13634 réponses à ce sujet

[7Makaveli]

what's the word ya'll?

yorkj86 wrote...
sadistic God-complex.

 I see the topic is still religion


uhm, I think it was Flamewielder that said it, that since the story of ME2 will link towards ME3 through DLC (supposedly), what would that mean for the characters? I dunno how I feel about that, I'll have to see how they incorporate it. Hopefully its not something like; you'll have to pay to keep squadmates in the next game. If so, that would be awkward. They need to keep DLC away from the characters. If their eventual plan is to phase some of them out, then they atleast deserve a cameo.

EDIT: on the other hand, I do see the promise it offers in developing some of the characters further. Perhaps an origin playthrough because some of these characters have become a phenomenon of their own. I would love to play a Samara origin story, another one I'd be interested in is Jack's.

Modifié par 7Makaveli, 24 mai 2010 - 01:30 .

[Pacifien]

yorkj86 wrote...
I don't really understand the fascination with making sure certain character die. I just assume it's for roleplaying reasons, and not to satisfy some sadistic God-complex.

I do it for science.

And my sadistic God-complex.

[Pacifien]

Yeah, I tried to watch that but realized it was never going to be RedLetterMedia no matter how hard it tried, so I gave up.

I'm not saying ME2 is beyond critical analysis, and I could probably throw a few punches in the game's armor as well. I just think if you're going to mimic someone else's style, mimic it well.

[Pacifien]

It's the presentation in particular I don't like specifically because that's what tries to mimic RedLetterMedia's reviews of The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones and fails.

[Pacifien]

This is why I keep telling people I don't really care what Bioware wants to do with the characters so long as their role in the story is natural and provides for a stronger story. To reign us back on topic, I think I mentioned that when we were talking about what role Samara could have in ME3.

Unfortunately, I don't have anything new to offer on my original comments about Samara being in ME3. I can see her entrance being epic, with Shepard being pinned down when suddenly biotic badassery occurs, the enemies are dead, and Samara simply states "I told you I would come for you."

[Pacifien]

yorkj86 wrote...
I also like the way he pointed out that many of the characters have almost no reason to follow Shepard on the suicide mission. It made me revisit my thoughts about whether or not the Third Oath of Subsumation was a convenient plot-device to give Samara any reason at all to help Shepard.

Thing is, they had a perfect reason for Samara to want to help Shepard because she mentions a previous encounter with the Collectors back in her mercenary days. Unfortunately, the developers also had to work in some sort of loyalty mission for her that interferes with whatever reason she could have to go against the Collectors.

If they wanted to keep Morinth in the story, rather than have Samara send Shepard to finish her investigation into Morinth's whereabouts, it should have been the Illusive Man who sent Shepard to get the information, then use it as a bargaining chip to get Samara to join their cause. Or have Morinth be the reason Samara may have joined the Justicars, but have it be a trail that had gone cold, one that Samara had to put aside centuries ago -- thus Morinth isn't even in the picture when Samara agrees to fight against the Collectors, but she can come into the picture during the course of Samara's travels with Shepard.

I mean, the Illusive Man put together a crew of humans who either had a personal stake in the lives of the colonists (listening to the talk of Ferris Fields, New Canton, the woman who was stationed on Horizon) or were particularly loyal to Shepard (Joker, Chakwas, Ken Donnelly). I think it would have made sense that the team Shepard put together also have a personal experience with the Collectors, were particularly loyal to Shepard, or were mad geniuses.

[7Makaveli]

yorkj86 wrote...

Well, as I said above, considering what smudboy said in the video about the characters having little reason to join Shepard on his mission, do we think that the Third Oath was a convenient plot-device to keep Samara on the roster?

If you mean keep her on the roster beyond ME2, then Im not sure, but if you're talking initially about getting her to join you thenI've been harping on that all along. I don't see the basis in it, and they even had Anaya say "I never thought I'd see a Justicar swear an oath like that". I mean, to swear an oath like that, something that commands her whole life and she gives it to you on a silver platter, makes me have to suspend belief for a bit. I don't doubt that its a reasonable plot device in and of itself, but I think I said earlier that I would have liked it if they made her swear that oath after her loyalty, to give it the significance it deserves. Anyhow, I think someone came along and said that while the Oath is merely to get her to follow you, the loyalty is something more, and gives access to Samara the person. That's the last we spoke on this matter I believe.

[7Makaveli]

Pacifien wrote...

