357 réponses à ce sujet

[wbaron]

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

They made a mistake with the Protheans.  Problem with being organic.  Had this minor mistake not occurred, Shepard would be a Xunian.

Considering this isn't the reapers first rodeo, they sure make a lot of mistakes and make it very hard on themselves even with their vastly superior tech advantages.

Modifié par wbaron, 07 février 2010 - 05:09 .

[GnusmasTHX]

John Forseti wrote...

Heres a picture of the citadel;



Question: How does closing the ward arms seal that great big hole at the back?

They probably need it open to activate its relay functions. The reason they wanted it closed in ME1 is because the enemy fleet was coming from infront of them.

[marshalleck]

DuffyMJ wrote...

The answer to marshalleck's question:

the first reaction of the citadel fleet when soverign arrived was "seal the ward arms!" but it didn't happen because Saren took control of the station through the conduit, thus the reaper was able to fly in before the arms closed. If the reapers came to any old mass relay at the edge of the galaxy and jumped to the citadel, the arms would be sealed and the galactic government and all their vital data would be preserved. This is the entire point of the Prothean counter-attack, they took away the Keepers from them and with them the Citadel. Without the Citadel, organic life in the galaxy has instantaneous travel and communications and the capability to unite the resources and minds of the galaxy against the reapers. The Reapers NEED to use subterfuge to retake the Citadel, or their invasion will be pointless and costly.

Thank you. It's a good attempt, but I'm still not completely sold. If Sovereign beamed his signal to the Keepers and they opened the relay, the rest of the Reaper fleet will still have to occupy the Citadel by force and counter any military presence.

Do you suppose the Keepers would just repeatedly open the Citadel if its organic occupants closed it? Do they lock out the controls? Did the Reapers just never consider the possibility of accidentally locking their keys in the car, so to speak?

Seems awfully convenient that this whole thing hinges on the Reapers not being able to open the Citadel ward arms once they're closed.

Modifié par marshalleck, 07 février 2010 - 05:13 .

[GnusmasTHX]

wbaron wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

They made a mistake with the Protheans.  Problem with being organic.  Had this minor mistake not occurred, Shepard would be a Xunian.

Considering this isn't the reapers first rodeo, they sure make a lot of mistakes and make it very hard on themselves even with their vastly superior tech advantages.

They don't. It's a matter of timing and chance, but ultimately that's the entire point of the game. To win.

Likewise it didn't make any sense that Frodo happened to be the one to destroy the One Ring, except his uncle happened to find it after going on an adventure with a wizard to kill a dragon.

Timing and chance.

[The Capital Gaultier]

wbaron wrote...

The Capital Gaultier wrote...

They made a mistake with the Protheans.  Problem with being organic.  Had this minor mistake not occurred, Shepard would be a Xunian.

Considering this isn't the reapers first rodeo, they sure make a lot of mistakes and make it very hard on themselves even with their vastly superior tech advantages.

Well, they didn't build themselves like the Geth, so apparently the organic bits have some use to them.

[wbaron]

AdrynBliss wrote...

oi vey of course their not flying in from dark space. even at ftl speeds it would still take god knows how long. does no one listen to the dialouge anymore! harbinger simply says 'we will find another way'.

What is your interpretation of the last scene in ME2?  Looks like they are doing just that.  Of course, looks can be deceiving, but also a bit hard to ignore.

Who really cares if they are flying, teleporting, wormholing or astral projecting?  Result seems to be the same.

[NoUserNameHere]

They have a contingency plan.

[wbaron]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

They don't. It's a matter of timing and chance, but ultimately that's the entire point of the game. To win.

Likewise it didn't make any sense that Frodo happened to be the one to destroy the One Ring, except his uncle happened to find it after going on an adventure with a wizard to kill a dragon.

Timing and chance.

I guess if you can admit that it doesn't make any sense, I'm good with it.

[-Area51-Silent]

You people are thinking way to convensionally. The idea brought up in Mass Effect 1 was that the Mass Relays built by the prothians were based on another extinct species, and that is based on reaper tech.



