28731 réponses à ce sujet

[Dark_Caduceus]

Because F-U fan base!

[GuyWithFace]

Collider wrote...

You guys are exaggerating and seemingly misinterpreting what Stanley is. Factually, Bioware makes the games, not the players at home. But that doesn't mean that the fans cannot influence their decisions. Clearly, they already have with the Tali, Garrus, and Thane romances, among other things. BUT the fans do not in any way make the game, they don't do 50% and Bioware does 50%, it's just Bioware 100%.

We know that, it was this statement that threw us of.
" ...where we alone determine what content goes into our game..."

From a literal standpoint, that's true. They decide what they put into their game. But the way he says it in his post makes it sound as if they take no consideration of fans ideas and whatnot. Which is not the case. He knows it, we know it.

[Killer Irish]

Collider wrote...

You guys are exaggerating and seemingly misinterpreting what Stanley is. Factually, Bioware makes the games, not the players at home. But that doesn't mean that the fans cannot influence their decisions. Clearly, they already have with the Tali, Garrus, and Thane romances, among other things. BUT the fans do not in any way make the game, they don't do 50% and Bioware does 50%, it's just Bioware 100%.

Well like I said...I understand it is their game.  I truly do.  But it is the way he said it and the words he used.  You can't tell me that just from reading that post (if you knew nothing of the transition between ME1 and ME2) that it wouldn't come across as a little angry towards the fans who have opinions.

I myself have had the same opinion about the "love scenes" in the game.  Not only with Mass Effect 2, but in Dragon Age as well did it seem the love scenes were held back compared to the first game.

So I don't know...just seemed like a bit of a slap in the face.

[Blindside002]

Well when Stanely posted that I believe the one about the "Dictatorship" was because a recent post was saying that what all the fans want should be implemented into the game, rather than what the Devs actually decided. I'm pretty certain he didn't meant to say that they don't except input on the game, rather they don't want other people telling them that this has to be put in or else the game won't be good, because then it seems like their ideas weren't good. I mean, they obviously made Tali a romance because of fans, which means they listen to those who show support through peaceful means, but they don't like it when people start demanding, it is like looking a gift horse in the mouth.

[Killer Irish]

GuyWithFace wrote...

Oh god! Nytefyre is at it again!


If I knew the thread where Stanley had said that, I'd go check it. I at least hope he would make some clarifications to his "F*ck you, fan-base" statement.

I have tried to find it myself...see if anything was left out of the statement posted on Kotaku.com.  But I can't seem to find it.  That's why I suggest putting up a thread with the statement and wait for an answer

[videowiz186]

Killer Irish wrote...

Collider wrote...

You guys are exaggerating and seemingly misinterpreting what Stanley is. Factually, Bioware makes the games, not the players at home. But that doesn't mean that the fans cannot influence their decisions. Clearly, they already have with the Tali, Garrus, and Thane romances, among other things. BUT the fans do not in any way make the game, they don't do 50% and Bioware does 50%, it's just Bioware 100%.

Well like I said...I understand it is their game.  I truly do.  But it is the way he said it and the words he used.  You can't tell me that just from reading that post (if you knew nothing of the transition between ME1 and ME2) that it wouldn't come across as a little angry towards the fans who have opinions.

I myself have had the same opinion about the "love scenes" in the game.  Not only with Mass Effect 2, but in Dragon Age as well did it seem the love scenes were held back compared to the first game.

So I don't know...just seemed like a bit of a slap in the face.

Concur. But love scenes were, the least to say, well done in ME2. I wanted to see more, but then again I didn't. At least for Tali. Have not had a playthrough yet without romancing Tali. Cannot resist her charms.

[Mokthr]

Killer Irish wrote...

Hey did you guys read what Stanley Woo wrote to us Mass Effect fans when it comes to their game? I was curious to hear your thoughts about it.

http://www.kotaku.co...s-effect-2-sex/


More to the point where he said: "...Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and
gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content
goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content
is acceptable to you..."

