134 réponses à ce sujet

[andybuiadh]

I'm a latecomer to the ME universe. I got ME1 on Steam for £3.25 in January and played it through a couple times. I though Tali was awesome then, I didn't frequent any forums etc so it was a decision of my own not influenced by any peer pressure. I only found out that Tali had a huge following once ME2 came out and these forums were put up.



Team Tali!

[EDarkness]

77boy84 wrote...

Yeah, okay, you're right. People don't like Tali because she's popular. It's not because people think she's boring, or a lame character! They just want to spite all the tali fans, because that makes so much sense.

And tali fans may not hurt me, but more often than not (and I hate to stereotype fan bases for characters in a video game, because that just seems so stupid), it's the talis fans posting something that annoys me.

You're being overly dramatic.  Seems like every day someone is complaining about Tali fans, even going so far as to stereotype them as "creepy", "12 year olds", etc.  It's pretty annoying.  I'm not a huge Tali fan, but I don't think that they deserve to be treated bad simply because they're vocal about the character they like.  People can easily avoid clicking the Tali thread or any Tali thread.  It's fine to hate a character for whatever reason, no one is taking that right away from you.  There are Tali hate threads that you can join if you feel there needs to be some balance against the people who like the character.  There' no reason to hate on the fans, though.  Getting upset because Tali fans post something?  Sheesh.

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

I'm a Tali fan and some of the others... scary. And like people said, Bioware will probably kill off Tali out of spite for how obnoxious some of them get. Let's hope not, and/or that enough influence in the other two games can stop fates like that for many characters.

It's funny, I chose Engineer before I knew any of the characters in ME1, and it turns out Tali's the same class. So now with Legion (who I also think is tight) on my team, we can deploy a LOT of Combat Drones... Mine's the strongest of the bunch, but you know that Collector thing where the floating platforms come up and lock onto yours to send guys at you? If you aim carefully enough, you can deploy 3 combat drones onto the platform while it's still in the air. By the time the platform locks on, the whole thing is chaos on there. Very fun.

Modifié par Tony_Knightcrawler, 07 février 2010 - 08:48 .

[Cat Fancy]

Tali is inoffensive, but not offensively so, like Jacob.



But.



There was nothing all that interesting about her in ME1. Her romance in ME2 was ridiculous. Also, she spends all of her time in a suit and has a completely different diet/biochemistry than humans. The sex would've been weird.



YEAH THAT'S RIGHT I WENT THERE



But no, actually, I like her. A lot? I dunno (no.). I don't know why I am compelled to write such hateful things.

[DarchAngelDavid]

seyera wrote...

DarchAngelDavid wrote...

Hate or love who you like but at the end of the day numbers dont lie. If Tali didnt have a strong fan base and if they were not vocal about the character things would be different. She does and they listened. Who's fault is that? If you have a voice speak out and fight for what you want. Bio Ware is out there to make money and if they see the fans asking for something that they can do and make money off of it then more then likely it will happen. Dont hate because a thread has a high count. Get out there an speak about what matters to you and get a high count for your personal passion. It doesnt matter if there are only 5 or 100 people talking about Tali or Miranda or Liara or who ever. They are talking and showing Bio Ware what they have an interest in. If you don't do the same for what you like it is your own fault.

Yes, BioWare responded by enabling you to kill her. It seems a lot forget that, they just focus on the fact she was made a LI.

You can kill everyone in the game including yourself so what is your point?

[EDarkness]

Tony_Knightcrawler wrote...

I'm a Tali fan and some of the others... scary. And like people said, Bioware will probably kill off Tali out of spite for how obnoxious some of them get. Let's hope not, and/or that enough influence in the other two games can stop fates like that for many characters.

I don't think most Tali fans are that way.  I'm a Tali fan (and also a fan of other characters as well), and I don't act that way.  Not saying there aren't a couple rotten apples in the bunch, but overall the fanbase is pretty respectful.  No idea why people let the few sway their opinion instead of leveling that hate at the offending person individually.

DarchAngelDavid wrote...

You can kill everyone in the game including yourself so what is your point?

I think it really depends on what the cannon ending for the game is.  Maybe they'll allow people to replay that part to set things right since you can transfer over any save except one where your Sheppard dies.  They may put more restrictions on what's transferred over in the next game as well.  We don't really know much about it at this point.

Modifié par EDarkness, 07 février 2010 - 09:03 .

[KalDurenik]

There have allways been alot of Tali fans... She is one of the most liked characters in the Mass Effect Universe.