Since they basically put that tech out there, or it is innately set out there so SOME society will find it and manipulate it, then perhaps the Mass Relays into the middle of the citadel was merely a shortcut, but that doesnt mean the reapers couldn't posses that tech or superior tech themselves to get to Citadel space.

[John Forseti]

GnusmasTHX wrote...

John Forseti wrote...

Heres a picture of the citadel;



Question: How does closing the ward arms seal that great big hole at the back?

They probably need it open to activate its relay functions. The reason they wanted it closed in ME1 is because the enemy fleet was coming from infront of them.

The point is if they're close enough to be able to just fly into the Galaxy no trouble, they don't actually need it's relay functions. They just need to take control of the relay network.

[It IS Lupus]

marshalleck wrote...

Oh, this thread again.

Someone answer me this: if they could get here in a reasonable time frame using FTL, why would Sovereign risk exposing their plan by repeatedly orchestrating attacks on the Citadel for the last 2000 years?

This was explained in ME1

Soverign's plan was to seize control of the Citadel, open the relay in the Citadel, and then cut off each system by effectively turning off the mass relays and Comm Bouy's. This way the Reapers can take their sweet time to destroy each cluster one by one with very little opposition.

[marshalleck]

It IS Lupus wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Oh, this thread again.

Someone answer me this: if they could get here in a reasonable time frame using FTL, why would Sovereign risk exposing their plan by repeatedly orchestrating attacks on the Citadel for the last 2000 years?

This was explained in ME1

Soverign's plan was to seize control of the Citadel, open the relay in the Citadel, and then cut off each system by effectively turning off the mass relays and Comm Bouy's. This way the Reapers can take their sweet time to destroy each cluster one by one with very little opposition.

Okay thanks

[The Black Ghost]

People I realize there is FTL. But you must also realize 2 things.



1) They are really far out from the galaxy...judging from how the galaxy looked...50 thousand light years away. Even if FTL somehow allows you to travel 3 light years in a day, I doubt they can travel at constant FTL for 20 days or so.



2) Energy. They have limited reserves. The whole point was to use the giant relay to get there quickly so they could restock right from the citadel and surrounding area using the mass relays.

[Aisynia]

1) how did mordin get that reaper seeker bug in that cutscene?

Near the end of the Mordin recruit mission, when you are telling him to get set up in the lab, Jacob or Shepard (I think, maybe Miranda) says that they collected some samples. That in itself is a bit of a plot hole but.. *shrug* I'm sure, behind the scenes, it's something that makes sense that ended up not getting explained.

2) If you need an IFF to go though the gate then what are all those ship husks doing there? And why does it imply that ships go though the gate without one a lot?

You don't need it to go through, you need it to go through and survive the trip.

3) They claim the Normandy 2 is a copy of the Norm 1....so why is the mass effect core so different? And why does it look way less cooler? It reminds me of an ancient broiler..

It was made using the SR1 designs, but modified somewhat (and later heavily modified with new shield, armor and weapons tech).

[wbaron]

It IS Lupus wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Oh, this thread again.

Someone answer me this: if they could get here in a reasonable time frame using FTL, why would Sovereign risk exposing their plan by repeatedly orchestrating attacks on the Citadel for the last 2000 years?

This was explained in ME1

Soverign's plan was to seize control of the Citadel, open the relay in the Citadel, and then cut off each system by effectively turning off the mass relays and Comm Bouy's. This way the Reapers can take their sweet time to destroy each cluster one by one with very little opposition.

Guess that settles it then.  Since they failed to take the citadel, the reapers have no way into the galaxy (anytime soon anyway) and ME2 was really a spin-off about the manipulated Protheans.  Wonder who the bad guy in ME3 will be?

[Aisynia]

John Forseti wrote...

Heres a picture of the citadel;



Question: How does closing the ward arms seal that great big hole at the back?

The Citadel has pointed, retracted hatches on the "front" ends of the arms that extent to meet, sealing up the station. If you look real close, you can see even in that image, that they exist on the back as well. It seals on both ends, becoming a giant, completely enclosed "cigar shape".

[GnusmasTHX]

Aisynia wrote...

John Forseti wrote...

Heres a picture of the citadel;



Question: How does closing the ward arms seal that great big hole at the back?

