120 réponses à ce sujet

[casedawgz]

i HATE xenosaga. It felt like it wanted to be Firefly but just couldn't do it.

[A Killing Sound]

This is the way I view Japanese RPG's and Western RPG's. Eastern rpgs (for me anyway) were better up until the early 2000's. The last half decent one I played was Dragon Quest VIII. Now I always liked western rpgs like Fallout 1 and 2, KOTOR etc., but I didn't get into them until the real decline of JRPGS. My problem with JPRGS is predictablility. Final Fantasys have rehashed the old save the world from the big bad conspiracy too many times to count. The fact that characters are designed by anime artists does not explain why the characters are poorly developed. It's really the writers of these games, who do not understand the fact that the rest of the world does not want to play as a seventeen year old each and every game. Perhaps its marketing for a different age group, or regional preference. The fact remains that most westerners prefer a more mature game as the industy gets older.

Sorry if this was a bit of a rant.

Modifié par A Killing Sound, 08 février 2010 - 03:26 .

[Link9us]

ReDSH1FT wrote...

Are you guys retarded? Mass Effect wins by default because that game is a JRPG. Those stupid games are so obsolete now that they don't even need to be made anymore. Get off your dragonball z blankets and throw away your big breasted anime doll figurines, grow up, and play an RPG the way it was meant to be played, West style.

What rpgs games have you actually played? besides Mass effect. You sound like one of those FPS fans, that don;'t like a fantasy/fictional setting in a game. have you even checked out dragon age yet.

[Shelondias]

Y'know it's funny, all through ME2 I was thinking of the second episode of Xenosaga.

Maybe it was cause the environments got shinier and more epic than they were in each of the first installments.

Meeting old characters too

[Ryzaki]

Am I the only one who finds Kingdom Hearts to be ridiculously deep once you bother digging beneath the surface? Its really sad and telling. But that's probably just me XD



Xenosaga = confusing as heck storyline though. But yeah I had to playthrough 1 and 3 (couldn't stand 2 so just watched the cutscenes on youtube) at least 3 times before I started understanding wth was going on.



Also sad ending is sad. My poor Jin. :"(

[Phoenixblight]

Ryzaki wrote...

Am I the only one who finds Kingdom Hearts to be ridiculously deep once you bother digging beneath the surface? Its really sad and telling. But that's probably just me XD

Xenosaga = confusing as heck storyline though. But yeah I had to playthrough 1 and 3 (couldn't stand 2 so just watched the cutscenes on youtube) at least 3 times before I started understanding wth was going on.

Also sad ending is sad. My poor Jin. :"(

Not the only one. I absolutely love the KH series too bad its moved on to the handheld systems.

[mmu1]

The Xenosaga story is, (IMNSHO) meaningless pseudo-philosophical drivel, the gameplay, like in most JRPGs, is rather too abstract for my taste, and the game has no character interaction to speak of. Watching "your" character talk to another character in endless cutscenes is not my definition of "interaction".

...in other words, ME is better.

[Ryzaki]

Phoenixblight wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Am I the only one who finds Kingdom Hearts to be ridiculously deep once you bother digging beneath the surface? Its really sad and telling. But that's probably just me XD

Xenosaga = confusing as heck storyline though. But yeah I had to playthrough 1 and 3 (couldn't stand 2 so just watched the cutscenes on youtube) at least 3 times before I started understanding wth was going on.

Also sad ending is sad. My poor Jin. :"(

Not the only one. I absolutely love the KH series too bad its moved on to the handheld systems.

Oh yeah speaking of which I need to get Birth By Sleep when it finally comes out in english.

Even if I already spoiled the japanese ending for myself with subtitles. I just couldn't resist.

[Phoenixblight]

Ryzaki wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Am I the only one who finds Kingdom Hearts to be ridiculously deep once you bother digging beneath the surface? Its really sad and telling. But that's probably just me XD

Xenosaga = confusing as heck storyline though. But yeah I had to playthrough 1 and 3 (couldn't stand 2 so just watched the cutscenes on youtube) at least 3 times before I started understanding wth was going on.

Also sad ending is sad. My poor Jin. :"(

Not the only one. I absolutely love the KH series too bad its moved on to the handheld systems.

Oh yeah speaking of which I need to get Birth By Sleep when it finally comes out in english.

Even if I already spoiled the japanese ending for myself with subtitles. I just couldn't resist.