[implodinggoat]

Tali's abilities in ME2 are definitely kind of weak; but I think Bioware did a really great job developing her character in ME2.  They really need to bring the Sabotage ability back though, cause that was the Tech's bread and butter in ME1 and without it they definitely feel kind of weak in ME2.

So her character is much more interesting in ME2; but her combat abilities have definitely taken a major hit considering she no longer has Sabotage or her amped up shields from ME1.

[Collider]

Nah, she's fine. Combat Drone saved Shep plenty of times. At least if you're playing on a harder difficulty. And Energy drain destroys Synthetics and shields, which is particularly useful because of a lot of powers don't get through to enemies with shields. AI hacking doesn't get through with shields, for example.

Modifié par Collider, 07 février 2010 - 09:11 .

[hawat333]

SharpEdgeSoda wrote...

They're like hardcore Mac fans. Technically a minority, but they're so loud and preachy you'd swear they own the world. 

Exactly.

Anyways, stating that she's the most popular character is not enitrely valid. You can't get a reasonable sample size. Just mentioning, since I know no Tali while a lot of colleagues play this game. They are simply the silent majority. Or simply doesn't crawl around the forums.

[Destructo-Bot]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

In relation to the total number of consumers of ME, there aren't. Tali fans are just REALLY vocal.

Hey! Add me to your friends list... I also enjoy making wild assumptions that fit my preconceptions.

On a less sarcastic note, not all buyers particpate on this forum. We can use the forum as a statistically significant sample however, accounting for self-selection bias as best we can. There are a large number of people on the forum that enjoy that character, and we can draw a fairly reasonable conclusion that the distribution of "fans" on the fourm represents the greater whole.

You can't say that everyone that isn't on the forum doesn't conform to what is represented on the forum. That is nothing more than wild speculation, with no statistical relevance at all. You can only draw conclusions from your represented sample.

"The silent majority feels X way" is the favorite fallback for someone who wishes to contradict what other people think despite all evidence AGAINST that persons pet notion.

Paraphrased:
"Two million people bought the game, but 2 million people didn't post about such and such issue, therefore they all agree with how I feel so the opinion of the legion of folk posting here is invalid."

ANYONE that uses "the silent majority" fallacy is being intellectually dishonest.

Modifié par Destructo-Bot, 07 février 2010 - 09:20 .

[KOS-MOS56]

We are Legion... secret geth society of quarian lovers... and we have "intentionally infiltrated"

[seyera]

DarchAngelDavid wrote...

seyera wrote...

DarchAngelDavid wrote...

Hate or love who you like but at the end of the day numbers dont lie. If Tali didnt have a strong fan base and if they were not vocal about the character things would be different. She does and they listened. Who's fault is that? If you have a voice speak out and fight for what you want. Bio Ware is out there to make money and if they see the fans asking for something that they can do and make money off of it then more then likely it will happen. Dont hate because a thread has a high count. Get out there an speak about what matters to you and get a high count for your personal passion. It doesnt matter if there are only 5 or 100 people talking about Tali or Miranda or Liara or who ever. They are talking and showing Bio Ware what they have an interest in. If you don't do the same for what you like it is your own fault.

Yes, BioWare responded by enabling you to kill her. It seems a lot forget that, they just focus on the fact she was made a LI.

You can kill everyone in the game including yourself so what is your point?

Actually, you can't kill Liara.

My point is sure BW allowed her to be an LI, but at the same time they allowed you to kill her. Her fan base doesn't prevent her from being dead in any number of games. I don't see how this appeases fans. If anything it would make me worried about her role in ME3. Why would BW expend so much effort on a character that can be dead (this goes for all ME2 squad)? So BW did listen, but will they again? I am sure they know to appease other fans now. As you said BW wants to make money. They won't just cater to one group of people.

[Gabey5]

they are a loud minority

[AngryTigerP]

Gabey5 wrote...

they are a loud minority

Evidence?

[Jhourney]

I'm sure it has been said before, but I think a lot of the Tali swoonage is an excellent played out part from Bioware by giving the girl a mask. Leaving something to the imagination always drives people crazy. There's chemistry and Bioware never showing her face is like oil on that fire no doubt.

Which is why I found it funny they are still hiding her face, it draws the eager crowd to ME3 *chuckles*

[ComTrav]

Jhosephine wrote...

I'm sure it has been said before, but I think a lot of the Tali swoonage is an excellent played out part from Bioware by giving the girl a mask. Leaving something to the imagination always drives people crazy. There's chemistry and Bioware never showing her face is like oil on that fire no doubt.
Which is why I found it funny they are still hiding her face, it draws the eager crowd to ME3 *chuckles*

Yeah, I'm thinking the mystery adds a lot to it. It seems like there's a lot of divergence on what people expect Tali to look like. Everyone has their own, ideal Tali. And even though she was in the first game, she never had her eyes load wrong.

