59 réponses à ce sujet

[ReplicantZero]

Found the cinematics and music in the final mission as impressive as anything in ME1, if not more so. However to me some of the dialogues in this mission really jarred as being almost childish.

One that really sticks in my mind is Shepard's decision to blow up the Collector base. This is is a momentous choice, potentially affecting all life in the galaxy.

The reason my Shepard wanted to give to TIM would be along these lines: "You think this is an opportunity, but you don't really understand what you're dealing with here. Every attempt to use Reaper technology has backfired, and I've seen minds far greater than your own become tools of the Reapers. Sorry, but the risks of leaving this base intact are too great."

Instead Shepard gives her reason for blowing it up as "I won't let fear compromise who I am" like some self-obsessed teenager - as if the only important thing here is how it affects her. 

I don't know if the dialogue-writers changed, but I seem to remember dialogues being smarter and less 'emo' in ME1 (eg the way she pointed out to Saren in their first encounter that he was already indoctrinated and didn't even know it).

[Forwen]

Haven't heard that particular line (kept the base) but I'm with you on it. Shepard is a far too predetermined character in ME2 for my own comfort, and I don't think I like what I'm seeing. Shepard's lines are confusing, don't match what it says on the wheel, and tend to contradict themselves over time, which imo clearly shows the parts that were written by different writers.



One of the most annoying changes is that Shep tends to condemn/praise actions even though you don't want him/her to. Once my Shep did that in friggin' Investigate questions! In Mordin's loyalty mission Shep will condemn Mordin no matter what if you do so much as ask questions about his work. Keep the Investigate options neutral, dammit! Especially if 10 minutes later you give me the option to flat out support the genophage!

[MaaZeus]

Agreed, it was bit self centered response. Probaply completely right, as I wouldnt want to sacrifice my soul nor my species soul in that situation either, but the way Shepard put it to words was bit emo, good and idealistic but still emo. Your version would have been much better as it would have given Illusive Man something to chew on too, though it propably wouldnt change his mind on this but still...

Modifié par MaaZeus, 07 février 2010 - 12:48 .

[Forwen]

^ I disagree, why voice a reason at all? I'd rather have my own reasons.

[The Capital Gaultier]

That's one of the themes of the game. Apparently, being a medical recreation has worn a bit on the old ego.

[KainrycKarr]

I personally don't feel the need to explain myself beyond that, to TIM. He can shove it, and keep wondering why, for as long as he wants.

[xMister Vx]

Yes, sometimes he has lines that just come from nowhere. He was obviously thinking what you wrote, but said it in a confusing way.

It's like someone thought of a cool line, then after a couple of revisions the dialogue changed, but they still wanted to have that line. Hey, it'd be great, if it was part of a more heroic speech. Also, the "I" should have been replaced with "We".

On the other hand, he does say in the same dialogue that he is going to become the charismatic leader that this galaxy needs - so the accentuation of "I" is partially justified.

[Stofsk]

"I won't let fear compromise who I am" - doesn't sound like any self-obsessed emo teenager that I've ever met. So... I have to disagree. Idealistic yes, but whiny or emo? Nah.

[Stinkface27]

Funny that you pointed that out - on my first playthrough I kept the base, but I just today finished my Paragon playthrough and this exact line gave me the same reaction. Like, exactly what does blowing up the base have to do with YOU personally, Shepard? There are a thousand reasons to blow up the thing, and "staying true to yourself" is probably the least important one.



Don't get me wrong, I adored the game and I'm playing for a 3rd time now. But yes, that line in particular struck me as.. just off, I guess.

[MaaZeus]

stofsk wrote...

"I won't let fear compromise who I am" - doesn't sound like any self-obsessed emo teenager that I've ever met. So... I have to disagree. Idealistic yes, but whiny or emo? Nah.

Hmmm... True, perhaps emo was wrong word. Emo is more whiney, and Shepard wasnt like that. But it was still a wierd selfcentered line, especially for my Shepard that aimed to be very diplomatic. Its true that after finding out what an arse TIM is, I shouldnt have the need to explain myself but still a bit more epic answer would have been more fitting. Hell, Shepard is already used to giving epic speeched all the time. All he needs is "we hold the line" catch-phrase.

Modifié par MaaZeus, 07 février 2010 - 01:02 .

[Ballinasloe]

"Writing dialogue is hard." - Kevin Smith

[MaaZeus]

Ballinasloe wrote...

"Writing dialogue is hard." - Kevin Smith

Yes, and I wont hold Bioware a grudge for few wierdities. Writing in ME2 is 95% brilliant, and the reason why I love this game so much.