 Or have Morinth be the reason Samara may have joined the Justicars, but have it be a trail that had gone cold, one that Samara had to put aside centuries ago -- thus Morinth isn't even in the picture when Samara agrees to fight against the Collectors, but she can come into the picture during the course of Samara's travels with Shepard.

That would seem even more contrived no? I guess they wanted to put the situation in a way that shows that Samara is going about her business, and she does have important things to do. Things that are kind of more important than the usual things Justicars would do. Besides it would have been harder to bring Morinth into the conversation because Shepard would have no starting point for it. Atleast this way he's aware that there is someone she is after.

[Pacifien]

I don't know why they bothered mentioning her brief run-in with the Collectors, as it gives no further insight into why she joined with Shepard. It seems to exist simply to reinforce the idea that the Collectors have been taking people for a very long time.



As for my various scenarios on how to better integrate the story of Morinth, that's simply me trying to figure out how to work in both Samara's loyalty mission and a better reason for her to join Shepard. As it is, Morinth is the reason and the loyalty mission. She is the reason why Samara is a Justicar. How does someone like that even come under the Illusive Man's radar? Why a Justicar and not some military trained asari commando? What about being a Justicar puts Samara at the top of a list of people to join a very specialized and dangerous mission?



I'm starting to think Samara accidentally decimated a Cerberus operation at one point, and the Illusive Man was looking for revenge. What better way than convincing her to be used on a suicide mission.



No, I don't really think that.

[7Makaveli]

Pacifien wrote...
 How does someone like that even come under the Illusive Man's radar? Why a Justicar and not some military trained asari commando? What about being a Justicar puts Samara at the top of a list of people to join a very specialized and dangerous mission?

Illusive man has probably done his research on the probability of Justicars leaving Asari space, and not allowing this opportunity to pass. I would assume its because Asari commando's are probably a dime a dozen for him to choose from. Justicars have the respect of their entire race, and intimidate other races. He also most likely aware of the escaped Ardat Yakshi, which he thought Shepard might be able to use as some form of leverage if he assisted Samara in taking her down. I don't think if he has that much foresight but he clearly seems to be ahead of the game.

Modifié par 7Makaveli, 24 mai 2010 - 04:11 .

[Pacifien]

I'm not convinced a Justicar beats the best of asari commandos. Also, not sure if other races know enough about Justicars to even be intimidated. I mean, Pitne For was pretty intimidated, but that's because every asari was telling him a Justicar would kill a criminal without a second thought, and he was a criminal. The Code also seems rather limiting, you'd have to depend on her use of the Third Oath to ensure the mission came before the Code, and that's a pretty huge gamble that you could get her to swear such an oath.

Recruiting a Justicar like Samara just doesn't make sense to me, unless we had learned that Samara has had dealings with the Collectors in the past and her knowledge could be useful. Or if we learned that Samara specifically has biotics that put even the best asari biotics to shame. Given her motives, she could have been any asari with a desire to test themselves against the Collectors. The fact she's a Justicar just gave her extra flavor, but an unnecessary one in relation to the main story.

Of course, I'd argue the characters you recruit are really the main story of Mass Effect 2. The Illusive Man pretty much tells Shepard that building the team is all that's required of him while the Illusive Man works on the other details about the Collectors. Hmm, I could even call the Illusive Man the protagonist of the story about the Collectors with Shepard just being one of his many tools working toward a conclusion. Shepard's story is how he got the team. Not as impressive as chasing down a mad Spectre intent on bringing about his master's doom upon the galaxy.

[Pacifien]

JohnnyDollar wrote...
The characters being the main story is not good enough.  As you said, TIM may as well be the protagonist in ME2.

Based on the interviews with the developers as ME2 was in development, I think they intended the characters to always be the main story. A mistake, I think. I'll try to refrain from my "story before characters" rant. If I refrain enough, I'll stockpile a nice pile of frustration that will then explode onto the forum at large and I will make enemies of every single poster of the character support threads.

It will be glorious.

[NICKjnp]

JohnnyDollar wrote...

yorkj86 wrote...

I don't really understand the fascination with making sure certain character die. I just assume it's for roleplaying reasons, and not to satisfy some sadistic God-complex.

I imagine it's mostly for role playing, and just something to do with the game.  It adds a little replayability to the game I suppose by trying out different scenarios.  Some people actually hate some of these characters, and kill them off to remove them from the trilogy.

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