Aller au contenu

Samara thread


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
13634 réponses à ce sujet

#4751
7Makaveli

7Makaveli
  • Members
  • 1 410 messages

yorkj86 wrote...

7Makaveli wrote...

So now I ask everyone here, where does a just warrior who has fulfilled her most pressing obligation-400 years in the making- go now?


She goes to convince the Asari to get their blue butts in gear.


But when has it been that easy? I don't have to tell you to look at what they did to Liara, that speaks for itself. They can find ways to tie up a character irrationally, so even if its very reasonable to assume that Samara, as wise and mature as she is, will understand that Shepard still needs her help against even more suicidal odds, history of bioware writing for ME1 characters to ME2 tells us it probably won't happen. What kind of irrational situation do you think they can tangle Samara with in ME3? Remember, we weren't giving any indication of foreshadowing that Liara would go to the "darkside" and become obsessed with this other task. We weren't given indication that Ash/Kaidan would tell you to ****** off after seeing you working with Cerberus, even though they've seen firsthand what they're up against, and how great a leader Shepard was for them. Again this is all contextual, meta-gaming argument, se we'll just have to see. Hope this isn't coming across as harsh or overly pessimistic.

EDIT: btw I agree York, that that is what she should do, if it the story progresses logically.

Modifié par 7Makaveli, 24 avril 2010 - 04:30 .


#4752
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests

yorkj86 wrote...
This validates the aforementioned retcon, but also creates another curiosity.   If there is no genetic transfer between the "father" species to the daughter, just what the heck is the prejudice against Purebloods about?    It can't be about genes.  It has to be about the Asari daughter not having a non-Asari father to impress upon her the values of his species.  It then follows that there should be a stigma against Asari splitting up, especially with non-Asari, since nothing would be gained by the "father"  leaving if "he"  isn't around to be the "father".

I was under the impression the prejudice over the Purebloods was over several reasons.

1) Possible birth of an Ardat Yakshi
2) Perhaps similar stigma to human inbreeding
3) The potential for it to weaken the genetic viability of the species (don't ask me how), which I suppose would be tied into the second one,

Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 24 avril 2010 - 04:35 .


#4753
7Makaveli

7Makaveli
  • Members
  • 1 410 messages
I wonder if cross-breeding is an Asari away to make the A-Y gene obsolete. This could be a genetic battle that Asari have been on since their dawn, attempting to completely eradicate the gene from their system. And with each generation and more opportunities for cross-breeding they've gotten to this point where its extremely unlikely, but still lingering. Perhaps?

#4754
Guest_yorkj86_*

Guest_yorkj86_*
  • Guests

JohnnyDollar wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...
This validates the aforementioned retcon, but also creates another curiosity.   If there is no genetic transfer between the "father" species to the daughter, just what the heck is the prejudice against Purebloods about?    It can't be about genes.  It has to be about the Asari daughter not having a non-Asari father to impress upon her the values of his species.  It then follows that there should be a stigma against Asari splitting up, especially with non-Asari, since nothing would be gained by the "father"  leaving if "he"  isn't around to be the "father".

I was under the impression the prejudice over the Purebloods was over several reasons.

1) Possible birth of an Ardat Yakshi
2) Perhaps similar stigma to human inbreeding
3) The potential for it to weaken the genetic viability of the species (don't ask me how), which I suppose would be tied into the second one,


1) This is a possibility, but it was a retcon for ME2.  Ardat-Yakshi didn't exist in ME1.
2) Asari breeding with Asari is no more inbreeding than it is a human breeding with a human.  The Asari had to have survived their own evolutionary history using their own genepool.  Bioware made such a mess by having Mordin state that humans tend to be more genetically diverse than aliens.  It makes it seem like non-humans are about as genetically diverse as Virginian hillpeople, especially when what he says is taken in to account with other examples of alien genetics in ME2.  Lastly, this was practically retconned out of validity in ME2.
3) This is addressed by my initial argument.  Bioware has put its foot in its mouth by retconning Asari genetics in ME2, and by telling us practically nothing about Asari genetics in the first place.