One of the reason I need to get a PSP along with AGito and all the other fantastic RPGs on it. I am just lazy

[ReDSH1FT]

Link9us wrote...

ReDSH1FT wrote...

Are you guys retarded? Mass Effect wins by default because that game is a JRPG. Those stupid games are so obsolete now that they don't even need to be made anymore. Get off your dragonball z blankets and throw away your big breasted anime doll figurines, grow up, and play an RPG the way it was meant to be played, West style.

What rpgs games have you actually played? besides Mass effect. You sound like one of those FPS fans, that don;'t like a fantasy/fictional setting in a game. have you even checked out dragon age yet.

Yeah, I'm a huge FPS fan that loves Call of Duty and Halo, among other ones.  Also, I've played FF1-3,7,10,12, and *might* play 13, depending if they upped the ridiculous genre.  I hated FF12.  I played Chrono Trigger, Pokemon, Lost Odyssey, Legend of Dragoon, and probably a bunch more I can't remember.  Oh yeah those Dragon Quest games, I played 1,2, and 8.

I now have grown so sick and tired of JRPGs.  WRPGs are surpassing them in every respect.  I love RPGs, and I got the experience to know wtf I'm talking about.

[ReDSH1FT]

A Killing Sound wrote...

This is the way I view Japanese RPG's and Western RPG's. Eastern rpgs (for me anyway) were better up until the early 2000's. The last half decent one I played was Dragon Quest VIII. Now I always liked western rpgs like Fallout 1 and 2, KOTOR etc., but I didn't get into them until the real decline of JRPGS. My problem with JPRGS is predictablility. Final Fantasys have rehashed the old save the world from the big bad conspiracy too many times to count. The fact that characters are designed by anime artists does not explain why the characters are poorly developed. It's really the writers of these games, who do not understand the fact that the rest of the world does not want to play as a seventeen year old each and every game. Perhaps its marketing for a different age group, or regional preference. The fact remains that most westerners prefer a more mature game as the industy gets older.

Sorry if this was a bit of a rant.

This is how I feel too man.  I'm glad BioWare has stepped up to the plate to deliver some amazing experiences.

[Ryzaki]

Phoenixblight wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Am I the only one who finds Kingdom Hearts to be ridiculously deep once you bother digging beneath the surface? Its really sad and telling. But that's probably just me XD

Xenosaga = confusing as heck storyline though. But yeah I had to playthrough 1 and 3 (couldn't stand 2 so just watched the cutscenes on youtube) at least 3 times before I started understanding wth was going on.

Also sad ending is sad. My poor Jin. :"(

Not the only one. I absolutely love the KH series too bad its moved on to the handheld systems.

Oh yeah speaking of which I need to get Birth By Sleep when it finally comes out in english.

Even if I already spoiled the japanese ending for myself with subtitles. I just couldn't resist.

One of the reason I need to get a PSP along with AGito and all the other fantastic RPGs on it. I am just lazy

When is Agito even coming out? I heart about it like once and then it dissappeared of the map for some reason.

[mmu1]

NeroSparda wrote...

If I remember right, people were complaining that this game isn't even an RPG. And it isn't universal that western way is the absolute way. Jeez. Should I bring in Shin Megami Tensei once again?

What about Shin Megami Tensei?

I've played a couple of the Shin Megami Tensei games, and altogther somewhere between 20-30 JPRGs in total (though I don't think I ever fnished one, despite putting 50-60 hours into some - off the top of my head, I played a couple of the aforementioned Devil Summoner titles, FF VII, VIII, X, XII, Grandia III, Dark Cloud 2, Rogue Galaxy, Dragon Quest 8, one of the Suikodens, a couple of the Shadow Hearts games, Kingdom Hearts, Xenosaga III, one of the Valkyrie Profile games, Odin Sphere, Lost Odyssey, one of the Star Oceans, Infinite Undiscovery, The Last Remnant, a couple of the Persona games...), and frankly, for the most part they all blur together. I can't think of a single line of dialogue that made me laugh out loud, or a battle that was so cool I had to tell my other game playing buddies about it  - nearly all of them are just filler I played in between other, better games.

...actually, I think the best JRPG I ever played was Kingdom Hearts II - and I think that was because the good old Disney cartoon characters all felt a lot more human than the bizzare cast of freakish characters these games are usually filled with.

The done-to-death Western RPG tropes of "Save this kingdom populated by beer-swilling dwarves with Scottish accents and tree-hugger elf magicians from yet another unspeakable evil force" start to feel fresh in comparison, because while you know the destination, there is at least some variety in how you get there, and the occasional surprise on the way...