[Benethyarr]

Completely agree with the OP. That was exactly the reason I chose to destroy the station, and it seemed like a pretty obvious one to me - especially given the fate of the science team sent to investigate the 'dead' Reaper, which was a fairly recent event. Instead the game acts as if the only reasons for destroying the base are emotional ones (sentimentality and disgust, basically).

[The Capital Gaultier]

Benethyarr wrote...

Completely agree with the OP. That was exactly the reason I chose to destroy the station, and it seemed like a pretty obvious one to me - especially given the fate of the science team sent to investigate the 'dead' Reaper, which was a fairly recent event. Instead the game acts as if the only reasons for destroying the base are emotional ones (sentimentality and disgust, basically).

You are playing the role of Shepard.  It doesn't matter what you want to say - you play your part.

[Forwen]

Ballinasloe wrote...

"Writing dialogue is hard." - Kevin Smith

I really hope all those inconsistencies were a slip-up on BW's part and not a way to slowly introduce a canon Shep. Maybe I'm paranoid, but ME2 Shep already felt as if written with Soldier class in mind.

[Shepard Lives]

Ah hell, does it matter what Shepard says? IMO, short answer is "no". What really matters is how your responses affect the story. Obviously having Shep saying what you want him/her to helps a lot if you're trying to identify yourself with Shepard, and we would all want our character to say clever, awesome, epic things, but in the end what counts is how your dialogue choices affect the outcome.



I mean, let's say I don't want TIM to lay his filthy mitts on the Collector base. Does it matter if Shep says "I like apple pie and ponies" if in the end the result is what I want it to be? IMO, it doesn't matter very much.



Actually what ticked me off the most was Shepard saying random things in the middle of missions (like when he receives updates from EDI or finds upgrades). Felt way, waaaay too much like Gears Of War.

[Shepard Lives]

MaaZeus wrote...

Ballinasloe wrote...

"Writing dialogue is hard." - Kevin Smith

Yes, and I wont hold Bioware a grudge for few wierdities. Writing in ME2 is 95% brilliant, and the reason why I love this game so much.

Also, this.

[Taritu]

Yes, it did feel a bit strange. There was a "how can I trust you" line you could choose before that which was basically my reason, added to "and what makes you think you can avoid indoctrination this time?"



It's not about me, Shepard, it's about what's best for the galaxy.



Though really, I might have chosen option 3 - EMP pulse it, lead a council fleet back. I have the IFF, after all. That would also let me finally prove to the council that something is going on, rather than destroying my bloody evidence, again.

[GenericPlayer2]

Completely agree with OP. That is exactly what I wanted to say - but did not get a chance to say it.

[Urmar]

It may come down to development resources. Ideally, there would be 3-5 dialogue "trees" for every significant interaction, each with the appropriate logic and voice work. In Baldur's Gate (esp. BG 2), there are fairly exhaustive trees for most meaningful conversations. It basically requires the writers to consider all of the most likely roleplaying motivations/points of view and craft responses accordingly. In ME, the devs decided to simplify things a bit with a positive/neutral/negative structure, which is obviously simplified. In any event, ME is a shooter with a side of roleplaying/space opera and a dash of exploration.



Perhaps in this case there should have been a "destroy the station" choice followed by a "here's my reason, jackass" choice for the player to make where Shep explains his reasons. At some point, the devs have to say enough is enough. I personally am impressed by the amount of voice work that is already in the game ... but yeah, the ending kinda deserves the full treatment.



I agree that the dialogue in question (a) doesn't match the wheel text and ( seems to be missing a conversational step ... as in Shep gives his reason, then TIM challenges him, then Shep gives his "I won't compromise" dialogue.

[Forwen]

^ I'm personally not asking for moar complex dialogue trees (there seems to already be more writing for Shep in 2 than in 1, thanks BW), but to keep the existing responses more neutral. Rather than voice a reason, one of thousand possible ones, just inform TIM in a badass way that you're blowing this place to hell. I think ME1 handled such moments just fine, but 2 feels more limited.

[Kelanil]

Are some of you forgetting the Collector base basically liquifies people for its fuel and components? That seems like a major moral issue right there for those of you who seem to think keeping the base is ok. As for the line Shepard gives if you're a paragon it fits even if its not exactly ground breaking in dialogue.

[Forwen]

^ There are also arguably practical reasons to destroy the base. If you get a cynical Renegade to do it, listening to him/her proclaim that keeping it would compromise their moral integrity is an immersion breaker.

Modifié par Forwen, 07 février 2010 - 02:01 .

[The Capital Gaultier]

Forwen wrote...

^ There are also arguably practical reasons to destroy the base. If you get a cynical Renegade to do it, listening to him/her proclaim that keeping it would compromise their moral integrity is an immersion breaker.

You get Paragon points for the choice.

[Console Cowboy]

i don't think a thesis expounding all the reasons for destroying the base was necessary. it was a good line.