#4755
Flamewielder

Flamewielder
  • Members
  • 1 475 messages

Lotus72 wrote...
Been following this thread for just a month. So my apologies in case the following was
discussed already. Replaying/probing some of the alternative cut scenes with
her here are my thoughts about her reappearance in ME3:

No apologies required. Most newcomers wouldn't bother reading through a bunch of old threads anyway.Image IPB
 

If Sheps answer at the last conversation goes along the ‘glad-we’re-friends’ route, her
answer is ‘call upon me for aid anytime after this.  I will come for you’.

Indeed

I think Bioware used Kasumi’s voice to indicate quite clearly that they do NOT plan to
have her as a LI in ME3 – Kasumis statement was actually quite strong in case
you went the attempted LI path. Kasumi was also used in other instances to
voice Bioware’s opinions (in my view). So this does not bode well for
those hoping for a ME3 or romance pack LI … :?

But the character may still return even without being an actual LI (in the usual sense, anyway). That would depend on a players interpretation of what is a LI. There's a couple of discussion well worth the read on this topic.

In any case - and despite Bioware’s statements that ME always being planned as trilogy - (Matrix trilogy come to mind as mentioned in other threads): I think they made ME much more of a stand-alone RPG. If it wouldn’t have been as successful as it was, the story would have ended right there.

A reasonable approach for a new, starting franchise. We can argue that, at this time, the ME franchise is a winning proposition who's commercial success is pretty much garranteed. Bioware would have to REALLY screw-up to lose money on ME3. Somehow I don't think they will...

ME2 and ME3 seem to be parts of the same story albeit with different focus. ME2 being the ‘build team’ part, ME3 focusing on the actual mission. So also from that point of view I see options having all surviving team members re-appear in ME3 - and not just as cameos.

There are good arguments either way, but I share your interpretation. I think ME3 is going to be designed as a standalone game for new players but can still bring the ME2 team back. Arguments based on the cost of voice acting are not strong enough: the canon team for ME3 can include everyone for new players, most ME2 players will have at least one playthrough with the No One Left Behind achievement. Characters will be re-introduced with slightly different cutscenes for imported characters (à la Horizon/Tuchanka), with only a couple of extra sequences (like Ashley/Kaidan's hug and reference of Illos) being required to change the "feel" of the scene. It actually makes a Samara romance easier to build up in ME3, as there is none to start with.

BTW - and pure speculation: my impression was also that Samara’s role could have been an attempt at catering more towards ‘older’ players. Why? Her role is very recognisable by those playing traditional/old-style RPGs (lawful neutral (FW:good, if you played in AD&D in the early 90's) Pallies etc.). Her story could make her somewhat believable for those who’ve progressed a bit further in life - and perhaps experienced similar situations. Of course without the killing bit in the end :huh:. Similar to Thane btw.  
And I know quite a few age 40 + players who got very interested in the father-son /mother-daughter backgrounds of those 2. At the same time those folks totally dismissed someone like Tali as ‘kiddie stuff’ or ‘immature’.

Mmm... Being a 45-year old father, I can say I sympathize with these characters but I think players in their 20's can like them too. We may see them differently, however. For example, I've never seen Tali as an LI, because I have this image in my mind of a kid sister to Shepard (like Imoen, in BG). She comes off as way too young... heck I have stepdaughters her age! Image IPB So I love the character, just not in a romantic perspective.

#4756
Guest_yorkj86_*

Guest_yorkj86_*
  • Guests

7Makaveli wrote...

I wonder if cross-breeding is an Asari away to make the A-Y gene obsolete. This could be a genetic battle that Asari have been on since their dawn, attempting to completely eradicate the gene from their system. And with each generation and more opportunities for cross-breeding they've gotten to this point where its extremely unlikely, but still lingering. Perhaps?


But Bioware won't give us details!  It makes it seem like the Asari don't know how their genetics work.  Cross-breeding would only function as a shot in the dark.  Considering what we do know, that the Asari only use DNA to randomize the DNA of the daughter, and that apparently nothing is passed on, genetically, what use is it to flood the genepool with new traits?  Genetic diversity does reduce the chance of some dangerous recessive allele being expressed, but that's apparently not how the Asari work.

#4757
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests

Lotus72 wrote...
On a negative note …
I think Bioware used Kasumi’s voice to indicate quite clearly that they do NOT plan to
have her as a LI in ME3 – Kasumis statement was actually quite strong in case
you went the attempted LI path. Kasumi was also used in other instances to
voice Bioware’s opinions (in my view). So this does not bode well for
those hoping for a ME3 or romance pack LI …    :?