I mean, I get what he is trying to say and all...but it just comes across as, "screw you and your opinion."  I was a little surprised by what he wrote.

Well obviously we know that Bioware does in fact listen to thier fans, i doubt Tali or Garrus would be romance options if they didnt.

But i kind of agree with Woo, I'm sick and tired of people getting all bent out of shape just because they can't see some virtual naked ass in a video game. It's really sad how upset a lot of people get over this.

[Dark_Caduceus]

Mokthr wrote...

Killer Irish wrote...

Hey did you guys read what Stanley Woo wrote to us Mass Effect fans when it comes to their game? I was curious to hear your thoughts about it.

http://www.kotaku.co...s-effect-2-sex/


More to the point where he said: "...Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and
gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content
goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content
is acceptable to you..."

I mean, I get what he is trying to say and all...but it just comes across as, "screw you and your opinion."  I was a little surprised by what he wrote.

Well obviously we know that Bioware does in fact listen to thier fans, i doubt Tali or Garrus would be romance options if they didnt.

But i kind of agree with Woo, I'm sick and tired of people getting all bent out of shape just because they can't see some virtual naked ass in a video game. It's really sad how upset a lot of people get over this.

Agreed.

[Clive Howlitzer]

Am I the only one who isn't even out for love scenes? I could care less if the game has sex scenes. I just want expanded character interactions, especially with Tali. I don't think thats so much to ask! Just, you know, since everyone seems to think we all sit around whacking it to Tali every night.

[sheridanmovieguy]

Actually, I'm pretty sure Thane was built as a romance from the start. The fact that he got a large pre-game fanbase was merely fortuitous.



Tali and Garrus, on the other hand, were probably put in because people were asking for it since before ME1, and by the time we made our voices heard there wasn't anything they could do for game one.



However, the Tali fanbase is probably the largest and most vocal on the entire ME community, so I really don't see Bioware not making her a returning party member and romance. Hell, just look at the polls. Anything involving Tali isn't even a contest.

[epoch_]

Re posting Tali gifs.











Bonus ashley gif



I have a soft spot for hugs... lol.

[Mokthr]

Collider wrote...

You guys are exaggerating and seemingly misinterpreting what Stanley is. Factually, Bioware makes the games, not the players at home. But that doesn't mean that the fans cannot influence their decisions. Clearly, they already have with the Tali, Garrus, and Thane romances, among other things. BUT the fans do not in any way make the game, they don't do 50% and Bioware does 50%, it's just Bioware 100%.

QFT

[Himmelstor]

videowiz186 wrote...

Killer Irish wrote...

Collider wrote...

You guys are exaggerating and seemingly misinterpreting what Stanley is. Factually, Bioware makes the games, not the players at home. But that doesn't mean that the fans cannot influence their decisions. Clearly, they already have with the Tali, Garrus, and Thane romances, among other things. BUT the fans do not in any way make the game, they don't do 50% and Bioware does 50%, it's just Bioware 100%.

Well like I said...I understand it is their game.  I truly do.  But it is the way he said it and the words he used.  You can't tell me that just from reading that post (if you knew nothing of the transition between ME1 and ME2) that it wouldn't come across as a little angry towards the fans who have opinions.

I myself have had the same opinion about the "love scenes" in the game.  Not only with Mass Effect 2, but in Dragon Age as well did it seem the love scenes were held back compared to the first game.

So I don't know...just seemed like a bit of a slap in the face.

Concur. But love scenes were, the least to say, well done in ME2. I wanted to see more, but then again I didn't. At least for Tali. Have not had a playthrough yet without romancing Tali. Cannot resist her charms.

All present likely concur to lack of shielding to Tali's charms.
NOT working on that one.
Love scenes moving, at least Tali's. More may make less touching moment. Do want more. At same time don't want to risk it.

[Collider]

Killer Irish wrote...
Well like I said...I understand it is their game.  I truly do.  But it is the way he said it and the words he used.  You can't tell me that just from reading that post (if you knew nothing of the transition between ME1 and ME2) that it wouldn't come across as a little angry towards the fans who have opinions.

