It looks like some people are getting hung up on some things because of details they missed, overlooked or forgot in ME2. Just my thoughts on some points I noticed. Maybe putting them all in one spot will help some discussion. Then again, maybe not. Sorry if any of this comes across as condescending or anything... if so, that wasn't my intent.
1) "Collectors haven't been seen outside the Omega Relay before ME2."
--They HAVE been seen, just not by Shepard et al. Sightings and dealings with them are so rare that most people who hear about them don't believe it. You run across people in ME2 who think/thought the Collectors were myth. It's part of the lore that Collectors have been around and occasionally appear to make trades with beings, tech for special organic collections. Until however long it takes for that tech to be assimilated by the Galaxy, whoever traded with the Collector has a bonus of some sort. What we don't know is how often the Collectors make such deals. I don't recall ME2 saying but maybe one of the novels gives a clue. We do know in-game that Krogan Warlord Okeer made such a trade, trading many Krogans for tech to work on Grunt.
2) "Harbinger couldn't be controlling the Collectors from Dark Space because a Reaper has to be present for Indoctrination."
--a) Unless I totally misunderstood the N7 mission about the mine, the people there were gradually indoctrinated over time (as seen in their logs) and eventually became husks. You have to destroy the Indoctrination device to finish the mission. So, from this mission, while close proximity to a Reaper WILL result in indoctrination (as seen via Sovereign and the Derelict Reaper), it seems plausible if not proven that Reaper proximity isn't needed for Indoctrination.
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Reapers have greater technology than the dominant, living races at the moment. If TIM could install a quantum communication exchange that works regardless of distance, surely Harbinger could have something similar to use with the Collectors. While incredibly costly for current races, this could have little meaning to a Reaper as long as it has necessary life-support energies.
3) "Collectors are indoctrinated and Reapers still control them through indoctrination."
--This is incorrect, as Mordin points out: the Collectors have had various physical organs and systems replaced with technology. I don't think he was blunt in spelling it out but they cannot live without the tech implants that regulate/control the bodies. The Protheans were indoctrinated and indoctrination leads to mindlessness in the best of situations. The Reapers modified the genetic form of the Protheans over time into what we know as Collectors; this is verified by EDI and Mordin. At the very end, Harbinger says "relinquishing control" and the Collector General collapses, it's eyes powering down. There is no sapience in the Collectors we saw and dealt with in ME2. The possible exception was the Collector General being in a similar situation as Saren but that is disproven with the end scene.
4) "Why don't more Reapers take active control of Controller bodies and use them as avatars?"
--a) As seen by Implanted-Saren's fight, full immersive control has negative consequences for the reaper if the avatar is destroyed. Harbinger would "release" the possessed Controller as it took too much damage. Point of fact: small-scale avatar that is vulnerable to small-arms fire are inferior for combat situations compared to the Reapers ship. While we don't know for certain the connection, there was an undeniable correlation between Zombie-Saren's death and Sovereign's weakening & death. Logically, if there is such a possible weakness, a Reaper wouldn't assume possessive control over an avatar form unless it felt it was REALLY important. Sovereign needed to open the Citadel Relay, especially after it fully committed to the attack on the Citadel. While we don't know all the motivations yet, we do know Harbinger had a huge grudge against Shepard.
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The rest of the Reapers were hibernating to conserve power. No need to have more than one Reaper oversee the Collectors when that one does well enough. The Reapers have been doing this for many cycles; they conserve energy unless they have to act. What remains to be seen is whether or not they have any other modified servant races around like the Keepers (unpossessable) and Collectors (possessable) from all their cycles. The higher the number of servant races like the Collectors, the greater the likelihood of other active Reapers while the others hibernate.
5) "The Human-Reaper looks like a giant human or Terminator; lame! What's it do, fly 'Superman' style in space? And it's too small!"
--a) Non-lore reason: Mass Effect series has been said to be a shout-out/homage/etc. to various scifi media of the '80s. Like it or not, "The Terminator" was a very big scifi story in the 80s, even if it was mostly action. You could make the argument that Zombie-Saren was "The Terminator" shout-out but the final boss definitely is. While a lot of the current consumer generation has become desensitized due to over-use, mechanical skeletal forms can be a bit jarring to people. Thanks to the Terminator movies, WarHammer40K, Contra3 (just to name a few), the sight of a fleshless, mechanical endoskeleton form trying to kill you isn't a totally nightmarish image anymore.
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size/shape: The mechanical form we see is 100% Reaper made using the melted-down human goo that is nowhere near complete and described as larval. The game points this out. Other forum goers posted it, too. We have no idea how it would have looked when fully mature. Also as pointed out, the art designs for this form show that Bioware had a LOT of thought put into this and it wasn't chosen on a whim. The art version of what we see in game has arms that are more like a cross between the squid legs on Sovereign and scythe-blade-forearms. (I got the impression of a high-tech Grim Reaper art allusion.) Woefully incomplete as a fetus, we have no idea how big it would have been ... also as pointed out by others. Given the approximate comparable sizes of the Reaper fleet seen at the end, it is logical that regardless of how it looked, it would have been approximate size to the others. It is also logical that Bioware would have found a way to make a completed form look menacing.
-Personal Supposition on Fetal Reaper:
Was I personally somewhat disappointed in the look of the fetal Reaper? Yes. Did the image still work well enough to disturb me on an intellectual level? Yes, both in the visual as well as what it could mean for Reaper internals. Until I see otherwise, given that it's a fetus/larval stage and mechanical, it seems more logical to build a shell OVER the racial/humanoid core since metallic forms do not grow/alter like flesh ones do. While possible to retrofit an existing small mechanical form into a larger one to simulate organic growth, it is more likely to just build a larger one. Also, all the noticeable Reapers in the fleet share common characteristics. It is highly unlikely that no bi-pedal humanoid organic life ever came about before this galatic cycle wherein it burst up ALL over the galaxy. Just on that artistic note, I doubt that it would have been a Reaper version of a Terminator or Iron Giant.
EDIT: bah. My tired mind forgot about the Reapers Techno-organic aspects and focused too much on the mechanical shell like Sovereign's shell. Depending on how Bioware has the techno-organic aspects play out (especially how the organic goo/paste contributes to Reaper growth/construction), it's possible that the form could retrofit a change in size similar to organic form growth.
I had more thoughts but I'm tired and starting to ramble. Getting tired and a headache, heh. This should be good enough.
Modifié par Zayin, 09 février 2010 - 07:06 .
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