134 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonic9100]

when the galaxy realised solving infinite ammo weapons overheating by giving them clips was a bad idea they went back to allowing soldiers to infinitely fire their AR from the hip into the ground without consequence

[casedawgz]

I think the thermal clips improve the flow of combat.

[kab]

finnithe wrote...
It'd be easier to defend myself if you substantiated your opinion. Don't you conserve your Widow Ammo? It only has a dozen shots or so. Same thing with the shotguns, and the Canifex doesn't have that much ammo either. The only gun for which I never run out is the Tempest, and I don't like that.

Ironic, you didn't substantiate yours.

I have yet to run out of ammo or come close to running out of ammo because it is everywhere.  There is far more lying around than I could ever use.  I've run around using a Claymore almost exclusively without having a problem.  I don't use one gun all the time because there isn't one gun good for every situation, it has nothing to do with ammo.

[Jimbe2693]

They should just increase the capacity of the thermal clip, and perhaps allow you to fire even if you don't have any tc's, but when your gun overheats its out of action for about 30 seconds.

Just throwing ideas around

[noobzor99]

Universal heat sinks should be, you know, UNIVERSAL.



Then I would be perfectly fine with them.

[bobyevil]

maybe i need to review my me1 codex entries but if my science is right why do frictionless materials overheat in the first place....i mean no friction no heat right or am i missing something...

[RighteousRage]

The weapons should have always had clips, to be honest. When I first heard the thing about BB gun metal blocks being shaved I was like "uhhhh"



However now they have an inconsistency on their hands

[Sibbwolf]

Stoko981 wrote...

It also makes no sense for a galaxy full of people who all have infinite ammo weapons to suddenly tether themselves to a consumable such as thermal clips. Oh, you've run out? Well, your gun still has infinite ammo, but with no thermal clip, you can't fire... Oh well, use your powers until you find more clips.

I'm sure that argument would go over great when introducing the new weapons scheme to entire armies.

That does seem the weakness of the new system (as compared to ME1's unlimited ammo, unlimited shooting). I hate somoene saying all they do in ME2 is spray and pray.. uh, hello, that's what ME1 allowed us to do, especially with frictionless materials!

Sense - once the laws of physics are actually applied, ME1's version of cooling a weapon would make the weapon useless. One simply wouldn't want to carry it into a combat situation since the rate of burst fire would be so low, the team would be relatively quickly outflanked and defeated if the opposition (uh, Geth?) used a quicker cooling method.

Since the geth came up with using sacrificial materials, as has been said, it makes perfect sense. They can fire faster, more often, whatever. Basically they remove the risk of being outflanked while waiting for a poor cooling system to cool their weapon.

Pretty amasingly it takes a month for the Citadel spieces to make the switch, but whatever.

Now on to the real flaw of the new system. The claim is the clips are universally designed, yet Shepard can pick them up, run out of ammo on his heavy pistol/sniper rifle/AR and still have full ammo on his SMG. That needs fixing or a codex entry to explain why the ammo gets assigned so with plausible reasoning.

I'm also sure the armies would prefer the new system for, as I said, the cooling is much more efficient, and removes much of the risk of being outflanked while waiting for a rediculously slow cooling system to work.

[Apocalyptic.Wen]

Pray and spray is what I bought this game for, and to whoever came up with the thermal clip/cooling hybrid mod....



THANK YOU! (I just had to capslock that, and even then it doesn't express my full gratitude.)

[Temper_Graniteskul]

In 2185, the Alliance retrofitted all military weapons with a universal thermal clip, adapted from Geth technology and presumed to be an advancement over the standards at the time. However, field testing was performed in areas pre-seeded with cooled clips, skewing results. After the Terminus Incident of 2187 where Alliance troops were lured into a trap by the Geth, taking massive losses, Alliance brass forced a review of the tech that had left their men and women pinned down with no usable weapons due to lack of accessible clips.



Subsequent analysis of Geth troops taken down in other areas revealed that they were adapted to pick up inorganic materials through their 'feet,' allowing them to create new thermal clips to replace filled cartridges. This effectively gave them near-infinite firing ability, an advantage that was not possible with organic troops. Promises that thermal clip tech was an improvement were subsequently traced to suspicious transmissions from the Terminus systems, leading some to believe that they were planted by the Geth to weaken Alliance military capabilities. Returns to pre-Saren weapon specs, including frictionless materials, were made as quickly as possible.

