Mmyeah, I think I'll crawl off now...it's getting too bright and loud outside.
Samara thread
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#7627
Posté 28 mai 2010 - 05:23
Flamewielder
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AshiraShepard wrote...
17 years old. But my sleeping pattern is nocturnal in the first place. My "morning" is usually the entire UK's "Good Night."
I have a stepdaughter just like that... except it's not the creative urge that's keeping her up: she's an avid MMO player. Finished a paragade playthrough with enough paragon points to keep everyone loyal but decided to keep the Collector base... the squaddies' reactions where quite unnerving. I played a female Ruthless Colonial Engineer, pro-human but without the Cerberus xenophobia (i.e. not anti-alien, just lookin' out for humies first). Stayed loyal to Kaidan, spared Wrex in ME1, spared the Rachni Queen but let the Council be vaporized.
I was surprised by the sense of foreboding I felt after talking to everyone: Mira(my femshep) should have felt satisfied that this was the best decision (a ruthless military officer doesn't normally second-guess herself) but Samara's observation (and those of the others) really threw a spanner in Mira's normally cristal clear sense of purpose. Really awsome work by the writers on this. It was a totally different feeling from my paragon "main" maleshep (Eric) and "paragon-with-attitude" femshep (Lorna), who both blew up the base and "stuck it to the (illusive) man".
I'm really curious about the "lead-in" DLC Bioware is planning. I'm not expecting a lot of mission-specific squaddie dialogue, although I suppose it's possible I could be surprised. What I like about it is that C.Hudson seems to suggest they will be DLC's designed to be played "after" the conclusion of the mission (chronologically at least). This suggests a return of past squaddies is considered for ME3, as opposed to discounted outright.
#7628
Posté 28 mai 2010 - 05:36
Pacifien
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Depending on who you take with you to the final battle, some of your squadmates tell you to consider keeping the Collector base. Later on, these squadmates express reservation that you kept the base because now it's in the hands of the Illusive Man. Like in the heat of the moment, they saw opportunity in being able to research the tech on the base, but then after they had a chance to think about it, they realized just who was going to be doing the research.
I would have liked one or two of them to say keeping the base was still a good choice even while voicing concerns over what the Illusive Man planned to do with it. Mordin especially struck me as one who would consider keeping the base too much of an opportunity to get hung up over the fact Cerberus had it. Well, at least while the Reaper threat was still an issue.
I would have liked one or two of them to say keeping the base was still a good choice even while voicing concerns over what the Illusive Man planned to do with it. Mordin especially struck me as one who would consider keeping the base too much of an opportunity to get hung up over the fact Cerberus had it. Well, at least while the Reaper threat was still an issue.
#7629
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 28 mai 2010 - 05:51
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Yeah I didn't like how Bioware did that. I think they had the different squadmates stating their opinion that you should keep the base as a way to make you further contemplate the decision as the player. To then turn around and have that squadmate, or squadmates for muilitple playthroughs reverse themselves, cheapens the game to me. It is like Bioware wants to coax you into possibly saving the Base (similar to the coucil decision) to make the decsion a worthy one, and then later saying "you made the wrong decision" after you save it by the same characters suddenly changing their mind.Pacifien wrote...
Depending on who you take with you to the final battle, some of your squadmates tell you to consider keeping the Collector base. Later on, these squadmates express reservation that you kept the base because now it's in the hands of the Illusive Man. Like in the heat of the moment, they saw opportunity in being able to research the tech on the base, but then after they had a chance to think about it, they realized just who was going to be doing the research.
I would have liked one or two of them to say keeping the base was still a good choice even while voicing concerns over what the Illusive Man planned to do with it. Mordin especially struck me as one who would consider keeping the base too much of an opportunity to get hung up over the fact Cerberus had it. Well, at least while the Reaper threat was still an issue.
Perhaps this is the case because of the NG+ capability that was added to the game. Wheras you can complete the suicide mission, but still continue to play. From what I understand, they did not orignally intend on having the NG+ feature.
#7630
Posté 28 mai 2010 - 05:59
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You know, it's going to take a while for any true advantage to come from researching that base. I wonder how much farther along the path ME3 will be. Just another couple of years? Half a decade?
#7631
Posté 28 mai 2010 - 06:03
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25,000 years. It's a long trip from the depths of dark space. Shepard and company have transferred their consciousness to quantum blue box androids in preparation for the day.kelmar6821 wrote...
You know, it's going to take a while for any true advantage to come from researching that base. I wonder how much farther along the path ME3 will be. Just another couple of years? Half a decade?
