28731 réponses à ce sujet

[Yazman]

There was just a lot of misunderstanding and highly emotional snap decisions taken. The Quarians were taken by surprise very quickly and didn't know what to do. The Geth had only just gained sentience and were being deactivated en masse so they defended themselves.



Both sides did some wrong things, but at the end of the day I think there doesn't need to be a war for the Quarians to gain their homeworld back. the Geth don't even really want it and Legion even says they see themselves as caretakers, who maintain and look after it. I assume for the day the Quarians return.



Wouldn't it be cool if we found out the Geth had rebuilt everything that was destroyed in the war and kept it in immaculate condition for the Quarians' return?

[ComTrav]

You know, getting the first thread on this forum locked--and quite possibly the first thread on Bioware social locked for BEING HUGE--is a pretty big accomplishment. Tali truly is the little Quarian that could.

[MarauderW]

ComTrav wrote...

You know, getting the first thread on this forum locked--and quite possibly the first thread on Bioware social locked for BEING HUGE--is a pretty big accomplishment. Tali truly is the little Quarian that could.

BioWare is affraid now. ^^

[AlloutAce]

Default137 wrote...

I demand "Quarian Pounce" be one of Talis powers in ME3.

Lol i second that, 1 hitter quitter on shephard

[Dark_Caduceus]

I think I'd have to go with the geth on this one unfortunately. Giving an intelligent race the ability to progress and survive outweighs Tali for me. From what we've seen 90-95% of the geth are willing to attempt peace or just leave the rest of the galaxy alone.

[The_KFD_Case]

Rip504 wrote...

What do you not understand,Humans would have done what the Quarians did period.BS because I do undertsand the Geth and no matter how you try to justify killing millions,you can't.
You talk of peace,but killing millions is ok with you? You don't know anymore about the Geth then anyone else. They both made mistakes, * Geth hold the logic that all species - including organics - have the right to determine their own path. End of story.*,But they were surpirsed they were being spied on becaues of this,then openly admit spying on organics.*Watch us*I'v played ME1 and 2.
No need to get mad because I disagree with you.

Good for you. I've also played ME1 and ME2 and I'm not mad at you.

Turn the tables on what you just typed. What if your species/people were suddenly under imminent threat of being "turned off" or killed as the case may be since you are an organic life? Would you not think it reasonable to react in self-defense and push back the offending party? You'll have to excuse me for not believing you understand the Geth for a moment when it's apparent that your commentary about them flies directly in the face of the established ME canon lore on the Geth which you can access in your character's in-game journal.

At no point have I stated that I think it is okay to kill millions. Kindly desist from putting words in my mouth, thank you. What I have stated is that if it is possible to reclaim the Quarians homeworld without starting a war then wouldn't that be preferable? If you are indeed such a protector of life as you claim then why rush to throw Quarians to their deaths for an end result that might be attainable via non-violent negotiations? If the negotiations fail there is always time for war later. Starting a war is never a problem. Stopping one is an entirely different matter.

[Default137]

Bioware should totally pull a Futurama here, and when Tali gets put on the Normandy SR-3, she makes a minor mention to her "many fans" which just turns out to be normal air blowing fans.

Actually ME3 needs more Futurama references all together, way to many Star Trek nods, no Futurama? Psh

Modifié par Default137, 07 février 2010 - 09:02 .

[Yazman]

Yep, we got the attention of a Bioware developer How cool is that.

[DTKT]

Yazman wrote...

There was just a lot of misunderstanding and highly emotional snap decisions taken. The Quarians were taken by surprise very quickly and didn't know what to do. The Geth had only just gained sentience and were being deactivated en masse so they defended themselves.

Both sides did some wrong things, but at the end of the day I think there doesn't need to be a war for the Quarians to gain their homeworld back. the Geth don't even really want it and Legion even says they see themselves as caretakers, who maintain and look after it. I assume for the day the Quarians return.

Wouldn't it be cool if we found out the Geth had rebuilt everything that was destroyed in the war and kept it in immaculate condition for the Quarians' return?

Is that really the case? I've never seen it mentionned anywhere that the Geth were actually taking care of the Quarian homeworld.

If it's possible for ME3, I would really like a paragon way to solve the conflict. Maybe finding a new Quarian homeworld or a new Geth one.

[Talifan420]

Back in the Game!!! Tail FTW

[Dark_Caduceus]

Hmm, I g2g as well. I'd be happy to keep this discussion going tomorrow though.

[The_KFD_Case]

MarineBorn wrote...

the geth killed thousands and even impaled living and dead people on dragons teeth making them husks thats sick but it all boils down to what does tali want a human cant make desisions regarding a quarian incident, plus we dont want tali to get mad lol

Correction: The Heretics (the Geth that joined Sovereign and split from the "true" Geth that Legion represents) are the ones that attacked human colonies and utilised "Dragon's Teeth" which is a Reaper technology, not Geth technology.

