41 réponses à ce sujet

[Average Gatsby]

So I'm replaying the game as an Adept, and my goal is to, as much as I can, only use the pistol. I'm also going to be experimenting with both to see which one is better. I have seen the Gamefaqs chart on pistol damage, so I know that it seems from the data that the hand cannon has more raw power, but I'm trying to include other factors, like ammo capacity and clip size, to get at what is most effective.

Here's my first gameplay video on the subject: Pistol Comparisons Part 1

Here's part 2. Its more extensive and I'm starting to arrive at some conclusions: Pistol Comparisons Part 2 

What do you think? I know I didn't even consider the M-3 Predator after I got the M-6 Carnifax, but on this playthrough, I think the M-3 MAY have more overall utility than the M-6. But I don't know, hence the creation of this thread and my playthrough videos.

Modifié par Average Gatsby, 09 février 2010 - 02:04 .

[Unshkblefaith]

When I played through on Insanity I fell back to the M-3 Predator. It is by far the weaker but is advantageous in that you can really unload on enemies when you are getting rushed by several at once. The M-6 simply runs out of ammo too quickly to provide an effective means crowd control.

[thisisme8]

Unshkblefaith wrote...

When I played through on Insanity I fell back to the M-3 Predator. It is by far the weaker but is advantageous in that you can really unload on enemies when you are getting rushed by several at once. The M-6 simply runs out of ammo too quickly to provide an effective means crowd control.

I tend to agree.  I'm doing a Hardcore Vanguard run right now using maxed out Squad Cryo Ammo, and I get more bang for my buck with the M-3 Predator.

It felt like when the numbers are raised due to other ammo types (AP or Inferno), the M-3 came out on top.  Also, I cringe whenever I miss with the Hand Cannon...  and the Claymore for that matter.

[The_mango55]

Unshkblefaith wrote...

When I played through on Insanity I fell back to the M-3 Predator. It is by far the weaker but is advantageous in that you can really unload on enemies when you are getting rushed by several at once. The M-6 simply runs out of ammo too quickly to provide an effective means crowd control.

Eh, if I really need to unload on someone I switch to the Tempest.

I guess if you really want to only use the pistol the M-3 would work, but the Carnifex is just so much better in most situations.

[deusofnull]

This info is great. Ill switch to the lighter pistol next time I can

[Average Gatsby]

***Edit*** I fixed the link. Don't know what the prob was.

[BrandonHeat42]

for what its worth the M-6 with cryo is a one hit freeze on most enemies

[stillnotking]

If you're trying to use the pistol exclusively (why?) then you are definitely limited to the starting one, because the Carnifex will run out of ammo far too quickly.

[SmilingMirror]

SMG gets the extra bullets upgrade. Plus i use an avenger so i really never run out of automatic fire.

Hand cannon has such a great penetration rate i think you'd almost have to keep it with you....its so accurate.

Modifié par SmilingMirror, 07 février 2010 - 09:23 .

[TheShizzo]

Unshkblefaith wrote...

When I played through on Insanity I fell back to the M-3 Predator. It is by far the weaker but is advantageous in that you can really unload on enemies when you are getting rushed by several at once. The M-6 simply runs out of ammo too quickly to provide an effective means crowd control.

I agree with this.  If only the hand cannon had more ammo....

[jgarcia916]

thisisme8 wrote...

Unshkblefaith wrote...

When I played through on Insanity I fell back to the M-3 Predator. It is by far the weaker but is advantageous in that you can really unload on enemies when you are getting rushed by several at once. The M-6 simply runs out of ammo too quickly to provide an effective means crowd control.

I tend to agree.  I'm doing a Hardcore Vanguard run right now using maxed out Squad Cryo Ammo, and I get more bang for my buck with the M-3 Predator.

It felt like when the numbers are raised due to other ammo types (AP or Inferno), the M-3 came out on top.  Also, I cringe whenever I miss with the Hand Cannon...  and the Claymore for that matter.

I would have to agree as well. The M-3 might not be as powerful but was did have a higher rate of fire. Combine that with Inferno Ammo, and it is similar to the avenger assault rifle in power and your firing as fast as you can pull the trigger.

[Average Gatsby]

stillnotking wrote...

If you're trying to use the pistol exclusively (why?) then you are definitely limited to the starting one, because the Carnifex will run out of ammo far too quickly.

I'm trying to only use the pistol because I feel the other weapon comparisons are really obvious. Especially the smg. I've already compared snipers on the previous Infiltrator playthrough, so its more of a personal goal than a tactical reason. Plus, I really like the idea of owning with pistols. I don't think they are particularly harder or anything like that, but there is something to say about taking down krogan by clicking furiously as fast as you can.

[Looy]

The best way to play pistol classes is to use the SMG most of the time, then switch to the Hand cannon when a tough enemy or an enemy at long range appears.

[RiouHotaru]

Yeah, I was always bothered by the lack of ammo for the Hand Cannon, despite it's impressive stopping power (Headshot + Visor + Pistol Upgrades = Raep), and found that the reliable rate of fire and higher clip/magazine ammo count on M-3 was more forgiving.



Now, in the case of your allies, give them the Hand Cannon, and they eat people alive, since their aim is uncanny. (Not to mention no ammo restriction)

[lessthanjake9]

I think that you are right about the 2nd heavy pistol not having enough ammo in SOME cases.

That is, if you are trying to shoot a lot, then you will likely run out of ammo. However, I played through with a Sentinel and always took the 2nd heavy pistol with me. I must have only run out of ammo with it a few times the whole game. This is simply because I was throwing out powers a lot. That was most of my offense and the pistol shooting was just a filler if there was a good open target to shoot. In that case, the Carniflex is better because it wil do more damage.