#7632
Posté 28 mai 2010 - 06:34
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I hope scale itch doesn't transfer to a digital virus...
#7633
Posté 28 mai 2010 - 10:12
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JohnnyDollar wrote...
Yeah I didn't like how Bioware did that. I think they had the different squadmates stating their opinion that you should keep the base as a way to make you further contemplate the decision as the player. To then turn around and have that squadmate, or squadmates for muilitple playthroughs reverse themselves, cheapens the game to me. It is like Bioware wants to coax you into possibly saving the Base (similar to the coucil decision) to make the decsion a worthy one, and then later saying "you made the wrong decision" after you save it by the same characters suddenly changing their mind.Pacifien wrote...
Depending on who you take with you to the final battle, some of your squadmates tell you to consider keeping the Collector base. Later on, these squadmates express reservation that you kept the base because now it's in the hands of the Illusive Man. Like in the heat of the moment, they saw opportunity in being able to research the tech on the base, but then after they had a chance to think about it, they realized just who was going to be doing the research.
I would have liked one or two of them to say keeping the base was still a good choice even while voicing concerns over what the Illusive Man planned to do with it. Mordin especially struck me as one who would consider keeping the base too much of an opportunity to get hung up over the fact Cerberus had it. Well, at least while the Reaper threat was still an issue.
Perhaps this is the case because of the NG+ capability that was added to the game. Wheras you can complete the suicide mission, but still continue to play. From what I understand, they did not orignally intend on having the NG+ feature.
At lest in ME 1 your squadmates stood behind their decisions. If Shepard was with Ashley and another character other than Wrex when Shepard saves the Rachni Queen she says how she thought it was mistake when Shepard ask her opinion about it on the Normandy. If Shepard was with Ashley and Wrex when Shepard saves the Rachni Queen she says how it was the correct call to let her go.
#7634
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 01:12
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Well, TGIF to everyone! Samara told me that she enjoyed reading about our discussion concerning Asari genetics. She told me to tell the Samartians to not try too hard to figure it out.
Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 29 mai 2010 - 01:17 .
#7635
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 01:28
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Samara is my bro, my broseidon, my brosephine, my broheim, my brocahontas...any more?
#7636
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 01:40
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I have this image of Samara fans in their suits and dark sunglasses telling the world in a monotone "We're on a mission from the Justicars." 
#7637
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 01:48
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Pacifien wrote...
I have this image of Samara fans in their suits and dark sunglasses telling the world in a monotone "We're on a mission from the Justicars."
Shepard: "It's 106 lightyears to Omega, we got a full tank of eezo, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses."
Samara: "Hit it."
Modifié par yorkj86, 29 mai 2010 - 01:48 .
#7638
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 01:48
Kudara
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Asari Genetics and the full expression of the AY trait resulting in fatal melding at maturity
I'm going to take a stab at this.
Ok first lets set down a few facts. First we know that 1% of the Asari population show some degree
of AY traits. Second we know that the full expression of the AY trait is said to show up in the children of pureblood Asaris.
Hypothesis: AY genetics are not classic dominant resessive genetics but more like the genetics that govern hair color and eye color.
Therefore let us go over the latest theories of how you end up with blue or brown eyes in humans. Sorry for the long read below
From: http://www.thetech.o...s/ask.php?id=29
What we are taught in high school biology is generally true, brown eye
genes are dominant over green eye genes which are both dominant over
blue eye genes. However, because many genes are required to make each
of the yellow and black pigments, there is a way called genetic
compensation to get brown or green eyes from blue-eyed parents.
Genetic Complementation
The best way to illustrate how this might happen is with an example.
Let's say there is a genetic pathway made up of four genes (cleverly
named A, B, C, and D) that are needed to make brown eyes. A mutation in
both copies of any one of these genes results in blue eyes (these
mutations are denoted with lower case letters, a, b, c, and d).
Now let's say that dad has blue eyes because of a mutation in both his
copies of gene A and mom because of a mutation in both her copies of
gene D. As I am sure you know, we have two copies of each gene, one
from our mom and one from our dad. If either parent gives you a brown
version of a gene, it will be dominant over the blue copy.
Let's suppose that mom gives you a brown copy of gene A and dad gives
you a brown copy of gene D. What color eyes would you have? Brown.
(The same argument works for green eyes as well.)
Another common genetic process that could be responsible for brown eyes
from blue-eyed parents is called recombination. When eggs and sperm
are made, only one of a pair of chromosomes gets put into an egg or
sperm. Before this happens, there is a bunch of DNA swapping that goes
on between the pair of chromosomes. Sometimes when the DNA is swapped
or recombined, DNA mutations get fixed.