You know I got this vibe from several members and I am not sure just yet what to think of it.  I  am just not sure if Bioware is actually sending messages or not.  I think we may be buying a little too much into this, but I could wrong.  There are also little bits of info thrown in the Cerberus daily news, so I  don't know.

Lotus72 wrote...
BTW - and pure speculation: my impression was also that Samara’s role could have been an attempt at catering more towards ‘older’ players. Why? Her role is very recognisable by those playing
traditional/old-style RPGs (lawful neutral Pallies etc.). Her story could make
her somewhat believable for those who’ve progressed a bit further in life - and
perhaps experienced similar situations. Of course without the killing bit in
the end :huh:. Similar to Thane btw.  

And I know quite a few age 40 + players who got very interested in the father-son /
mother-daughter backgrounds of those 2. At the same time those folks totally dismissed someone like
Tali as ‘kiddie stuff’ or ‘immature’. Probably will get roasted for this …

The characters provide an excellent comparison contrast to different forum members and their thoughts about the LI's and the characters.  I don't think that it is mere coincidence that the 2 deepest characters in the game IMO (Jack & Samara), have more indepth thorough discussion in there threads with less spam than the other character threads.  

Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 24 avril 2010 - 05:20 .


#4758
7Makaveli

7Makaveli
  • Members
  • 1 410 messages
There was a good point in Lotus' post about Samara and Thane being more oriented to mature gamers (not necesserily aged). I remember one time I went to talk to both of them after a mission and came out very impressed and endeared to both of them. Thane a little bit less than Samara, but I did appreciate the depth they tried to instill in to him. I got both their loyalty quests at the same time, and immediately went to do them. And both were non-combative too so it was an interesting experience for me doing them back to back, getting a refreshing experience from the game. Kudos to bioware for taking a non-traditional approach to these character's makeup and loyalty missions (there's something that doesn't happen too much; praising bioware lol)

#4759
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests

7Makaveli wrote...
I wonder if cross-breeding is an Asari away to make the A-Y gene obsolete. This could be a genetic battle that Asari have been on since their dawn, attempting to completely eradicate the gene from their system. And with each generation and more opportunities for cross-breeding they've gotten to this point where its extremely unlikely, but still lingering. Perhaps?

Man no telling.  We try to dig into Asari genetics, gender,  and reproduction and we eventually either come up empty or spewing out a bunch of BS.:o

#4760
7Makaveli

7Makaveli
  • Members
  • 1 410 messages

JohnnyDollar wrote...

7Makaveli wrote...
I wonder if cross-breeding is an Asari away to make the A-Y gene obsolete. This could be a genetic battle that Asari have been on since their dawn, attempting to completely eradicate the gene from their system. And with each generation and more opportunities for cross-breeding they've gotten to this point where its extremely unlikely, but still lingering. Perhaps?

Man no telling.  We try to dig into Asari genetics, gender,  and reproduction and we eventually either come up empty or spewing out a bunch of BS.:o


exactly lol, all we really know is that put their own gene pool with anyone elses in a blender and hope it blends.

#4761
LiquidGrape

LiquidGrape
  • Members
  • 2 942 messages

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Lotus72 wrote...
On a negative note …
I think Bioware used Kasumi’s voice to indicate quite clearly that they do NOT plan to have her as a LI in ME3 – Kasumis statement was actually quite strong in case you went the attempted LI path. Kasumi was also used in other instances to voice Bioware’s opinions (in my view). So this does not bode well for those hoping for a ME3 or romance pack LI …    :?


You know I got this vibe from several members and I am not sure just yet what to think of it.  I  am just not sure if Bioware is actually sending messages or not.  I think we may be buying a little too much into this, but I could wrong.  There are also little bits of info thrown in the Cerberus daily news, so I  don't know.


Kasumi is the one person in the universe who wants Jacob.
I believe that is proof enough of her complete lack of credibility.

#4762
NICKjnp

NICKjnp
  • Members
  • 5 048 messages

7Makaveli wrote...