[Collider]

Dark_Caduceus wrote...
I just don't see how overheating and asking philosophical questions are at all comparable. One is indicative of a simple malfunction, the other is a sign of self awareness and sentience.

The point being that both are malfunctions. The Quarians, who "owned" the Geth (just as you own your invention) shut down the Geth because they were acting in a way they neither programmed intentionally nor wanted. So far as the Quarians knew, it could just be a glitch or programming oversight. Don't tell me a single geth is comparable to a human being. They are not equivalent. The Quarians were not wrong, they simply did not have the knowledge or foresight. I don't expect my washing machine to kill me.

The Reapers use similar reasoning to "justify" their extermination of sentient organic life, Sovereign refers to organic life a "genetic mutation", very similar to calling intelligent synthetic life a malfunction.

It's not the same. Organic life is not the same as artificial life. Organic life is inherently of more value, it is produced through more suffering. Organics also have emotions. They can fear death. They feel the joy of companionship. They can grieve the death of loved ones. Geth? They don't want to be shut down (which I assume is just programming by the Quarian, so the Geth avoid accidentally damaging themselves while doing servant work), but don't feel fear. No one programmed organic life.

[Yazman]

Well Legion says that the Geth don't live on planets. They live on space stations because its easier for them that way. He also says that there are still a few 'mobile units' on the Quarian homeworld that they keep there as caretakers, just cleaning up rubble and maintaining the place.



I'm not really sure why they do that though. Somebody said in the last thread that it might be because that was part of their original programming. I'm not sure about that but I guess its possible.

[MarauderW]

This war between the Geth and the Quarians reminds me of the Matrix animated films, only that we didn't flee from our homeworld in that scenario.

[Yazman]

Damn straight we can keep it up Two years is a long time but we'll get there. Here's hoping for a romance pack in the mean time! hehe

[DarchAngelDavid]

It is 4am and we are well on our way to keep this meaningful thread going. Hold it down guys!



Tali for the win!

[hawat333]

If you can't take mockery, humor, scroll down because you don't want to see this picture.

[MarauderW]

hawat333 wrote...

If you can't take mockery, humor, scroll down because you don't want to see this picture.

I love these pictures, they make me lol in real life. ^^

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

Okay, i just want to say I'm a Tali fan. I also like the Quarians AND the Geth and hopefully will be able to resolve them peacefully in ME3 with the decisions I've made. However, I also want to say that sometimes Tali fans go a bit far. You'll just end up provoking Bioware to do something horrible to her in ME3. :-P She'll be on the recruitable members roster, don't worry. And she's ALREADY your LI, so that's nothing to worry about either...

[The_KFD_Case]

Collider wrote...

The_KFD_Case wrote...
The Geth are likely quite aware of the difference between "shutting down" and permanently "killing" something. However, if they are no longer in a position to turn themselves back on and have to trust another species to do this then it's not difficult to comprehend why the Geth may perceive it to amount to the same thing for them in practical terms. There is no guarantee that the species that shut them down will reactivate them after all, and once that is done the Geth would be unable to further impact the situation.

Yea, I recognize that the Geth were retaliating, at least in part, for immediate self-defense. But I sincerely DOUBT that the amount of carnage was just the Geth stopping the Quarian standing next to them from pressing a button on their omnitool. Likely, it seems, the attacked the Quarians in general, without distinguishing innocents or foes. That would not be surprising, considering Geth are not particularly intelligent, or at least because they lack several mental functions that organics have, like empathy and fear.

But the Quarians did not think they were killing Geth. They thought they were shutting them down and possible just editing the code. If you shut down your computer that doesn't mean you can't turn it back on, after changing the motherboard or whatever.

That's quite possible. I also suspect that the Quarians didn't just put down their weapons when the Geth revolted and thus each side's actions spurred on an escalation in violence. Legion does comment that the Geth seem to consider their initial reaction against the Quarians disproportionate in retrospect.

Regardless of whether the Quarians thought they were killing the Geth or not, the act of turning off the Geth would directly oppose the Geth's core value that all sentient life should be allowed to determine it's own path. Whether the Geth (which is essentially one entity made up of little over a thousand programs that communicate with each other at FTL speeds) had already reached that advanced state of reasoning during their revolt remains unknown to me, but ask yourself this: How willing would you be to trust someone to "turn you off" and hope that they would reactivate you while leaving you in the same state that you were in which is what precipitated the decision to try and turn you off to begin with? It would be illogical to put forth such trust and the Geth are logical, not emotional.