Modifié par mmu1, 08 février 2010 - 04:15 .

[Phoenixblight]

Ryzaki wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Am I the only one who finds Kingdom Hearts to be ridiculously deep once you bother digging beneath the surface? Its really sad and telling. But that's probably just me XD

Xenosaga = confusing as heck storyline though. But yeah I had to playthrough 1 and 3 (couldn't stand 2 so just watched the cutscenes on youtube) at least 3 times before I started understanding wth was going on.

Also sad ending is sad. My poor Jin. :"(

Not the only one. I absolutely love the KH series too bad its moved on to the handheld systems.

Oh yeah speaking of which I need to get Birth By Sleep when it finally comes out in english.

Even if I already spoiled the japanese ending for myself with subtitles. I just couldn't resist.

One of the reason I need to get a PSP along with AGito and all the other fantastic RPGs on it. I am just lazy

When is Agito even coming out? I heart about it like once and then it dissappeared of the map for some reason.

Square stated they should have something this EA along with new info on Versus. We'll see. I personally waiting for more info on Parasite Eve 3rd B day.

[Ryzaki]

Phoenixblight wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Phoenixblight wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Am I the only one who finds Kingdom Hearts to be ridiculously deep once you bother digging beneath the surface? Its really sad and telling. But that's probably just me XD

Xenosaga = confusing as heck storyline though. But yeah I had to playthrough 1 and 3 (couldn't stand 2 so just watched the cutscenes on youtube) at least 3 times before I started understanding wth was going on.

Also sad ending is sad. My poor Jin. :"(

Not the only one. I absolutely love the KH series too bad its moved on to the handheld systems.

Oh yeah speaking of which I need to get Birth By Sleep when it finally comes out in english.

Even if I already spoiled the japanese ending for myself with subtitles. I just couldn't resist.

One of the reason I need to get a PSP along with AGito and all the other fantastic RPGs on it. I am just lazy

When is Agito even coming out? I heart about it like once and then it dissappeared of the map for some reason.

Square stated they should have something this EA along with new info on Versus. We'll see. I personally waiting for more info on Parasite Eve 3rd B day.

Hm. Bah I can't get anything until around July. *sighs* Stupid 6 month localization time. <_<

[Borschtbeet]

I liked Xenogears but I thought Xenosaga was a bunch of pretentious garbage.



Mass Effect wins.

[Soruyao]

The problem with the xenosaga series is that the writers were hamstringed by copyright issues. Several of the writers from xenogears were on the staff and they wanted to make a game series as close to what they originally intended xenogears to be as possible.



Xenogears was originally supposed to be a 5 part series, but they didn't even get enough funding to complete one game. Half the second disc was replaced by one of the characters talking about stuff that the player should have been able to do, to fill in the holes in the story.



The first game was decent, because most of the original writers were still there. They set up an interesting story with a lot of cryptic stuff behind the scenes that they would explain later. Then for whatever reason after the first game they left.



Other writers filled in for 2 and 3 and changed a lot of things that would have happened, filling plotholes in ways that they liked better, but which didn't mesh well with the series. The end of the third game was just a bunch of half-assed explanations that made no sense, which were just put there to tie up all the loose ends roughly and give some sense of closure. (Some of the "revelations" at the end of three were truly laughable.)



All in all, the first game was decent, but then after that it devolved into a convoluted mess.



The fighting systems were neat though.

[TopUSGun]

I hate JRPG's.

[spernus]

Xenosaga was a complete mess,but Monolith isn't close to being as talented as Bioware so it's a moot point.

While I loved some of the theme explored in the Xenosaga serie ( surpassing the fear of death,messiah being reborn,omega point allusion,the Nietzche superman,etc),the execution and delivery was awful.The writers had great ideas,but couldn't actually write themselves out of a paper bag and the story was a complete mess.Pseudo science-fiction and philosophy mumbo jumbo,unecessary exposition,complete lack of vision as to how to properly present a science-fiction rpg ( Xenosaga was the typical definition of linear rpg,no exploration,first game take place on spaceship),etc.

It really doesn't feel like a science-fiction rpg despite taking place on spaceships.It was mostly a missed opportunity and the second game was one mediocre piece of software. Ugly art direction,awful soundtrack and insipid storytelling (especially the part where you enter MOMO's subconscious) make it the worst game in my PS2 library .

