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[7Makaveli]

I wonder what Samara did before being a Justicar, as a Matron. Maybe she married rich so she wouldn't have to work lol who knows. Do you think her husband was someone in a high position in Asari society? Commence speculation on Asari societal hierarchies and...gold-digging haha.

Modifié par 7Makaveli, 24 avril 2010 - 03:23 .

[DirtyVagrant]

Well, if you pick Morinth over Samara, she gives an insight to what Samara was like as a Mother. But I dunno, of the few asari we've met (Liara and Samara), none really seem to shed light on the whole "father"-thing, whether they can or cannot. Could be a part of the shame of being a "pureblood" and not being the one to bear the child or.... maybe the "father" really isn't expected to have a big role in the upbringing of children.

[7Makaveli]

Asari 1:Honey, can I get a divorce?



Asari 2: What? why sweety, we're doing fine.



Asari 1: Well, its cause...I always wanted to be a father, this just isn't working for me.



Asari 2: Well, uh, here you can be the father now



Asari 1: What? just like that? what about the kids?



Asari 2: Oh, they're still young, they won't notice.



Asari 1: *facepalm*

[7Makaveli]

yorkj86 wrote...

*Cue laugh track*

[7Makaveli]

yorkj86 wrote...

[7Makaveli]

yorkj86 wrote...

is that when Jack hops up on the table while taking about being pirates, and Shepard flinches at her?

yes, one of the funniest scenes in the game

[Ashira Shepard]

I don't really blame Shepard for flinching, the memory of Jack ripping the Purgatory station a new one several times over would still be rather...vivid.



Oh and Makaveli? *lawls at the scene* I would probably facepalm as well...

[Whatcote Park]

Ah we're nearing page 200! Nearing on the Jack thread...

[Flamewielder]

Regarding Reave: I've also noticed it's less effective against husks but it's the one optional power I always take. Heavy incinerate works great against husks and "detonates" abominations...

I use Samara most of the time after recruiting her, the other squadmate providing variety and compensating for our relative weakness in close combat (I play Infiltrator). When I know I'll be facing husks (like the "bubble" part of the final mission, I'll put Samara in charge of the bubble and use Jack and Grunt with shotguns to keep the husks away while I incinerate/detonate abominations.

Regarding Samara's life as a Matron and mother: I get the feeling Samara probably had a couple of very happy early Matron years, before her children were diagnosed. Unless the asari use genome sequencing analysis on all infants, their condition may have been diagnosed at puberty. This makes it all the more heartbreaking for her, having known happiness before having it ripped away.

Heartbroken, Samara may have felt she had nothing else to live for, aside from stopping her daughter from killing again. That may have been sufficient motivation to join the Justicar order: a mother's sense of personal responsibility for the actions of her daughter. But another intriguing possibility comes to mind:

Speculation: What if Samara initially rejected the life of isolation that was to be her daughters' fate? What if she initially tried to set herself up to raise her family on a deserted island or other remote area? She may have attempted to give her daughters a semblance of a normal life, until Morinth chanced upon an cute unsuspecting asari stranger and did what every healthy, hormone-saturated adolescent eventually does when the circumstances are right... with tragic consequences in her case. Then, Samara's motivation to become a Justicar is no longer just a mother's sense of responsibility over her daughter's actions, but actual guilt over having allowed it to happen. Her Justicar Oath becomes a form of penance, which may explain why she refuses to give in to Shepard's advances even after Morinth is killed.

On the topic of asari fathers: As Liara says in ME1, a typical asari family often has only a single parent (mother). The "father" is often short-lived (if non asari) and an asari "father" may well want to become a "mother" herself, raising her own daughters. Asari matrons sound very independent and self-reliant, perhaps monoparental families are the norm, rather than the exception. Another obvious possibility is that asari daugthers may well have sisters from different "fathers" and that one sister's "father" may well be her sister's "mother".

Asari trace their genetic descent through the mother. Their lines of descent are matrilineal. Being a father is not a big deal, being a mother is central to an asari's existence. Spouses (assuming asari consider it important to "marry") may elect to live together and raise their respective daughters together, if only to increase survival chances. They obviously do not share our dual-gendered species role-models for "father" and "mother".