There was a good point in Lotus' post about Samara and Thane being more oriented to mature gamers (not necesserily aged). I remember one time I went to talk to both of them after a mission and came out very impressed and endeared to both of them. Thane a little bit less than Samara, but I did appreciate the depth they tried to instill in to him. I got both their loyalty quests at the same time, and immediately went to do them. And both were non-combative too so it was an interesting experience for me doing them back to back, getting a refreshing experience from the game. Kudos to bioware for taking a non-traditional approach to these character's makeup and loyalty missions (there's something that doesn't happen too much; praising bioware lol)


Yeah as someone who is in their early 30's I can tell you that I enjoy the older characters in the game.  I even enjoy Miranda from time to time.  I don't really understand the Tali romance because, from someone who is Shepard's age, dating someone who is 24 (who somehow aged 6 or 7 years in just 2 years time) just seems like robbing the cradle.  Especially when you look at it as Tali was going through her right of adulthood type thing when Shepard first meets her.

As for Samara and Thane I really enjoyed those characters.  It seems as though things they would say were thought out rather than blurted out.  I especially enjoyed Samara's dialogue on the derelict reaper (if you bring Garrus, Tali or Jacob).

#4763
NICKjnp

NICKjnp
  • Members
  • 5 048 messages

LiquidGrape wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Lotus72 wrote...
On a negative note …
I think Bioware used Kasumi’s voice to indicate quite clearly that they do NOT plan to have her as a LI in ME3 – Kasumis statement was actually quite strong in case you went the attempted LI path. Kasumi was also used in other instances to voice Bioware’s opinions (in my view). So this does not bode well for those hoping for a ME3 or romance pack LI …    :?


You know I got this vibe from several members and I am not sure just yet what to think of it.  I  am just not sure if Bioware is actually sending messages or not.  I think we may be buying a little too much into this, but I could wrong.  There are also little bits of info thrown in the Cerberus daily news, so I  don't know.


Kasumi is the one person in the universe who wants Jacob.
I believe that is proof enough of her complete lack of credibility.


He just hasn't tried the Priiiize line on her yet.

#4764
BlackMetal

BlackMetal
  • Members
  • 666 messages

7Makaveli wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

7Makaveli wrote...
I wonder if cross-breeding is an Asari away to make the A-Y gene obsolete. This could be a genetic battle that Asari have been on since their dawn, attempting to completely eradicate the gene from their system. And with each generation and more opportunities for cross-breeding they've gotten to this point where its extremely unlikely, but still lingering. Perhaps?

Man no telling.  We try to dig into Asari genetics, gender,  and reproduction and we eventually either come up empty or spewing out a bunch of BS.:o


exactly lol, all we really know is that put their own gene pool with anyone elses in a blender and hope it blends.


I really hope ME 3 has a ton of Codex entires on topics like this so we can base more of our theories on facts instead of hypothetical Bull****.Image IPB

#4765
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests

LiquidGrape wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Lotus72 wrote...
On a negative note …
I think Bioware used Kasumi’s voice to indicate quite clearly that they do NOT plan to have her as a LI in ME3 – Kasumis statement was actually quite strong in case you went the attempted LI path. Kasumi was also used in other instances to voice Bioware’s opinions (in my view). So this does not bode well for those hoping for a ME3 or romance pack LI …    :?

You know I got this vibe from several members and I am not sure just yet what to think of it.  I  am just not sure if Bioware is actually sending messages or not.  I think we may be buying a little too much into this, but I could wrong.  There are also little bits of info thrown in the Cerberus daily news, so I  don't know.

Kasumi is the one person in the universe who wants Jacob.
I believe that is proof enough of her complete lack of credibility.

:P
I have heard about this, but don't know the details.  What does she say about him?  Do you remember?

#4766
LiquidGrape

LiquidGrape
  • Members
  • 2 942 messages
Listen for yourself...

#4767
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests

NICKjnp wrote...
 I especially enjoyed Samara's dialogue on the derelict reaper (if you bring Garrus, Tali or Jacob).

What does she say?

#4768
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests

BlackMetal wrote...

7Makaveli wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

7Makaveli wrote...
I wonder if cross-breeding is an Asari away to make the A-Y gene obsolete. This could be a genetic battle that Asari have been on since their dawn, attempting to completely eradicate the gene from their system. And with each generation and more opportunities for cross-breeding they've gotten to this point where its extremely unlikely, but still lingering. Perhaps?