[Taiko Roshi]

DigitalLiquid I wrote...

tetracycloide wrote...

finnithe wrote...

The thermal clips fix this, forcing you to switch weapons, and keeping you from staying in cover for too long.

Negative.  New damage system does this.  If clip capacity infinite superior weapon choices remain.  Protection counters paramount.

Clip capacity forces power usage.  A moderate positive.  Forces ammo hunting.  A massive negative.

I like you, not for your views or opinions, but for the way you present them. One day i'll give you a surprise hug, with full boner & everything.

lol you both made me laugh. Thank you.

[Sibbwolf]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

In 2185, the Alliance retrofitted all military weapons with a universal thermal clip, adapted from Geth technology and presumed to be an advancement over the standards at the time. However, field testing was performed in areas pre-seeded with cooled clips, skewing results. After the Terminus Incident of 2187 where Alliance troops were lured into a trap by the Geth, taking massive losses, Alliance brass forced a review of the tech that had left their men and women pinned down with no usable weapons due to lack of accessible clips.

Subsequent analysis of Geth troops taken down in other areas revealed that they were adapted to pick up inorganic materials through their 'feet,' allowing them to create new thermal clips to replace filled cartridges. This effectively gave them near-infinite firing ability, an advantage that was not possible with organic troops. Promises that thermal clip tech was an improvement were subsequently traced to suspicious transmissions from the Terminus systems, leading some to believe that they were planted by the Geth to weaken Alliance military capabilities. Returns to pre-Saren weapon specs, including frictionless materials, were made as quickly as possible.

Temper, this is not solely directed at you..

I love how people complain that ME2's ammo system is "dumbed down", then I read this. Limited ammo is "dumbed down" from unlimited? I must remember this.

Of course, a better solution would be to carry more clips, take better aim.. It's not like even at the beginning, the character carries too little ammo.

And if you're going to write an entry explaining why the Citadel spieces stop using thermal clips, perhaps someone can come up with how they overcome the serious problem with overheating and cooling, especially in voids.

[asaiasai]

The heat sink system as implemented in ME2 is ass. I feel like the developers want to dictate my tactics and hunting up heat sinks after a fight DOES NOT SPEED UP GAME PLAY! I am forced to carry a weapon that i WILL never use. I am also forced to carry heat sinks for that weapon that will never be used, and i can not use those useless heat sinks for another weapon, that is just plain ass. The weapon in question is the shotgun, according to my tactics if an enemy EVER gets into the effective range of the shotgun, i screwed up period. I do not screw up.



If you are going to keep this system then the player should be allowed MORE customization in what weapons they can carry. If i want to drop the pistol and shotgun to carry only a sniper and assault, that should be my choice. If i could drop the 2 weapons in question and carry the clips in the space those 2 useless weapons occupy it would be ok but NO, i have to have my tactics dictated to me and that is garbage.



If the clip system followed the codex that would be ok since the clips are supposed to be universal that would mean i get a set number to start with and use them in what ever weapon i want. When i run out of heat sinks for my sniper then i could just pull the one off the shotgun and plug it into the sniper and i am back in bussiness. Instead the universal clips are not really universal. I still wonder why clips from Geth weapons seem to work in Alliance weapons.



Fix it to match the codex, allow me to dump useless weapons, or give me my reliable ME weapons back. The last thing i want to do is scrounge around looking for clips after a fight that really is a drag on game play.



Asai

[DarthCaine]

Sten: No.

[Temper_Graniteskul]

Sibbwolf wrote...

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...

In 2185, the Alliance retrofitted all military weapons with a universal thermal clip, adapted from Geth technology and presumed to be an advancement over the standards at the time. However, field testing was performed in areas pre-seeded with cooled clips, skewing results. After the Terminus Incident of 2187 where Alliance troops were lured into a trap by the Geth, taking massive losses, Alliance brass forced a review of the tech that had left their men and women pinned down with no usable weapons due to lack of accessible clips.