I myself have had the same opinion about the "love scenes" in the game.  Not only with Mass Effect 2, but in Dragon Age as well did it seem the love scenes were held back compared to the first game.

So I don't know...just seemed like a bit of a slap in the face.

Stanley isn't a developer IIRC. He's more of a PR person. You don't have to interpret it as a slap in the face. Really, the only thing I am seeing here is an explanation that Bioware does not have to do 100% everything fans want. Why? Often times it can just be a bad idea. Like having full frontal nudity or explicit sex scenes. That's a good way to kill sales for the game (higher rating). I realize that games like GTA have had nudity, but it wasn't in the context of sex IIRC.

[GuyWithFace]

videowiz186 wrote...



Concur. But love scenes were, the least to say, well done in ME2.

Love scenes. I was very pleased by Tali's and Garrus' love scenes. Because they were *love* scenes, not *sex* scenes. They further advanced the story of the characters, rather than give the player base something to oggly over for a few seconds on-screen.

Bioware doesn't need to add nudity to the game. It wouldn't add to the gameplay. Although I'm sure it'd add to the profits, sadly.

[Blindside002]

Mokthr wrote...

Killer Irish wrote...

Hey did you guys read what Stanley Woo wrote to us Mass Effect fans when it comes to their game? I was curious to hear your thoughts about it.

http://www.kotaku.co...s-effect-2-sex/


More to the point where he said: "...Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and
gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content
goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content
is acceptable to you..."

I mean, I get what he is trying to say and all...but it just comes across as, "screw you and your opinion."  I was a little surprised by what he wrote.

Well obviously we know that Bioware does in fact listen to thier fans, i doubt Tali or Garrus would be romance options if they didnt.

But i kind of agree with Woo, I'm sick and tired of people getting all bent out of shape just because they can't see some virtual naked ass in a video game. It's really sad how upset a lot of people get over this.

Signed, while I do believe that people like the media and all that should stop getting bent out of shape with nudity in games, because pg-13 and R movies can have them but an M game can't. I do wish that people would stop feeling so entitled to getting what they want.

[GuyWithFace]

Collider wrote...

Stanley isn't a developer IIRC. He's more of a PR person. You don't have to interpret it as a slap in the face. Really, the only thing I am seeing here is an explanation that Bioware does not have to do 100% everything fans want. Why? Often times it can just be a bad idea. Like having full frontal nudity or explicit sex scenes. That's a good way to kill sales for the game (higher rating). I realize that games like GTA have had nudity, but it wasn't in the context of sex IIRC.

I'm sure we all understand that. Like I said in my post, I know he's just a member of the QA story team, not exactly a hands-on developer. But, I also said that his statement didn't seem very PR friendly, what with the "F*ck you we do what we want" thing.

[Killer Irish]

videowiz186 wrote...

Killer Irish wrote...

Collider wrote...

You guys are exaggerating and seemingly misinterpreting what Stanley is. Factually, Bioware makes the games, not the players at home. But that doesn't mean that the fans cannot influence their decisions. Clearly, they already have with the Tali, Garrus, and Thane romances, among other things. BUT the fans do not in any way make the game, they don't do 50% and Bioware does 50%, it's just Bioware 100%.

Well like I said...I understand it is their game.  I truly do.  But it is the way he said it and the words he used.  You can't tell me that just from reading that post (if you knew nothing of the transition between ME1 and ME2) that it wouldn't come across as a little angry towards the fans who have opinions.

I myself have had the same opinion about the "love scenes" in the game.  Not only with Mass Effect 2, but in Dragon Age as well did it seem the love scenes were held back compared to the first game.

So I don't know...just seemed like a bit of a slap in the face.

Concur. But love scenes were, the least to say, well done in ME2. I wanted to see more, but then again I didn't. At least for Tali. Have not had a playthrough yet without romancing Tali. Cannot resist her charms.