The Citadel has pointed, retracted hatches on the "front" ends of the arms that extent to meet, sealing up the station. If you look real close, you can see even in that image, that they exist on the back as well. It seals on both ends, becoming a giant, completely enclosed "cigar shape".

OMG, END BOSS = GIANT ILLUSIVE MAN REAPER THAT SMOKES THE CITADEL.

[kramjam]

why didn't sovereign just wait until shepard died of old age?

[Gar_Logan]

GnusmasTHX wrote...
OMG, END BOSS = GIANT ILLUSIVE MAN REAPER THAT SMOKES THE CITADEL.

I think you may have something here...

[Aisynia]

wbaron wrote...

It IS Lupus wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Oh, this thread again.

Someone answer me this: if they could get here in a reasonable time frame using FTL, why would Sovereign risk exposing their plan by repeatedly orchestrating attacks on the Citadel for the last 2000 years?

This was explained in ME1

Soverign's plan was to seize control of the Citadel, open the relay in the Citadel, and then cut off each system by effectively turning off the mass relays and Comm Bouy's. This way the Reapers can take their sweet time to destroy each cluster one by one with very little opposition.

Guess that settles it then.  Since they failed to take the citadel, the reapers have no way into the galaxy (anytime soon anyway) and ME2 was really a spin-off about the manipulated Protheans.  Wonder who the bad guy in ME3 will be?

No, I think ME2 is about the reapers freaking out.

Someone is capable of opposing them. Someone is defeating their plans. Someone actually destroyed one of them.

Why sit around doing that for 2,000 years? Reapers are patient. They knew, all they had to do was get into the galaxy, and bang, they win. It was undeniable in whatever society the reapers have. It was just the way things are. Someone screwed with the Citadel, fine, manipulate some organic idiots to capture the Citadel or get someone into power at the Citadel who could then manually open the relay. Reapers are patient. Very simple plan, and it was all they had to do.

Then the humans came along.

Shepard defeated Sovreign in combat, which caused its impervious shields to drop, allowing the fleet to destroy it.

Side note, this is evidence of how much smarter than Sovreign that Harbinger is. If a Reaper inhabits a form, and is defeated, it causes it actual, serious, problems. The Collector General was directly inhabited by Harbinger, and the Collector General, controlled by Harbinger, allowed it to actually enter combat. The second the General was about to actually be destroyed, Harbinger jumped ship. Hard to say what the repercussions for Harbinger would have been if he stayed in that body. Anyways....

With Sovreign destroyed the Reapers immediately focused in on Humanity. They realized they could no longer be patient. Someone is capable of destroying them, and intends to, they aren't going to wait around for humanity to become even more advanced, possibly capturing their technoogy, and uniting the galaxy under their banner.

They have to do something, and fast.

So no, ME2 isn't about the Protheans specifically, it's about the Reapers crapping themselves.. and also being very, very angry at one very specific organic entity.

Modifié par Aisynia, 07 février 2010 - 05:44 .

[Aisynia]

kramjam wrote...

why didn't sovereign just wait until shepard died of old age?

See my above post, it's too late for that.

[Aisynia]

EDIT: Double posting is very easy here o.o

Modifié par Aisynia, 07 février 2010 - 05:43 .

[DuffyMJ]

marshalleck wrote...

DuffyMJ wrote...

The answer to marshalleck's question:

the first reaction of the citadel fleet when soverign arrived was "seal the ward arms!" but it didn't happen because Saren took control of the station through the conduit, thus the reaper was able to fly in before the arms closed. If the reapers came to any old mass relay at the edge of the galaxy and jumped to the citadel, the arms would be sealed and the galactic government and all their vital data would be preserved. This is the entire point of the Prothean counter-attack, they took away the Keepers from them and with them the Citadel. Without the Citadel, organic life in the galaxy has instantaneous travel and communications and the capability to unite the resources and minds of the galaxy against the reapers. The Reapers NEED to use subterfuge to retake the Citadel, or their invasion will be pointless and costly.

Thank you. It's a good attempt, but I'm still not completely sold. If Sovereign beamed his signal to the Keepers and they opened the relay, the rest of the Reaper fleet will still have to occupy the Citadel by force and counter any military presence.