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

EDarkness wrote...
I don't think most Tali fans are that way.  I'm a Tali fan (and also a fan of other characters as well), and I don't act that way.  Not saying there aren't a couple rotten apples in the bunch, but overall the fanbase is pretty respectful.  No idea why people let the few sway their opinion instead of leveling that hate at the offending person individually.

Yeah, I guess you're right. It's fewer than I thought, after looking at some random pages in those threads.

[Sapienti]

Its really weird thinking you're in a minority only to find out that you fall into some hated minority or large majority. I like Tali she's charming in a lot of ways. In this game she was more vocal and she's got the kind of personality to appeal to fans of the "cute girl" persona, I suppose you could say. And as someone already said, her stammering admitance to her feelings was painfully adorable. When I played this game, I wasn't even sure Tali was re-recruitable let alone a love interest. When I saw her on (insert first colony name here) I was just happy to see a friendly face. "Oh snap its Tali"

The same reasoning went behind why I picked Liara first playthrough on ME1 (but then I went for the war hardened Ash every playthrough after that). When I found out she was a love interest I was torn between Miranda's fantastic cheeks or Tali's charm. I went for Tali simply because I think it'd be awesome to see that evolve in ME3...if it evolves. It had better or I'll have to choke somebody. I can't be the only who thinks there should be more than just a sex reward for building a relationship. Changes in battles or abilities with a deeper loyalty system would be the cat's pajamas.

"What could I possibly be suggesting? I mean, a young woman gets
saved by a dashing commander who lets her join his crew and then goes
off to save the galaxy? How could she possibly develop any kind of
interest in him?"

[AlloutAce]

Most of the team applies to different demographics, Tali is unique in that she is caring, but also young, driven, and shy. I personally like Tali's character very much. Her character relates too me, in that she has just finished her pilgrimage and is trying to earn her place in the world. Her character is at a similar point in her life, as I. She relates too all those 16-25 yr olds out there who have just matured, and have yet too build there careers, and who they are. She is also very charming, making her easy to like by every1.

Modifié par AlloutAce, 07 février 2010 - 10:59 .

[--Master of All--]

IMO, what's attractive about Tali is the element of mystery. You don't know what she looks like (and probably never will), and because of that, you can project your ideal onto her. Kind of like an internet relationship. That said, she doesn't do much for me.

[--Master of All--]

seyera wrote...
 Why would BW expend so much effort on a character that can be dead (this goes for all ME2 squad)?

Now that is a good question. Of course, the alternative is having a ship full of uninteresting and expendable meat shields, but still, it makes you wonder why they chose to focus so heavily on building you an interesting squad, only to most likely ditch them or toss them under the bus for ME3.

Modifié par --Master of All--, 07 février 2010 - 11:05 .

[Archilochos]

Why so hung up on the majority/minority question?  The bottom line re: Tali is: for whatever reason, the writers opted to write her into ME2.  Personally, despite the much lauded "Talimance" campaign, I'm not convinced it was purely a matter of fan pressure that worked her into the story.  Forum fans like to think we're important, but come on - forum polls are NOT and have NEVER been good data; they're totally unscientific.  Even just looking at thread topics is pretty useless when posters are only a fraction of your audience.  Do devs like to drop in easter eggs and such as a nod to forumites?  Sure.  (Game salesmen?  Turian+Quarian on Ilium?  "Go for the optics?")  But come on - Bioware and/or EA likely have marketing people who use reliable research methods for this stuff.

Why might Tali be in ME2 (and 3?), other than fanservice?

It seems pretty clear that decaying suns + dark energy may be a BIG setup for REAPER PLOT # 3 in ME3, not to mention the Geth ... and Tali + Quarians are pretty tied into those plotlines, making Tali a convenient add for writers.  Presence of Legion upped the odds for presence of Tali in ME2.

Why might Tali be romanceable in ME2 (and 3?), other than fanservice?

Well, the whole torturous the-galaxy-rationality-and-biology-itself-are-against-us romance angle certainly fits the whole "epic" design philosophy.  The name of her combat drone is clearly similar to Chiktika Fast Paws, the fictional deity of choice of Aerie from BG2, suggesting that someone realized Tali's personality is similar to Aerie's (minus the whiny melodrama), and thought an homage / reference might be appropriate.