Subsequent analysis of Geth troops taken down in other areas revealed that they were adapted to pick up inorganic materials through their 'feet,' allowing them to create new thermal clips to replace filled cartridges. This effectively gave them near-infinite firing ability, an advantage that was not possible with organic troops. Promises that thermal clip tech was an improvement were subsequently traced to suspicious transmissions from the Terminus systems, leading some to believe that they were planted by the Geth to weaken Alliance military capabilities. Returns to pre-Saren weapon specs, including frictionless materials, were made as quickly as possible.

Temper, this is not solely directed at you..

I love how people complain that ME2's ammo system is "dumbed down", then I read this. Limited ammo is "dumbed down" from unlimited? I must remember this.

Of course, a better solution would be to carry more clips, take better aim.. It's not like even at the beginning, the character carries too little ammo.

And if you're going to write an entry explaining why the Citadel spieces stop using thermal clips, perhaps someone can come up with how they overcome the serious problem with overheating and cooling, especially in voids.

I'll be blunt. I'm not good at FPSs. I've never been good at them because I have difficulty with accurate aiming, doubly so when I have to move and shoot. DOOM? Needed cheat codes for that and any other FPS I tried - invulnerability and infinite ammo. I couldn't get anywhere in Halo. Anything that limits my ammunition is not my friend - it makes 'easy' fights difficult, and moderate to difficult fights impossible. The move to the clip system, coupled with the need to find cover and move in firefights - I will not lie, I'm playing on Casual and I'm in doubt that I'll be able to play through the game successfully. This is a deep disappointment, as I've enjoyed Bioware's games since NWN; the story is what I play for, and the combat is incidental.

This was not an issue I had in ME1. There was an admittedly steep learning curve at the start, but I managed to fight through on Normal thanks to less aggressive AI and, later, frictionless materials upgrades. ME1 was FPS-esque, but only a little, and I appreciated it.

As for the thermal clips on a larger scale in the ME-verse, it is a step back if you can't use your weapon at all without one, but two years ago you could. A hybrid system would make the most sense, but as it stands, it seems like the 'advance' just isn't. Whether the weapons in the first ME1 were possible isn't relevant to me - they existed, so using them for the second game would require no more explanation.

Modifié par Temper_Graniteskul, 08 février 2010 - 11:26 .

[Sibbwolf]

Temper_Graniteskul wrote...
...
As for the thermal clips on a larger scale in the ME-verse, it is a step back if you can't use your weapon at all without one, but two years ago you could. A hybrid system would make the most sense, but as it stands, it seems like the 'advance' just isn't. Whether the weapons in the first ME1 were possible isn't relevant to me - they existed, so using them for the second game would require no more explanation.

Hybrid systems would make sense, yes.

And I hope Bioware realises that.

[termokanden]

I have yet to run out of ammo or come close to running out of ammo because it is everywhere.  There is far more lying around than I could ever use.  I've run around using a Claymore almost exclusively without having a problem.  I don't use one gun all the time because there isn't one gun good for every situation, it has nothing to do with ammo.

We may not have been playing the same game.

When using SMGs or ARs, I don't run out of ammo, although I do have to run around and pick up clips. I tend to use heavy pistols because I like them. With the hand cannon, you get 24 shots. That's it. It's absolutely pitiful. It won't last through a fight. Sometimes you are lucky and there are clips nearby. Sometimes there are suddenly no clips around and you can't use the pistol.

It's fairly obvious that it was balanced around weapons with large clips. This in itself is a mistake, since they managed to make some interesting other weapons this time (the hand cannon really is fun!).

But in any case I admired them for giving us unlimited ammo in ME1. Running around for extra clips is a chore, and the heating system we had before was actually quite an elegant solution. It removed the chore and still punished players for firing too much at random. So some mod combinations were overpowered. Just fix those instead of introducing some old tired and boring shooter system.

Not only did they choose the boring old system, the implementation seems half-baked with the way it favors large-clip weapons. I've given it a second chance too, I've played through the game now. It continues to amaze me that this is considered an improvement. 

[kab]

But in any case I admired them for giving us unlimited ammo in ME1. Running around for extra clips is a chore, and the heating system we had before was actually quite an elegant solution. It removed the chore and still punished players for firing too much at random. So some mod combinations were overpowered. Just fix those instead of introducing some old tired and boring shooter system.

I agree with this. It seems BioWare took every system that had a mistake in it in Mass Effect and removed it entirely, often replacing it with something inferior.