Man no telling.  We try to dig into Asari genetics, gender,  and reproduction and we eventually either come up empty or spewing out a bunch of BS.:o

exactly lol, all we really know is that put their own gene pool with anyone elses in a blender and hope it blends.

I really hope ME 3 has a ton of Codex entires on topics like this so we can base more of our theories on facts instead of hypothetical Bull****.Image IPB

It would be nice, but don't count on it.:D

#4769
NICKjnp

NICKjnp
  • Members
  • 5 048 messages

JohnnyDollar wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...
 I especially enjoyed Samara's dialogue on the derelict reaper (if you bring Garrus, Tali or Jacob).

What does she say?


With Garrus, Tali and Jacob there is a interactable area where you see the husk creation spike just after fighting the first Scion.  After the initial conversation you have the option of ending the conversation with the usual paragon, neutral, renegade speach.  If you choose the Paragon speach she commends you for your choice of words.  I think she is the only one who has that option (untested so not certain)  Also... I just enjoy her dialogue on the Derelict Reaper.

#4770
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests

LiquidGrape wrote...

Listen for yourself...

Thanks for the link LG.

#4771
Lotus72

Lotus72
  • Members
  • 22 messages
Another observation from the 'older community':  There were quite a few who initially got this game because of it's changed approach: less RPG (as in ME1), more of lighter-type-shooter game (aka ME2).

Interestingly enough though: after having played thru for the 1st time that attitude completely changed into becoming almost exclusively interested in dialogues and character interaction.  And most of those were actually sparked by the afore mentioned characters: Samara, Thane, the Asari bartender (forgot the name) etc. With tons of discussions on  universe context etc. Just something I would have never expected to happen - especially as most of those folks are heavily embedded in RL duties .

So I guess Bioware managed to trigger something ...

#4772
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*

Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
  • Guests

NICKjnp wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

Lotus72 wrote...
On a negative note …
I think Bioware used Kasumi’s voice to indicate quite clearly that they do NOT plan to have her as a LI in ME3 – Kasumis statement was actually quite strong in case you went the attempted LI path. Kasumi was also used in other instances to voice Bioware’s opinions (in my view). So this does not bode well for those hoping for a ME3 or romance pack LI …    :?

You know I got this vibe from several members and I am not sure just yet what to think of it.  I  am just not sure if Bioware is actually sending messages or not.  I think we may be buying a little too much into this, but I could wrong.  There are also little bits of info thrown in the Cerberus daily news, so I  don't know.

Kasumi is the one person in the universe who wants Jacob.
I believe that is proof enough of her complete lack of credibility.

He just hasn't tried the Priiiize line on her yet.

That motivational of the character creator and "Priize Shepard" that Blasto uploaded in Ashira's thread cracked me up.

#4773
NICKjnp

NICKjnp
  • Members
  • 5 048 messages
@JD... go back and read the face code on that. It will make you laugh even more.

#4774
BlackMetal

BlackMetal
  • Members
  • 666 messages

NICKjnp wrote...

JohnnyDollar wrote...

NICKjnp wrote...
 I especially enjoyed Samara's dialogue on the derelict reaper (if you bring Garrus, Tali or Jacob).

What does she say?


With Garrus, Tali and Jacob there is a interactable area where you see the husk creation spike just after fighting the first Scion.  After the initial conversation you have the option of ending the conversation with the usual paragon, neutral, renegade speach.  If you choose the Paragon speach she commends you for your choice of words.  I think she is the only one who has that option (untested so not certain)  Also... I just enjoy her dialogue on the Derelict Reaper.


Awesome i'll be sure to do that when i start up my next playthrough.

I'll probably be done with Oblivion be Monday and start up my 7th ME 2 playthrough after a month break, it's gonna be awesome i still haven't Done Kasumi, firewalker and an other DLC released during the last month im excited!Image IPB

#4775
7Makaveli

7Makaveli
  • Members
  • 1 410 messages
lol saw this in the motivational thread, courtesy of LiquidGrape

Image IPB

ridiculous, in a "queen of the ball" type of way ;)

Modifié par 7Makaveli, 24 avril 2010 - 05:50 .