More to the point, does it matter why?  The game is good.  The next game is likely to be good.  We like good games, even if we don't use all the characters all the time.  Also, without Tali+Garrus romance, we'd have missed out on some of the best relationship advice dialogue EVER.  (Thank you, Dr. Mordin Solus!)

Re: combat - Tali is awesome depending on your class/tactics/squad setup.  Having her badass shotgun and her drone stick close by and keep husks off me saved this infiltrator's ass on the derelict Reaper, facilitating brutal Scion sniper kills.

All that said, even though I do qualify as a Tali fan, I've never spent much time in the Tali threads.  If the posters there are reasonable, I still don't need to read my own opinions.  If the posters there are unreasonable (or creepy), I don't want to read their opinions.  In conclusion, a salute to my fellow Tali fans who don't alienate non-Tali fans.  (It would be cool to see the plucky Quarian again in 3).

edited for clarity.

Modifié par Archilochos, 07 février 2010 - 11:20 .

[i love lamp x3]

miranda has the most appeal for the average guy, but the average guy doesnt go on these boards, especially not to post how much they love their li 50,000 times. because the nerdier crowd likes tali and we're the only people lame enough to go on here all the time and share it with everyone. im not afraid to admit it

also we've all liked her since me1.. not too long after i beat me1 the week following the christmas it was released i googled i love tali and there were a bunch of message boards that came up. i tried romancing tali in me1 but it didnt work. and of the 4 completed saves i have, 1 was with ashley, and 3 were celebate (ashley was an annoying racist and liara was laaame)


the person who said we're like hardcore mac fans... exactly. macs only account for 8% of the market.. the rest is almost all microsoft but the vocal fans make it seem like it's actually a competition.

Modifié par i love lamp x3, 07 février 2010 - 11:42 .

[Sapienti]

Archilochos wrote...

Why so hung up on the majority/minority question?  The bottom line re: Tali is: for whatever reason, the writers opted to write her into ME2.  Personally, despite the much lauded "Talimance" campaign, I'm not convinced it was purely a matter of fan pressure that worked her into the story.  Forum fans like to think we're important, but come on - forum polls are NOT and have NEVER been good data; they're totally unscientific.  Even just looking at thread topics is pretty useless when posters are only a fraction of your audience.  Do devs like to drop in easter eggs and such as a nod to forumites?  Sure.  (Game salesmen?  Turian+Quarian on Ilium?  "Go for the optics?")  But come on - Bioware and/or EA likely have marketing people who use reliable research methods for this stuff.

Why might Tali be in ME2 (and 3?), other than fanservice?

It seems pretty clear that decaying suns + dark energy may be a BIG setup for REAPER PLOT # 3 in ME3, not to mention the Geth ... and Tali + Quarians are pretty tied into those plotlines, making Tali a convenient add for writers.  Presence of Legion upped the odds for presence of Tali in ME2.

Why might Tali be romanceable in ME2 (and 3?), other than fanservice?

Well, the whole torturous the-galaxy-rationality-and-biology-itself-are-against-us romance angle certainly fits the whole "epic" design philosophy.  The name of her combat drone is clearly similar to Chiktika Fast Paws, the fictional deity of choice of Aerie from BG2, suggesting that someone realized Tali's personality is similar to Aerie's (minus the whiny melodrama), and thought an homage / reference might be appropriate.

More to the point, does it matter why?  The game is good.  The next game is likely to be good.  We like good games, even if we don't use all the characters all the time.  Also, without Tali+Garrus romance, we'd have missed out on some of the best relationship advice dialogue EVER.  (Thank you, Dr. Mordin Solus!)

Re: combat - Tali is awesome depending on your class/tactics/squad setup.  Having her badass shotgun and her drone stick close by and keep husks off me saved this infiltrator's ass on the derelict Reaper, facilitating brutal Scion sniper kills.

All that said, even though I do qualify as a Tali fan, I've never spent much time in the Tali threads.  If the posters there are reasonable, I still don't need to read my own opinions.  If the posters there are unreasonable (or creepy), I don't want to read their opinions.  In conclusion, a salute to my fellow Tali fans who don't alienate non-Tali fans.  (It would be cool to see the plucky Quarian again in 3).

edited for clarity.

I'll quote this for the good points made. And to say, I did pick up on the hints that the Quarians may play a larger roll in ME3. The entire mission recruiting her had a plot that seemed irrelevant to ME2 but still pretty important.  Not to mention Legion. Also Quarians are the only race so far to have both Genders represented rather than simply implied. This just got me thinking on more possiblities for ME3 that I never even thought about. Next to Garrus Legion is probably my favorite character and him having a pivotal roll would be awesome (and a red alt color)