So Samara may have had 3 daugthers from different "fathers", some of whom may have been asari or not, and these "fathers" may have stayed around or not. I think Samara and her daughters would have been equally happy in either case.

Anyway, that's my contribution to the thread today. Gotta go back to work. Looking forward to read your take on this.

[Flamewielder]

yorkj86 wrote...

This line of reasoning seems to discount the closeness of the mind-joining and how dedicated bond-mates can be to one another (unless you're asserting that Liara was misled/misinformed...?)  Obviously, not all marriages last.  For the Asari, it's not uncommon for Asari "mothers" to raise her their daughters alone.  But you make it seem as if the process of raising a child is a solitary affair for the "mother", and something of no consequence for the "father".  If the one Asari on Illium who lost her bond-mate's locket is any indicator, the relationship between the "mother" and the "father" is very close.  Would you argue that this one instance is the exception, and not the rule?

I'm not finding substantial in-game evidence of how casual make the bond-mate experience out to be.  In contrast, I'm finding several in-game examples of the Asari treating it serously.  I know that Bioware retconned a lot of stuff about the Asari in ME2, but what you're saying is a bit much.

I agree that in many cases the bond between mates may be quite strong and might even be for life. What I question is the relative importance of the "father" in an asari child's life. I get the impression that asari parenting differs in this important aspect from human parenting, where each gender contributes a role-model for the child's development. In pre-space-faring asiari society, you had only mothers. Both spouses can bear children, each being essentially a mom. A Turian father may provide perspective to his asari daughter on Turian values and mentality, biology, food preferences, there will be affection/love in the sense we are familiar with, but he's not contributing as a gender-specific role-model.

We, as human parents, provide our children with their first gendre-specific model. As they grow up, they will gauge other men and women (and themselves) using us as their first template. In a mono-gendered species, you only need one parent to learn how to act among asari. A Batarian father will provide a template for what a child will expect from batarian (males). From the father's perspective, it changes nothing: it's his daughter, he loves her and will learn about being a parent. The child will love her father (if present) but she'll be imprinting on her mother as primary parent model.

Mating outside their own species has broadened asari outlook considerably, with children enjoying intimate insight into their "father" species (assuming they spent suffient time with them as they grew up). They are, in this aspect "enlightened" as far as their "father" species is concerned. No wonder they make succesful diplomats and businesswomen.

[Lotus72]

Disclaimer

Been following this thread for just a month. So my apologies in case the following was
discussed already. Replaying/probing some of the alternative cut scenes with
her here are my thoughts about her reappearance in ME3:

 
On a positive note…

If Sheps answer at the last conversation goes along the ‘glad-we’re-friends’ route, her
answer is ‘call upon me for aid anytime after this.  I will come for you’. One could speculate
this might be a solid indication for her reappearance in ME3… 
 

On a negative note …

I think Bioware used Kasumi’s voice to indicate quite clearly that they do NOT plan to
have her as a LI in ME3 – Kasumis statement was actually quite strong in case
you went the attempted LI path. Kasumi was also used in other instances to
voice Bioware’s opinions (in my view). So this does not bode well for
those hoping for a ME3 or romance pack LI …   
 
In any case - and despite Bioware’s statements that ME always being planned as trilogy -
(Matrix trilogy come to mind as mentioned in other threads): I think they made
ME much more of a stand-alone RPG. If it wouldn’t have been as successful as it
was, the story would have ended right there.

While ME2 and ME3 seem to be parts of the same story albeit with different focus. ME2
being the ‘build team’ part, ME3 focusing on the actual mission. So also from
that point of view I see options having all surviving team members re-appear in
ME3 - and not just as cameos.

 
BTW - and pure speculation: my impression was also that Samara’s role could have been an attempt at catering more towards ‘older’ players. Why? Her role is very recognisable by those playing
traditional/old-style RPGs (lawful neutral Pallies etc.). Her story could make
her somewhat believable for those who’ve progressed a bit further in life - and
perhaps experienced similar situations. Of course without the killing bit in
the end . Similar to Thane btw.  