Recombination
Again, an example can show how this might work. Imagine dad has blue
eyes because of a mutation at the front end of one copy of his eye color
gene and a different mutation at the back end of the other copy of the
gene. Each gene has a single mutation but at different places in the
gene (see Figure 2).
Now imagine that when his sperm is being made, the middle part of the
eye color gene is switched between the two genes resulting in one brown
eye gene and one blue eye gene with two mutations. Now dad can produce a
brown-eyed child. (Again, the same argument works for a green eye gene
as well.)
Back to the AY explanation:
Ok when you're talking about genetics remember that what genes are actually are blueprints for how to make things like protiens and such. So lets say you have a location in a chromosone and if you have gene A
then the protien that is produced contributes to the person being an AY, if you have gene a then the protien is just slightly different enough that you meld in what is considered a normal manner.
In this case we are specifically saying that the protien produced that causes the AY
expression is both a mutation from the normal gene and that is is dominant over the normal gene.
So lets start with our hypothetical Asari mother. She carries some of the genetics for the AY.
A a A a a A
Now when she decides to have a child she actually provides both copies of the chromosone and then randomized the second copy with information from the "father" If the father is not asari then
there is no chance they will carry any AY genetics.
So we have: A a A a a A & a a a a a A (the randomization overwrote some of the A
genes witih good copies of the a gene) and the child is - A a A a a A
the same as the mother since the trait is dominant. Not great but not any worse off either.
Now the same asari decides to have a child with another asari. Unfortunately they both belong to the 1% of asari
that carry some of the AY genetics.
The mother is again - A a A a a A and the asari who is the father is - a A a A A A
Again both copies of the gene come from the mother and are randomized with the
father's genetics only this time
A a A a a A + A A A A A a = A A A A A A ../../../../images/forum/emoticons/surprised.png
This is the only way I can see it working, Nick or Makavli if you can figure out a way for it to work and be recessive and still manage to fully express itself I'd like to see it. I do think that the genetics of the AY would have to involve multiple genes in different areas of the chromosone though.
Edit: trying to work out the formatting
I'm going to take a stab at this.
Ok first lets set down a few facts. First we know that 1% of the Asari population show some degree
of AY traits. Second we know that the full expression of the AY trait is said to show up in the children of pureblood Asaris.
Hypothesis: AY genetics are not classic dominant resessive genetics but more like the genetics that govern hair color and eye color.
Therefore let us go over the latest theories of how you end up with blue or brown eyes in humans. Sorry for the long read below
From: http://www.thetech.o...s/ask.php?id=29
What we are taught in high school biology is generally true, brown eye
genes are dominant over green eye genes which are both dominant over
blue eye genes. However, because many genes are required to make each
of the yellow and black pigments, there is a way called genetic
compensation to get brown or green eyes from blue-eyed parents.
Genetic Complementation
The best way to illustrate how this might happen is with an example.
Let's say there is a genetic pathway made up of four genes (cleverly
named A, B, C, and D) that are needed to make brown eyes. A mutation in
both copies of any one of these genes results in blue eyes (these
mutations are denoted with lower case letters, a, b, c, and d).
Now let's say that dad has blue eyes because of a mutation in both his
copies of gene A and mom because of a mutation in both her copies of
gene D. As I am sure you know, we have two copies of each gene, one
from our mom and one from our dad. If either parent gives you a brown
version of a gene, it will be dominant over the blue copy.
Let's suppose that mom gives you a brown copy of gene A and dad gives
you a brown copy of gene D. What color eyes would you have? Brown.
(The same argument works for green eyes as well.)
Another common genetic process that could be responsible for brown eyes
from blue-eyed parents is called recombination. When eggs and sperm
are made, only one of a pair of chromosomes gets put into an egg or
sperm. Before this happens, there is a bunch of DNA swapping that goes
on between the pair of chromosomes. Sometimes when the DNA is swapped
or recombined, DNA mutations get fixed.
Recombination
Again, an example can show how this might work. Imagine dad has blue
eyes because of a mutation at the front end of one copy of his eye color
gene and a different mutation at the back end of the other copy of the
gene. Each gene has a single mutation but at different places in the
gene (see Figure 2).
Now imagine that when his sperm is being made, the middle part of the
eye color gene is switched between the two genes resulting in one brown
eye gene and one blue eye gene with two mutations. Now dad can produce a
brown-eyed child. (Again, the same argument works for a green eye gene
as well.)
