ducarmel]

+1 for more ME1 rpg mechanics

[Nick Fox]

I for one feel that this franchise have lost its "soul" in this sequal. To me it feels and plays much like a "mech warrior" game (Like those but they arent rpg's). Still enjoying the game but not even close to my feelings towards the first one (not perfect but it made me care). Its like entering a twilightzone....you know the people and the universe but its just something wrong about it.
No lvl up during a mission for ex....very "rpg light" and "mech" like where one usually picks the upgrades, loadouts etc between missions. The inventory is another thing I just cant get used too....I mean the lack of it...not a single thing to sell except some stupid ID or  some package. Although I kind of like the idea of using your found resources for upgrades (should've been special ones you cant buy in a store or get as a drop for ex). The ammo thing and the fact one cant really be  in "strafe action" (except in your face Vanguard, wich I like though) makes the whole combat very static and not enjoyable at all. A mix of ME 1 and 2 in that department could make it more interesting perhaps. Where are all the skills....I love to have many to choose from so I can costumise my characther differently from how other people do and make him/her fit my style of playing, there simply isnt any freedom in that department statwise or gearwise....whats the point of having lvl's at all in this game....really ?

I second the motion for more RPG and less....shooter styled game for sure. Not liking this direction at all, not the game I hoped for. There are people who loves it too I guess, I just feel....3 out of 5 good but nothing to write home about.

Another thing that points to that there is something missing to me is the forums:

In the old forum for ME 1 there was speculations about the story for years, that wont be the case here I think

Threads about different builds etc and Armors (well not so much but more than now he he)

Character threads (For ME 2) was more common before the realese than post realse....again says something.

Now its more flaming about this and that *sigh*

Dont get me wrong still kind of like the game, but dont care and thats not a good sign. Maybe it will grow on me, we shall see. For now its good, not great not amazing etc just plain and simple good.

My 2 cents.