And I know quite a few age 40 + players who got very interested in the father-son /
mother-daughter backgrounds of those 2. At the same time those folks totally dismissed someone like
Tali as ‘kiddie stuff’ or ‘immature’. Probably will get roasted for this …

Last but not least: Samara is unfortunately one of the models where voice actor and face
model were represented by different persons (unlike Miranda etc.). This might make
it a bit more tedious for Bioware to have her back in full force. Especially when
they plan on upgrading the graphics (though still using same engine).

 
In any case – let’s hope for the best. I got saves for every possible outcome with her so I’m prepared  

Modifié par Lotus72, 24 avril 2010 - 03:53 .

[LiquidGrape]

yorkj86 wrote...

Whatcote Park wrote...

Ah we're nearing page 200! Nearing on the Jack thread...

And since the two threads share a lot of the same posters, the Samara thread will probably always be close to the Jack thread in number of pages.  Which is okay with me.

Us people of good taste much stick together, eh?

[7Makaveli]

Lotus72 wrote...

Disclaimer

Been following this thread for just a month. So my apologies in case the following was
discussed already. Replaying/probing some of the alternative cut scenes with
her here are my thoughts about her reappearance in ME3:

 
On a positive note…

If Sheps answer at the last conversation goes along the ‘glad-we’re-friends’ route, her
answer is ‘call upon me for aid anytime after this.  I will come for you’. One could speculate
this might be a solid indication for her reappearance in ME3… 
 

On a negative note …

I think Bioware used Kasumi’s voice to indicate quite clearly that they do NOT plan to
have her as a LI in ME3 – Kasumis statement was actually quite strong in case
you went the attempted LI path. Kasumi was also used in other instances to
voice Bioware’s opinions (in my view). So this does not bode well for
those hoping for a ME3 or romance pack LI …   
 
In any case - and despite Bioware’s statements that ME always being planned as trilogy -
(Matrix trilogy come to mind as mentioned in other threads): I think they made
ME much more of a stand-alone RPG. If it wouldn’t have been as successful as it
was, the story would have ended right there.

While ME2 and ME3 seem to be parts of the same story albeit with different focus. ME2
being the ‘build team’ part, ME3 focusing on the actual mission. So also from
that point of view I see options having all surviving team members re-appear in
ME3 - and not just as cameos.

 
BTW - and pure speculation: my impression was also that Samara’s role could have been an attempt at catering more towards ‘older’ players. Why? Her role is very recognisable by those playing
traditional/old-style RPGs (lawful neutral Pallies etc.). Her story could make
her somewhat believable for those who’ve progressed a bit further in life - and
perhaps experienced similar situations. Of course without the killing bit in
the end . Similar to Thane btw.  

And I know quite a few age 40 + players who got very interested in the father-son /
mother-daughter backgrounds of those 2. At the same time those folks totally dismissed someone like
Tali as ‘kiddie stuff’ or ‘immature’. Probably will get roasted for this …

Last but not least: Samara is unfortunately one of the models where voice actor and face
model were represented by different persons (unlike Miranda etc.). This might make
it a bit more tedious for Bioware to have her back in full force. Especially when
they plan on upgrading the graphics (though still using same engine).

 
In any case – let’s hope for the best. I got saves for every possible outcome with her so I’m prepared  

These are good points. As far as Samara having different VA and face model, I don't think that is going to be as big an obstacle for bringing back Samara as a case of serious writer's block when it comes to developing her story more. Now, I don't expect ME3 to be this squad oriented, if anything it will probably go back to ME1 style of recruiting where you run into people in stride as you pursue the villains and look for clues. This means that a core cast of (Cerberus/Alliance members, Liara, Tali and Garrus) are highly likely to come back at some point in the game. While the fringe characters that we've met in ME2 could be relegated to cameo roles where they help you gain "access" to the next level in the game (so you will meet them if they are alive). If they are really creative and want to go balls out to try and satisfy everyone (escpecially considering that ME2 has expanded the market for its franchise) they will try and make situations where you can have squadmates based on how you've treated them in the past, taking into account loyalty, death, etc.Then, if appropriate, try to personalize the characters even more than they have because then its like having a cardboard cutout of your favorite character just for combat purposes. But this is assuming that all the squad has bought into the Reaper threat, and don't look at this mission as a, hey if you solve my problems, I'll be on your mission.

So now I ask everyone here, where does a just warrior who has fulfilled her most pressing obligation-400 years in the making- go now?