Back to the AY explanation:
Ok when you're talking about genetics remember that what genes are actually are blueprints for how to make things like protiens and such. So lets say you have a location in a chromosone and if you have gene A
then the protien that is produced contributes to the person being an AY, if you have gene a then the protien is just slightly different enough that you meld in what is considered a normal manner.
In this case we are specifically saying that the protien produced that causes the AY
expression is both a mutation from the normal gene and that is is dominant over the normal gene.
So lets start with our hypothetical Asari mother. She carries some of the genetics for the AY.
A a A a a A
Now when she decides to have a child she actually provides both copies of the chromosone and then randomized the second copy with information from the "father" If the father is not asari then
there is no chance they will carry any AY genetics.
So we have: A a A a a A & a a a a a A (the randomization overwrote some of the A
genes witih good copies of the a gene) and the child is - A a A a a A
the same as the mother since the trait is dominant. Not great but not any worse off either.
Now the same asari decides to have a child with another asari. Unfortunately they both belong to the 1% of asari
that carry some of the AY genetics.
The mother is again - A a A a a A and the asari who is the father is - a A a A A A
Again both copies of the gene come from the mother and are randomized with the
father's genetics only this time
A a A a a A + A A A A A a = A A A A A A ../../../../images/forum/emoticons/surprised.png
This is the only way I can see it working, Nick or Makavli if you can figure out a way for it to work and be recessive and still manage to fully express itself I'd like to see it. I do think that the genetics of the AY would have to involve multiple genes in different areas of the chromosone though.
Edit: trying to work out the formatting
Modifié par Kudara, 29 mai 2010 - 02:00 .
#7639
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 01:49
7Makaveli
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Whats the haps in Samara land?!? =D
I had a topic to discuss but yesterday was so crazy I forgot about it. It was concerning Samara's first encounter with us. I thought it would have made more sense if the merc she kills wasn't an Asari, but of any other species. Bear with me here. Say she kills a salarian, turian, or even human. Doesn't it give detective anaya more justification for taking her in, seeing that its a cross species incident? Then Samara would be probably even more impressed that Shepard is willing to help her, which would make her giving the Third Oath so readily even more sense. Doesn't that make more sense?
Sense?
I had a topic to discuss but yesterday was so crazy I forgot about it. It was concerning Samara's first encounter with us. I thought it would have made more sense if the merc she kills wasn't an Asari, but of any other species. Bear with me here. Say she kills a salarian, turian, or even human. Doesn't it give detective anaya more justification for taking her in, seeing that its a cross species incident? Then Samara would be probably even more impressed that Shepard is willing to help her, which would make her giving the Third Oath so readily even more sense. Doesn't that make more sense?
Sense?
#7640
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 01:53
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Lots of formatting issues there, Kudara.
#7641
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 01:55
Guest_yorkj86_*
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7Makaveli wrote...
Whats the haps in Samara land?!? =D
I had a topic to discuss but yesterday was so crazy I forgot about it. It was concerning Samara's first encounter with us. I thought it would have made more sense if the merc she kills wasn't an Asari, but of any other species. Bear with me here. Say she kills a salarian, turian, or even human. Doesn't it give detective anaya more justification for taking her in, seeing that its a cross species incident? Then Samara would be probably even more impressed that Shepard is willing to help her, which would make her giving the Third Oath so readily even more sense. Doesn't that make more sense?
Sense?
Yeah, you're probably right. The Asari merc doesn't even fight back with her biotics. That's just another reason why she could have been switched out for a non-Asari. I guess Bioware just had the merc as an Asari because Asari are the most populous species on Illium.
#7642
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 01:55
7Makaveli
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Kudara wrote...
*snip genetics lecture*
Ow, my brain
Ugh, and to think I'll be studying genetics for a looong time coming.
Modifié par 7Makaveli, 29 mai 2010 - 01:57 .
#7643
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 01:59
Pacifien
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I'm going to go with Kudara here on the AY trait being a dominant gene. Also, while an asari randomizes part of her own DNA based on the father's DNA, I doubt this a conscious process on her part. She could have a gene that is in the AY spectrum and something about the melding with the father alters the gene to fall completely in the AY spectrum.
Why purebloods only? Something about melding with an alien species randomizes the gene to diverge further from the AY spectrum. It could also be that the AY trait was much more prevalent when the asari only melded with each other, and they've noticed a significant decline since they've started to meld with other species.
This could work with the contradiction between the Codex and Samara's words. Back when the asari predominantly melded with other asari, the percentage of those in the AY spectrum was at 1%. It's been over two millennia since they've been melding with other species and the percentage of the AY carriers has fallen such that Samara's daughters are the only known Ardat-Yakshi in existence. As if the more the asari continue to meld with alien species, the more likely they will breed the AY trait out of their gene pool.