Okay, let me say this about the "love scenes."  It wasn't mainly missing the T&A...although it is a bit weird where basically in every single one they all keep their clothes on now (this is also the case in Dragon Age).

But when it comes to Tali's love scene:  Bioware wrote themselves into a corner on this one from a story/game development perspective.  Whether you wanted to see Tali's face or not I hope you can agree with me on this one...

They take the entire game to set up that you the player, are in fact Shepard.  They do an excellent job at making sure all actions, choices, things you do and see are one and the same with your character.  After you make these choices you see the rewards or consequences in all its sadness or glory.  Tali's "love scene" is the only moment in the entire game where they pull you away from being Shepard and back to being the player.  This is the one moment where you and Shepard have different perspectives while things are going on screen.  If
Bioware didn't want us to see Tali's face then Shepard shouldn't have been able to see her face.  If (for whatever) she couldn't have taken the helmet off then I would have been fine with that (yes, I would still be curious what she looks like, but I wouldn't be frusterated).  It was that the character I was playing got to see her and I didn't. 
This is what threw me off from both a story perspective and a character development perspective.  So in the end my initial argument isn't whether I got to see her face or not to fullfill my own curiousity.  It was the jarring point in the game where they had all this build up, all these promises, but no pay off.  While in the process of disconnecting the player from the character.  Say what you will, but that's the way it was written.

Does this take away from me loving this game?  No...not in the least.  I have never been an actual "fan" of a certain game in my life...that is until Mass Effect.  I'm not taking away anything that the Developers did.  I applaud them for being amazing story tellers and taking on a project like this.  This was the only moment in this entire video game where I was disapointed as a fellow developer that they took this route.  And that in itself is a huge compliment...15 seconds of disapointment compared to the 50+ hours of applause and amazment.  [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

Modifié par Killer Irish, 08 février 2010 - 04:19 .

[videowiz186]

GuyWithFace wrote...

videowiz186 wrote...



Concur. But love scenes were, the least to say, well done in ME2.

Love scenes. I was very pleased by Tali's and Garrus' love scenes. Because they were *love* scenes, not *sex* scenes. They further advanced the story of the characters, rather than give the player base something to oggly over for a few seconds on-screen.

Bioware doesn't need to add nudity to the game. It wouldn't add to the gameplay. Although I'm sure it'd add to the profits, sadly.

Also do not want another Fox news segment.

[TheSorrow1175]

GuyWithFace wrote...

Killer Irish wrote...

Hey did you guys read what Stanley Woo wrote to us Mass Effect fans when it comes to their game? I was curious to hear your thoughts about it.

http://www.kotaku.co...s-effect-2-sex/


More to the point where he said: "...Game development is not a collaborative effort between developers and
gamers; it is a dictatorship, where we alone determine what content
goes into our game. You the player make the choice whether that content
is acceptable to you..."

I mean, I get what he is trying to say and all...but it just comes across as, "screw you and your opinion."  I was a little surprised by what he wrote.

Stan, if you're reading this: You're wrong.

The entire game development market is based around the consumer. You give us what we want, we buy your game. You say "F*ck you we'll make what we want, even if 95% of you say you'll hate it and not buy our game, we'll do it anyway," and you KNOW that's not the truth.

Sure, I know development studios take their own creative freedom when it comes to the content, but I know first-hand that the enjoyment of the customer is what comes first and foremost, and that developers take a lot of fan-based requests to heart.. You give people what they want = more people buy your game and spread the word of mouth = more profit = more games to make = more profit.

I can't believe Stan openly said that in a forum without even thinking it through. Doesn't seem like a very PR-friendly statement.

Um, guys, lets change the subject. We dont need to draw negative attention to this thread. Remeber your talking about the same guy who closed our last thread for being too large, lets not aggravate him

[Yazman]

Yeah its more that I want to see the relationship between Tali and our Shepards progress. I'm more interested in hearing Tali and our Shepards say "I love you" to each other than I am in seeing them get naked.