Do you suppose the Keepers would just repeatedly open the Citadel if its organic occupants closed it? Do they lock out the controls? Did the Reapers just never consider the possibility of accidentally locking their keys in the car, so to speak?

Seems awfully convenient that this whole thing hinges on the Reapers not being able to open the Citadel ward arms once they're closed.

Well I don't doubt that the Reapers could/would be able to smash their way into the Citadel, but presumably by the time that were accomplished, vital records on documents aboard the Citadel would be purged (just as USA's embassy in Moscow burned it's cryptography machines and the like during the Cuban Missile Crisis).  It sucks for the Reapers since it's a little bit convenient like you said, but if you think about it, they had to design the Citadel to be this great fortress in order to make it attractive to the organics'.  it's what makes the thing attractive as a political/military capital location -- it's apparently invulnerability.  In that sense it's a gamble, and the keepers were essentially the Trojan horse, one that the Protheans sabotaged.  The Keepers probably do lock the organics' out of the controls, but the thing is, once just a few Reapers make their way into the ward arms, it's pretty much over anyway even if they do manage to regain control somehow, i mean soverign did enough damage in its brief attack that it took 7 years to repair.  It would be cool if they put out a graphic novel or something about the fall of the protheans so we could see how exactly the trap is sprung.

[asaiasai]

This is just speculation.

First off for all thier power and bluster the reapers NEED some assistance from an organic life form to do thier dirty work. They call it indoctrination or in the case of the Collectors they just created them. The collectors created the virus on Omega, they created the virus that effected the Geth's higher program functions for the specific purpose of gaining thier aide, not because they want to but because they need to. If the Reapers could do what they want done without Saren, Geth, Vorcha, or creating the Collectors they would just do so. That is thier fundamental weakness, and since most races are guided by the short term,even the Asari with thier thousand year life spans are short term by Reaper standards, it is easy to lure help. By the time the helper race realizes they are next on the chopping block it is too late.

I do not think it matters how far out into dark space the Reapers are we are talking about a race that has built the Mass Effect relays. The Mass Effect relays are an evolutionary guide for the organic civs that find them, and disposable tech by Reaper standards for a modern comparison lets use Windows. Tech that by being is the primary mover in computers, Microsoft has major influence on how the world of computers move. The science behind Mass Effect occupies the same place in the ME realm. So no matter how far the Reapers are out into dark space it is only a hope skip and a jump to the "We're here" moment. The only saving grace we have is that so far any one or race that has worked with the Reapers has been either neutralized or thier allegance has been changed.

What i would like to see is in ME3 the outcome a win, loose, or stalemate will be determined by some "supposedly" inconsequental decision made in ME. The player will have no idea what the outcome is from profile to profile and the only way to find out is to play the profile. I would love to have to play ME again trying different convo options to get the desired outcome in ME3. Something as simple as do you talk to Conrad Verner in ME, do you help Dr. Michaels replying with either Paragon (fail) renegade (stalemate) or neither (win) in conversations. Basing a win loose or stalemate not on a major decision but a small one the butterfly effect. The player would still be able to push ME2 profiles to the end in ME3 but would have no idea of the outcome. Seems a bit much but as i had only 3 ME profiles to bring to ME2 i am now going back to ME to make more profiles to bring foward, I am trying to vary them as much as possible in small and large decisions just to see the differences.

Asai  

[BusterPoindexter]

Amethyst Deceiver wrote...

Actually, why don't the Reapers just wait for Shepard to die of natural causes?

some people are stronger in death than in life.

we tend to call them heroes.

the post-humous impact that true heroes have on society is much more powerful that that person would have had with a gun in his/her hand while alive.


it would be in the reapers best interest to destroy the image of the hero while he/she is still alive to crush any possibility of hope in mankind.

Ok, reapers don't show up for a hundred years.  Shepard is known as the first human spectre, saved the galaxy from saren and the Geth then disappears to appear working for the radical human terrorist organzation cerberus.  Add to that, he was a loon that believed that giant machines from outside the galaxy were coming to kill everything.