Why purebloods only? Something about melding with an alien species randomizes the gene to diverge further from the AY spectrum. It could also be that the AY trait was much more prevalent when the asari only melded with each other, and they've noticed a significant decline since they've started to meld with other species.
This could work with the contradiction between the Codex and Samara's words. Back when the asari predominantly melded with other asari, the percentage of those in the AY spectrum was at 1%. It's been over two millennia since they've been melding with other species and the percentage of the AY carriers has fallen such that Samara's daughters are the only known Ardat-Yakshi in existence. As if the more the asari continue to meld with alien species, the more likely they will breed the AY trait out of their gene pool.
#7644
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 02:02
Pacifien
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Agreed it makes more sense for Samara to have killed a non-asari so that her problems with the police become more evident. However, I don't think hearing her say "find peace in the embrace of the Goddess" would have had as much impact on a salarian as it did with an asari.
I don't have the game to check, she didn't tell Morinth anything before she killed her, did she?
I don't have the game to check, she didn't tell Morinth anything before she killed her, did she?
#7645
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 02:03
Kudara
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I tried working it out with it being recessive but couldn't see how it would express itself correctly. It works if its a dominant mutation though.
#7646
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 02:03
AKFTF
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Wow, Kudara. I applaud your efforts into trying to make sense of asari genetics. You brought up interesting points. I'll have to reread it a few times to let it sink in.
#7647
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 02:04
Kudara
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Pacifien wrote...
Agreed it makes more sense for Samara to have killed a non-asari so that her problems with the police become more evident. However, I don't think hearing her say "find peace in the embrace of the Goddess" would have had as much impact on a salarian as it did with an asari.
I don't have the game to check, she didn't tell Morinth anything before she killed her, did she?
Yes I think she tells her the same thing.
#7648
Guest_yorkj86_*
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 02:04
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Dominant gene? Doesn't that effect its prevalence in the general Asari gene-pool? How could the Asari have managed to remain a viable species before they met alien species?
Either way, I think some liberties are being taken by Kudara in assuming that Asari genetics work a similar fashion to genetics among species on Earth.
Lastly, maybe it just isn't supposed to make sense, and Bioware never intended for the players to scrutinize a fictional process among a fictional species in a science-fiction game.
Either way, I think some liberties are being taken by Kudara in assuming that Asari genetics work a similar fashion to genetics among species on Earth.
Lastly, maybe it just isn't supposed to make sense, and Bioware never intended for the players to scrutinize a fictional process among a fictional species in a science-fiction game.
Modifié par yorkj86, 29 mai 2010 - 02:05 .
#7649
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 02:10
Kudara
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yorkj86 wrote...
Dominant gene? Doesn't that effect its prevalence in the general Asari gene-pool? How could the Asari have managed to remain a viable species before they met alien species?
Either way, I think some liberties are being taken by Kudara in assuming that Asari genetics work a similar fashion to genetics among species on Earth.
Lastly, maybe it just isn't supposed to make sense, and Bioware never intended for the players to scrutinize a fictional process among a fictional species in a science-fiction game.
Oh I'd definately have to agree that bioware never intended us to work this out.
I doubt the mutation was ever that prevalent and of course once you get your AY they never have children thus taking themselves out of the genetic pool.
If it's not like human genetics (which already isn't due to the whole meld and randomize idea) then we might as well forget about even discussing it :happy:
#7650
Guest_JohnnyDollar_*
Posté 29 mai 2010 - 02:14
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I still liked reading your post though Kudara. Even though it is hard for us to get anywhere with this, it's still fascinates me a little.Kudara wrote...
yorkj86 wrote...
Dominant gene? Doesn't that effect its prevalence in the general Asari gene-pool? How could the Asari have managed to remain a viable species before they met alien species?
Either way, I think some liberties are being taken by Kudara in assuming that Asari genetics work a similar fashion to genetics among species on Earth.
Lastly, maybe it just isn't supposed to make sense, and Bioware never intended for the players to scrutinize a fictional process among a fictional species in a science-fiction game.
Oh I'd definately have to agree that bioware never intended us to work this out.
I doubt the mutation was ever that prevalent and of course once you get your AY they never have children thus taking themselves out of the genetic pool.
If it's not like human genetics (which already isn't due to the whole meld and randomize idea) then we might as well forget about even discussing it :happy:
Modifié par JohnnyDollar, 29 mai 2010 - 02:15 .