I think I could've had more sustained DPS in my playthrough if I had constantly shot during power cooldowns. I didn't though, because I didnt usually feel it was worth the damage taken from popping up to shoot unless an enemy was away from cover (allowing me to unload on him without him being able to just go back in cover). I suppose if someone wanted to play a more sustained shooting sort of caster, then the Predator pistol would be best, though.

[RiouHotaru]

Yeah, as an Infiltrator, I took the M-3 because I wanted a sidearm with a higher ammo count. I think something like an Adept would want the Hand Cannon for the punch.

[Average Gatsby]

I now have the second part of my pistol comparison, this time against collectors instead of blood pack.

[FoFoZem]

They're good videos with good commentary. i hit "subscribe" but it wouldn't let me

[Grand_Commander13]

Nice videos but I don't share your conclusion. What I end up seeing is that the Carnifex is far superior for a heavy pistol's primary purpose: removal of armor. Unless you're relying on your pistol as your primary weapon, despite the perfectly good Shuriken you start with, the ammo capacity of the Carnifex is enough for it to do its job well. I am surprised how anemic it is against barriers and health though, when compared to the Predator. Not worse, but hardly better.

[RamsenC]

I prefer the Hand Cannon for the most damage and better pierce. It also shoots plenty fast and unless you use it as a primary weapon ammo should not be a problem. If ammo weren't an issue I'd probably use it over any other AR for long range battles.

Modifié par RamsenC, 09 février 2010 - 04:37 .

[Average Gatsby]

Grand_Commander13 wrote...

Nice videos but I don't share your conclusion. What I end up seeing is that the Carnifex is far superior for a heavy pistol's primary purpose: removal of armor. Unless you're relying on your pistol as your primary weapon, despite the perfectly good Shuriken you start with, the ammo capacity of the Carnifex is enough for it to do its job well. I am surprised how anemic it is against barriers and health though, when compared to the Predator. Not worse, but hardly better.

Once I have a full answer I'll outline all my criteria and all of that, but right now I'm in the experimentation stage. I'm trying to go through using only the pistol to start with, for a straight up comparison. However I will be adding comments on using the pistol in combination with the M-4 MP and other weapons. I'm trying to pick easy weapon switch locations and new locations each time, but all I can say is its not over until its over hehe :happy:

[Average Gatsby]

FoFoZem wrote...

They're good videos with good commentary. i hit "subscribe" but it wouldn't let me

Youtubes account features have been down since 7 pm Pacific, so it seems no one can do anything account related. I can't even look at my own videos.

[Hiero Glyph]

Sadly the videos showed nothing worth noting. For the most part you spammed Singularity and always had one memeber of your squad using the Incisor. I thought you were trying to show the differences between the pistols?



The Hand Cannon has ammo issues but can still quickly put down enemies from almost any distance. The damage is often overkill as it will typically damage 33% of the enemy's health/armor per shot. In some cases using a 4th shot is simply wasteful as you only need to remove a fraction of their total health/armor. In this case you should not waste the shot from the Hand Cannon.



If you are using Cryo ammo then the Predator is indeed better as the goal is to lay status effects and not deal direct damage. In this case the added ammo is perfect. For dealing with armor the Hand Cannon still wins as it will strip away the defense faster than the Predator. Once the armor is gone you should alter your strategy and either switch to another weapon or use an ability. In your case it would be logical to throw Singularity, Hand Cannon the armor away and then watch the enemy get tossed.



Both pistols have their uses but you showed nothing of note in your video as you were too busy spamming Singularity and Warp and having a squadmate use the Incisor. Next time provide a situation where you can single out an enemy, pin them with Singularity and see which pistol works better against armor/health.

[Hiero Glyph]

double post.

Modifié par Hiero Glyph, 09 février 2010 - 05:49 .

[Average Gatsby]

Hiero Glyph wrote...

Sadly the videos showed nothing worth noting. For the most part you spammed Singularity and always had one memeber of your squad using the Incisor. I thought you were trying to show the differences between the pistols?

The Hand Cannon has ammo issues but can still quickly put down enemies from almost any distance. The damage is often overkill as it will typically damage 33% of the enemy's health/armor per shot. In some cases using a 4th shot is simply wasteful as you only need to remove a fraction of their total health/armor. In this case you should not waste the shot from the Hand Cannon.

If you are using Cryo ammo then the Predator is indeed better as the goal is to lay status effects and not deal direct damage. In this case the added ammo is perfect. For dealing with armor the Hand Cannon still wins as it will strip away the defense faster than the Predator. Once the armor is gone you should alter your strategy and either switch to another weapon or use an ability. In your case it would be logical to throw Singularity, Hand Cannon the armor away and then watch the enemy get tossed.

Both pistols have their uses but you showed nothing of note in your video as you were too busy spamming Singularity and Warp and having a squadmate use the Incisor. Next time provide a situation where you can single out an enemy, pin them with Singularity and see which pistol works better against armor/health.

I tried to show how ineffective the hand cannon was against barriered enemies. I also was trying to show how, when put in a situation where you cannot get access to more ammo, the weakness of the hand cannon really shows. I did spam my abilities, but thats because I was hoping to avoid dying

My first vid has more of what your looking for. For right now, I'm just trying to recreate gameplay situations, not necessarily a lab type situation. I can definitely do that, but I felt like it would be cheating a little bit to divorce the pistols from a real gameplay type situation.

For a straight damage comparison, the hand cannon wins hands down, but I think more factors go into a weapon's qualifier as "better" than a simple damage comparison. I think if that's what your looking for, there is a chart on Gamefaqs that has straight damage comparisons.