Personally I don't care about the ammo mechanic, it doesn't bother me though I do find the capacity for some weapons a bit odd. What does bother me is the absurdity of how it was inserted into the story. No amount of blind fanboy rationalization is going to explain it away and the lore is lacking because Shepard would have to be missing for at least a few decades for there to ever be a plausible explanation for it.

[BiancoAngelo7]

All of your points are moot for one simple reason:

Like the thermal clips? Then good for you.

Don't Like the thermal clips: Go to the coalesced ini file and search for "weapons" then set "infiniteammo=False" to "infiniteammo=True"

Voila' magic


This makes it so you dont run out of ammo, don't have to run around the field scavenging for clips...(rolls eyes at the devs) and you still have the mandatory cool-down which is considered as reloading.

I hope this helps everyone, Ive made this change and it really improves the gameplay i think, especially for those of us who think that 10 shotgun shells or 9 sniper rounds isnt enough and hate running around for clips and miss being able to play with our favorite weapon like in ME1.

Not to mention I hate the image of Commander Shepard the first human spectre savior of the citadel looking under the sofas and inside cabinets for clips....

Shepard: Clips for the poor?

lawl

Modifié par BiancoAngelo7, 08 février 2010 - 03:14 .

[termokanden]

Well actually I'd like the whole weapon mod system back, but much more refined.



That said, it's nice to know there's such a simple change.

[kab]

BiancoAngelo7 wrote...

All of your points are moot for one simple reason:

Like the thermal clips? Then good for you.

Don't Like the thermal clips: Go to the coalesced ini file and search for "weapons" then set "infiniteammo=False" to "infiniteammo=True"

Voila' magic


This makes it so you dont run out of ammo, don't have to run around the field scavenging for clips...(rolls eyes at the devs) and you still have the mandatory cool-down which is considered as reloading.

I hope this helps everyone, Ive made this change and it really improves the gameplay i think, especially for those of us who think that 10 shotgun shells or 9 sniper rounds isnt enough and hate running around for clips and miss being able to play with our favorite weapon like in ME1.

Not to mention I hate the image of Commander Shepard the first human spectre savior of the citadel looking under the sofas and inside cabinets for clips....

Shepard: Clips for the poor?

lawl

I don't like that solution as it doesn't regulate how much ammo you can use in a given period of time.  The old system did that with heat and forcing you to wait for it to cool down.  The new system does that by limiting the amount of ammo you have available to use.  Turning on infinite ammo just gives us the broken "hold down the button" mechanic that you could achieve with OP weapon/mod combos in the old game.

What I liked was the system before you got to those broken mod combos.  You know, the one where it wasn't about ammo management it was about trigger management.

[Sadja]

I would like to, once again, point out the satisfying ****** upon ejecting a spent clip from your sniper rifle.

[Zimmy42]

lukandroll wrote...

Yeah, they can travel at the speed of light but they can't cool off a simple piece of metal... yeah , who the hell you think you are, the only one who need to STFU here is you

There is very little technology is ME that doesn't have a modern analogue. In fact the entire premise is that the only thing that really changed mankinds understanding of science was the theory of Mass Effect itself.

They can travel at the speed of light because someone left a whole load of highly advanced technology around the place, but other than that advances to technology seem to follow along more advanced versions of what we know today.

Frankly the technology to do what you're suggesting would change the in game universe nearly as much as mass effect. The only limiting factor of Mass Effect technology is the way it generates heat, there isn't a magic cure for that. Except for ejectable heat sinks. Well and a couple of other options, but most would run into similar problems or worse.

As for who do I think I am? Someone who knows just the slightest bit about physics, crack open a book sometime.

Of course if you can think up a valid scientific bit of gobbledegook about how Mass Effect fields can cool something down then by all means. Of course even if they could, the generation of the Mass Effect field to cool the weapon would probably generate as much heat as was lowered.

[Schneidend]

Sorry, but the codex explanation for thermal clips already makes perfect sense. Having to intentionally fire more slowly is a tactical weakness. Most firefights will be decided before anybody is in danger of running out of clips.

[Ags7682]

Although I hated the thermal clips at first, I really like them now. They make me plan my actions, keep an eye on my remaining ammo (like real life) and plan accordingly. Great addition once I got used to it.