I'm sure Bioware could of extracted much of the potential out of the Xenosaga universe.It sure would of felt like the science-fiction setting that it was.

Modifié par spernus, 08 février 2010 - 06:01 .

[Soruyao]

spernus wrote...

(especially the part where you enter MOMO's subconscious) make it the worst game in my PS2 library .

GOD, I had blocked that out!   You had to go around pushing over logs so that you could cross rivers for some reason, and you went through like 4 different versions of the same area with slightly harder enemies each time.   That was so trashy.  XD

[spernus]

A Killing Sound wrote...

This is the way I view Japanese RPG's and Western RPG's. Eastern rpgs (for me anyway) were better up until the early 2000's. The last half decent one I played was Dragon Quest VIII. Now I always liked western rpgs like Fallout 1 and 2, KOTOR etc., but I didn't get into them until the real decline of JRPGS. My problem with JPRGS is predictablility. Final Fantasys have rehashed the old save the world from the big bad conspiracy too many times to count. The fact that characters are designed by anime artists does not explain why the characters are poorly developed. It's really the writers of these games, who do not understand the fact that the rest of the world does not want to play as a seventeen year old each and every game. Perhaps its marketing for a different age group, or regional preference. The fact remains that most westerners prefer a more mature game as the industy gets older.

Sorry if this was a bit of a rant.

It's the same for most of us who grew up with console gaming.You don't have much choice but to love and accept jrpg for what they are.You don't even know better,so of course you will find them to be superior by default.

It is true however that jrpg had one advantage over western rpg and that's money+production value.When I started playing wrpg,I was shocked to see the low level of production value and the lack of polish.I wasn't a fan of art direction in western game in general either,since japanese game are so stylized.

I did however start to grow bored with the PS2 era,especially after being completely disappointed by Xenosaga and seeing most jrpg being a case of been there,done that (and FF regressing).

I decided to try my hand at wrpg with KOTOR first and then Jade empire ( first wrpg I finished).There's no doubt in my mind that Bioware is now at the top,since they can put together storytelling+dialogue+high production value and good gameplay finally.While being sloppy,Bethesda does provide sandbox rpg which are different from anything else (so does pirahna bytes who are even sloppier).

I really hope Obsidian can get going,since we really need more developer who can create wrpg. I don't trust Japan right now and I don't see the talent needed to push rpg further.

[spernus]

Soruyao wrote...

spernus wrote...

(especially the part where you enter MOMO's subconscious) make it the worst game in my PS2 library .

GOD, I had blocked that out!   You had to go around pushing over logs so that you could cross rivers for some reason, and you went through like 4 different versions of the same area with slightly harder enemies each time.   That was so trashy.  XD

That was one ugly forest...

There's also the part where Jr revisit the lab of his youth along with Rubedo/Albedo which went on forever.Easily one of the worst rpg moment of my gaming career,but it seem that Star ocean 4 has moment which are 2-3 time as bad.

Modifié par spernus, 08 février 2010 - 06:23 .

[amrose2]

If anything JRPG are accessible. Last one I touched was FFX years and years ago, and then tried out another one to see if they were any different or more fun. It was like playing the same exact game with different polygons. Even the menu systems on them are exactly the same with each other.



In summary, play one JRPG and you have played all of them that have ever existed, and from the looks of things, any that will ever exist in the future.

[spernus]

amrose2 wrote...

If anything JRPG are accessible. Last one I touched was FFX years and years ago, and then tried out another one to see if they were any different or more fun. It was like playing the same exact game with different polygons. Even the menu systems on them are exactly the same with each other.

In summary, play one JRPG and you have played all of them that have ever existed, and from the looks of things, any that will ever exist in the future.

Wrong,go play Demon's soul. 

[Soruyao]

spernus wrote...


That was one ugly forest...

There's also the part where Jr revisit the lab of his youth along with Rubedo/Albedo which went on forever.Easily one of the worst rpg moment of my gaming career,but it seem that Star ocean 4 has moment which are 2-3 time as bad.

I have no doubt star ocean four was riddled with bad story and gameplay.  I gave up on that series after 3.  That game had the most tortured and slow exposition out of any game I've ever played.    Then once the game proper had started, I got thrown into the most bland and empty dungeon crawling area ever.   It was like this big abandoned castle that was overgrown with weeds, and you had to fight like 50 packs of enemies in there before you had any idea why you were even there.  Ugh.

I haven't played a good JRPG since the ps1.  >_>